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Microsoft, HP introduce touchscreen 'slate PC' at CES - Page 3

post #81 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

You don't sound amused. We don't even know if Apple is even going to intro a Tablet this month. HP has been making a Tablet PC and the TouchSmart line for years now. This isn't some shocking news they decided to intro another Tablet.

Funny if OSX is so great why is Apple currently working on "stability issues". So much for it just works righ the first time, something we all know is BS.

At least MS doesn't have to give away their OS for 29.00.

You have never seen this Tablet you have never used it because its not on the market yet, you don't have a clue about Windows 7 and you are always talking out your ass about products you don't use. Get a clue.

People like you are the reason everyone thinks Apple users are assholes.

are you really pissed the courier did not come out? it's people like you that make people think you are some bitter asshole. passive-aggressive much?

we will see what happens on the 26th, when it does you will be eating crow again...oh wait that is what a humble person would do. You clearly are not.

So you will come back and defend this bloated OS tablet when/if Apple produces theirs'? And once again proves they can redefine a market, or create one from the graveyard of pretenders?
post #82 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

You don't sound amused. We don't even know if Apple is even going to intro a Tablet this month. HP has been making a Tablet PC and the TouchSmart line for years now. This isn't some shocking news they decided to intro another Tablet.

Funny if OSX is so great why is Apple currently working on "stability issues". So much for it just works righ the first time, something we all know is BS.

At least MS doesn't have to give away their OS for 29.00.

You have never seen this Tablet you have never used it because its not on the market yet, you don't have a clue about Windows 7 and you are always talking out your ass about products you don't use. Get a clue.

People like you are the reason everyone thinks Apple users are assholes.

extreme - deep breath... now relax. Sheesh dude - this was techstudlyesque to the max. You can''t possibly be arguing that routine updates to the OS are examples of a categorical fail are you? No OS enjoys that perk sonny. And yes indeedy PC mfg have been making tablets for years - and it is a very niche market. Even Jobsie commented on it's niche-ness some time ago. But perhaps, just perhaps, like the iPod and the iPhone, they have come up with an approach to the tablet platform that will garner the same level of consumer interest that has driven their other products to the interest level they have.

Your arguments smack of the very anger (and a certain lack of logic) that you've accused others of. If you are going to go there it makes more sense to make logical, rational and dispassionate points, not this arrant silliness about the OSX pricepoint, no clue about Windows 7 and ass-talking. Look t those comments for a minute - can you really not see how adolescent they appear?
post #83 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I love Apple Products as much as next guy on this forum, but...

Let's talk about the hypocracy about this forum's reaction to this HP device. Now, it may not be an apple product, but it's everything you've been dreaming of in the iSlate/MacPad; but, it is using a MS OS. I can assure you that you fanboys/girls out there would be singing a very differnet song if this was what Apple unveiled.

Sadly, i don't see this new Apple iSlate being anything like this. I've been reading the forums regarding the Apple tablet for about 2 years now. Everyone has thier wish lists out there, and the general consensus is that most of the fanboys/girls want a MBP but in tablet form. Again, i don't see that happening with the new product, but we'll see.

Granted, Windows has a bad UI and track record...i get that.

I just wanted to call all of you people out for crapping on a product that is everything you want, except for the OS. I can't wait to hear the fanboy/girl reaction to the new Apple tablet when it doesn't have OSX on it...the wining and all that.

for shame!

The new Apple tablet most definitely won't have Mac OS X SL on it, just like the iPhone didn't. It borrowed technologies from it for sure, but it was designed and tailored to the specific functions and form factor of the device. It was not just stuck on like the Slate PC OS is. You're missing the point that the GUI is far more important than the hardware, since it is responsible for the interaction, ease of use, and therefore productivity/enjoyment that the device potentially can give. No hardware keyboard means that you need a whole new method of data input. The Slate PC appears to lack that. Or at least has not been redesigned with that in mind
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post #84 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

But not by anyone with any power. I suspect Ballmer thought it was a good not-so-subtle dig at Apple. Instead, it just brought Apple to people's attention. If Apple doesn't announce a slate at the end of January, they will look bad. But if they do and it has some REAL innovation - like a deforming screen - then MS's thunder will be quite stolen.

