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Google struggling to support angry Nexus One buyers - Page 4

post #121 of 212
1/9/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDB View Post

You seem to think that anyone who doesn't always wait for something to become cheaper is a fool who needs his meds checked.

Its not only about the money. Its about buying a product that has never been tested. Early adopters not only pay the highest price they are also the ones that deal with the most headaches.

This isn't about Apple this has to do with all technology. Leaving Apple out of this lets take the early Nexus One adopters. They will pay the highest price for the phone, on the worst network (TMobile) and they will deal with all the bugs and the customer service learning curve.

When it comes to all technology the early adopters that have to be the first on the block to have the product pay all the costs of bring the new technology to the market and they get a gen1 product that almosts always improves with time.

Its not that you wait forever or never buy anything its that you wait for the price to become reasonable and the bugs to be worked out.
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post #122 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:00am
I think the real loser here is Tmobile. Its my understanding that they have great customer service. Hate to see that take a hit due to Google's inexperience in product support.
"One who forms a judgement on any point but cannot explain it clearly, might as well never have thought at all on the subject." Pericles
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"One who forms a judgement on any point but cannot explain it clearly, might as well never have thought at all on the subject." Pericles
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post #123 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its not only about the money. Its about buying a product that has never been tested. Early adopters not only pay the highest price they are also the ones that deal with the most headaches.

This isn't about Apple this has to do with all technology. Leaving Apple out of this lets take the early Nexus One adopters. They will pay the highest price for the phone, on the worst network (TMobile) and they will deal with all the bugs and the customer service learning curve.

When it comes to all technology the early adopters that have to be the first on the block to have the product pay all the costs of bring the new technology to the market and they get a gen1 product that almosts always improves with time.

Its not that you wait forever or never buy anything its that you wait for the price to become reasonable and the bugs to be worked out.

And whose opinion should I wait for? Yours? No thanx.

I'll buy what I want, when I want, and I'll be the judge of whether or not it was a "good purchase" for myself.

unreal
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post #124 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

I applaud it. Every whiney pissant American that need support yesterday who will sit on hold longer than it would take to search for their answers, should be a taught their place.

Customer Service, or what is has become today, is an absolute joke. And Customer Service practices of Fortune 500 companies are Anti-Competitive practices.

This is what companies like Amazon and other large online retailers have bred:

"Hello, this is customer service."

"Waaa!!!"

"Would you like a refund and few extra things for free?"

"Waaaa!!!!!!!!!"

"Well we're trying but the soonest we can get it there would be yesterday."

"Waaaaaaaaaa!!!"

"Thank you very much for your business, is there anything else I can give you today?"

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the problem with customer service is that it's too accommodating and pandering. Or that the antidote is a good dose of "we'll help you when we get around to it, take this time to contemplate your sense of entitlement."

My experience is that most customer service is designed first to keep you away from any people at all, second to only let you talk to people who work form scripts and probably can't help you, and only as a last resort and contingent on the customer getting a little hysterical allowing escalation to someone who knows or can do anything.

That's most; there are of course exceptions, generally somewhat upscale retailers or specialized like Apple. In the case of Google, email only support for selling pricy consumer electronics is not good.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #125 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:05am
I wouldn't call them foolish for waiting in line and being an early adopter [some people just like to have the cool stuff first]. I, however, would call them cry babies for whining about the price decrease months later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.

iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.

When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.
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post #126 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the problem with customer service is that it's too accommodating and pandering. Or that the antidote is a good dose of "we'll help you when we get around to it, take this time to contemplate your sense of entitlement."

My experience is that most customer service is designed first to keep you away from any people at all, second to only let you talk to people who work form scripts and probably can't help you, and only as a last resort and contingent on the customer getting a little hysterical allowing escalation to someone who knows or can do anything.

That's most; there are of course exceptions, generally somewhat upscale retailers or specialized like Apple. In the case of Google, email only support for selling pricy consumer electronics is not good.

Obviously you don't own a business. Trying to provide the type of customer service that e-commerce hounds have gotten used to is near impossible.

You, just like every other consumer out there, have been spoiled by this over-the-top customer service. To the point where you think its insulting when you have to go through a myriad of keypad navigation before getting to talk to someone. It doesn't matter that your issue is no more or less important than any of the other few million people who bought the same product and manage to use it without calling and screaming at a minimum wage employee. It doesn't matter that the purpose of Contact Us form is to provide a concise way (for the business) to organize and respond to issues.

