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post #161 of 189
Whew!

After wading through a lot of trolling and some very excellent comments, I'd like to offer my opinion!

First, I am an Apple fan... but, I don't consider myself a fanboi-- if Apple sucks at something* (yes, Virginia, they do) they deserve criticism!

I, mostly, like Google services (Search, Maps, Earth and to a lesser extent Gmail).

I do not like the underlying tone of the original article! It appears to be looking for problems, finding some, then relishing in the fact that they exist. It appears to be schadenfreude on the part of the author.

Certainly, some problems are expected with the rollout of a new technology! Especially if the offering is made by a company with little experience in a segment of the market.

I do not have any idea how pervasive the problems are-- I tend to think they are exaggerated by a vocal minority.

Google has shown to be a nimble company, and I suspect that they will resolve the support issue.

I hope they do!

Then we'll need to evaluate the Nexus on its merits (or find something else to bitch about).

Dick

* MobileMe rollout; original (2007) iPhone Activation problems (remember those 3+ day delays?); a special press event for the iPod Hi-Fi and a leather iPod case... and a whole lot more!

*
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post #162 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I agree, when considered by itself!



That is the key! Customer service, done right, contributes to the bottom line!


We founded our computer stores based on 3 simple principals:

1) return a fair profit to our investors
2) provide the best possible products and services to our customers
3) have fun

We were in the retail computer business (retail stores), in Silicon Valley, between 1978-1989 (some of the most competitive years in the industry).

We charged retail (or very close) and had satisfied (return) customers from Sindelfingen to Guam.

What made it all possible was that we sold quality products, and supported them at a reasonable profit.

Everybody understood this (our management, our employees, our suppliers, our customers). They all chose to play by these rules, and everybody won!

...and [most of the time] we all had fun!

*

Yup!

It's a problem when companies only look to service as a loss, and try to minimize it as much as possible. It's true that taken in isolation, it does cost the company money, but it's like advertising.

Poor customer service advertises to your customers, and potential customers that you don't care about them after the sale. That's bad thinking.

It must be looked at as contributing to sales and profits. That way, better customer service is understood to add to a companies bottom line, rather than detracting from it.

I loved the Apple Ad where The Apple guy told the PC guy that they should spend money on fixing their problems instead of advertising.
post #163 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Whew!

After wading through a lot of trolling and some very excellent comments, I'd like to offer my opinion!

First, I am an Apple fan... but, I don't consider myself a fanboi-- if Apple sucks at something* (yes, Virginia, they do) they deserve criticism!

I, mostly, like Google services (Search, Maps, Earth and to a lesser extent Gmail).

I do not like the underlying tone of the original article! It appears to be looking for problems, finding some, then relishing in the fact that they exist. It appears to be schadenfreude on the part of the author.

Certainly, some problems are expected with the rollout of a new technology! Especially if the offering is made by a company with little experience in a segment of the market.

I do not have any idea how pervasive the problems are-- I tend to think they are exaggerated by a vocal minority.

Google has shown to be a nimble company, and I suspect that they will resolve the support issue.

I hope they do!

Then we'll need to evaluate the Nexus on its merits (or find something else to bitch about).

Dick

* MobileMe rollout; original (2007) iPhone Activation problems (remember those 3+ day delays?); a special press event for the iPod Hi-Fi and a leather iPod case... and a whole lot more!

*

There's an interesting article that gives an opinion about Android that I find sums up Google's problems with it. Of course, Android supporters came out in droves to flame him (it's by no means just Apple supporters who do that).

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...onal-thoughts/
post #164 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There's an interesting article that gives an opinion about Android that I find sums up Google's problems with it. Of course, Android supporters came out in droves to flame him (it's by no means just Apple supporters who do that).

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...onal-thoughts/

That was an excellent piece, the reviewer gave credit where it's due and gave his opinion about what counts.

