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Blu-ray vs. every other consumer technology (2010) - Page 5

post #161 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Really?... Interesting, I would've thought the announce would have been out in the avsforum first.

Maybe you should look back a few years ago when the media talked about it.
post #162 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Maybe you should look back a few years ago when the media talked about it.

Few years ago when Sony launched PS3? If the media were to quote Sony, they've always said it like it was their wet dream. Even from inception of BD, hardware penetration rate was claimed to exceed any other media technology in the history due to PS3 being the best, one and only, BD player at the time. (This is only partially true in the marketing sense, if you care to find the truth. At this time, majority of BD discs made required joystick with vibration module for full experience.)

Is this what you're recollecting?

I hope you're old enough to use your discretion in finding the truth from what you're able to read online.
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post #163 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Few years ago when Sony launched PS3? If the media were to quote Sony, they've always said it like it was their wet dream. Even from inception of BD, hardware penetration rate was claimed to exceed any other media technology in the history due to PS3 being the best, one and only, BD player at the time. (This is only partially true in the marketing sense, if you care to find the truth. At this time, majority of BD discs made required joystick with vibration module for full experience.)

NO, a few years ago when the statistic was announced, it wasn't Sony who announced it.

Also, try and remember Sony <> Blu-ray.

Also, the PS3 couldn't have been the "one and only" blu-ray player of the time, well except if you are going by an old Sony market slogan, Samsung releases the first player.

And regarding the bit about the joystick, unless this is a new kids joke, sorry I don't know what you are talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Is this what you're recollecting?

As I have said, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I hope you're old enough to use your discretion in finding the truth from what you're able to read online.

Yes I am, that is why I am here trying to correct things misread.
post #164 of 421
It amazes me that this is still an issue. It amazes me that the new MacBook Pros have 10 year old technology, the SuperDrive (are you kidding? A DVD-RW drive?) Here in Warsaw, in every electronics store (much like your big box Best Buys, etc) every laptop I saw in the shop had BluRay. Every TV in the shop is HD. The TV that came with my furnished apartment is HD. Even the screen on my MacBook Pro is HD (1920 x 1200 - fully capable of displaying 1080p movies) and SD DVDs or iTunes so-called HD looks bad. It looks worse on the TV.

In the shops, I walkd over to the DVD secition and all new releases are available in BluRay. And they were selling. The conversion to BluRay is well on its way. Upscaled SD media looks bad on HD monitors and I am amazed that Apple isn't with it. I'm less surprised that the faithful fans are rationalizing excuses. Stream or download a 1080p 2 or 3 hour movie? Right. On 4 Mb/s? I can walk down to the video store and rent a BluRay movie and be back in 15 minutes. It would take days and days to download a true HD movie and that's assuming the internet isn't throttled back on big downloads (it is).

BluRay is here, NOW. It's not next year's new thing. Apple offers only yesterday's technology when it comes to optical drives. At least I can use Windows and PowerDVD (running on the MacBook) and my external slot loading BluRay player to watch BluRay on my Mac, much like I use Windows for gaming on my Mac.

It will be time to upgrade to a new laptop next year and I very much doubt I'll buy a new MacBook Pro if it still has that old "SuperDrive".
post #165 of 421
Has Blu-Ray's DRM been completely defeated?

I noticed that the new MacFriendly bundle includes a copy of MacBlurayRipper Pro.

Haven't been paying attention for months, so I didn't realize that Blu-Ray rippers were so widely available.
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post #166 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Has Blu-Ray's DRM been completely defeated?

Blu-ray DRM was circumvented almost immediately. Fox rolled out a new DRM scheme with Avatar, and it was cracked in 12 hours. It's all just a big waste of time for device manufacturers and consumers who need to wait for firmware updates.
post #167 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-ray DRM was circumvented almost immediately. Fox rolled out a new DRM scheme with Avatar, and it was cracked in 12 hours. It's all just a big waste of time for device manufacturers and consumers who need to wait for firmware updates.

This very is one of the big pain using HTPC for blu-ray playback. I use AnyDVD for such job because they're much quicker than Cyberlink on the DRM crack/update.

I am close to investing on a new Denon universal player and I wonder how this DRM BS will iron out, knowing Denon not being one of most prompt firmware updater, when the DRM BS continues on.
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post #168 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJedi View Post

It amazes me that this is still an issue. It amazes me that the new MacBook Pros have 10 year old technology, the SuperDrive (are you kidding? A DVD-RW drive?) Here in Warsaw, in every electronics store (much like your big box Best Buys, etc) every laptop I saw in the shop had BluRay. Every TV in the shop is HD. The TV that came with my furnished apartment is HD. Even the screen on my MacBook Pro is HD (1920 x 1200 - fully capable of displaying 1080p movies) and SD DVDs or iTunes so-called HD looks bad. It looks worse on the TV.

