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Google struggling to support angry Nexus One buyers - Page 2

post #41 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

This story highlights one of the number one benefits of being an Apple customer. I remember when my step dad had a problem with a Dell computer. Dell claimed it was a Microsoft problem. Microsoft claimed it was a Dell problem.

Apple for the most part controls the whole widget, and takes responsibility for it. Further, when different companies make the software and hardware, neither company understands the product as well as a company that makes it all.

In my view, Google made a mistake putting its name on the phone. It will only alienate other hardware manufacturers, and tarnish it's reputation.

HTC isn't the most brilliant brand out there, they were hoping Google would give it a real boost. I wouldn't entirely write off the Nexus One, and there are always challenges at launch.

However, I am not too surprised by this.

We'll see whether they learn their lesson. However much Apple ***** up the iPhone and iPhone 3G launches there has been clear improvements.

Nexus One may start to fall by the wayside as a kind of experiment.

I hate the mobile phone industry. I really do.
post #42 of 189
So people don't complain about being advertised to, eh? Google broke their own business model here...hope it pays off for them because I'm sure its a big additional complication for them.
post #43 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm sorry its just really hard to take you seriously with comments like this.

"which in this case is my beloved Apple"

My beloved Apple? And I thought Quadra was bad.

It's like the comic books. Every hero needs a villain and vice versa. User MobileMe has emerged because of yourself. Who is the hero and how is the villain, I leave it to you all to work out.
post #44 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm not trolling at all. The Nexus One situation is another perfect example how early adopters lose. When you feel the need to be the first on your block to have the new technology be prepared to take it hard and deep.

Fair enough. Early adoption has a lot of risks. But like I was saying, we'll see whether they can improve. Apple did have some screw ups but overall satisfaction and improvement is undeniable.

I'd like to see how Google and HTC move along from this. The big risk is that HTC is not a *fantastic* brand, and Google is very new to the hardware game and may have not fully worked out how their involvement in hardware is going to play out.
post #45 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm sorry its just really hard to take you seriously with comments like this.

"which in this case is my beloved Apple"


My beloved Apple? And I thought Quadra was bad.

All because I stand for apple and use terms of endearments at times to describe them, means you can't take a valid argument serious?!?!

I believe in my company, and googles lack of preparation and R&D on this industry has hurt them out the gate and IM INSANELY HAPPY ABOUT THAT!

Some companies belong in search (Google) some don't (Apple)

Some companies can produce game changing devices or in this case a phone (Apple) some cannot (Google)
Apple!

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Apple!

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post #46 of 189
They're actually trying to sell a phone with email support only? That beggars belief.
post #47 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Does Prince McLean have to attack Microsoft in every article he writes?

It's in Prince/Slash/Dan's contract.
post #48 of 189
Ouch. Well, I'd have to confirm this is the actual prevailing sentiment before writing Google off.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #49 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

If you stood in line for the first iPhone more then your money mangement skills needed improvement. Your medication needed adjustment. I'm sure that EDGE network speed at the time was great to work with.......

are you trying to fill the vacant TECHSTUD job ??
whats in a name ? 
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whats in a name ? 
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post #50 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

New owners of the Nexus One are complaining that they can't find answers to support issues from Google, and that they're being passed back and forth between it, HTC, and T-Mobile.

A report by PC World detailed several of the hundreds of complaints users have posed to Google's support forums.

Prior to the phone's launch, many pundits predicted that Google's positive brand familiarity with consumers would give it a strong position to market a smartphone. However, the new smartphone (or "superphone" as Google executives like to call it) is the company's first attempt at selling hardware to consumers.

Like Microsoft, Google is discovering that selling software (or in Google's case, giving away free software supported by ads) is a very different business than selling and supporting hardware.

Despite its global domination of the PC operating system and productivity suite markets, Microsoft has struggled to even break even with its Xbox franchise as support issues ballooned into a $1.4 billion write-off. The company's effort to push the Zune against the iPod fell completely flat, even with major retail partners lined up to promote it.

Google avoided the difficult business of retail in the launch of the Nexus One. The phone was designed and built by HTC but is marketed and sold by Google directly from its website.

However, customers buying the device are finding that Google's level of customer support is limited to email, which is only answered in a day or two. There's no direct phone support available at all.

That might be sufficient for users of free software, but it isn't being received well by customers who spent $540 on the new unlocked device. Users who went to T-Mobile or HTC reported getting a general runaround and bad support there as well, with some users complaining that they were told the phone doesn't support 3G at all.