I'm of the same mind, Android is half baked, and will be so for some time, it's like using the computer at work VS using your own, it's boring, sure it works, but it's nothing special, it's that damn policy written up by a committee, politically correct, but as awkward as a gorilla in a black mini skirt and a thong...

I'm using a G1, and frankly pissed at the way the phone is being marketed, loyal TMobile customer for a decade, eligible for an upgrade of all 3 lines of my family plan, but can't get the Nexus One without paying full price or punting my family plan and jumping through hoops to keep my current phone numbers.

I guess stuff like that mess Google Wave should have prepared me for this, but I was honestly caught flat footed by how poorly Google has managed to market this phone. It's like someone at Google lost a bet and HAD to market a phone, and this is their half assed effort.
post #165 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esoom View Post

That was an excellent piece, the reviewer gave credit where it's due and gave his opinion about what counts.

I'm of the same mind, Android is half baked, and will be so for some time, it's like using the computer at work VS using your own, it's boring, sure it works, but it's nothing special, it's that damn policy written up by a committee, politically correct, but as awkward as a gorilla in a black mini skirt and a thong...

I'm using a G1, and frankly pissed at the way the phone is being marketed, loyal TMobile customer for a decade, eligible for an upgrade of all 3 lines of my family plan, but can't get the Nexus One without paying full price or punting my family plan and jumping through hoops to keep my current phone numbers.

I guess stuff like that mess Google Wave should have prepared me for this, but I was honestly caught flat footed by how poorly Google has managed to market this phone. It's like someone at Google lost a bet and HAD to market a phone, and this is their half assed effort.

There's the joke about everything Google being beta all the time. It seems to me that Android is still beta, but Google is adding features like there's no tomorrow.

The other problem is this concept of "open". I don't see that as being such a good thing. It's shortsighted. It's the politically correct thing to do these days, of course. But it leads to fragmentation. That's already happening.

T-Mobile is (sorry to have to say this) the worst carrier. I don't really care about the reports in CU about this, because it doesn't tell the whole story. People have complaints not just based on real problems, but on perceived problems.

If the iPhone has resulted in a 5,000% increase in data traffic for AT&T over the past three years that the iPhone has been out, vs 350% for Verizon, does that mean AT&T's network is worse, or that the vast increase in data has swamped it? I read that any network would be having the same problems, including Verizon's vaunted one. T-Mobile has almost no coverage when compared to anyone else. If you are lucky to live in one of the few small areas where 3G has finally arrived, you're lucky, otherwise, no 3G for you. Often, no 2G either.

With all the complaints about AT&T's coverage, how do you deal with that?
post #166 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Most new products don't have major problems. It may seem that way because of the publicity they get, but it isn't true.

And we have two definitions of early adopter, or as some are calling it, first adopter.

Even first models are usually going to be good once some manufacturing teething problems are fixed. That usually takes a few weeks. After that, buying the first model usually carries little risk.

So those eager to get that first model usually need only to wait a short while to see if there are any show stoppers. Apple and Palm have fixed their early problems.

But those who wait for the second model are playing a fools game, because the second model can have the same defects as the first. It can have new defects, and you still need to wait a few weeks.

It solves nothing to wait for a second model unless the first lacks features you want, and feel that the second will have. But if it doesn't, and you get the next model anyway, you wasted a year. I took that chance with the iPhone, and I was lucky.

i waited 7 yr for cds to enter my house
i then got three players for free i bought a system to surround my new TV and CD player
i bought a sansui 5000b from 1970 i think . i got my speakers from a DEAD roadie >on volume one my speakers would blow out your windows .
2 marshall amps 4 feet tall 3 ft sq
i joined 8 CD clubs ANd GOT thousands for very low prices .
i never bought video discs
i still won't buy an iphone
too large too much work
i will wait for the coming small simplfied NANO phone
i just bought a 42 in screen panasonic plasma for 800 bucks 600 mhz
i ALWAYS WAIT FOR the 3 or 4 yr to get best tech at lowest price
except for my MBP 15

wait wait for the race to bottom to happen

welcome back mon ami
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post #167 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


With all the complaints about AT&T's coverage, how do you deal with that?

