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post #121 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Or even more common, idiotic cases that block or dampen the signal. I have convinced three friends to ditch their stupid cases and lo and behold, the phone works fine!

If you are having a problem with reception and your iPhone, try running "naked" for a few days and see if it makes a difference. Not all cases affect the signal, but I am always amazed by just how many do and then people get pissy with AT&T or Apple for some stupid redundant piece of crap they put on their phone to "accessorize" it

Ive been running without my Mophie Juice Pack for a couple weeks now since I misplaced the charger cable and Ive been getting more dropped than I have ever had before. I am at CES which certainly explains congestion-based drops, but it happened twice today and the Im away from the convention area so I figured it would be better.
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post #122 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I’m certainly easily amused and it is still early, but that paragraph made my Sunday.

What’s interesting about cut/copy/paste on the iPhone is that Apple didn’t right. I have absolutely no complaints about it, yet for every other touch-based OS it’s either poorly coded and/or only half complete, allowing only certain fields and certain types of data to be cut and copied.

A Boy Genius article from yesterday about the Nexus One…


PS: For those that missed my previous posting on this, it’s good to see some comparative tests come out that go beyond the myopic measuring stick known as the Spec List. Below is a test of the touchscreen technology in various phones. I can’t say I’m shocked that Apple is the clear winner…

http://labs.moto.com/diy-touchscreen-analysis/

You know, it's interesting to notice that iPhone users don't generally go in for the "wake me up when (iPhone competitor du jour) can blank, blank, blank" style of belligerence.

I think it's because how things like cut and paste are done on the iPhone, as you mention. It's not a matter features, it's a matter of how they're implemented.

It doesn't make for terse little snarky slogans-- "Wake me up when Android has less clumsy cut and paste" doesn't show up all the time in these conversations-- but the cumulative effect of lots of little UI things like that is why iPhone users are generally indifferent too, if not mystified by, the constant harping on mere technology that seems to be the stock and trade of some.

And for some, this is somehow merely a matter of "style" and evidence of Apple's interest in "form over function." Which is about what you'd expect from a tech happy Asperger's constituency, which is what makes me wonder about the long term prospects of Android. There's certainly a market for a phone OS that is indifferent to nuance and style (that indeed sees fit to advertise some of its iterations as being explicitly hostile to nuance and style), but for the mass market that stuff matters, even if the average user couldn't tell you, exactly, why they like it so much.

The only reason Windows got away with being shitty about that stuff is price, and in the new universe of handheld computing, that price advantage doesn't obtain, because the primary cost is for the cell plans which the handset manufacturers (or Google, for that matter) have no control over. Just look at the runaway success of the iPod Touch to get a sense of the competitive landscape.
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post #123 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

Ummm no. Like msft. They have load of cash. Weoking at google is hard as they say it's the best place to work. I wouldn't worry about them, they are going to be fine and believe me, they are not scared dude. They can put up a 200 person USA team in two days if they have to or do like everyone else outsource to India where habacgi changes their name to bob.

i wish google the best
they don;t do anything that special

so we;ll re talk next yr and see whats what
time will tell
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post #124 of 235
For those curious about the fragmentation of the Android out of the gate check out this Wikipage. It has some of the future products listed at CES but not nearly all of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_devices Those that cant see how bad this will get need to reevaluate the situation. Android in and of itself isnt bad, but this is a problem.


PS: I think the best solution for consumers may be for a mobile HW vendor to make a consistent build of Android across all their devices, in the same vein as Palm, Apple and RiM. Giving it a clearly recognizable and consistent UI on clearly recognizable HW. Perhaps even certifying apps that are designed to run well on their devices which will give the consumer some piece of mind when choosing their product. The source code for the OS would almost become inconsequential to the user. This may mean that certain advancements wont come as quickly if the vendor has to approve any OS changes and release them all at once, but I think many customers would appreciate that. For better of for worse, I doubt that will happen. \
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post #125 of 235
Following is an example of Android cut and paste done on a HTC Magic, "Google experience" phone (not a Google phone as the Nexus is the first one, apparently).

! Check the official statement of Eric Lin(HTC)"The Magic being sold in most of Asia is not a Google experience phone so we have started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has Exchange support, a much more responsive and full featured camera application, a custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well." custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well."

This is exactly how a paragraph I cut and pasted into another forum came out using a Magic, I could have fixed it but wanted to leave it as is an example.

The original paragraph was definitely NOT formatted that way.
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post #126 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjpoblam View Post

Can you hear me now?

uh, you're breaking up . . .
post #127 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

For those curious about the fragmentation of the Android out of the gate check out this Wikipage. It has some of the future products listed at CES but not nearly all of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_devices Those that cant see how bad this will get need to reevaluate the situation. Android in and of itself isnt bad, but this is a problem.