None of that matters. What matters to you is that you want what you want right now, without any care on how its accomplished. Whether its your fault, or not your fault. Fix me fix me! Give me stuff because I had to wait 5 minutes for you to call me back! That's 5 minutes with my product that I can never get back!

Fact: If people weren't impatient, rude, and flat out stupid, retailers would not need babysitters as customer service reps, they could have a few well-trained individuals.
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post #127 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.

iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.

When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.

You are not really smart are you. You clearly think this Google phone with not support is worth more $550 without a contract. Even though you will need one from someone. I bought the first Iphone and had I not fried it by hooking up an unsupported charger it would not have died in march of last year. Every year the phone gained so many new features that I couldn't justify the upgrade. From apps to location services. That initial investment continued to improve while other companies just make your phone obsolete when the new one arrives. Look at google, they are doing it already with phones not supporting the new software.
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post #128 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Obviously you don't own a business. Trying to provide the type of customer service that e-commerce hounds have gotten used to is near impossible.

You, just like every other consumer out there, have been spoiled by this over-the-top customer service. To the point where you think its insulting when you have to go through a myriad of keypad navigation before getting to talk to someone. It doesn't matter that your issue is no more or less important than any of the other few million people who bought the same product and manage to use it without calling and screaming at a minimum wage employee. It doesn't matter that the purpose of Contact Us form is to provide a concise way (for the business) to organize and respond to issues.

None of that matters. What matters to you is that you want what you want right now, without any care on how its accomplished. Whether its your fault, or not your fault. Fix me fix me! Give me stuff because I had to wait 5 minutes for you to call me back! That's 5 minutes with my product that I can never get back!

Fact: If people weren't impatient, rude, and flat out stupid, retailers would not need babysitters as customer service reps, they could have a few well-trained individuals.

I have owned a business and you attitude is why I don't do business with certain companies. When the owners have your attitude the employees are even worse and people tend to get pissed off when they spend their money and then the attitude is its your problem now. You give businesses a bad name. Its companies like Apple and Disney that I look to be more like. Mcdonalds service suffers because of the quality of management and crew is lacking. It was not alway this way. The company standards are extremely high so what you experience is about 70% of the goal. If it starts where you are 70% of that is a nightmare.
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post #129 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Your argument only makes sense if it could be shown that people KNEW, from the beginning, that Apple would lower the price down the road. As no one knew that, likely not even Apple, your argument is invalid.

The argument is ridiculous either way, since it's so well known that better and cheaper technology always comes along. The only course a "wise" consumer can take is to bang rocks together. Nobody will ever improve on that, or make it less expensive.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #130 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Welcome to the real world. The fact is tomorrow products are always better than todays products whether they are 1st generation or not. Next July when Apple releases the 4th generation iPhone you will say that those who bought the 3GS are fools because they didn't wait for the 4th generation, which we all know will offer at least more capacity and faster speeds for the same price.

If you are going to hold off buying because you are worried that something better and possibly cheaper will come out in the future then you will never buy a thing in your life. People who bought the first iPhone, including myself, bought it because it was the best smartphone at that time and did what we wanted and more. By the way, Edge might seem slow now (3 years later) but so will 3G when 4G starts rolling out.

I guess you think that those who bought a Mac a year ago are fools because they didn't wait until now to buy the newer ones with better specs for the same price or maybe those who bought their cars few years back didn't wait until now for better looking cars with improved performance and safety

Spot on. But why bother with logic and facts.....

As an aside, the first gen 8GB iPhone on eBay goes for ~$250 (I have no intention to sell mine -- it's a beauty). In comparison, the 3GS 16GB goes for ~$200.

Must be a lot of fools out there!
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post #131 of 212
1/9/10 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The argument is ridiculous either way, since it's so well known that better and cheaper technology always comes along. ......

Not quite. You're ignoring the other side of the coin, the utility that one derives from consuming/using the product (relative to price paid).
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post #132 of 212
1/9/10 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Must be a lot of fools out there!

Now we agree.
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post #133 of 212
1/9/10 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

From what I heard from Nexus's announcement I got the impression that HTC would do all the hardware support, while Google would handle the software.