I'm aware of TMobile's serious shortcomings, I use them because they're the lowest cost carrier I've come across yet, as soon as I get a decent smartphone that works with a lower cost carrier I'm there...

Ran across this jewel a while ago, surprised it didn't get legs, but look at the update:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...-is-bunkum.ars

Quote:
A sourcewho requested we not reveal his identitytold Ars that the problem isn't the cell radio hardware, nor the network infrustructure, but an issue with the way that the iPhone OS conserves power. All iPhone apps, including Phone.app, cause the radio to switch from "active" to "idle" mode when accessing the network far more often than traditional phones do. This causes the signaling channel, responsible for such functions as SMS messaging, initiating, maintaining, or ending a phone call, voicemail notifications, and DHCP requests, to become overloaded.

"This can lead to odd effects," the source told Ars. "For example, you could be in an area with perfect 5-bar reception, but because the signalling channel is overloaded your phone won't ring and calls go into voicemail." Our source also said that the iPhone was the first phone to cause this particular problem, but that Android and webOS phones have had a similar effect.
post #168 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Superb observations. Google should pay attention to this.

goggle already understands this
google made its bones on cust service and free google earth stuff
they understand
they do not care about anything at all
they are rich and spoiled kids
with deep pockets

my 2 cents

peace 9
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post #169 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Thanks.

come to 47 street and visit
starbucks on me
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post #170 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

There wasn't anything bad said about Apple. Being an early adopter had to do with the consumer. Also if you read my posts I stated several times my opinion was based on any technology including early adopters of the Nexus One.

Its kind of interesting how so many here have selective reading skills.

the next off comment and you are banned
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post #171 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esoom View Post

I'm aware of TMobile's serious shortcomings, I use them because they're the lowest cost carrier I've come across yet, as soon as I get a decent smartphone that works with a lower cost carrier I'm there...

Ran across this jewel a while ago, surprised it didn't get legs, but look at the update:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...-is-bunkum.ars

Yes, I had read the original article that that one debunking it.

Well, it goes back to the 5,000% vs 350% increase in data traffic between AT&T and Verizon over the past three years.

It's easy to criticize AT&T, but I'm doubtful that Verizon would have dealt any better with it. It's easy to brag how good your service is when compared to the next guy when you have a small fraction of the demand for it.

Even if AT&T had ten times the data bandwidth available, they would possibly still have worse service because of Verizon's low usage. The same is true for the other networks where usage is even lower. T-Mobile, for example, has almost no data usage, so its poor network seems better than it is, unless you go out of one of the few small enclaves that offer it.
post #172 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

come to 47 street and visit
starbucks on me

You'd have to give me your address and phone number in a PM. Then I'd be glad to.
post #173 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There's an interesting article that gives an opinion about Android that I find sums up Google's problems with it. Of course, Android supporters came out in droves to flame him (it's by no means just Apple supporters who do that).

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...onal-thoughts/

That is a good read! Wow! Thousands of flames!

I also read the Nexus review referenced at the start of the article:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...roid-thoughts/

This appeared to be an even-handed review of the phone and Android-- the author clearly identified his personal opinions as such.

I really enjoy reading articles like this, that include facts, opinions and reasons supporting both!

*
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #174 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Thousands of flames!

Of course. Envy and frustration can be a hard road. It was a pretty fair review, though.
post #175 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Of course. Envy and frustration can be a hard road. It was a pretty fair review, though.

The quality of the vitriol is starting to paint a very unflattering portrait of the Android fanboy: an adolescent boy of whatever age.

Who are adolescent boys afraid of? Women, gays, being perceived as gay, and people with any kind of wit and style who they regard as "posers" and gay.

