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Google struggling to support angry Nexus One buyers - Page 4

post #121 of 189
1/9/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Yeah not like the early iPhone fanbois that stood in line for hours only to have the iPhone drop 200.00.

I guarantee the Nexus One will drop more in price than the iPhone has. In a year, people won't even remember the original Nexus One on T-Mobile. There is such a random mishmash of google phones coming out with each carrier getting a unique phone that the Nexus one will be lost in the crowd.
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post #122 of 189
1/9/10 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by springerj View Post

Anyone who's tried to use google apps at an enterprise level won't be surprised at this. Google builds great stuff and throws it over the wall the to the users. There is no support. As an alternative, there are forums filled with thousands and thousands of messages that take hours to sort through. It's an unfortunate fact of life that if you have thousands of people trying to use something, some of them are going to run into unanticipated problems. Google should have coupled this well engineered phone product with a well-engineered support system at roll out to avoid ending up with a bad smell.

The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
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post #123 of 189
1/9/10 at 12:58pm
I don't think it has anything to do with early adopters. The problem seems to be partly that everybody is passing the buck and Google has no real help line. It's pretty stupid that they don't. It's a really bad thing for Google if early adopters, and likely tech savvy people, are having problems. Unless the problems iron themselves out they won't get a lot of people buying. I wonder what the problem/call rate is for Android phones vs. iPhones and how happy are the customers with the support they receive. Recently I bought an iTunes gift card and for some reason when I scratched the back I couldn't read all the numbers. So I wrote to Apple and with in 3 hours, on a weekend mind you, I got a reply and they gave me the correct number. It was supposed to take up to 2 days. If it was Google I'd still be waiting I think and out $25.00.
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post #124 of 189
1/9/10 at 1:14pm
Google will probably do the right thing by this phone. The company won't let the phone or its owners founder.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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post #125 of 189
1/9/10 at 2:28pm
Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.

Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?
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post #126 of 189
1/9/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

What Apple manages to accomplish, can only really by accomplished by Apple. Apple approaches tech (and support) from a completely different place. Bertrand Serlet's comment about this last year was spot on.

Hey, you should consider starting your own church. Seems you really trust that Apple is the messiah company in the world of pretenders, so it is a great foundation for you.

In Steve we trust !
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post #127 of 189
1/9/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

Funny. I know about 5 early adopters. None of them were pissed.

exactly.

and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?

also: iirc, the data plans for the first iphone version were 10 bucks cheaper than after the price drop, saving 240 bucks over the length of the contract. i also seem to recall that those iphones were fetching pretty high prices on ebay...

if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.
Tofino
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post #128 of 189
1/9/10 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm3 View Post

The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.

precisely. i would go as far as: adwords is only product that matters to google. everything else is just a delivery vehicle.

there's a reason the rest is mostly in beta - beta products are generally unsupported. google takes great pride in their herd of nerds, and rightly so for the products that matter to them. but engineers aren't usually good at supporting the unwashed masses. support takes a different skill set than a googleplex full of PhDs can supply.
Tofino
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post #129 of 189
1/9/10 at 5:07pm
So what is the difference between a "Google" phone and a "Google experience" phone?

There are differences between a HTC Android phone and a "Google experience" Android phone.

This is what Eric Lin, HTC Global PR and Online Community Manager had to say:-

The Vodafone version of Magic has with Google on the back, like the G1. This simple phrase indicates that the phone has a pure Google experience no customizations have been made to the software.

The Magic being sold in most of Asia is not a Google experience phone, so we have started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has Exchange support, a much more responsive and full featured camera application, a custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well.

Source

So wouldn't these phones have been the first "Google" phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shavex View Post

Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.

Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #130 of 189
1/9/10 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

When launching the iPhone, Apple staunchly insisted that AT&T and other carrier partners allow it to handle much of the customer support itself, which helped to head off the problem of users being passed back and forth between the hardware vendor, the carrier, and the software developer.

it's a logical move. Apple made the hardware and the software they should support those items. ATT handles the billing and other carrier stuff.

pity google didn't have similar logic, cause the Nexus might have had a shot at being a real iphone compet

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money.

if this were most other companies I would agree with you. but Apple actually makes an effort to ease the pain when things do go wonky with the early models. the retail stores and whole genius bar makes that effort possible.