Even if this impression were true, don't you see the problem with it?

When symptoms appear it is frequently not obvious whether the underlying problem is related to hardware or software. So during the initial stages while the diagnosis is being made, WHO is responsible for investigating the cause? This situation often lends itself to the hardware people punting by saying "I've never heard of that issue, it must be a software problem", and the software people, of course, saying the reverse.

Somebody needs to be the go-to entity in charge of support. Obviously, Apple has realized this for years, which is why they tend to design as much of their systems as they can. If they're going to support it, they might as well be experts in all aspects of the product.

Thompson
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post #134 of 212
1/9/10 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not quite. You're ignoring the other side of the coin, the utility that one derives from consuming/using the product (relative to price paid).

I wanted to quote someone in the Appleinsider thread then the 8GB iPhone dropped 200.00

I will give you one guess who it is.

"Notwithstanding the fact that a 33% price drop in a two-month period is draconian"


"That said, I do feel badly for those who could not afford this easily, and probably were able to buy one only because they saved every hard-earned penny. Another category of early adopters is the really well-off who don't like to feel shafted. It makes no sense for Apple to p*$$ off either group."

Draconian? Does that mean unusually severe or cruel. Someone is using big words again.....


A Quote from our Global Moderator Melgross

"Quite honestly, it was stupid to wait on line two hours to buy a phone."

Funny I thought I said the same thing.
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post #135 of 212
1/9/10 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

bla bla bla

yeah you are simply a jerk.
c'mon, back on the topic please....
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post #136 of 212
1/9/10 at 10:02am
Here is my thought about early adopters:

1. If you have the money to buy the new technology and you don't care about spending because you are well enough, then you are not a fool.In fact you gain a lot of things from being an early adopter, and most of the gains are helpful to yourself and to others for as long as you share it.

2. If you have an immediate need of the features of the new technology and you have enough budget to spend for it, then being an early adopter is not being a fool...because you have a damn immediate need for that and most probably on the business side of it.

3. If you have enough money, but don't have an immediate need but probably just a want of a new tech gadget, it is wise to wait a little while for the price to drop and wait for a better and enhanced stable version of the new gadget. You are not a Fool.

4. If you are in need of a new high tech gadget but don't have enough budget for the high price... Then, from your decision lies the reason wether you are a fool or not. But then, either the budget or the need can be compromised.

I hope someone can correct me where I am wrong..Thanks guys...
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post #137 of 212
1/9/10 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I wanted to quote someone in the Appleinsider thread then the 8GB iPhone dropped 200.00

I will give you one guess who it is.

"Notwithstanding the fact that a 33% price drop in a two-month period is draconian"


"That said, I do feel badly for those who could not afford this easily, and probably were able to buy one only because they saved every hard-earned penny. Another category of early adopters is the really well-off who don't like to feel shafted. It makes no sense for Apple to p*$$ off either group."

Draconian? Does that mean unusually severe or cruel. Someone is using big words again.....

This one last post to respond to you -- I've tried to not get into a mud-slinging match -- and then back to topic.

You apparently do not just selectively read, but also selectively quote. Go back and paraphrase the main points I made in that thread (which are essentially the same as what I've said here) instead of selectively quoting. Indeed, the word 'Notwithstanding...' you quote me as writing, in case you do not get it, is a thought connective from a previous set of thoughts in that thread. Care to point out what they are, instead by simply coming off as intellectually dishonest?

More important, you may also have a selective hearing problem, when it comes to how people perceive you. Let me help you with just a few examples (actual quotes):

"Please make your point without being a jerk...."

"At this point, your just been nasty, no education or point of view is left in your posts in this thread."

"I've read your posts over some weeks now and I'm worried about you kid. You really mustn't skip taking the tablets. "

"You are not really smart are you."

"Also, a personal question extremeskater -- you seem really upset about this, and your coming across as a real jerk in your comments. What's up with that?"

"Welcome to the real world."

"You are not really smart are you."

Need I go on?
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post #138 of 212
1/9/10 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppers View Post

Here is my thought about early adopters:

1. If you have the money to buy the new technology and you don't care about spending because you are well enough, then you are not a fool.In fact you gain a lot of things from being an early adopter, and most of the gains are helpful to yourself and to others for as long as you share it.