What do the Nexus One defenders resort to? Declaring that iPhone users are gay, women, posers, gay, pretentious, insufficiently tech savvy, and gay.
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post #176 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The quality of the vitriol is starting to paint a very unflattering portrait of the Android fanboy: an adolescent boy of whatever age.

Who are adolescent boys afraid of? Women, gays, being perceived as gay, and people with any kind of wit and style who they regard as "posers" and gay.

What do the Nexus One defenders resort to? Declaring that iPhone users are gay, women, posers, gay, pretentious, insufficiently tech savvy, and gay.

Google *has* been encouraging the whole "gay" slant, haven't they?

It's an interesting tactic. Which will ultimately achieve nothing.
post #177 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Google *has* been encouraging the whole "gay" slant, haven't they?

It's an interesting tactic. Which will ultimately achieve nothing.

I don't know if it's Google encouraging it, or if it's just an inevitable outgrowth of their sort of Asperger-y, engineering-centric take on the world. Like "What is this "style" you speak of? Are you a homosexual of some sort?"
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post #178 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't know if it's Google encouraging it, or if it's just an inevitable outgrowth of their sort of Asperger-y, engineering-centric take on the world. Like "What is this "style" you speak of? Are you a homosexual of some sort?"

We kind of have that with the Droid Ads. It's trying to paint the iPhone as a "women's" phone. I mean, the Droid is all so masculine, isn't it? so square, so black, so chunky. Spaceships, meteoroids and all, slamming into the ground streaming fire.

So now that mid 20's something male looks upon the Droid more favorably than the iPhone. How long that will last, I don't know.

Maybe until they find the battery cover keeps falling off and they have to tape it back on. With all their iPhone friends laughing at them, they might not find it so masculine anymore.
post #179 of 189
A short review (there will be a complete one later) of the Nexus.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-nexus-one.ars
post #180 of 189
Here's another reason why Android will be confusing, the "new" Samsung Galaxy Spica. It has a 3.2"screen, with HVGA rez, a 3 MP camera, and get this, just like the new HTC Droid Eris, Android 1.5.

Yup, the old, now obsolete version. Unless this is completely different from all other 1.5 version phones, there will be NO OS upgrade in the works to 2.x. Maybe not to 1.6 (or why didn't they include that as other phones have it?).

So software choices will be very limited.

Just as I've been saying, the Android is splitting into low end phones, mid phones, and high end phones, as well as different OS's GUI's. Look at the mention of Samsung's GUI for their better Android phones
.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1455...axy_spica.html

I wonder how many people buying this, and the Eris will know that their phone is crippled until after they have it?
post #181 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't know if it's Google encouraging it, or if it's just an inevitable outgrowth of their sort of Asperger-y, engineering-centric take on the world. Like "What is this "style" you speak of? Are you a homosexual of some sort?"

As far as I could tell, Google certainly didn't try to stop Moto or Verizon from doing it with the phone that's running their OS. Silent approval, no?
post #182 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The quality of the vitriol is starting to paint a very unflattering portrait of the Android fanboy: an adolescent boy of whatever age.

Who are adolescent boys afraid of? Women, gays, being perceived as gay, and people with any kind of wit and style who they regard as "posers" and gay.

What do the Nexus One defenders resort to? Declaring that iPhone users are gay, women, posers, gay, pretentious, insufficiently tech savvy, and gay.

really ??
that is just plain sad

i
well
err
my only REAL beef is the name

blade runner owns the nexus 6 title

and i remember the PALM PRE cracked screens blow up >>where so many people just missed the 30 day return date and yet on an ad hoc basis scores of sprint workers still gave back the money or switched it out
even 34 days after buying ]
to day palm pre is a fine 2nd tier smart phone that many have grown to love

what web site would allow such tasteless and demeaning comments to be posted ?? insufficiently tech savvy is the straw that broke m y back ..mountain
get it ??
dunb joke ..i painted all day


peace extemeter and i hope you find a place in the sun that is for you
good bye for now
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post #183 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by chano View Post

@extremeskater
I've read your posts over some weeks now and I'm worried about you kid. You really mustn't skip taking the tablets.
Clearly your mum was an early adopter too and clearly she has paid the price for that but (hey!) she stuck with you nevertheless even though there was no compensatory rebate. Kudos to her.
Fool of a fool.
But wait. I am the embodiment of kindness, after all, so here is a beginner's lesson....just for little old you. Learn it well my bozo.
Now repeat slowly after me........