I remember back in the day before the Geek Squad and all that, my parents ordering a Gateway computer. what a nightmare getting support for that. I would never have early adopted with them.

and on the issue of bigger,better, cheaper. that just happens. it's the nature of the game with computers, phones etc at the moment. which is another thing that is a positive about Apple, you don't have to re-up every time. I have g3s and g4s that are still working. I can't run Final Cut etc on them but I can handle my email, run quickbooks etc just fine.
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post #131 of 189
1/9/10 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.

iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.

When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.

You know, I recall that, factoring the cost of the plan, the 3G buyers paid more for theirs than the original people did. It was just a matter of up front vs. amortized costs. When the 3G was announced, I thought about buying the older model because of the cheaper data plan. I really didn't understand why Apple dropped the price so quickly though, that ends up being an additional $50 a month for getting it a couple months earlier than the Oct 2007 buyers, all said and done. I've paid $50 for phones that lasted me several years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

exactly.

and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?

I recall that updates are coming, 2.0 is only a couple months old right now.

Quote:
if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.

I don't think the argument was about waiting for product revision z, but waiting for product revision b, after all the bugs and mistakes in initial design assumptions are shaken out.
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post #132 of 189
1/9/10 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm3 View Post

The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.

you should have been on the other side. I know several folks were, just dollars away from their first check, banned from Adsense. bland form letter, no real explanation, no one to contact for details, no way to appeal etc. the only thing we could find in common was that they made that level really fast, like in the first month. it was like Google was worried that these folks would make some real money so out they had to go.

and i'll bet anything that the advertisers were still charged for the hits, making Google a nice bit of change they didn't have to share
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post #133 of 189
1/9/10 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Is this really bypassing the search engine? Using bookmarks might also be a way to bypass search, but really, once I know where a site is, I don't need to use Google for it, it a search wasn't needed for that use. Whether I use the NY Times app or their web site, I don't need Google's search to do that, either way, I already know where to find them. A search is only necessary to find new sources of information.

It is, because search doesn't depend on Google if you are looking for information the company can have the program provide, as many of the apps do.

But, in addition, even when the search engine is being used, the consumer only sees the found results presented directly in the program, and thus, never Googles search result pages. therefor, no paid Ads that Google can say was clicked to, and so they don't get paid.

You point out the NYTimes app, which I also use. Normally, you would be searching Google for those articles, and coming up with a lot of paid results on top, as well as those on the sidebar. Now, you go directly to the page. The same thing is true for the other news apps, the music apps, the movie apps, the restaurant apps, weather apps, etc. You never see Google.

You can find new information with the many apps that offer specialized searches on their own, as some of those I mentioned already.

If you don't know an article is in the NY TIMES, the WSJ, Bloomberg's, etc, you have to search Google for it, but not now. It's much easier to find this stuff on the apps rather than on the web sites, esp on such a small screen as phones offer. The web sites are very complex.
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post #134 of 189
1/9/10 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

times have changed ole gtan poo bah

these days pro0ducts like the cracked screen PRE are rushed to market
making early buyers at great risk of being f..ed . the 3 rd cycle is 60 percent cheaper and works 3x better
in the past it was only S W that was a risk to use at the start ,

Most new products don't have major problems. It may seem that way because of the publicity they get, but it isn't true.

And we have two definitions of early adopter, or as some are calling it, first adopter.

Even first models are usually going to be good once some manufacturing teething problems are fixed. That usually takes a few weeks. After that, buying the first model usually carries little risk.

So those eager to get that first model usually need only to wait a short while to see if there are any show stoppers. Apple and Palm have fixed their early problems.

But those who wait for the second model are playing a fools game, because the second model can have the same defects as the first. It can have new defects, and you still need to wait a few weeks.