2. If you have an immediate need of the features of the new technology and you have enough budget to spend for it, then being an early adopter is not being a fool...because you have a damn immediate need for that and most probably on the business side of it.

3. If you have enough money, but don't have an immediate need but probably just a want of a new tech gadget, it is wise to wait a little while for the price to drop and wait for a better and enhanced stable version of the new gadget. You are not a Fool.

4. If you are in need of a new high tech gadget but don't have enough budget for the high price... Then, from your decision lies the reason wether you are a fool or not. But then, either the budget or the need can be compromised.

I hope someone can correct me where I am wrong..Thanks guys...

Couldn't agree more. It's about as simple as that. Incidentally, some people also purchase early technologies as keepsakes, or as objects that may gain value over time, or simply to sell later in the secondary market to finance the purchase of the next gen.
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post #139 of 212
1/9/10 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not quite. You're ignoring the other side of the coin, the utility that one derives from consuming/using the product (relative to price paid).

I'm not ignoring anything, I just haven't mentioned this, since I was arguing against the basic premise that early adopters get screwed by definition. You could make that argument for anyone who buys any technology product on any given day, since something better/faster/cheaper will no doubt be available tomorrow, next week, or next month. The only available "solution" is to never buy anything, ever.

So the argument is fundamentally ludicrous.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #140 of 212
1/9/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.

That's just rubbish. It's sound to me like you're just envious you can't afford to be an early adopter and are trying to justify that to yourself by claiming that those who can and do are fools!

Pretty much everything get's cheaper once it's no longer new. People who buy things when they're new and expensive know that, but choose to proceed anyway. That doesn't make them stupid.

Do you buy DVDs (or watch films on pay per view)? Guess what. You can save 50% or more of the cost if you're willing to wait a year from when they're first released. Wait long enough and they'll be free on terrestrial TV or given away with your Sunday paper. So what? You pays your money and makes your choice.

There are lots of reasons why you might choose to be an early adopter, knowing full well what you're buying will be cheaper in 6 months' time. The product might be exactly what you've been waiting for and you don't want to wait 6 months. Perhaps you have a keen interest in technology and want to learn about and understand what's new. Perhaps you just want to go around and show off how much money you've got. If that's stupid, it's no more or less stupid than people who buy designer clothes or flash cars, say. No one is forced into it though.
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post #141 of 212
1/9/10 at 11:28am
OK, so being an early adopter of new tech means you run the risk of paying more, or being subject to hardware or software glitches.

What does that have to do, again, with Google not having a robust customer service infra-structure? Are people supposed to wait while Google changes its corporate identity before buying hardware directly from them, in order to not be "fools"?

I'm trying to figure out why Extremeskater is making such a strenuous case for never buying anything from Google, ever.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #142 of 212
1/9/10 at 11:45am
Don't you just love the smell of fresh blood in the morning?
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post #143 of 212
1/9/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Can't wait for "Hi, I'm a Google, I am an Apple..." ads!

I would not put it past Apple to do this, I think it will be hilarious. I like Google as my search engine but I don't think I am going to stray from Apple.

The iPhone is the first phone I have had longer than 6 months and I am sticking by it. And I love my iMac, macBookpro, airport, .....

JD
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post #144 of 212
1/9/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Yeah not like the early iPhone fanbois that stood in line for hours only to have the iPhone drop 200.00.

I guarantee the Nexus One will drop more in price than the iPhone has. In a year, people won't even remember the original Nexus One on T-Mobile. There is such a random mishmash of google phones coming out with each carrier getting a unique phone that the Nexus one will be lost in the crowd.
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post #145 of 212
1/9/10 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by springerj View Post

Anyone who's tried to use google apps at an enterprise level won't be surprised at this. Google builds great stuff and throws it over the wall the to the users. There is no support. As an alternative, there are forums filled with thousands and thousands of messages that take hours to sort through. It's an unfortunate fact of life that if you have thousands of people trying to use something, some of them are going to run into unanticipated problems. Google should have coupled this well engineered phone product with a well-engineered support system at roll out to avoid ending up with a bad smell.