PS: I think the best solution for consumers may be for a mobile HW vendor to make a consistent build of Android across all their devices, in the same vein as Palm, Apple and RiM. Giving it a clearly recognizable and consistent UI on clearly recognizable HW. Perhaps even certifying apps that are designed to run well on their devices which will give the consumer some piece of mind when choosing their product. The source code for the OS would almost become inconsequential to the user. This may mean that certain advancements wont come as quickly if the vendor has to approve any OS changes and release them all at once, but I think many customers would appreciate that. For better of for worse, I doubt that will happen. \

We had a whole thread with information about Android fragmentation. There's a lot of material in there.
post #128 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Following is an example of Android cut and paste done on a HTC Magic, "Google experience" phone (not a Google phone as the Nexus is the first one, apparently).

! Check the official statement of Eric Lin(HTC)"The Magic being sold in most of Asia is not a Google experience phone so we have started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has Exchange support, a much more responsive and full featured camera application, a custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well." custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well."

This is exactly how a paragraph I cut and pasted into another forum came out using a Magic, I could have fixed it but wanted to leave it as is an example.

The original paragraph was definitely NOT formatted that way.

But isn't it bizarre that this goes absolutely unremarked in the tech press, while "Snapdragon" and "multitasking" give people the vapors?

If this is Google's plan-- to continuously advance the platform by adding new "features", while never going back and doing the polish on what's already there, constantly adding to the pile of almost but not quite functionality, then they're building a house of cards that will one day collapse. Again, MS got away with this because they drove prices down and went commodity pretty early on. The cell industry isn't the PC industry, and if two choices are pretty much the same price and one works really really well and the other one works "well enough", that's unlikely to work over the long haul.
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post #129 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Hmm, funny. You don't offer how to make it better. You throw lame, vague comments about editing in there. Edit where? Hmm?

Well, I guess the fact that you didn't spot them (and others echoed the same sentiment) means that it's probably a waste of time for a site like this to worry about complete sentences, proper grammar, and the like. If the readers aren't educated enough to tell the difference, why bother!
post #130 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

If you're looking for objectivity, I'm afraid you're in the wrong forum.

Then what's the point of the article at all? The author could have just written, "Google sucks. Apple rules." and it would have served as much purpose as dragging it out for 20 paragraphs did.

Are you all just here to be made to feel good about you latest hardware purchase? Or the money you invested in Apple stock? Asking for an even vaguely objective article doesn't seem like that much to ask. The article was entitled, "Google Nexus One vs Apple iPhone 3GS" but barely bothered to compare them beyond the biased features table.

It seems pretty pathetic if all you come here for is to have your ego stroked for being an Apple fan.
post #131 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post


If you're looking for objectivity, I'm afraid you're in the wrong forum.

"Objectivity" does not mean you can't end up taking a side.
post #132 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

"Objectivity" does not mean you can't end up taking a side.

And I sense there has been some case of taking the low road rather than a side. But, of course, the bottom may be said to be one of the sides of the whole of any solid. Such as the issues at hand.

I'm not convinced that AT&T is up to snuff as a provider of adequate PHONE service. I think that was well proved at CES. I think it has been proved where I live.

I think, further, the i*Phone has poor voice quality, is difficult to hear, and the glossy keyboard is difficult to see, for purposes of dialign, in bright light.

Hence, the i*Phone* has very basic flaws as a phone. I apologize for having offended you or raised your hackles, and will say no more.
post #133 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Then what's the point of the article at all? The author could have just written, "Google sucks. Apple rules." and it would have served as much purpose as dragging it out for 20 paragraphs did.

Are you all just here to be made to feel good about you latest hardware purchase? Or the money you invested in Apple stock? Asking for an even vaguely objective article doesn't seem like that much to ask. The article was entitled, "Google Nexus One vs Apple iPhone 3GS" but barely bothered to compare them beyond the biased features table.

It seems pretty pathetic if all you come here for is to have your ego stroked for being an Apple fan.

I enjoy talking about Apple stuff on a forum of like minded people, because it's an interest of mine. You know about that? Enjoying shared interests? I sometimes read the articles on the main site, sometimes not.

How about you? You like hanging around with people you think are assholes. What was that about pathetic?
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post #134 of 235
Have you actually used one?

I live in Australia, home of the highest skin cancer rates on Earth due in part to the brightness of our sunshine, and have no issues with seeing the keyboard on an iPhone in direct sunlight especially as the 3GS with it's oleo-phobic coating is slightly matte.