One user in the report said he'd spent an hour and a half being transferred between HTC and T-Mobile after Google failed to help. "T-Mobile also said Google hasn't provided them with any support documents for the phone. Welcome to direct sales Google!" the user complained.

Another user facing similar issued wrote, "I guess I was under the wrong impression but I thought Google would handle the service on the phone."

Apple has faced some issues at each launch of new iPhone models, but had resources in place to handle those issues based on its decades-long experience in selling and supporting consumer electronics.

When launching the iPhone, Apple staunchly insisted that AT&T and other carrier partners allow it to handle much of the customer support itself, which helped to head off the problem of users being passed back and forth between the hardware vendor, the carrier, and the software developer.

Google? I will make it simple: Legit pack of thieves and freeloaders. They do not create content, but freeload off others' content and make money. Everything from newspapers to books.

What is worse, they had their CEO as a board member of Apple. He must have signed - or it was implied - that there should be no conflict of interest. Instead he gets the road map of Apple regarding the iPhone, iPod Touch, and who knows what else. How else could they come with competing products so fast???
post #51 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm not trolling at all. The Nexus One situation is another perfect example how early adopters lose. When you feel the need to be the first on your block to have the new technology be prepared to take it hard and deep.

i name you mini TS

dude there is no google support at all...no one is home..
its not another perfect example of early ad...

IT is THE perfect all time example of not buying a product on its first cycle

except of course for any apple product
they are made with love and kindness and sweet things
i love apple

peace 9
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post #52 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

They're actually trying to sell a phone with email support only? That beggars belief.

Or, "Requires the willing suspension of disbelief!" said our beloved Secretary of State, then Senator, Hillary Clinton as she showed her usual support for the armed forces.


http://thespisjournal.wordpress.com/...-of-disbelief/

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #53 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It's like the comic books. Every hero needs a villain and vice versa. User MobileMe has emerged because of yourself. Who is the hero and how is the villain, I leave it to you all to work out.

I emerged cause besides Quadra I'm the only other Apple evangelist in these forums and I'm proud of that.

To give you some little insight about how much I love apple.

When I create a document in iWork, I NEVER SEND IT TO A NON MAC USER IN A WORD FORMAT, I will send it in PDF or RTF before my cursor even hovers over that sorry excuse for a word processor.

In the past when I went to a site that required IE or Firefox, I simply wrote the site off and decided to find other means to get work done.

If it's not owned by Apple, I don't want it near me in my Apple enviornment.

With the exception of Adobe (but if Aperture X, Gives a better alternative to Adobe, then I will be glad to kiss that POC adobe good bye)

I'm probably more die hard Apple then Quadra now that I think of it. Though he is a Apple Cultist... I put God/jesus first and then Steve Jobs/Apple
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post #54 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMe View Post

When I create a document in iWork, I NEVER SEND IT TO A NON MAC USER IN A WORD FORMAT, I will send it in PDF or RTF before my cursor even hovers over that sorry excuse for a word processor.

Did you know RTF was invented by Microsoft?
post #55 of 189
extreme, dial the personal insults back a bit perhaps - they do your case no good at all. The price of early adoption is of course higher prices and the risk of major fubars like the Google support issue (and, as you mentioned, Apple's and ATT's support issues as well). The fact remains that early adoption is pretty much like any other hobby - its where you choose to spend your money. I was an early adopter of the 1st gen iPhone which is still in fine operation today. I have contemplated upgrading to a 3G or 3GS - but really don't have a need to - my early adopter 1st gen iPhone is still working wonderfully for me. The upside to my experience is that I was one of the first, I was in on ground level as Apple worked out the development and evolution of the entire programme that became the iPhone+iTunes+App Store framework which has been so successful. And in this case - I can look back over the 2.5 years that I have owned this device and see where I have directly or indirectly influenced others in their decisions as to whether or not to buy an iPhone. Price that experience. Or perhaps don't because it has no intrinsic value to you - you seem to be someone who would rather hang back in the pack and let others take the risks for you. And that's fine. But you have no basis to ridicule those who step out and take the risks in order to satisfy their curiosity, their desire to be among the first to use a new design.