Who knows? Maybe Ballmer is not that bright. Whoever made the script said they needed to display a book popular with young, hip, people and Twilight was chosen with no thought to the fact that the cover prominently displays an APPLE!!! Ballmer's company's products have shown he has no sense of aesthetics. Maybe he missed the significance.

I also wouldn't put it past Steve J. to put some sort of "retaliation" in whatever is announced on the 27th. I can easily picture him watching Ballmer's keynote, seeing the Apple, and jumping up shouting a stream of expletives. And immediately turning his attention on how to get back at Ballmer. Nerd CEO fight!

- Jasen.

I can see it now --

Steve is demonstrating the new Apple touchPad by reading from the Twilight book and wonders out loud, what videos might be associated with the book, switches to surfing YouTube with a finger flick, finds and plays Ballmer's keynote on the new device, then downloads it directly into "iTunes Extras" for the Twilight book, plays it in a shared window within the book reading app, and then decides he's seen enough and deletes the video. Easy, integrated, and powerful functionality.
post #85 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

extreme - deep breath... now relax. Sheesh dude - this was techstudlyesque to the max. You can''t possibly be arguing that routine updates to the OS are examples of a categorical fail are you? No OS enjoys that perk sonny. And yes indeedy PC mfg have been making tablets for years - and it is a very niche market. Even Jobsie commented on it's niche-ness some time ago. But perhaps, just perhaps, like the iPod and the iPhone, they have come up with an approach to the tablet platform that will garner the same level of consumer interest that has driven their other products to the interest level they have.

Well said. The tablet talk reminds me of the run-up to the iPhone. Apple bashers were pretty sure that there was nothing that Apple could bring to the table, because RIM and WinMo and Nokia already had that covered with their super awesome powerful devices.

Even after the release of Apple's handset, they didn't get it. They compared spec lists and laughed. They talked about the phones that they had had for years that "could do all that, and more." We all remember, right? "Oh look, a phone with a browser, welcome to 2001."

And then of course as every other manufacturer started to shift their smart phone design towards Apple's template, the same people promptly forgot all that and started acting as if such design was simply right and normal and had been going on for ages, and Apple was being eclipsed because of screen resolution or processor speed or, well, back to spec whoring.

I don't know if Apple's take on the tablet will be hugely successful, but I can confidently predict that if it is, its UI and hardware conventions will be promptly adopted by the rest of the industry, at which point Apple bashers will once again forget that they ever championed the prior generation of Windows based failures, and become extremely preoccupied with specs. Apple's contributions to the state of the art will be dismissed as "marketing", with whatever new stuff that becomes industry standard held to be "obvious."

Maybe we should have a contest: what "obvious" things will Apple do with their tablet to make it more useful that what Ballmer just showed from HP? Since whatever they do will clearly be simply repackaging stuff for the sheeple, it should be pretty easy to predict. Any one?
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post #86 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

They never announced the courier. A presentation of the concept was leaked. I don't think a product can be vaporware without an announcement. We know that Microsoft has thought about concepts like the courier, but they have never promised or even suggested that it will ever hit the market.

My take: A Microsoft project leaked in its early stages of development to gauge consumer support for such a device, but not vaporware.

Well ... point taken, but I would argue that an intentional leak form MS is the same as an official announcement in terms of the effect it has on the market and the competition.
post #87 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

History will show this for what it is... a desperate move by a floundering company.
It is almost as if they want to be accused of copying Apple.

Even less than that...the so-called "Slate" is ABSOLUTELY irrelevant in face of Apple's upcoming device, and will be more than forgotten in no time.

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post #88 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

The new Apple tablet most definitely won't have Mac OS X SL on it, just like the iPhone didn't. It borrowed technologies from it for sure, but it was designed and tailored to the specific functions and form factor of the device. It was not just stuck on like the Slate PC OS is. You're missing the point that the GUI is far more important than the hardware, since it is responsible for the interaction, ease of use, and therefore productivity/enjoyment that the device potentially can give. No hardware keyboard means that you need a whole new method of data input. The Slate PC appears to lack that. Or at least has not been redesigned with that in mind

I'm not missing your point, that wasn't the point that i was making. Given all the reading on the AI forums ive done on this yet-to-be-seen tablet, there has been a predominant amount of people BASICALLY stating that they won't like this new Apple tablet unless it was a Tablet MBP. Go back and read all the posts from this summer. People wining and complaining that they won't buy it if it doesn't have OSX.