Any reports on how Verizon phones held up at CES?

You see we have good networks here and don't have the issues that some AT&T customers complain of, however in places like central Sydney on New Years Eve (crowd of one and a half million) all the networks suffer from congestion issues at midnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjpoblam View Post

And I sense there has been some case of taking the low road rather than a side. But, of course, the bottom may be said to be one of the sides of the whole of any solid. Such as the issues at hand.

I'm not convinced that AT&T is up to snuff as a provider of adequate PHONE service. I think that was well proved at CES. I think it has been proved where I live.

I think, further, the i*Phone has poor voice quality, is difficult to hear, and the glossy keyboard is difficult to see, for purposes of dialign, in bright light.

Hence, the i*Phone* has very basic flaws as a phone. I apologize for having offended you or raised your hackles, and will say no more.
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post #135 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I live in Australia, home of the highest skin cancer rates on Earth due in part to the brightness of our sunshine, and have no issues with seeing the keyboard on an iPhone in direct sunlight especially as the 3GS with it's oleo-phobic coating is slightly matte.

NZ has slighly higher rates than Aussie, and it isn't the brightness causing it, it is the UV levels, exposure, and population type.
post #136 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I enjoy talking about Apple stuff on a forum of like minded people, because it's an interest of mine. You know about that? Enjoying shared interests? I sometimes read the articles on the main site, sometimes not.

How about you? You like hanging around with people you think are assholes. What was that about pathetic?

i wish i could speak so fine

great post

you nailed this dude to the floor

peace

9
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post #137 of 235
Addabox, it's simpler than you might think. "Leveraging Google Voice" just means using it and to your own advantage. It's integrated so you don't know it's there. Without a corp discount, my plan is $54; not a huge difference, but still considerable over 2 years.

The ability to use GV is left out of the comparison, which skews things. Without it, Verizon and ATT are equally priced, but in fact they are not at all.

No managing calls, not any more than you would manage yours on ATT. Sounds like there may be some confusion about rotating phones. All I'm saying is, when a call comes in, you can pick up whatever phone is convenient. If you have a headset at work and cordless phones all over the house, you could pick them up instead of your cell. There's value in this for me, having this option.

Even the smallest companies can get a discounted rate. It's not reserved for a large corporations. Anyone not on a corp discount should talk to their employer and make it happen, whether it's ATT or Verizon or the others.

I know quite a few people paying $80-110/mo for a phone with ATT and they are sometimes surprised to hear what Verizon has for much less after adding up SMS, navigation and a high-minute or unlimited-minute plan.

Don't get me wrong, the iPhone as a device is spectacular, but the other parts I described are not. I hope Android will bring enough to the table to make Apple rethink their strategy and become more user friendly. Forbidding their users from taking advantage of certain apps seems crazy to me. It should be a basic liberty. I have a feeling a lot of things will change this summer.

Cheers!


Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That is some pretty damn strenuous math to get your massive savings over AT&T and the iPhone.

You asked "Show me an iphone with multitasking, tethering, and premium Google apps on Verizon where I can continue paying $50/mo for unlimited everything and I'll be first in line", but to get to the "$50/mo for unlimited everything" figure you have to "leverage Google Voice", get some kind of corporate discount, manage your incoming calls, and apparently rotated phones in and out of the mix.

On Verizon's site they list the 1400 minute family plan as going for $120/mo. That's the point of comparison, not whatever $50/mo deal you may be getting via whatever discounts are available to you. The rest is just hand waving. At 1400 minutes I'll wager for most people GV doesn't even enter into it, you just use your minutes.

I also just idly wonder what bullet point the anti-Apple crowd will add to their little lists when Apple includes multi-tasking in 4.0? It's a constantly evolving thing, the stuff that reflexively and mindlessly gets included in each and every anti-iPhone screed. Used to be cut and paste and video, now its tethering and multi-tasking. After that I imagine it will be OLED, resolution and some new thing, because you always have to have at least three things in your list to be "serious."
post #138 of 235
That has nothing directly to do with mobile carrier pricing, you simply aren't using your minutes. You could do this on the iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

By leveraging Google Voice (GV), no SMS plan is required. Text all you want over the data channel, which we pay $30/mo for.

With GV, all outbound calls are Friends & Family calls and therefore unlimited. I say 'essentially' because inbound calls during peak hours not from Friends/family or other Verizon callers would count against 1400 minutes. However, if you start to run out, you can quickly and temporarily change GV to show your GV number on caller ID so that inbound calls do not count against 1400 minutes. Even with 5 chatty people on my Verizon plan, I've never gone over 400 minutes used.