It solves nothing to wait for a second model unless the first lacks features you want, and feel that the second will have. But if it doesn't, and you get the next model anyway, you wasted a year. I took that chance with the iPhone, and I was lucky.
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post #135 of 189
1/9/10 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

welcome back dude
great insight
you was sorley missed here


9

Thanks.
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post #136 of 189
1/9/10 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

This paragraph is positively not true.

How do you know this? It's been said before by those in the industry.

And Apple does handle the warrantee themselves. Usually you must go though the phone company. I had plenty of hassles with that at Sprint.
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post #137 of 189
1/9/10 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Obviously you don't own a business. Trying to provide the type of customer service that e-commerce hounds have gotten used to is near impossible.

You, just like every other consumer out there, have been spoiled by this over-the-top customer service. To the point where you think its insulting when you have to go through a myriad of keypad navigation before getting to talk to someone. It doesn't matter that your issue is no more or less important than any of the other few million people who bought the same product and manage to use it without calling and screaming at a minimum wage employee. It doesn't matter that the purpose of Contact Us form is to provide a concise way (for the business) to organize and respond to issues.

None of that matters. What matters to you is that you want what you want right now, without any care on how its accomplished. Whether its your fault, or not your fault. Fix me fix me! Give me stuff because I had to wait 5 minutes for you to call me back! That's 5 minutes with my product that I can never get back!

Fact: If people weren't impatient, rude, and flat out stupid, retailers would not need babysitters as customer service reps, they could have a few well-trained individuals.

I've had two businesses. customer service is one of the most important areas of a company. The problem is that it usually is a loss for the company, a negative impact on the bottom line.

Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.

Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and if not, they can take it in for you. That makes customers feel as though the company cares.

Who else does that? MS is supposedly trying in its new store, but we'll see how that goes.
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post #138 of 189
1/9/10 at 7:43pm
Customer Service is about collaboration. There are definitely unreasonable customers but there are also companies that think service is a waste of energy and resources.

After a few years of retail experience, and before that a bit of event management experience, I believe the solution is collaboration.

The company presents what it can do, not to pander, not to patronise, not to blindly offer discounts and appeasements, but collaborate with the customer on what the customer can also do to solve the problem.

The customer is not always right, but deserves to be treated right.

Maybe I'm too idealistic, but some companies out there definitely prove it can be worthwhile and profitable to have the appropriate level of customer service. That is, not nonchalant or dismissive, nor heavily script-based and desperate to please at any cost.
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post #139 of 189
1/9/10 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

A few questions:

1. Who the hell are these people who already bought the stupid Google Phone? (GEEKS)

2. How are these (GEEKS) not able to use the damn thing?

3. <snip>

1. Early adopters and geeks

2. Because this shows really how bad the product is and how uncoordinated the support is?
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post #140 of 189
1/9/10 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I

Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.

Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is.

Superb observations. Google should pay attention to this.
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post #141 of 189
1/10/10 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.

iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.

When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.

I agree. I have been making fun of a friend who paid $2500 for a Mac Plus 24 years ago.
Me, I am still waiting to buy a computer but every time a new one comes out, I know sure as hell it will look stupid next to next year's model for the price.
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post #142 of 189
1/10/10 at 2:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaFox View Post

If a version 2 does not appear all that says to me is:
  1. They were able to fix the flaws with software updates (meaning the v1 is now the v2).
  2. The product was not good enough to warrant fixing those flaws and releasing a version 2. Hooray, we've saved ourselves money by not being one of those suckers.

Model T Ford, Flyer I (1903 Flyer i.e the Kitty Hawk), ENIAC.

I'm glad people and organisations adopted these "version ones" otherwise there'd be
no Ford Mustangs, Boeing 747s and Apple Macintoshes today.

There's no progress without early adopters; if Charles Babbage's Difference Engine had been adopted mechanical computing would have started in the 19th century not 20th century.

I used to think William Tenn's story Null-P was implausible, where humanity devolves instead of progresses; from some of the comments made on this topic I now realise it's entirely possible.
\
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post #143 of 189
1/10/10 at 4:04am
Excuse my Schadenfreude but... how many of those buying a Google phone thought they were getting the same kind of phone as an Apple iPhone or Windows device, only without the big company persona behind the purchase? When you cut out the support, is it any wonder that you get none?