Now HP has produced just that, and Archos before that, and so on...and people whine and moan about how crap it is. The point i'm trying to make, is that the fanboys/girls out there seem to just dog anything NOT Apple, even if it's a strong competitor, which is very hypocritical, and biased. Granted, i don't think this HP/MS slate will be a hit, but i NEVER thought an Apple Tablet with OSX would ever be a hit. In fact, it would be a huge mistake to do that, IMO.
post #89 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

History will show this for what it is... a desperate move by a floundering company.
It is almost as if they want to be accused of copying Apple.

An 88% + market share is hardly the sign of a floundering company.
post #90 of 227
Yes, because we all need and want a tablet, right?

years ago when Apple didn't have one, everyone thought it was a stupid idea. Or to quote Steve Jobs "What good is it, besides surfing the web in the bathroom?"

But slap an apple logo on it and every hipster wanna-be in the world has to over-pay for one. News flash; my father (a non-tech) was using a tablet 5 years about with a built-in cellular connection. I guarantee that Apple's product will do far less than that ancient device could do. Then again, it didn't have a fart app.

For me, I'll use my own tablet with the built in keyboard and screen-protective clamshell design. It's called a laptop!
post #91 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I'm not missing your point, that wasn't the point that i was making. Given all the reading on the AI forums ive done on this yet-to-be-seen tablet, there has been a predominant amount of people BASICALLY stating that they won't like this new Apple tablet unless it was a Tablet MBP. Go back and read all the posts from this summer. People wining and complaining that they won't buy it if it doesn't have OSX.

Now HP has produced just that, and Archos before that, and so on...and people whine and moan about how crap it is. The point i'm trying to make, is that the fanboys/girls out there seem to just dog anything NOT Apple, even if it's a strong competitor, which is very hypocritical, and biased. Granted, i don't think this HP/MS slate will be a hit, but i NEVER thought an Apple Tablet with OSX would ever be a hit. In fact, it would be a huge mistake to do that, IMO.

This only makes sense if you insist that "fanboys" and "people who think that an Apple slate must run OS X" are somehow identical. They are clearly not-- there are plenty of Apple enthusiasts (myself among them) that have insisted all along that Apple would (and should) make a device with a UI tailored for the hardware at hand. There are just as many others who point out that "OS X" is an ambiguous term which can support all kinds of iterations, as well as those who are mainly interested in being able to run existing OS X apps on a new device, even if only awkwardly.

Just declaring that all the Apple fans have been clamoring for a keyboardless MacBook Pro and therefor "fanboys" are now exposed as hypocrites is a real stretch.
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post #92 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

Does anyone know how or where I can watch this impressive keynote?

I have a PPC Mac and you need the latest cruddy Silverlight plugin to watch it on their site, but it won't install on a PPC.

It doesn't seem to be available on Youtube either.

don't bother. it's an hour+ of cringe-worthy awkward moments, lame dialogue, poorly rehearsed delivery and weak attempts at serendipitous discovery. it SUKT! i'll youtube it if you want.

i loved when they're so proud at how they spent hours trying to show how they could make an anatomy presentation in minutes that they felt looked like they spent hours doing, and presented it at the biggest industry conference giving such a poor performance that it seemed like they spent minutes preparing for it!

"and .... so .... then .... well .... <nervous laughter>" just gawdawful.
post #93 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

This only makes sense if you insist that "fanboys" and "people who think that an Apple slate must run OS X" are somehow identical. They are clearly not-- there are plenty of Apple enthusiasts (myself among them) that have insisted all along that Apple would (and should) make a device with a UI tailored for the hardware at hand. There are just as many others who point out that "OS X" is an ambiguous term which can support all kinds of iterations, as well as those who are mainly interested in being able to run existing OS X apps on a new device, even if only awkwardly.

Just declaring that all the Apple fans have been clamoring for a keyboardless MacBook Pro and therefor "fanboys" are now exposed as hypocrites is a real stretch.

symantics...really
post #94 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm not pissed about anything. I plan to buy an Apple tablet if/when it comes out. Nothing has been defined or even created at this point.