So, essentially, minutes are unlimited.
post #139 of 235
Not sure I understand you. Yes, you can try to use GV for inbound calls, but for outbound it is awkward and impractical without the integrated app. It just doesn't work and that's just the way Apple wants it.

Secondly, there is no Friends/family calling option on ATT to use in conjunction with GV. This is where the savings comes from allowing you not to use minutes. All outbound calls go through GV (transparent when using the standard dialer/phonebook), which is a F&F number.

Lastly, there is no GV app to allow you to skip the SMS plan.

So, no you can't do this on the iphone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

That has nothing directly to do with mobile carrier pricing, you simply aren't using your minutes. You could do this on the iPhone.
post #140 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by csimmons View Post

I thought it was very objective, and spot on as well (as Prince McLean / Daniel Eran Dilger's articles usually are).

WTF!? Prince's articles are always strongly biased.
post #141 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The iPhone represents a certain standard in the complete User Experience. This includes service and support, which is just as important as what happens from the time the user picks up the device to the time they execute an action on it. Apple pays close attention to both of these factors. If the competition can't live up to Apple's standards in these areas, they've got a big problem. And having a slight edge in raw specs is just not going to cut it.

I wouldn't call it complete. It has too many limitations to be considered complete, though, what it does offer is quite nice (which is why I still have it). Most disappointing thing is that limitations are not enforced by phone design (except, maybe, poor reception) but by Apple's philosophy...
post #142 of 235
Google Voice isn't the only option for making calls and texts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

Not sure I understand you. Yes, you can try to use GV for inbound calls, but for outbound it is awkward and impractical without the integrated app. It just doesn't work and that's just the way Apple wants it.

Secondly, there is no Friends/family calling option on ATT to use in conjunction with GV. This is where the savings comes from allowing you not to use minutes. All outbound calls go through GV (transparent when using the standard dialer/phonebook), which is a F&F number.

Lastly, there is no GV app to allow you to skip the SMS plan.

So, no you can't do this on the iphone.
post #143 of 235
Who cares about Google Voice it isn't available here, I even installed it on an HTC Magic and Google doesn't let me use it as I'm outside the US, an example of how Google CLOSES the platform,

Google also cracked down on people in Europe who hacked the maps application to get voice guidance outside the US SO MUCH FOR AN "OPEN" PLATFORM

GOOGLE LOCKS DOWN ANDROID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

Not sure I understand you. Yes, you can try to use GV for inbound calls, but for outbound it is awkward and impractical without the integrated app. It just doesn't work and that's just the way Apple wants it.

Secondly, there is no Friends/family calling option on ATT to use in conjunction with GV. This is where the savings comes from allowing you not to use minutes. All outbound calls go through GV (transparent when using the standard dialer/phonebook), which is a F&F number.

Lastly, there is no GV app to allow you to skip the SMS plan.

So, no you can't do this on the iphone.
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post #144 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Those that cant see how bad this will get need to reevaluate the situation. Android in and of itself isnt bad, but this is a problem.


\\

Is the problem worse than the fragmentation of "PC-compatible" computers in the early 1990's?

Back then, folks were used to looking to see whether software was compatible with their hardware. Indeed, they upgraded hardware in order to use the coolest, newest software.

Are things different now? Why would it be a problem for someone, say, without a GPS unit in their phone to avoid GPS apps? Or to avoid an app that needs 800x480 resolution if their phone only does 480x320? Or for the developer to make a screen that scales to varying resolutions?

I can see that identical hardware is optimal. But I cannot see that fragmentation is fatal.
post #145 of 235
I haven't read through this thread yet but I thought I'd share an experience I had over the weekend. I was watching a football game with a group of people and this guy started talking about how he was going to get a Google Nexus and another guy who has an iPhone said "well, it's not an iPhone." The Nexus fan said it's got all the same stuff - at this point I decided to interject. I told him they don't have the apps. He told that "droid network" has all the exact same apps except the ones made by Apple. I told him that wasn't right and he said they have 99.9% of the exact same apps "because it's open." At this point he was visibly agitated so I just let him go on believing since he didn't seem to care what I had to say and betting him (and winning of course) wouldn't have been worth the trouble because he'd get even more upset.

Anyway, I point all this out because apparently the advertising for this is pretty impressive. they've got 16k vs 125k and yet they make people think that "open" = "all the same apps." Do they say that explicitly? Well, no, of course not. But do they encourage people to think that's the case? Absolutely. Most people haven't a clue in the world what being open entails and so they believe that just means they can get everything out there no matter what because it's open. What makes it all worse is this guy works in IT and he still thinks all of that...
post #146 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


Anyway, I point all this out because apparently the advertising for this is pretty impressive. they've got 16k vs 125k and yet they make people think that "open" = "all the same apps." Do they say that explicitly? Well, no, of course not. But do they encourage people to think that's the case? Absolutely. Most people haven't a clue in the world what being open entails and so they believe that just means they can get everything out there no matter what because it's open. What makes it all worse is this guy works in IT and he still thinks all of that...