Fifth Decade Blog Not for the delicate - it's all about International Politics, Business, Finance, Technology, Sport and stuff like that.

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Fifth Decade Blog Not for the delicate - it's all about International Politics, Business, Finance, Technology, Sport and stuff like that.

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post #144 of 189
1/10/10 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2 View Post

Excuse my Schadenfreude but... how many of those buying a Google phone thought they were getting the same kind of phone as an Apple iPhone or Windows device, only without the big company persona behind the purchase? When you cut out the support, is it any wonder that you get none?

Money and big market caps do not a great user experience make.
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post #145 of 189
1/10/10 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

I used to think William Tenn's story Null-P was implausible, where humanity devolves instead of progresses; from some of the comments made on this topic I now realise it's entirely possible.
\

The movie Idiocracy is coming true. Faster than we think, perhaps. Seriously, I'm no genius but I think my IQ is going up by the day, by virtue of me not getting dumber.

Facebook is probably contributing to the general decline in thought and ability to write reasonable sentences of any sort. It's a bigger culprit than text messaging and email.

In fact, email is now considered "formal writing"... WTF
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post #146 of 189
1/10/10 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The movie Idiocracy is coming true. Faster than we think, perhaps. Seriously, I'm no genius but I think my IQ is going up by the day, by virtue of me not getting dumber.

Facebook is probably contributing to the general decline in thought and ability to write reasonable sentences of any sort. It's a bigger culprit than text messaging and email.

In fact, email is now considered "formal writing"... WTF

Try following this disgustingly fanboy biased forum for a year and see how smart you feel then.
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post #147 of 189
1/10/10 at 8:17am
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Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Try following this disgustingly fanboy biased forum for a year and see how smart you feel then.

Well you joined over a year ago so how smart are you?
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post #148 of 189
1/10/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.

Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and

You've gotten to the heart of the matter. Excellent post.
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post #149 of 189
1/10/10 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joguide View Post

Most tech companies sell a product (commodity) to you the customer. They want to make the best products so that you will want to buy it.

Google, on the other hand, wants to sells you and your personal data to their advertiser and clients. For Google, you are a commodity.

That is why their software and hardware are only just good enough and cheap, because all they care about is getting you to their trough whatever way they can, to fatten you up, to sell you down the road. Is it a wonder that they did not think how they would address customer complaints? Customer satisfaction is not part of the business model.

Think of the Matrix. Think of Soylent Green.

"Soylent Green is people! We've got to stop them somehow!"


You are absolutely correct and have put it very nicely.

This is the whole problem with the Freetard universe -nothing is really free.
I would far rather pay a straight-up, market determined fair price for goods and services than get something for 'free' in exchange for hidden costs that I the consumer don't understand.
This is why I will never touch gmail, google docs, etc.
Google is quickly becoming the new evil. Too bad they didn't just stick to being a search engine.
TANSTAAFL!
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post #150 of 189
1/10/10 at 8:51am
And this is exactly what is most wrong with Android. The Microsoft business model is terrible for consumers and has been a tragedy for the computer industry. The main reason I stick with Apple when given a choice is because they are the last of the computer companies that actually takes responsibility for a complete computer system. As a consumer I do not want to be a system integrator, I want to buy a complete product that does what I want. The MS approach of being responsible only for the software and just pushing it out to run on commoditized hardware is bad for innovation of the complete system and terrible for customer support.

The MS, Google, Linux, etc. approach to computer systems is really best for people who want tools that they can play with, not tools that they can use.

This is even more true in tightly integrated devices like the smartphone segment of the market. Google is obviously trying to become the MS of this new market segment, whereas Apple is obviously trying to do a better job of competing with the vertically integrated business model than they did in the post IBM PC clone years.
We the customers will be far better off if Apple's approach succeeds. While it is critical that there be meaningful competition in the smartphone market (and there certainly is with the likes of RIM), I sure do hope Android fails miserably and quickly - we will all be better off for it.
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post #151 of 189
1/10/10 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

Well you joined over a year ago so how smart are you?