Thank you for proving my point. To paraphrase you: "I don't know exactly what the product is, what it'll do, or how much it costs, but I'll buy it because it has an apple logo on it."
post #95 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Well said. The tablet talk reminds me of the run-up to the iPhone. Apple bashers were pretty sure that there was nothing that Apple could bring to the table, because RIM and WinMo and Nokia already had that covered with their super awesome powerful devices.

Remember when they showed off the iPhone and everyone was saying how stupid keyboardless was and how finger prints render it useless? And now those same folks are drooling over keyboardless touch phones?

Everything you said is exactly what I keep saying to people. But it is in one ear and out the other.
post #96 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefyre View Post

Remember when they showed off the iPhone and everyone was saying how stupid keyboardless was and how finger prints render it useless? And now those same folks are drooling over keyboardless touch phones?

Everything you said is exactly what I keep saying to people. But it is in one ear and out the other.

The same conversations took place about the iPod, too.
post #97 of 227
A couple of observations.
  1. Is it just me or did Steve Ballmer look like he was very uncomfortable introducing this product? It's almost as if he knew it wasn't ready, but felt like they had to preempt Apple's event later this month.
  2. I also found it interesting that in the three minute video clip I saw that there was absolutely no applause for anything he said or showed.
  3. Wouldn't it be interesting if Apple's registering of iSlate was a red herring approach to get competition to start using the term slate and when they do announce their device they call it something completely different?

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post #98 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

Apple = Company that has spent years, nay, decades funneling money and resources into a secret slate project with a perfectionist mind set, unwilling to release any information regarding the mystery product until it's absolutely perfect.

Microsoft = Company that reads rumors that Apple will release a mysterious slate device some time next year. Puts less time, and less resources into their product, steals the name of Apple's product, and jumps out of the gates early, displaying a shoddy prototype in apparent hope to steal Apple's thunder, or make the claim that "theirs was first."

Steve Jobs = Turtle Neck

Steve Ballmer = Turtle Head

exactly! I bet this is what has been happening for years now!
post #99 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The same conversations took place about the iPod, too.

True. But to be fair, even the Apple faithful were confused on the merits of the iPod at the time. It wasn't until the iTunes store really kicked into gear that it took off. And that really shows that Apple gets what the consumer wants. Integration and user experience, not feature lists.
post #100 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

Why does that ad remind me of a nutsack and an upside down vagina?

You're referring to Ballmer's expression, right?
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post #101 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Seriously? Who wrote the article? The cover is of a book that is selling well that many people can identify. I highly doubt its any sort of sub-liminal message about how MS wishes they were Apple (come on MS, grow up, do your own thing!) Its not even the correct Apple anyways. Macintosh Apples (as in the actual food) typically have a more round shape, and aren't as deep of red. They are delicious however.

I think its groping for straws to point that out.

Anyhow, I'd love to see Apple at this point NOT release a "Slate" PC. Just to show other companies the "You all just chase us" mentality they have.

Everyone (including Apple since they do copy on a few things too) needs to stop chasing the other dogs tail, and forge their own path! Tons of creative minds out there, make use of them. All computers (Mac, Windows, Linux) do the same things in the same way... break the mold. If I had the talent and patience, I'd program it myself, but I can't.

I don't think the point is that there is some sort of subliminal Apple desire going on - rather - in a highly anticipated, much publicized and (hopefully) carefully crafted product launch, you think one of the pointed heads at MS would pipe up and say - "hey, regardless of our intentions, plopping a big picture of an apple of any sort on our new product is going to get us killed in the blogosphere, doncha think?"

Seriously - dumb, sloppy, rookie mistake. Too bad these guys aren't rookies.
post #102 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSux View Post

Thank you for proving my point. To paraphrase you: "I don't know exactly what the product is, what it'll do, or how much it costs, but I'll buy it because it has an apple logo on it."

Yes - an apple logo that pretty much guarantees a quality product - innovative, useful and beautiful - that will rank above all other competitors in terms of customer satisfaction; a product that I will use every day and will terrifically useful.

Anything wrong with that? Simply put, when a company has a track record of hitting home runs every time out because it spends years and years on careful, thoughtful and innovative development, it's a safe bet to say - yeah, I'll wait for theirs rather than buy the competition's knock-off.

Apple fans are Apple fans because of the products - the "image" is not even a secondary consideration.
post #103 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

But in terms of attitude, philosophy, and progressive thinking, they've been on a slide since 83 or 84.

Corrected.