If I switch to Android, which "must-have" apps will I have to give up? Specifically, which ones are unavailable on Android?

The other way around, of course, both Google Navigation and Google Voice are glaring iPhone omissions. Which killer iPhone apps are missing on Android?
post #147 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

If I switch to Android, which "must-have" apps will I have to give up? Specifically, which ones are unavailable on Android?

The other way around, of course, both Google Navigation and Google Voice are glaring iPhone omissions. Which killer iPhone apps are missing on Android?

Slingplayer, Madden, FIFA, HR Battle, Biggest Brain and that's just for me.

You make an interesting argument however. It's basically the same argument AT&T is making. Who care about the places 3G doesn't exist if you don't live here. Who cares about the apps you don't use just so long as the ones you think you want are available.

There's over 100k apps that are unavailable on the Android network - I'm about 100% sure that you're going to be missing out on apps that you would find very useful and/or enjoyable. But then again ignorance is bliss so if you've never used any of those apps on the iPhone you won't realize you miss them because you never had them...
post #148 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Slingplayer, Madden, FIFA, HR Battle, Biggest Brain and that's just for me.

You make an interesting argument however. It's basically the same argument AT&T is making. Who care about the places 3G doesn't exist if you don't live here. Who cares about the apps you don't use just so long as the ones you think you want are available.

There's over 100k apps that are unavailable on the Android network - I'm about 100% sure that you're going to be missing out on apps that you would find very useful and/or enjoyable. But then again ignorance is bliss so if you've never used any of those apps on the iPhone you won't realize you miss them because you never had them...

I was sincere, and if your list is accurate, it looks like nobody will miss much.

My question was whether any worthwhile apps are missing. Your response was to list stuff few folks care about, and then to repeat guess that that folks will miss out on useful apps.

Sure - every platform has apps that are missing on others. For example, Windows has hundreds of thousands of applications that the Mac will never see. The usual response is that the number of Mac apps are adequate for nearly all tasks.

So I ask again - What "must-have" or "killer" apps are missing from Android? If there are significant omissions, then Android is less useful.
post #149 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I was sincere, and if your list is accurate, it looks like nobody will miss much.

My question was whether any worthwhile apps are missing. Your response was to list stuff few folks care about, and then to repeat guess that that folks will miss out on useful apps.

Sure - every platform has apps that are missing on others. For example, Windows has hundreds of thousands of applications that the Mac will never see. The usual response is that the number of Mac apps are adequate for nearly all tasks.

So I ask again - What "must-have" or "killer" apps are missing from Android? If there are significant omissions, then Android is less useful.

This has been discussed elsewhere. Handsets are even more "personal" than personal computers, apps are likely to be much more a matter of individual utility. While the average desktop is pretty well served by office suite, email, browser, calender and a few more, phone users are going to be running (and relying on) all kinds of converters, language programs, specialized knowledge databases, location aware services, etc.-- for the simple fact that something you keep on your person as you walk around has more utility unique to your self than a device that stays on your desk or in a bag.

So while the first 50% or so of "core" apps are likely to be similar on a lot of phones, thereafter they diverge rapidly.

So no one can say if apps that you would find killer or key or necessary are available for Android or not, because that would depend on you. If you're content with just having the same "major" apps as everyone else, and don't imagine that you'll ever go looking for specialized solutions to your particular needs, then you probably won't miss the vast array of additional options available for the iPhone. If you're not into biking, for instance, and don't need or care about bike centric apps, no problem.

The problem is, of course, that everybody has at least some "narrow" interests, beyond messaging and looking at maps and browsing, and having lots more apps available means your that more likely to find something tailored to your needs. But I guess Android users find "individual needs" to be gay?
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post #150 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

This has been discussed elsewhere. Handsets are even more "personal" than personal computers, apps are likely to be much more a matter of individual utility. While the average desktop is pretty well served by office suite, email, browser, calender and a few more, phone users are going to be running (and relying on) all kinds of converters, language programs, specialized knowledge databases, location aware services, etc.-- for the simple fact that something you keep on your person as you walk around has more utility unique to your self than a device that stays on your desk or in a bag.

So while the first 50% or so of "core" apps are likely to be similar on a lot of phones, thereafter they diverge rapidly.