The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
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post #146 of 212
1/9/10 at 12:58pm
I don't think it has anything to do with early adopters. The problem seems to be partly that everybody is passing the buck and Google has no real help line. It's pretty stupid that they don't. It's a really bad thing for Google if early adopters, and likely tech savvy people, are having problems. Unless the problems iron themselves out they won't get a lot of people buying. I wonder what the problem/call rate is for Android phones vs. iPhones and how happy are the customers with the support they receive. Recently I bought an iTunes gift card and for some reason when I scratched the back I couldn't read all the numbers. So I wrote to Apple and with in 3 hours, on a weekend mind you, I got a reply and they gave me the correct number. It was supposed to take up to 2 days. If it was Google I'd still be waiting I think and out $25.00.
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post #147 of 212
1/9/10 at 1:14pm
Google will probably do the right thing by this phone. The company won't let the phone or its owners founder.
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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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post #148 of 212
1/9/10 at 2:28pm
Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.

Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?
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post #149 of 212
1/9/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

What Apple manages to accomplish, can only really by accomplished by Apple. Apple approaches tech (and support) from a completely different place. Bertrand Serlet's comment about this last year was spot on.

Hey, you should consider starting your own church. Seems you really trust that Apple is the messiah company in the world of pretenders, so it is a great foundation for you.

In Steve we trust !
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post #150 of 212
1/9/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

Funny. I know about 5 early adopters. None of them were pissed.

exactly.

and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?

also: iirc, the data plans for the first iphone version were 10 bucks cheaper than after the price drop, saving 240 bucks over the length of the contract. i also seem to recall that those iphones were fetching pretty high prices on ebay...

if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.
Tofino
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Tofino
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post #151 of 212
1/9/10 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm3 View Post

The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.

precisely. i would go as far as: adwords is only product that matters to google. everything else is just a delivery vehicle.

there's a reason the rest is mostly in beta - beta products are generally unsupported. google takes great pride in their herd of nerds, and rightly so for the products that matter to them. but engineers aren't usually good at supporting the unwashed masses. support takes a different skill set than a googleplex full of PhDs can supply.
Tofino
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Tofino
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post #152 of 212
1/9/10 at 5:07pm
So what is the difference between a "Google" phone and a "Google experience" phone?

There are differences between a HTC Android phone and a "Google experience" Android phone.

This is what Eric Lin, HTC Global PR and Online Community Manager had to say:-

The Vodafone version of Magic has with Google on the back, like the G1. This simple phrase indicates that the phone has a pure Google experience no customizations have been made to the software.

The Magic being sold in most of Asia is not a Google experience phone, so we have started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has Exchange support, a much more responsive and full featured camera application, a custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well.

Source

So wouldn't these phones have been the first "Google" phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shavex View Post

Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.

Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #153 of 212
1/9/10 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

When launching the iPhone, Apple staunchly insisted that AT&T and other carrier partners allow it to handle much of the customer support itself, which helped to head off the problem of users being passed back and forth between the hardware vendor, the carrier, and the software developer.

it's a logical move. Apple made the hardware and the software they should support those items. ATT handles the billing and other carrier stuff.

pity google didn't have similar logic, cause the Nexus might have had a shot at being a real iphone compet

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money.

if this were most other companies I would agree with you. but Apple actually makes an effort to ease the pain when things do go wonky with the early models. the retail stores and whole genius bar makes that effort possible.

I remember back in the day before the Geek Squad and all that, my parents ordering a Gateway computer. what a nightmare getting support for that. I would never have early adopted with them.

and on the issue of bigger,better, cheaper. that just happens. it's the nature of the game with computers, phones etc at the moment. which is another thing that is a positive about Apple, you don't have to re-up every time. I have g3s and g4s that are still working. I can't run Final Cut etc on them but I can handle my email, run quickbooks etc just fine.
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post #154 of 212
1/9/10 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.

iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.

When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.

You know, I recall that, factoring the cost of the plan, the 3G buyers paid more for theirs than the original people did. It was just a matter of up front vs. amortized costs. When the 3G was announced, I thought about buying the older model because of the cheaper data plan. I really didn't understand why Apple dropped the price so quickly though, that ends up being an additional $50 a month for getting it a couple months earlier than the Oct 2007 buyers, all said and done. I've paid $50 for phones that lasted me several years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

exactly.

and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?

I recall that updates are coming, 2.0 is only a couple months old right now.

Quote:
if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.