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post #104 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefyre View Post

True. But to be fair, even the Apple faithful were confused on the merits of the iPod at the time. It wasn't until the iTunes store really kicked into gear that it took off. And that really shows that Apple gets what the consumer wants. Integration and user experience, not feature lists.

In a way, we need Apple to tell us what we want. It might seem strange and an insult to our own human intellect and agency in the matter, but it would appear that when it comes to tech, Apple has answers that can't be readily seen by others. And most of the time Apple is right, in a big way. But I don't see why having faith im them means I'm giving up any of my own free will. I choose to give Apple the benefit of the doubt and ackowledge their reputation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rollerborges View Post

Yes - an apple logo that pretty much guarantees a quality product - innovative, useful and beautiful - that will rank above all other competitors in terms of customer satisfaction; a product that I will use every day and will terrifically useful.

Anything wrong with that? Simply put, when a company has a track record of hitting home runs every time out because it spends years and years on careful, thoughtful and innovative development, it's a safe bet to say - yeah, I'll wait for theirs rather than buy the competition's knock-off.

Apple fans are Apple fans because of the products - the "image" is not even a secondary consideration.

Very well stated.
post #105 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSux View Post

I guarantee that Apple's product will do far less than that ancient device could do.

Cool. What do we get when your guarantee fails?
post #106 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

not like Bill Gates didn't demo a tablet back in 2001

Quote:
Originally Posted by greekmango View Post

So what happened?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

A whole lotta nothing.

And that right there highlights the different between MS and Apple. MS announces products without a clue what people would do with it. They put out a half-baked idea and wait to see if someone comes up with a use for it.

Apple keeps their ideas in their secret labs and actually puts some thought into how and why it would be used. And before they ever make it public, they refine it over and over again until they not only have a new product, but a reason why people would want to use it. Only then will the public ever see it.

It would be interesting to see all the products Apple has kept secret because they didn't think they were good enough. And I'd bet that dozens, or even hundreds, of them are far better than a lot of the stuff MS and other companies announced to the public in a hopeless attempt that someone will find a use for them.
post #107 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The iPod and iPhone are totally different situations. The iPod was an innovative product. The iPhone filled a need that has been there for a long time. This is not the case with a Tablet.

Many companies have created a Tablet and to date they are still only 2-4% of the entire market.

Can Apple change that, maybe but we have no clue what the product has to offer. So maybe we shouldn't bash something less before we see the Apple Tablet. I could be nothing more then a larger version of an iPod Touch with a modified UI.

If it has a modified version of SL on it then it might be something great, if not in my opinion it will end up going the way of Apple TV. A failed project.

For what it's worth, excellent response! We are in substantial agreement on your tablet point. iPod itself was not terribly innovative - which is clearly shown in it's slow uptake during the first years. It was the later combination of iPod + iTunes that began the sharper climb in popularity - that is, the platform and environment that Apple created to make the iPod so very consumer friendly - and therefore market-leading in popularity. iPhone was the application of that early iPod lesson - Apple released the hardware first and shortly after the SDK and the App Store. Again the combination driven by platform and the environment created drove its popularity as well. Both devices addressed what Apple perceived as significant lacks in the existing market, remedied them and drove marketshare with it. This is remarkably similar to the tablet market, with the one caveat that the tablet market is part of the more general personal computing market, not a distinct market unto itself.

Now as to the bashing a product before Apple produces theirs, I agree as far as the purported elements of the Apple device are rumored only, so comparison is a little silly IMHO. However, a product can still be judged on it's own merits and called lacking or poor without the necessary comparison - yes? Most of the initial reviews I've seen on the Windows 7 touch interface have been mixed, and I have a general disdain for the whole tablet concept - so combining those two elemts together gives me the ability to deliver a responding MEH for the CES keynote by Mr. Ballmer - who showed us products which he described as new and wildly innovative, but really were not.
post #108 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The iPod and iPhone are totally different situations. The iPod was an innovative product. The iPhone filled a need that has been there for a long time. This is not the case with a Tablet.

Many companies have created a Tablet and to date they are still only 2-4% of the entire market.

Can Apple change that, maybe but we have no clue what the product has to offer. So maybe we shouldn't bash something less before we see the Apple Tablet. I could be nothing more then a larger version of an iPod Touch with a modified UI.