In the shops, I walkd over to the DVD secition and all new releases are available in BluRay. And they were selling. The conversion to BluRay is well on its way. Upscaled SD media looks bad on HD monitors and I am amazed that Apple isn't with it. I'm less surprised that the faithful fans are rationalizing excuses. Stream or download a 1080p 2 or 3 hour movie? Right. On 4 Mb/s? I can walk down to the video store and rent a BluRay movie and be back in 15 minutes. It would take days and days to download a true HD movie and that's assuming the internet isn't throttled back on big downloads (it is).

BluRay is here, NOW. It's not next year's new thing. Apple offers only yesterday's technology when it comes to optical drives. At least I can use Windows and PowerDVD (running on the MacBook) and my external slot loading BluRay player to watch BluRay on my Mac, much like I use Windows for gaming on my Mac.

It will be time to upgrade to a new laptop next year and I very much doubt I'll buy a new MacBook Pro if it still has that old "SuperDrive".

I'm right with you on your frustration. Unfortunately, I'm not as optimistic with Apple products getting Blu-ray after watching Steve Jobs' D8 interview. In it he was touting Apple's past of adopting new technology, and then proceeded to tout how Apple was the first to stray away from "optical drives" with the MacBook Air which gave me an uneasy feeling that ol' Steve had no plans whatsoever in supporting Blu-ray "optical drives" anytime soon.

I think it sucks, but I think the market may eventually force their hand...at least in a BTO option because this is getting ridiculous.
post #169 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

I'm right with you on your frustration. Unfortunately, I'm not as optimistic with Apple products getting Blu-ray after watching Steve Jobs' D8 interview. In it he was touting Apple's past of adopting new technology, and then proceeded to tout how Apple was the first to stray away from "optical drives" with the MacBook Air which gave me an uneasy feeling that ol' Steve had no plans whatsoever in supporting Blu-ray "optical drives" anytime soon.

Did he actually say that? There were notebooks available without optical drive for years before the MacBook Air was released.
post #170 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Did he actually say that? There were notebooks available without optical drive for years before the MacBook Air was released.

He did...but allow me to correct myself slightly, he stated that Apple was "one of the first" to take out optical drives. My point being, of course, that perhaps it is Apple's strategy not to have any optical drives in their future offerings...

http://video.allthingsd.com/video/d8...1-08C300E31E11

...you can see him state this right around the 5 minute mark.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong, but you never know with Steve. I for one want a Blu-ray drive in my Mac.
post #171 of 421
Some more good news for streaming today. Netflix will have access to Epix (channel) films 90 days after they're on Epix. This includes films from Viacom, MGM, and Lionsgate.

The selection could still be better, but its getting better everyday. I find myself slowly but surely shifting from blu-rays in the mail to streaming from their website. Depending on how diligent I've been in mailing movies back, that percentage bounces around week to week.

Read more about the Epix/Netflix deal here:
Arstechnica: Epix streaming deal for Netflix narrows streaming window
post #172 of 421
"Hollywood studios have begun to worry less about protecting DVD sales and more about protecting rental economics from the likes of Netflix and Redbox. While Netflix offers consumers unlimited DVD-by-mail rentals for as little as $8.99 a month, and Redbox rents DVDs for just $1 a day, VOD prices are typically $4.99 for a title in standard definition and $5.99 in HD."

"...consumers are showing less and less willingness to buy physical media. With the vast and growing proliferation of rental avenues, the importance of owning a DVD is dwindling. "



Studios Giving Up on DVD, Pushing VOD Instead
post #173 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

"...consumers are showing less and less willingness to buy physical media. With the vast and growing proliferation of rental avenues, the importance of owning a DVD is dwindling. "

I know what you mean, I used to purchase a couple of DVD's per week, but since I got a blu-ray player in 2007 I have only purchased around 6 DVD's
post #174 of 421
DVD-RW seems to be Apple's Rage128 of optical media. Longtime Mac users will know what that means.

Ironic, considering FCP edits 1080p footage, no?
post #175 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

DVD-RW seems to be Apple's Rage128 of optical media. Longtime Mac users will know what that means.

Ironic, considering FCP edits 1080p footage, no?

FCP can burn blu-rays. Just plug in a blu-ray drive and you're good to go.

But point taken. I've been looking to install a bag of hurt into my 27" imac for quite some time.
post #176 of 421
They are using DVD in the generic. They are saying consumers are buying less physical media altogether (including Blu-ray).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I know what you mean, I used to purchase a couple of DVD's per week, but since I got a blu-ray player in 2007 I have only purchased around 6 DVD's
post #177 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

"Hollywood studios have begun to worry less about protecting DVD sales and more about protecting rental economics from the likes of Netflix and Redbox. While Netflix offers consumers unlimited DVD-by-mail rentals for as little as $8.99 a month, and Redbox rents DVDs for just $1 a day, VOD prices are typically $4.99 for a title in standard definition and $5.99 in HD."