Ouch.
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post #152 of 189
1/10/10 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

Well you joined over a year ago so how smart are you?

Obviously not smart enough to quit while I'm ahead! But it's pretty thin at this point, you understand that, don't you?
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post #153 of 189
1/10/10 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ouch.

Anant!
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post #154 of 189
1/10/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingo View Post

There seems to me to be two kind of innovation. Incremental - gradually improving on existing solutions, and paradigmatic - fundamentally changing the rules of the game. Apple is no better than the rest of the pack at the first - or are they (i will return to that), but they shure are ahead of them at the latter. Every few years, Appel changes the rules of the game, and every one else plays catchup. So when you and others say that Apple needs competion in order to innovate, you are really saying (or so I understand it) that they should follow the others in incremental innovation.
And true, once Apple has introduced a new paradigm, the stubornly - and rather conservatively, stick to it. But is that so bad? Consumers appear to think it is not! (a few poster here seem to think that is beacuse they are all being fooled - by the millions, year after year ... speaks for itself I guess). Apples conservative minnimalism and theire insistence on not doing anything they cant do really, really well can indeed be frustrating sometimes. But gennerally (with the occasional cockup), I believe we end up with an overall better product because of it. So, I hope Apple keeps its cool - as they usually do - and avoid the race to pile technology on tehcnology and functionality on functionality where it really dosen´t make any great practical difference and does not improve the product in any significant way.

One of the best "first posts" to a forum that I have ever read...

Unfortunately, it is OT (but necessary)-- as others have hijacked this thread about google support for nexus 1.

*
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #155 of 189
1/10/10 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Obviously not smart enough to quit while I'm ahead! But it's pretty thin at this point, you understand that, don't you?

I would think that people who visit, and especially those who join an enthusiast site will expect to see, and smile upon those who have unbridled enthusiasm for the area in which the site specializes in.

I don't understand why that would be upsetting. It should be expected. What would be bad would be those people going to a competitors site, or a site that serves an opposite point of view, and strongly, and continuously expressing their opinions there.

We get those people coming here, and it's nasty. That's much worse.

A site like this mainly serves people who are mostly content with, or enthusiastic about Apple and its products. That's how it should be.

If that's too much to ask of some people, then they should be going to a more neutral site, or a site that reflects their interests, instead of bothering the people here. Pretending to be an Apple user, and then constantly digging at everything Apple does, and the people who like what Apple does, is just a smokescreen for them.

It's more than annoying.

Having been a member for years, and having visited this site for years before that, before I had the time to post (before I retired), I can say that almost everyone here, no matter how fond of Apple they may be, and that includes myself, has criticized them one time or another.

We aren't all zombies as the small number of Apple critics who come here seem to be. I suppose I agree with what Apple has done about 75% of the time, and disagree the rest. If I felt less inclined to think what they do is good most of the time, I wouldn't be an Apple user to the extent I am. That just makes sense.

I suggest that if there is a couple of people who are so enthusiastic that you can't take it, just ignore them. At least they fit in with the theme here.

It's harder to ignore the anti-Apple robots that are here because they stand out, as they intend to. You should know the old Japanese expression, "The nail that stands up gets hammered down." It's not something original here.
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post #156 of 189
1/10/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The argument is ridiculous either way, since it's so well known that better and cheaper technology always comes along. The only course a "wise" consumer can take is to bang rocks together. Nobody will ever improve on that, or make it less expensive.

...but it [banging rocks together] sure makes the camel drink the water!

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #157 of 189
1/10/10 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I would think that people who visit, and especially those who join an enthusiast site will expect to see, and smile upon those who have unbridled enthusiasm for the area in which the site specializes in.

I don't understand why that would be upsetting. It should be expected. What would be bad would be those people going to a competitors site, or a site that serves an opposite point of view, and strongly, and continuously expressing their opinions there.

We get those people coming here, and it's nasty. That's much worse.