If it has a modified version of SL on it then it might be something great, if not in my opinion it will end up going the way of Apple TV. A failed project.

People said the same thing before Apple the iPod and the iPhone "There are many X products and everyone tried everything". You can replace "X" with mp3 players, smartphones, or the tablets. Can you see the pattern here?

I think everyone is laughing at MS is because MS showed nothing new. Unless you consider a tablet running Windows 7 an innovation.
post #109 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I could not agree more. Ballmer's Keynote was absurd and sad in every respect.

I think Apple should offer Ballmer's keynote as a free download on iTunes.
post #110 of 227
Wait a second, are the windows fanboys on here still defending Ballmer and his inefficiencies? Courier has been proven to be vaporware. There is nothing M$ will ever have to offer that will be on any level close to the innovation Apple. Do we need to remind the world, that before iPhone, smartphones were all clunky, horrible devices! now look at everyone trying to copy the original iPhone and still cant get it right.

That keynote by Ballmer was embarrassing, and don't bring up 95% windows market share, thats like saying mcdonalds has 95% market share of fast food franchise, but eat that crap for more than a month and you're liable to die from poison. Quantity does not equal Quality, when will that ever sink in? You windows morons got duped by that idiot Ballmer, and the nerve of him to snag up the Slate moniker, how pathetic is that? were they not referred to as Tablet PC's for years now? all of a sudden they're Slates?

You windows fanboys should feel violated by this company, but what do I expect from people that put up with virus scanners/malware protection software to run on their computers just so they can surf the web and read email. If there were no Apple company, I would be using Linux, like I currently do, there is no choice or advantage in me using microsoft products now or ever. Have fun windows fanboys, when Ballmer tries to copy/paste Apples product after its released.
post #111 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

For what it's worth, excellent response! We are in substantial agreement on your tablet point. iPod itself was not terribly innovative - which is clearly shown in it's slow uptake during the first years. It was the later combination of iPod + iTunes that began the sharper climb in popularity - that is, the platform and environment that Apple created to make the iPod so very consumer friendly - and therefore market-leading in popularity. iPhone was the application of that early iPod lesson - Apple released the hardware first and shortly after the SDK and the App Store. Again the combination driven by platform and the environment created drove its popularity as well. Both devices addressed what Apple perceived as significant lacks in the existing market, remedied them and drove marketshare with it. This is remarkably similar to the tablet market, with the one caveat that the tablet market is part of the more general personal computing market, not a distinct market unto itself.

That is the key. I doubt Apple is just going to release a laptop replacement. Whatever it is, I imagine it is going to integrate with the rest of the Apple digital lifestyle in some way and that is what will make it sell. That is where the other slates/tablets fail. They are just laptop replacements so the use of them is confusing to the market.
post #112 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSux View Post

Yes, because we all need and want a tablet, right?

years ago when Apple didn't have one, everyone thought it was a stupid idea. Or to quote Steve Jobs "What good is it, besides surfing the web in the bathroom?"

But slap an apple logo on it and every hipster wanna-be in the world has to over-pay for one. News flash; my father (a non-tech) was using a tablet 5 years about with a built-in cellular connection. I guarantee that Apple's product will do far less than that ancient device could do. Then again, it didn't have a fart app.

For me, I'll use my own tablet with the built in keyboard and screen-protective clamshell design. It's called a laptop!

Years ago when Apple didn't have an mp3 player, or cellphone/mobile internet device, etc. And yes Jobsie did say that tableting was a niche market - that quote is established. And that wasn't a newsflash - it was an historical reference - we all get it - the tablet concept (like touch screens as well) has been around awhile. Yep No argument there. Now, let me invite you to put your money where your fingers are - backup your guarantee with something substantial. I think I am fairly safe in dismissing that guarantee out of hand - a 5 year old device is lower on the technology performance tree than most of what is produced today - so we already have a partial fail. And really. Fart app reference - what is this adolescent preoccupation with bodily functions. Nice. Flogging silliness.

Finally, you are of course very welcome to continue to embrace your aging technology platform as a closet Luddite. no one desire to disabuse you of your predeliction for the comfort of your 20th century tech - but at least bring something reasonably substantial to your comments in the way of facts or informed opinion. Or not. Your choice, just sayin'.
post #113 of 227
I cannot believe that HP and the other companies agreed to let Ballmer preview their products with nothing more to say than "window 7 is good"

He demonstrated the HP slate computer by holding it up for a few seconds and putting it down, showing nothing of its capabilities, interface, i/o ports, battery life, etc...what a joke!