For what it's worth let's look at what was spent and what it replaced: iPhone $699. Replaced Palm Tungsten E $199+iPod 30GB $189+Nokia cellphone $150. Net difference:$161. Now factor in the fact that since I started using my iPhone for most of my mobility needs - I have effectively postponed for the last two years the purchase of a laptop, and that seems like it will be indefinite now. I simply don't need a laptop with all my 1st gen iPhone does for me. I won't even bother adding in the discount of the money I'm saving for not buying a laptop. So how does this all equate to me paying a higher price? Not only did I get to be among the first but my TCO and TRI goes down and up respectively each day I continue to own my "over-priced" eraly-adopted piece of kit.
post #56 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its their money people can buy anything they want. If a second generation never appears then the first wasn't worth having.

The best time to buy any new technology is next week. The same advice will apply next week.

All of which has nothing to do with Google having no experience with consumer electronics or customer support, and the predictable results of same.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #57 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Google? I will make it simple: Legit pack of thieves and freeloaders. They do not create content, but freeload off others' content and make money. Everything from newspapers to books.

The books, I get that. I don't understand what they're doing, I really don't think "ask forgiveness later" is good policy.

But they do provide services, it's not just free loading as you might impugn. The information you find on Google is going to be the same information that's available to other search engines.

On the newspapers, they're just being bombastic. If the newspapers don't want Google indexing their material, they only need to add a deny in robots.txt on their web servers, they respect that. Even if they didn't respect that, Google's spiders can be blocked/denied on an IP level. So when newspapers complain about Google, they really aren't being serious, it's just PR, and sad PR at that.

Quote:
What is worse, they had their CEO as a board member of Apple. He must have signed - or it was implied - that there should be no conflict of interest. Instead he gets the road map of Apple regarding the iPhone, iPod Touch, and who knows what else. How else could they come with competing products so fast???

Maybe you missed the stories where he recuses himself of meetings when the iPhone comes up? And the stories where the Apple board was fine with his presence all along? They didn't force him away, he left on his own. If they thought he was a threat, they could have forced him to leave, which suggests to me that your paranoia in the case of the board seat is probably unfounded. That somehow you see something they didn't is unlikely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMe View Post

Dude stop it! Just stop!.... CHROME IS A COPY OFF APPLE... Okay they use webkit (A standard Apple pushed) and made it mainstream for future browser implementations.... GOOGLE COPIES !! Face it man! Google is just a POC and they need to stick with search and get chrome off the OS X platform... Steve doesn't want it, Apple doesn't want it, I DON'T WANT IT, ...tell them to stay on Windows or whatever other platform that doesn't start with OS X

If you don't want it, you don't have to use it. How do you know that Steve doesn't want it, anyway? I highly doubt you know much about what Mr. Jobs wants, judging by your tacky rainbow signature, I doubt you're channeling him very well.

Apple could have made their own rendering engine and made it proprietary rather than collaborate publicly. Instead, they used an open source browser. I recall Google made a Javascript engine for their own browser, and other things that other browsers didn't do yet. Which is part of the idea of the open source ideal, building on existing work rather than reinvent the entire wheel every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Did you know RTF was invented by Microsoft?

Ouch.
post #58 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

If you want to be ahead of the curve you need to pay for this. These are not unwise consumers, they make a concious decision to pay more to have what they want. A lot of early adopters later review the products they bought, either for money or for their friends and family. Those who want the best deal will wait, and those who want the latest will have to pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

No really they are unwise consumers. But thats okay they make things better for us.


Mmm... Is it always so?

What if early adoption of the device (or service) makes it possible for the consumer to save money or creates an opportunity that would not, otherwise, exist.

Would it really matter what you paid if you bought a device or service that got you a better job or saved your life?

I realize that we both are stretching the definition of consumer wisdom.

*
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post #59 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its their money people can buy anything they want. If a second generation never appears then the first wasn't worth having.

I know people that spent 10,000 on pioneer plasma tvs when they first came out. Hard to sayt that doesnt'sound foolish. Early technology adopters are nothing more then people that feel the need to be the first on their block. A educated consumer waits for the bugs to be worked out and the price to drop.

Its hard to argue paying less for a better product.

So everyone should hold back from buying that first gen product? Seems self defeating. Despite what you say, if people hold back because they all took your advice, then the product would disappear, but not because it wasn't good, but because people were given lousy advice.

So you're saying that no one should buy the Nexus One, the Droid, or any of the new products that we now see coming out, just because they ARE first gen products? That's really poor advice indeed. If no one buys them they will never BE improved. We will then have nothing to show for our superior intellect.

I didn't buy the first iPhone model. Not because it was a first gen product, but because it didn't have what I wanted, something I was very clear about from the beginning here.