A site like this mainly serves people who are mostly content with, or enthusiastic about Apple and its products. That's how it should be.

If that's too much to ask of some people, then they should be going to a more neutral site, or a site that reflects their interests, instead of bothering the people here. Pretending to be an Apple user, and then constantly digging at everything Apple does, and the people who like what Apple does, is just a smokescreen for them.

It's more than annoying.

Having been a member for years, and having visited this site for years before that, before I had the time to post (before I retired), I can say that almost everyone here, no matter how fond of Apple they may be, and that includes myself, has criticized them one time or another.

We aren't all zombies as the small number of Apple critics who come here seem to be. I suppose I agree with what Apple has done about 75% of the time, and disagree the rest. If I felt less inclined to think what they do is good most of the time, I wouldn't be an Apple user to the extent I am. That just makes sense.

I suggest that if there is a couple of people who are so enthusiastic that you can't take it, just ignore them. At least they fit in with the theme here.

It's harder to ignore the anti-Apple robots that are here because they stand out, as they intend to. You should know the old Japanese expression, "The nail that stands up gets hammered down." It's not something original here.


I'm very willing and eager eager to partake in healthy discussions regarding all things Apple. I'm not here to badger or troll, though I'll admit I occasoinally do so to temper the incessant anti-'everything that isn't Apple' sentiments posted here on a daily basis. That sort of behavior can't always be ignored and for me has reached it's boiling point as of late. Moreover, it detracts AS MUCH as trolling from healthy, informative discourse. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing but by in large, that's not what this site is about, rather, an idealistic view of how we both wish it was. Regardless, that's my peace and I'll leave it at that. I appreciate and respect your pov.
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post #158 of 189
1/10/10 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavex View Post

Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.

Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?

Gotta' take issue with this!

I bought an Apple ][ in July 1978. It connected to a TV via a 3rd-party adapter. When I ran my computer, it caused interference with my neighbor's TV signal (nothing more reasonable than a Notre Dame alumnus who can't watch TV during football season .

Anyway, I called Apple headquarters in Cupertino and within an hour, Rod Holt (Apple V.P. of Engineering) was at my house to try and solve the problem. He did! (It was the 3rd-party adapter-- he put some torroid cores around the cable).

I was so impressed, [with the company, their product and support] that I convinced 2 others to join with me to open a computer store in December of 1978.

Apple support has always been part of their offering.

*
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #159 of 189
1/10/10 at 10:36am
Many of us here do address people who over state Apple's advantages, but many times we just ignore it and move on with more relevant conversation.

I don't think there is a problem with disagreeing with someone who over states but its counter-productive to over state in the opposite direction. Its best if you stay within relevant facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

I'm very willing and eager eager to partake in healthy discussions regarding all things Apple. I'm not here to badger or troll, though I'll admit I occasoinally do so to temper the incessant anti-'everything that isn't Apple' sentiments posted here on a daily basis. That sort of behavior can't always be ignored and for me has reached it's boiling point as of late. Moreover, it detracts AS MUCH as trolling from healthy, informative discourse. Unbridled enthusiasm is one thing but by in large, that's not what this site is about, rather, an idealistic view of how we both wish it was. Regardless, that's my peace and I'll leave it at that. I appreciate and respect your pov.
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post #160 of 189
1/10/10 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've had two businesses. customer service is one of the most important areas of a company. The problem is that it usually is a loss for the company, a negative impact on the bottom line.

I agree, when considered by itself!

Quote:
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.

That is the key! Customer service, done right, contributes to the bottom line!


We founded our computer stores based on 3 simple principals:

1) return a fair profit to our investors
2) provide the best possible products and services to our customers
3) have fun

We were in the retail computer business (retail stores), in Silicon Valley, between 1978-1989 (some of the most competitive years in the industry).

We charged retail (or very close) and had satisfied (return) customers from Sindelfingen to Guam.

What made it all possible was that we sold quality products, and supported them at a reasonable profit.

Everybody understood this (our management, our employees, our suppliers, our customers). They all chose to play by these rules, and everybody won!

...and [most of the time] we all had fun!

*
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
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