MSFT is starting to look like the GM of the '70's and '80's. No innovation, products that appealed to previous generations, and always bragging about their market share dominance that slowly eroded over time.
post #114 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsad23 View Post

I cannot believe that HP and the other companies agreed to let Ballmer preview their products with nothing more to say than "window 7 is good"

He demonstrated the HP slate computer by holding it up for a few seconds and putting it down, showing nothing of its capabilities, interface, i/o ports, battery life, etc...what a joke!

MSFT is starting to look like the GM of the '70's and '80's. No innovation, products that appealed to previous generations, and always bragging about their market share dominance that slowly eroded over time.


MS has no focus. Like a fat old cat its ass spills into both the enterprise and the consumer sector, thinking ideas from one end just carry over the same way into the other end. It's sloppy and an insult to the Average User. The problem is (and always was), that Microsoft is just a corporate/enterprise software vendor masquerading as a home/consumer vendor. And it really shows. They don't get the consumer. They don't put any taste, imagination or originality into their products. They assume everyone is an IT manager or hardcore gamer, and speaks to them that way.

They react to eveything and react too late. The slow and predictable works quite well in the enterprise, but is a recipe for (depending on how much money you have to throw at problems) a slow and steady decline in the consumer sector. It's no accident that Apple has been the darling of the tech industry for years now, and MS hasn't. Apple gets the attention, the praise, the monopoly on compliments . . . because they've actually made an effort to earn it.
post #115 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefyre View Post

That is the key. I doubt Apple is just going to release a laptop replacement. Whatever it is, I imagine it is going to integrate with the rest of the Apple digital lifestyle in some way and that is what will make it sell. That is where the other slates/tablets fail. They are just laptop replacements so the use of them is confusing to the market.

Agreed, what few if any analysts are doing right now is trying to parse out what products are part of a convergence in Apple's future development. The focus tends to be on the product itself - not where Apple is taking the consumer. But that is precisely what Apple is doing - first with the Mac, then the iPod, the iPhone and now - whatever it is that is next in line.

You see the same sort of convergence being discussed by Microsoft house devs as well. Except, Microsoft tends to focus first on marketshare and proprietary ownership, which may be their Achilles heel in all of this. The personal computing market is effectively saturated in the US. This is the primary reason why Microsoft is bleeding marketshare. Once saturation hits, the market driver is differentiation.

This is also why Dell and HP and Acer and everyone else making hardware were so successful earlier and now you see their market segments flattening out too. This is why netbooks were able to become popular - differentiation. The problem was that they are inexpensive and therefore a very low profitability. It is possible to look around the consumer marketplace and watch for telltails of where consumer interest is going to be, but a good company will drive market interest with compelling products. Apple has demonstrated they can do that with their previous products.
post #116 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

Agreed, what few if any analysts are doing right now is trying to parse out what products are part of a convergence in Apple's future development. The focus tends to be on the product itself - not where Apple is taking the consumer. But that is precisely what Apple is doing - first with the Mac, then the iPod, the iPhone and now - whatever it is that is next in line.

You see the same sort of convergence being discussed by Microsoft house devs as well. Except, Microsoft tends to focus first on marketshare and proprietary ownership, which may be their Achilles heel in all of this. The personal computing market is effectively saturated in the US. This is the primary reason why Microsoft is bleeding marketshare. Once saturation hits, the market driver is differentiation.

This is also why Dell and HP and Acer and everyone else making hardware were so successful earlier and now you see their market segments flattening out too. This is why netbooks were able to become popular - differentiation. The problem was that they are inexpensive and therefore a very low profitability. It is possible to look around the consumer marketplace and watch for telltails of where consumer interest is going to be, but a good company will drive market interest with compelling products. Apple has demonstrated they can do that with their previous products.