I don't think the argument was about waiting for product revision z, but waiting for product revision b, after all the bugs and mistakes in initial design assumptions are shaken out.
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post #155 of 212
1/9/10 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm3 View Post

The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.

you should have been on the other side. I know several folks were, just dollars away from their first check, banned from Adsense. bland form letter, no real explanation, no one to contact for details, no way to appeal etc. the only thing we could find in common was that they made that level really fast, like in the first month. it was like Google was worried that these folks would make some real money so out they had to go.

and i'll bet anything that the advertisers were still charged for the hits, making Google a nice bit of change they didn't have to share
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post #156 of 212
1/9/10 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Is this really bypassing the search engine? Using bookmarks might also be a way to bypass search, but really, once I know where a site is, I don't need to use Google for it, it a search wasn't needed for that use. Whether I use the NY Times app or their web site, I don't need Google's search to do that, either way, I already know where to find them. A search is only necessary to find new sources of information.

It is, because search doesn't depend on Google if you are looking for information the company can have the program provide, as many of the apps do.

But, in addition, even when the search engine is being used, the consumer only sees the found results presented directly in the program, and thus, never Googles search result pages. therefor, no paid Ads that Google can say was clicked to, and so they don't get paid.

You point out the NYTimes app, which I also use. Normally, you would be searching Google for those articles, and coming up with a lot of paid results on top, as well as those on the sidebar. Now, you go directly to the page. The same thing is true for the other news apps, the music apps, the movie apps, the restaurant apps, weather apps, etc. You never see Google.

You can find new information with the many apps that offer specialized searches on their own, as some of those I mentioned already.

If you don't know an article is in the NY TIMES, the WSJ, Bloomberg's, etc, you have to search Google for it, but not now. It's much easier to find this stuff on the apps rather than on the web sites, esp on such a small screen as phones offer. The web sites are very complex.
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post #157 of 212
1/9/10 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

times have changed ole gtan poo bah

these days pro0ducts like the cracked screen PRE are rushed to market
making early buyers at great risk of being f..ed . the 3 rd cycle is 60 percent cheaper and works 3x better
in the past it was only S W that was a risk to use at the start ,

Most new products don't have major problems. It may seem that way because of the publicity they get, but it isn't true.

And we have two definitions of early adopter, or as some are calling it, first adopter.

Even first models are usually going to be good once some manufacturing teething problems are fixed. That usually takes a few weeks. After that, buying the first model usually carries little risk.

So those eager to get that first model usually need only to wait a short while to see if there are any show stoppers. Apple and Palm have fixed their early problems.

But those who wait for the second model are playing a fools game, because the second model can have the same defects as the first. It can have new defects, and you still need to wait a few weeks.

It solves nothing to wait for a second model unless the first lacks features you want, and feel that the second will have. But if it doesn't, and you get the next model anyway, you wasted a year. I took that chance with the iPhone, and I was lucky.
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post #158 of 212
1/9/10 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

welcome back dude
great insight
you was sorley missed here


9

Thanks.
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post #159 of 212
1/9/10 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

This paragraph is positively not true.

How do you know this? It's been said before by those in the industry.

And Apple does handle the warrantee themselves. Usually you must go though the phone company. I had plenty of hassles with that at Sprint.
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post #160 of 212
1/9/10 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Obviously you don't own a business. Trying to provide the type of customer service that e-commerce hounds have gotten used to is near impossible.

You, just like every other consumer out there, have been spoiled by this over-the-top customer service. To the point where you think its insulting when you have to go through a myriad of keypad navigation before getting to talk to someone. It doesn't matter that your issue is no more or less important than any of the other few million people who bought the same product and manage to use it without calling and screaming at a minimum wage employee. It doesn't matter that the purpose of Contact Us form is to provide a concise way (for the business) to organize and respond to issues.

None of that matters. What matters to you is that you want what you want right now, without any care on how its accomplished. Whether its your fault, or not your fault. Fix me fix me! Give me stuff because I had to wait 5 minutes for you to call me back! That's 5 minutes with my product that I can never get back!

Fact: If people weren't impatient, rude, and flat out stupid, retailers would not need babysitters as customer service reps, they could have a few well-trained individuals.

I've had two businesses. customer service is one of the most important areas of a company. The problem is that it usually is a loss for the company, a negative impact on the bottom line.

Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.

Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and if not, they can take it in for you. That makes customers feel as though the company cares.

Who else does that? MS is supposedly trying in its new store, but we'll see how that goes.
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