So no one can say if apps that you would find killer or key or necessary are available for Android or not, because that would depend on you. If you're content with just having the same "major" apps as everyone else, and don't imagine that you'll ever go looking for specialized solutions to your particular needs, then you probably won't miss the vast array of additional options available for the iPhone. If you're not into biking, for instance, and don't need or care about bike centric apps, no problem.

The problem is, of course, that everybody has at least some "narrow" interests, beyond messaging and looking at maps and browsing, and having lots more apps available means your that more likely to find something tailored to your needs. But I guess Android users find "individual needs" to be gay?

That's what I was trying to point out as well. My list of apps that I really enjoy are different than adda's and it's different from sol's etc etc. You could take 30 iPhones and compare all the apps on each one and I'd bet there'd be only a select few that were on all of them (if any!). That's what happens when you have options and choices. If you're happy with what's on Android then that's great. If you think Android has all the apps you want then, again, that's great. But saying that 16k apps is just as good as 125k apps - that's just kidding yourself (and for owners it's like they are trying to justify their purchase to others rather than just being happy with what they have).
post #151 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I enjoy talking about Apple stuff on a forum of like minded people, because it's an interest of mine. You know about that? Enjoying shared interests? I sometimes read the articles on the main site, sometimes not.

How about you? You like hanging around with people you think are assholes. What was that about pathetic?

My point was about the article, not the people reading it (assholes or not). If every article (or perhaps it would just be easier to call them advertisements) hollowly praises Apple, what purpose does it serve? If the "articles" aren't actually going to serve a purpose or provide useful information, why not just simply turn this completely into a forum and skip the bullshit of calling this a "news" site (yes, it does still classify as a news site)?

I'm interested in tech news, Apple included, which this site used to provide on a regular basis. But now it only provides real news on limited occasion with much of the content being reduced to heavily slanted opinion pieces declaring how everything Apple does is great and how everything company X (whoever is even vaguely competing with Apple) is crap. If that's all you're interested in reading, then yes, YOU are pathetic (and maybe even an asshole).
post #152 of 235
This is classic Prince posting at its worst: waffly, overlong, inaccurate, and failing to actually get to the point.

Just a few of the bits which made me roll my eyes:

Quote:
"It's therefore nothing out of the ordinary that the newly released Nexus One running Android 2.1 is also being sold under other HTC names in other markets."

- HTC isn't currently selling the Nexus One under any other name in any other market. Passion was its codename, and it's also known as the Bravo.

Quote:
"With Android 2.1 however, Google seems to be signaling the intention to fold in many of HTC's Sense improvements into the standard OS, which should help streamline the platform at the expense of HTC's differentiation."

- This is just incorrect. The interface on Nexus One is stock 2.1, with nothing from Sense UI. Even a glance at something like an HTC Hero next to a Nexus One would show this.

Quote:
"That indicates that despite its shift from Windows Mobile, HTC isn't betting its future on Android. Additionally, it shows that Android itself doesn't do enough to allow phone makers to hit low price points. Successful Android phones require a fast processor and significant RAM and other system resources to be taken seriously."

- This is a non sequitur. Android doesn't need a "fast" processor, any more than iPhone OS X does. You can see this from looking at the performance of the aforementioned HTC Hero, which is slick (unless you bog it down running a dozen apps at the same time, of course - but even a "fast" processor will bog down then.)

Quote:
"Finding one operating system to span from the bargain bin to the high end has similarly been a challenge for Nokia, which uses its own simple Nokia OS..."

- There is no such thing as "Nokia OS". You must mean Series 40 (or S40 for short).

Quote:
"The company has also announced a clear intention to turn its hardware partners into commodity manufacturers, leaving Google with control of all the value across their products, much as Microsoft did to PC makers in the 90s. This is all a precarious balancing act challenge Apple doesn't face."

- Where has it announced this? Don't bother looking - the answer is "nowhere". You might mean that one way to interpret the existence of Nexus One is that it's reducing its reliance on hardware partners, but it hasn't "announced" anything.

Quote:
"One would expect that the very latest Android phone using the most advanced ARM processor available would perform significantly better than last summer's iPhone 3GS and just narrowly better than the Droid... This indicates that Apple's software provides significant performance optimization, something that last year's Palm Pre also demonstrated."

- No, it could equally well indicate that other parts of the Nexus' hardware hold its performance back. Unless you have a Droid running 2.1 (which I doubt) you don't know enough to conclude what the performance problem (if there is one) is.

I kind-of stopped reading in detail at that point, but from what I read it just deteriorated into a jumbled list of "reasons why the iPhone is better" (because a proprietary dock connector is better than USB? WTF?).