Early adopters are the ones who take the risks and breathe life into innovation.
Without innovation, there is no progress.
Therefore early adopters are the champions, the sponsors, of all progress.
In brief therefore: No early adopters= No, or very slow, progress.

Write it down. Put the paper in your mouth. Chew slowly. Swallow. Digest it well.
Now go stand facing the corner and do ten reps of this axiom by yourself.
Repeat daily for a month.

Anyone with a brain knows that if you want valuable, innovative products, you go where you can find that and you buy, buy, buy. NO hesitation baby! There is risk in everything, just as in your case my little bozo, and early adopters know that. That's why you survived the slops bucket to vent your bitter loser spleen so often here. The point is, unlike you, most thinking people take the risk knowing that, with the right company, they will never be intentionally short-changed. If their purchase is slightly flawed in its first iteration, they will be listened to and a correction will be made. Any company is free to revise its specs or prices without prior notice. I guess that bothers you because you can't stand that. It makes you feel so powerless and weak, boo hoo, mommeee. But guess what? It's true in your case. You ARE powerless and impotently weak. That is the only thing that comes through so strong and clear in your posts. The ONLY thing mind you. I guess you never realised that. The problem isn't WHAT you say my little bozo, but WHY you say what you do.
But it doesn't have to be that way you know. You see, Steve Jobs knows a bozo when he sees one and he is a good man and so the folks at Apple love you too and made sure there's an app for your condition. Errr WTF is it called now? Hmmm. Oh yeah, it's called 'Get a life sucker.' I think it's free for people like you, with TIBS..... That's Terminal Impotence Bitterness Syndrome but hey, why am I telling you that? You knew that already. Eeesh!
I can think of no other company which, having decided to lower its prices so significantly, so soon after a new product release, also gives enough of a damn to lessen any feeling of buyer's remorse among its customers by swiftly offering a gift in recompense. No one asked for or even expected that, my little bozo. There was no commercial reason to do it either. What would have been better IYO my little bozo? Perhaps you would have liked them to go on charging the old, higher, price for as long as they thought they could get away with it? I mean, who (outside Apple) knew it was over-priced? No one. So you got the wrong company dummy. That is why you are my little bozo. You're good at getting things bass-ackwards. You see, your loser friends at MS and GOOG would have cheerfully done that to you and just laughed at their shit on your face and moved on without a thought for your feelings. Hilarious really and you would deserve that. Hilarious really and you would enjoy that too. Hilarious. Just like your TIBS values and principles.
Now do what you do best. Go away and play with yourself whydontcha? You know it's the only thing that makes you feel better nowadays.
Fool of a fool. Really.
It's a kindness I am doing to you, telling you that. I'm giving you pearls here kid. Because there is a cure at the App Store. But you have to take that first step es. On your ownsome es. No one can do that but you my little bozo. I know you find it scary but you gotta try to fix that screwed up UI of yours.
You'll feel better. Promise.
You can dump the tablets afterwards. Promise.
You'll even smile sometimes. Promise.
So do it. You never know. You could even grow some of your own and become........a contender.
Oh boy. Imagine that.

As you can see, I have spent some time trying to help you. But only you can go to the App Store and start to feel better.

ChandraC

Beautiful writing. Better than Salman Rushdie. Do you have a blog anywhere? I wish you would pen a few words in memory of Cheney and Bush. I miss them so.
post #184 of 189
This is what happens when you try to out Apple Apple before you're ready...