But, unless the tablet looks to be a bomb, I will be buying it, though I'll wait a couple of weeks for the frenzy to die down, and to check if there are any early manufacturing problems as I almost always do.
post #60 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Okay guess I will have to highlight some of this.

"On Thursday, in a remarkable concession, Steven P. Jobs acknowledged that the company had abused its core customers trust and extended a $100 store credit to the early iPhone buyers."

Did that say Apple abused its core customers?



I just felt so used as a consumer, he said. They hyped up the iPhone for six months and built up our expectations, and then they grabbed our extra $200 and ran.

A $100 credit could be perceived as adding insult to injury, said Mr. Enderle, noting that store credits are seldom well received. Its a way to make you go buy something else, and gives the company a chance to make more money.

Oh please, Enderle is an idiot.

Apple should have waited a couple of months more before dropping prices so that people would have had little to complain about.

If the worst thing a company does is to drop prices, then I think that's pretty good.
post #61 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaFox View Post

If a version 2 does not appear all that says to me is:
  1. They were able to fix the flaws with software updates (meaning the v1 is now the v2).
  2. The product was not good enough to warrant fixing those flaws and releasing a version 2. Hooray, we've saved ourselves money by not being one of those suckers.

But YOU become the sucker.

Aren't you and he quick enough to understand the implications of what you've said? Its a self fulfilling prophecy.

If people don't buy the product just because it's a first gen model, how can you tell if it's good? You can't, because no one's bought it.

When it goes from the market, it's not because it was bad, but because it didn't sell, due to a misconceived concept of no one buying the first model.

Ridiculous!
post #62 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Well I am trying to get him to explain how its logical to pay more for less but I can't seem to get him to reply. Instead he is just trying to reflect attention away from himself.

You know we make bad choices the only difference is he seems to take pride in it.

Your argument only makes sense if it could be shown that people KNEW, from the beginning, that Apple would lower the price down the road. As no one knew that, likely not even Apple, your argument is invalid.
post #63 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Or, "Requires the willing suspension of disbelief!" said our beloved Secretary of State, then Senator, Hillary Clinton as she showed her usual support for the armed forces.


http://thespisjournal.wordpress.com/...-of-disbelief/

Keep the politics out of it, or I will keep you out of it.
post #64 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Maybe you missed the stories where he recuses himself of meetings when the iPhone comes up? And the stories where the Apple board was fine with his presence all along? They didn't force him away, he left on his own. If they thought he was a threat, they could have forced him to leave, which suggests to me that your paranoia in the case of the board seat is probably unfounded. That somehow you see something they didn't is unlikely.

I suspect, having some experience with company boards, that all was not well for some time, but that politics intervened.

I also suspect the concept that Google wasn't interested in having anything to do with phones was expressed by him more than once to the board, until that position became untenable.

I also wouldn't be surprised to find that he knew far more about Apple's plans than many think. The fact that he recused himself from meetings is almost irrelevant. At that level, he had other ways of finding out, and just speaking to board members in an informal way, information would slip out.

I believe that Google had all of this in mind a long while ago.

As soon as it became obvious that people were bypassing Google's search engine on their iPhones and Touches, and getting information directly through their apps, Google became worried. The handwriting was on the wall.

No Google search, no Ad dollars flowing Google's way. The only real way Google makes money is through sponsored search, and Ads.

No search, no Google!

With Android, Google controls Ad space. That's why they bought AdMob out from Apple's offer, and why Apple bought the competition.

The difference is that Google bought them to get Ads for themselves, to make money from it. Apple bought theirs to get Ads for their developers, so that THEY could make some money from it (and perhaps Apple would get their 30% cut, thus paying for the service).

So yes, I do think he was abusing his position. I've seen it before.
post #65 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

are you trying to fill the vacant TECHSTUD job ??

Try the ignore function, it works great for me and for times you don't feel like killing/feeding trolls.
post #66 of 189
Never buy the first revision of the product? Uh, this doesn't seem to be a product plagued by issues, it is plagued by accountability, which all of us expected would happen. You all act as if Android is still on version one, while this phone already is on 2.1, the first revision to 2.0


Hahaha, HTC said to one person regarding poor 3G coverage that the Nexus One doesn't support 3G LOL
post #67 of 189
Funny how a thread on Google's difficulties delivering satisfactory customer service on their first foray into consumer hardware turns into a thread on how dumb it was to buy a first gen iPhone.
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post #68 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Funny how a thread on Google's difficulties delivering satisfactory customer service on their first foray into consumer hardware turns into a thread on how dumb it was to buy a first gen iPhone.