EDIT: There are plenty of good reasons why the iPhone is currently superior to anthing running Android, but you won't find them in Prince's article. Have a look at Danny Sullivan's piece, for one, on why the rough edges of Android make it harder to use.
post #153 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Who cares about Google Voice it isn't available here, I even installed it on an HTC Magic and Google doesn't let me use it as I'm outside the US, an example of how Google CLOSES the platform,

Google also cracked down on people in Europe who hacked the maps application to get voice guidance outside the US SO MUCH FOR AN "OPEN" PLATFORM

GOOGLE LOCKS DOWN ANDROID.

Umm... you do know that an application isn't part of the operating system, don't you? I mean - you do know the difference between an OS and an App?

I'm no fan of Android, but even I understand that you can run closed source apps on top of an open source OS.
post #154 of 235
Teno, please go on. Tell me how Google Voice's functions are duplicated by other iphone apps. I'm being sincere. Is there a way to receive sms via the data channel with some type of push notification? Is there a way to dial out without having to take extra steps to use GV or some other calling platform? There's a lot I don't know. Help me out.

Having GV integrated into the phone/dialer means you just go about your business. Make/receive calls, send/receive text messages. At the end of the month, you're still on the lowest F&F calling plan and no charge for SMS.

This is what Google brings to Verizon customers. I don't see Apple making the same effort..... yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Google Voice isn't the only option for making calls and texts.
post #155 of 235
Google Voice is not the first nor the only alternative service for sending/receiving voice and text. Yes there are others available for the iPhone, they all have their pluses and minuses. One major plus is being able to use the service outside of the United States. But I don't see the point in listing them all.

If you wish to believe that Google Voice is the epitome, then feel free.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

Teno, please go on. Tell me how Google Voice's functions are duplicated by other iphone apps. I'm being sincere. Is there a way to receive sms via the data channel with some type of push notification? Is there a way to dial out without having to take extra steps to use GV or some other calling platform? There's a lot I don't know. Help me out.

Having GV integrated into the phone/dialer means you just go about your business. Make/receive calls, send/receive text messages. At the end of the month, you're still on the lowest F&F calling plan and no charge for SMS.

This is what Google brings to Verizon customers. I don't see Apple making the same effort..... yet.
post #156 of 235
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/10/0...in.net+News%29

Nexus One doesn't seem to like 3G

Many reports have been coming in pertaining to the Nexus One's 3G reception issue. You can see in the image below that the phone is running on EDGE, while the G1, right next to it, seems to have a strong 3G signal. T-Mobile USA has made an official statement saying that they, along with Google, are investigating the issue and hope to have more information soon. In the meantime, many Nexus One-ers are forced to deal with EDGE as their phone's signal of choice.

Gizmodo posted the results of a test conducted by one of its users. The test seems to have isolated the issue to a software glitch. He concludes that since, in his tests, the phone was able to find and receive all ranges of signals (both 3G and EDGE), the problem must be in the way the phone handles them. For some reason, the software seems to prefer EDGE most of the time, regardless of signal strength.

Below is a temporary solution that the user found. For those who can't stand the slowness of their EDGE connections, this may be worth trying. The only problem with the fix is that when you do actually leave 3G coverage, you won't automatically fall back onto EDGE. You'll have to go and change the settings manually.

"OK. I found 'Phone Info' screen through 'Any Cut'. This looks like a screen not intended for average users. It clearly has settings that should not be messed with. However, it does have a pull down menu that was set to 'WCDMA Preferred'. I changed this to 'WCDMA Only'. The phone reset, and never again saw the f'ing 'E' on the signal indicator- ALL 3G. After about 1/2 hour of speed tests (150k - 800kbps) and google satellite map downloads (all definitely faster), I switched back to 'WCDMA Preferred'. Guess what? After a few minutes, I was back on EDGE, even with a good signal. Switched back to 'WCDMA Only', and 3G it remains."

If it is, indeed, a software problem, perhaps Android 2.1 isn't ready for prime-time, just yet. One would think that Google's internal testing of the phone (called 'dogfooding') would have caught such a big issue, before the phone was released to the public. Even so, an simple software update could, potentially, be rolled out, over-the-air, to fix the glitch. It will be interesting to see if the problem falls on Google's shoulders, or if T-Mobile will have to get their hands dirty. Being that the problem seems software related, T-Mobile will probably be off the hook. This would create another problem, as it leaves customers to deal with Google's, nearly non-existent, customer support. Users are reporting that Google is only offering support via email, and that responses are received within 2 days.
post #157 of 235
This is a great question. With my iPod touch, I'm regularly looking for new apps and games being that it's my game player and alarm clock, primarily. I've yet to find the killer app not found or duplicated on Android, but there are legitimate reasons why the iphone is the current king. It comes down to marketing, look & feel, simplistic interface, cult of mac and the fact they innovated the app store model. Let's not forget itunes integration either.