Companies don't get it, you need to have your ducks lined up before you can start firing... and you can't fire on all cannons, you need to fire the first and see if it hits, then you fire the next one and so on... then you're only problem will be to keep up...
post #185 of 189
Just some personal experience.

I'd got an nearby 15 month old iPhone 3g. It had an enclosure crack at the iPod connector and one at the sleep/wake-button after really "heavy" use.

I called apple care december the thirty-first. I explained the damage and the employee asked for some photos. I sent the photos via provided email address and asked for the timespan the replacement would take, if they'd agree that it's a warranty issue, because I'm dependent on the phone (some apps).

The shipping order was submitted at 6:00 pm and I got the new phone on january the fourth 9:30 am, being notified one day before. (It can't always be that perfect.)

I do a lot of support for my own software. Support costs a lot of money.

You have to train yourself and your employees, provide technical information, infrastructure and beside knowledge you need a lot of rhetorical and psychological skills. (And sometimes a lot of self control and really steady nerves)

Customer support is a part of your corporate strategy. If you admit to it low-price products or fast (development) paradigm shifts are prohibited.
post #186 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm sorry its just really hard to take you seriously with comments like this.

"which in this case is my beloved Apple"


My beloved Apple? And I thought Quadra was bad.

Yes, he is quite pathetic. Embarrassing to the other Apple loyalists (like myself).

Anyways, this is another example of what happens when you do not control both the hardware AND software. Just like Windows on PCs.

Mac Mini, iPhone 4S, AppleTV, iPad.

-------------------------------------------------------
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")

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Mac Mini, iPhone 4S, AppleTV, iPad.

-------------------------------------------------------
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")

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post #187 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm not trolling at all. The Nexus One situation is another perfect example how early adopters lose. When you feel the need to be the first on your block to have the new technology be prepared to take it hard and deep.

Will this also be true to some extent with the Apple Tablet? Of course it will, but there are still thousands of users on this board willing to shell out for Version 1.0.

Mac Mini, iPhone 4S, AppleTV, iPad.

-------------------------------------------------------
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")

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Mac Mini, iPhone 4S, AppleTV, iPad.

-------------------------------------------------------
Mac user since 1996 ("The Dark Days")

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post #188 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateRegistering View Post

Will this also be true to some extent with the Apple Tablet? Of course it will, but there are still thousands of users on this board willing to shell out for Version 1.0.

Thousands, even hundreds of thousands around the world, will want to be the first with the Apple Tablet. The difference between that and the Google Nexus One is bigger than first thought. It's the Apple ecosystem, they have a good track record, software updates are reasonably timely, it may not do everything but it will probably do what it does quite alright. Hardware product warranty is quite good with Apple products, relatively speaking. If it has glass and unibody aluminium, which it will proably have, then it should be quite sturdy. My Macbook Aluminium is probably the most robust Mac or PC laptop I have ever experienced, better than the Titanium Powerbook G4 (though I like that design one of the most).

If Steve Jobs unveils the Tablet, expect quick sell out of the first few batches. If Steve wasn't as involved with Apple, then people might have some reservations, but would probably be lining up to get it nonetheless.
post #189 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We kind of have that with the Droid Ads. It's trying to paint the iPhone as a "women's" phone. I mean, the Droid is all so masculine, isn't it? so square, so black, so chunky. Spaceships, meteoroids and all, slamming into the ground streaming fire...

Being here in Asia, I checked out a Droid ad on YouTube. Within the first few seconds, with the Stealth Fighters or what not, I was just like, hmmm, clearly targeted towards a certain demographic...

Dude, this Droid, is like, totally awesome. Imma check my Facebook and then let's get wasted and score with some hot chicks, yeah, high fives all around...!!!



I think my body produces reasonable amounts of testosterone but luckily (I think) it doesn't flood my brain.

I think the iPhone is not regarded as being homosexual in any significant way mainly because everybody and their dog has it. It would be a hard perception to manufacture.
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