You may have noticed that it's always the same people who try to hijack a thread about some other bad product, and try to find something bad about Apple instead, usually not very successfully. It's in their constitution. They just aren't happy about Apple's success.
post #69 of 189
I don't know why those people looking for Nexus One support can't just f*ing Google it. Although it's quite interesting what comes up:



I actually don't have much desire to see Google fail over this. I think Apple did want to partner with Google on the iPhone and Jobs said something to this effect during a keynote. But, not everyone likes Apple's business model - having a closed app store with apps that only run on one device, having the phone locked to one carrier and that device not supporting everything they need.

The only way Apple will step up and improve these things for the consumer is if they face stiff competition. The Android store is building very quickly and the Nexus One hardware is pretty good. Google is also a large brand people recognize and with billions of hits a day, they have a platform to sell their phone in huge numbers. That's a pretty good incentive for Apple to step up.
post #70 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its kind of interesting how so many here have selective reading skills.

'Selective reading skills,' huh? Go back, take a look at post #9, and explain 'consumer surplus', a term that you have assiduously (oops, another big word, sorry!) avoided.

If you can't, I'll understand. It would, inconveniently, demolish pretty much everything else you've blathered about in this thread.
post #71 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

As soon as it became obvious that people were bypassing Google's search engine on their iPhones and Touches, and getting information directly through their apps, Google became worried. The handwriting was on the wall.

Is this really bypassing the search engine? Using bookmarks might also be a way to bypass search, but really, once I know where a site is, I don't need to use Google for it, it a search wasn't needed for that use. Whether I use the NY Times app or their web site, I don't need Google's search to do that, either way, I already know where to find them. A search is only necessary to find new sources of information.
post #72 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

There wasn't anything bad said about Apple. Being an early adopter had to do with the consumer. Also if you read my posts I stated several times my opinion was based on any technology including early adopters of the Nexus One.

Its kind of interesting how so many here have selective reading skills.

What does people being willing to stand in line for an iPhone, or paying top dollar possibly knowing the price will inevitably come down, have to do with Google not having a robust customer service infrastructure in place?
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post #73 of 189
This sounds a lot like my crappy 3Gs reception that Apple wont acknowledge. My wifes 3G reception is incredibly better than my 3Gs. I'm not defending Google, but Apple only recently came out from under the covers to acknowledge an issue with the 27inch iMacs too.
post #74 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't know why those people looking for Nexus One support can't just f*ing Google it. Although it's quite interesting what comes up:



I actually don't have much desire to see Google fail over this. I think Apple did want to partner with Google on the iPhone and Jobs said something to this effect during a keynote. But, not everyone likes Apple's business model - having a closed app store with apps that only run on one device, having the phone locked to one carrier and that device not supporting everything they need.

The only way Apple will step up and improve these things for the consumer is if they face stiff competition. The Android store is building very quickly and the Nexus One hardware is pretty good. Google is also a large brand people recognize and with billions of hits a day, they have a platform to sell their phone in huge numbers. That's a pretty good incentive for Apple to step up.

The thing about an entity like Google getting fastidious about "closed systems" is that their bread and butter technology that makes all their money is totally closed. Google doesn't open source or license their search algorithms, do they? Not eager to let lots of people get in on the ad income and join the party, either.

So they can well afford to come on like your buddy when it comes to devices and services, because the crown jewels are safely locked up. It would be like Apple releasing a totally open source search engine and getting all smug about how it proved they were the good guys.

Google is a fucking advertising monger and their groovy approach to hardware and services is entirely about driving hits. I think it's pretty important to bear that it mind, because it's quite literally true. Anything you purchase from Google is simply a means to an end, as far as they are concerned.

Whereas Apple, closed model and all, are looking to sell product on first order merits. It might seem like a distinction without a difference, but I can't help that the underlying corporate DNA is going to come home to roost, at some point.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #75 of 189
Well everything that is new is expensive. Look at video game consoles. The XBox 360 was $499 at launch and now you can get a better one for $299, same goes for the PS3 at launch it was $699 (or 599 I can't remember) and now you can get a slimmer version for $299. It's technology.

Back to Google, they should have a better customer support, especially for a consumer electronic where most customers don't know how to run a computer properly. Maybe Google is taking the same stance with Android that they have with all their other software...BETA. That way you don't have to fully support it, its BETA. Geez, how long has GMAIL been stuck in BETA. I don't believe Chrome or Chrome OS will ever leave BETA.