Today, there is a rich set of apps and huge iphone customer base. The app store grew quickly from 10,000 to 100,000 apps. I've read that Apple reached 10,000 apps on Nov 28, 2008. They were growing quickly, but not as fast as Android is today. The fact is, the total market for android software is big enough now to attract major efforts similar to the console game market with Xbox, Wii and PS3 where it's hard to find a great game that is exclusive to one. The point being, at a certain point the App race is over and it's within view.

For the time being, the App Store is 8 to 10 times larger, but very few will ever see the bottom 99.9% so it's really the top 0.1% of apps that matter. Compare this to Android's top 1% and the difference is minimal with the gap closing. Looking beyond, I see Coke and Pepsi, Avis and Hertz, Ford and Chevy, and iphone and Android. One will never eliminate the other.

The connected handset is a device and a utility with signs of a religion that make each ecosystem unique. My decision today is based on the philosophy google has chosen. Apple's path of hand picking apps that limit users' freedom and cost them more is what keeps me away. In return, I forgo the sleeker UI and more plentiful applications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I was sincere, and if your list is accurate, it looks like nobody will miss much.

My question was whether any worthwhile apps are missing. Your response was to list stuff few folks care about, and then to repeat guess that that folks will miss out on useful apps.

Sure - every platform has apps that are missing on others. For example, Windows has hundreds of thousands of applications that the Mac will never see. The usual response is that the number of Mac apps are adequate for nearly all tasks.

So I ask again - What "must-have" or "killer" apps are missing from Android? If there are significant omissions, then Android is less useful.
post #158 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

If you think Android has all the apps you want then, again, that's great. But saying that 16k apps is just as good as 125k apps - that's just kidding yourself (and for owners it's like they are trying to justify their purchase to others rather than just being happy with what they have).

I'm not saying that. But I might be persuaded to say that for 90% of users, 16,000 is 99% as good.


And isn't that exactly what Mac users have been saying for decades about the (relative) scarcity of Mac software?

To paraphrase you: "If you think that the [Mac] has all the applictions you want then, again, that's great. But saying that [many fewer Mac] apps is just as good as [many more Windows] apps - that's just kidding yourself..."
post #159 of 235
I made a simple claim that GV functionality cannot be duplicated with other apps. You counter, but never explain. I know of other IM apps like AIM and there are GV calling workarounds, but they really don't stand up. That's like me saying android has a music player just like itunes. Yes, it plays songs and playlists.

GV has the potential to save people 25 to 50% on their cell bill, cut it in half! This is real money, not to be overlooked. More with Navigation, more with background location services.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Google Voice is not the first nor the only alternative service for sending/receiving voice and text. Yes there are others available for the iPhone, they all have their pluses and minuses. One major plus is being able to use the service outside of the United States. But I don't see the point in listing them all.

If you wish to believe that Google Voice is the epitome, then feel free.
post #160 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

While the average desktop is pretty well served by office suite, email, browser, calender and a few more,

Here we agree. These apps originally made the Palm Pilot great, and were included on the original iPhone, a runaway seller. With nothing more, most folks were happy.

Indeed, most smartphone users still choose a Blackberry, which has available little more than what was listed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

phone users are going to be running (and relying on) all kinds of converters, language programs, specialized knowledge databases, location aware services, etc.-- for the simple fact that something you keep on your person as you walk around has more utility unique to your self than a device that stays on your desk or in a bag.

But that begs the question, as you assume that important examples are unavailable on Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So while the first 50% or so of "core" apps are likely to be similar on a lot of phones, thereafter they diverge rapidly.

Here's where you started making stuff up. You have no basis for the 50% you cite.

I can guess too: 90% or so of "core" apps are likely to be similar on a lot of phones. The vast majority of folks will find that everything they might want or need is included within the 16,000 Android apps.




Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So no one can say if apps that you would find killer or key or necessary are available for Android or not, because that would depend on you.

And yet, are you comfortable saying that lots of folks will find killer or necessary or key apps are UNavailable on Android?


Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If you're content with just having the same "major" apps as everyone else, and don't imagine that you'll ever go looking for specialized solutions to your particular needs, then you probably won't miss the vast array of additional options available for the iPhone. If you're not into biking, for instance, and don't need or care about bike centric apps, no problem.

Once again you beg the question by assuming that these apps ARE available on the iPhone and are NOT avilable on Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But I guess Android users find "individual needs" to be gay?

Stop guessing. You get yourself into trouble.
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