I agree with what you are saying, but one caveat. I don't think netbooks became popular because of 'differentiation' (is that word? ). I think they are popular because they are cheap, not because they do anything different. Back to what I said about slates and tablet, the netbook is just a laptop miniaturized with a low price point. Everyone I know who has bought one has bought it to use as a cheap device to check email and view websites, not to fill any specific need beyond a laptop.
post #117 of 227
If it runs windows, I don't want it. If I get a blue screen of death on the tablet, what the hell am I gonna do? Call HP in india, so that a guy I can't understand tells me that my warranty does not cover the OS, and redirects me to Microsoft in india. Where another guy tells me that its $35 to open a case and $135 to get the problem fixed in store. Forget it.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
post #118 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm perfectly calm. Unlike many here I don't have an emotional reaction to inanimate objects. I use the tool that gets the job done. I don't see the need to bash Google or Microsoft. We already know Ballmer is not fit to run Microsoft. Thats not really news. In fact one of the Top 10 prediction for 2010 is that he would be removed.

I have said it a million times here, competition breeds innovation. The Nexus One will push Apple to build a better iPhone. The end user (that would be us) is the only one that suffers when there is a lack of competition. Some just don't understand that very simple fact.

I really despise the statement "competition breeds innovation" when referring to Apple, as it assumes that it's companies like MS and the various PC manufacturers that are driving Apple to do what it does.

Anyone who is not suffering from MISS (Microsoft-Induced Stockholm Syndrome) can see a few glaringly obvious things regarding Apple:

1. Stating that "Apple needs competition" is in itself an admission that Apple is indeed ahead of the competition, regardless of it's market share numbers.

2. If the iPod and the iPhone has shown us anything, it's that the only competition Apple has right now is Apple. Look at the iPod over the years: the more successful it became, the better it got, eventually giving us both the iPhone and the iPod touch. The MacBook / MacBook Pro lines are arguably the best laptops on the market, Mac or Windows, and are the top selling laptops over $1000, period. Apple needs no help from competitors like MS to improve on their products; they do it all by themselves.

3. Given that in every market that Apple has entered late, it has dominated that market (yes, even in the set top TV box category AppleTV is the top seller), is it not Apple that is providing the competition to other companies? Yet these companies have failed to utilize that competitive pressure to make more innovative products; they've simply time and time again copied much of what Apple has done.

Try looking at the facts and being intellectually honest in the future.
post #119 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

That's the problem. MS whoring its OS out to all takers regardless of the hardware it runs on. MS chose HP (or HP chose MS, whichever, LOL.) And HP produced THAT.

MS = HP.

Done.

I'm not angry, just incredibly amused.

You sure sound angry to me, as do a lot of other posters on this thread. People here are making a mockery of PC fanboys' "hysterical" posts on whatever outside site, but all I need point to are some of the ridiculous posts being spewed in this thread. Let's have some balanced perspective, shall we? Belittling the other side here at AI and going over there to troll makes you all look like 5 years olds (PC trolls are despised here at AI, but yet it's seemingly alright to go troll for Apple elsewhere). And Microsoft does not equal HP. Microsoft has become a spokesman for the PC industry, yes, but Microsoft has been and continues to be primarily a software company. Microsoft's "whoring" of its OS to the PC hardware makers is the nature of the PC industry. Why does it bother you so much? The Apple fanboys here constantly use the hardware+software vs. software debate in their defense of Apple/smearing of Microsoft, do they not? And yet here you are, as well as others, sneering and jeering at Microsoft because they didn't manufacture and deliver on a rumored hardware product that was only a concept in the first place. Perhaps it is the Apple mentality that concepts are expected to become the real deal, I don't know. If I earned a dime for every time product concepts didn't become reality, whether from other industries (automotive comes to mind), or even the tech industry, I'd be rich.
post #120 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

An 88% + market share is hardly the sign of a floundering company.

But it's 88% of the PC (meaning both Windows and Mac personal computers) market. But I think back to when Steve J first came back to Apple. One of the first things he did was declare that the PC wars were over between Apple and MS. Remember when Bill Gates was on the screen during that one MacWorld keynote and everyone gasped?

Do you think that Jobs, all those years ago, knew where things were heading? Perhaps he was willing to declare the PC wars as over because he knew that several years down the road the PC market itself would be over? Why continue fighting MS over PC market share if the PC market wasn't the future?

Sure, Apple needs to continue making personal computers, that market isn't dead yet. But look how much time and effort they've put into moving beyond the PC market.

And then we see MS put their personal computer desktop OS on a tablet device. Apple has moved on. But MS is still clinging to the past.
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