- I just logged on to GMAIL though Safari, I noticed that it doesn't say BETA under GMAIL anymore, when did this happen, I usually just use GMAIL via Mail.app in OS X, my bad -
post #76 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Attempting to use big words still doesn't make you any less of a twit for standing in line to buy a new product and overpaying for it. Then getting a rebate and having to give it back to Apple.....

However I do understand the system needs fools like you so the rest of us can benefit.

If you give us your address I am sure all the educated consumers would like to send you a thank you note seeing your purchase allowed them to buy their 3Gs for 199.00.

Hey look at it this way you may have paid an extra 300.00 but you but at least got alot less for it.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, beyond your pathetic need to try and turn every thread into a conversation about the shortcomings of Apple, it's customers, or both. STFU.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #77 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

bla bla bla.

so instead of providing necessary support to the customers, el goog resorts to trolling around. well, this is not new to me.

and all of this is while the google search itself shows this,



boy, it's fun to watch.




everyone back on the topic please.


.
post #78 of 189
re: extremeskater's posts...

Please make your point without being a jerk... regarding your little banter back and forth with "anantksundaram." You come off as an idiot, which I'll assume you are not... really just a mean idiot. So, as you can read, I don't think it's funny but at least anantksundaram is brushing you off with humor.
post #79 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The thing about an entity like Google getting fastidious about "closed systems" is that their bread and butter technology that makes all their money is totally closed. Google doesn't open source or license their search algorithms, do they? Not eager to let lots of people get in on the ad income and join the party, either.

So they can well afford to come on like your buddy when it comes to devices and services, because the crown jewels are safely locked up. It would be like Apple releasing a totally open source search engine and getting all smug about how it proved they were the good guys.

Google is a fucking advertising monger and their groovy approach to hardware and services is entirely about driving hits. I think it's pretty important to bear that it mind, because it's quite literally true. Anything you purchase from Google is simply a means to an end, as far as they are concerned.

Whereas Apple, closed model and all, are looking to sell product on first order merits. It might seem like a distinction without a difference, but I can't help that the underlying corporate DNA is going to come home to roost, at some point.

That's a very good post. You're right about all that. Perhaps Apple will make a search engine to rival Google with their data center acquisition and maps + admob purchase. The problem with being too open is that the people who so desperately want to exploit it are spammers and they would try to find loopholes in any open algorithms and could invade privacy.

It's tough to know the right way to do things so that it has the most benefit:

Open source OS like Android means open development, low cost, flexibility, competition driving prices down for consumers but it fragments support - not all android apps run on all android devices and what we have here with multiple manufacturers passing the buck - and competition can lower prices to the point of there being little to no profit.

Open search means businesses don't feel that one company has got a significant level of control over possibly their main revenue stream, which is good but it will also mean it gets exploited by spammers and people who don't deserve high rankings, which can affect legitimate businesses even worse.

I think the most important thing is to always feel in control as a consumer. Google's method makes me feel better as a consumer. Open network provider choices, open software market yet still a good phone. Closed search still lets me find what I want even though the amounts of ads everywhere online now is irritating.

With open source search, there would probably still be ads to support the traffic so not much benefit. With Apple's business model, the consumer is restricted to chosen networks and permitted apps, supported media formats etc. That makes me feel constrained as a consumer.

I don't like spending £700+ for a device and expect to have to pay Apple £60 per year to toy around with it for development and be locked to one carrier when others are cheaper. I don't like not being able to install apps I want on that device like filesystem browsers and use the device for portable storage or sync it with both work and home computers.

It's still very true though that the Nexus One is just an example of being open in one area while protecting the main revenue from a closed system somewhere else, which is the same business model as Apple (open source webkit etc). Companies like Microsoft have ridiculed Apple for that business model saying it can't last but that has to apply to even their own business model. I guess only time will tell.
post #80 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Attempting to use big words still doesn't make you any less of a twit for standing in line to buy a new product and overpaying for it. Then getting a rebate and having to give it back to Apple.....

However I do understand the system needs fools like you so the rest of us can benefit.

If you give us your address I am sure all the educated consumers would like to send you a thank you note seeing your purchase allowed them to buy their 3Gs for 199.00.

Hey look at it this way you may have paid an extra 300.00 but you but at least got alot less for it.

At this point, your just been nasty, no education or point of view is left in your posts in this thread. You are now just been a throughly bad person.
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