"...consumers are showing less and less willingness to buy physical media. With the vast and growing proliferation of rental avenues, the importance of owning a DVD is dwindling. "



Studios Giving Up on DVD, Pushing VOD Instead

If the studios are concerned about protecting the rental space from netflix and redbox they wouldn't be charging $6 per VOD rental. Sounds like bull to me. The day I can pay $15/mo for up to 8 HD VOD rentals, including new releases day and date with DVD/blu-ray, is the day we don't need physical media anymore. The studios have no interest in providing such a service, so physical media is in no danger of extinction.

CDs are still widely available today, despite a lack of reason to still exist for the past eight years. iTunes provided an alternative that was not only more convenient but also more economical. VOD is the former, but not the latter.
post #178 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

If the studios are concerned about protecting the rental space from netflix and redbox they wouldn't be charging $6 per VOD rental. Sounds like bull to me. The day I can pay $15/mo for up to 8 HD VOD rentals, including new releases day and date with DVD/blu-ray, is the day we don't need physical media anymore. The studios have no interest in providing such a service, so physical media is in no danger of extinction.

CDs are still widely available today, despite a lack of reason to still exist for the past eight years. iTunes provided an alternative that was not only more convenient but also more economical. VOD is the former, but not the latter.

Vinyl is still around too.

Perhaps a less extreme discussion is in order. Rather than focusing on if physical media is "in danger of extinction", it is more interesting to forecast and debate the possible timing of a transition such as happened with internet based music distribution.

Similarly, I think it is a bit extreme to say that the studios have no interest in providing various streaming services. A more accurate characterization would be that they are looking to maximize profits and they don't currently feel that your proposed streaming package would be as profitable. On the other hand, we have seen an explosion of streaming services in the last few years. I've got my fingers crossed that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that the studios won't drag their feet.
post #179 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

$6 per VOD rental.

I have never quite understood $6 VOD/PPV...so I've never purchased any. $3 I'd have done as it's worth $2 not to have to run to RedBox.
post #180 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

I have never quite understood $6 VOD/PPV...so I've never purchased any. $3 I'd have done as it's worth $2 not to have to run to RedBox.

The cost is supposed to be for the convenience factor, but it still seems pretty steep. I recognize they probably can't undercut Blockbuster, but as an entertainment option, I think it's being undercut pretty handily by Netflix, by mail and instant.
post #181 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

They are using DVD in the generic. They are saying consumers are buying less physical media altogether (including Blu-ray).

Actually Blu-ray sales are continuing to increase, DVD sales are the one that are dropping, dropping faster than Blu-ray is increasing, that is where your mis-use of the statistic comes in
post #182 of 421
Show of hands: How many people think the upcoming $99. Apple box will have a Blu-ray player?

I propose that we discard this thread three months early and start a Blu-ray vs. AppleTV (2011) thread.

Because you know that we're going to end up there anyway...
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post #183 of 421
$99 is so cheap that, if correct, it suggests that the hardware would have to be subsidized in some other way... perhaps via overpriced content.
post #184 of 421
If this goes on much longer, we're all going to need a "I survived the HD format wars and all I got were these lousy coasters" T-shirt. Owning gaming consoles meant that I was invested in Blu Ray just because I purchased a PS3 and it didn't take much convincing to pick up the HD-DVD add on for the 360 when it was still a viable format. I actually picked up most of my HD-DVDs for between $0.99 and $4.99 after Toshiba declared HD-DVD 'dead' and retailers were looking to offload the media while they still had a chance.

I don't remember the last time I purchased a Blu Ray movie. It would take a pretty big release to get me to purchase *any* movie at this point (especially at $24.99+ a pop) but the cost of the media is still prohibitive to me.

The prediction that Apple would start shipping Macs with Blu Ray drives has been around since they became available for Windows PCs. Predictions heated up when HD-DVD fizzled. But here we are 2.5 years after Toshiba conceded and over 4 years since Blu Ray movies started shipping and we still have no Macs shipping from Apple with these drives.

Lets see what Apple comes up with at this event on September 1, maybe we'll have a clearer picture then.
post #185 of 421
Blu-ray is rising from a very small number, DVD is dropping from a very high number. If Blu-ray were going to replace DVD, then why are studios focusing on VOD instead of Blu-ray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Actually Blu-ray sales are continuing to increase, DVD sales are the one that are dropping, dropping faster than Blu-ray is increasing, that is where your mis-use of the statistic comes in
post #186 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

$99 is so cheap that, if correct, it suggests that the hardware would have to be subsidized in some other way... perhaps via overpriced content.

Apple doesn't do loss leaders. Apple makes its money from the hardware not the content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

Lets see what Apple comes up with at this event on September 1, maybe we'll have a clearer picture then.

I guarantee you it won't have anything to do with physical media.
post #187 of 421
You are correct. People seem to make these types of debates all or nothing. Physical media is not going to disappear but it will not be as profitable as it once was. Studios are looking for what distribution method will make them the most money. They are not as emotionally attached to anyone thing as people are here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Similarly, I think it is a bit extreme to say that the studios have no interest in providing various streaming services. A more accurate characterization would be that they are looking to maximize profits and they don't currently feel that your proposed streaming package would be as profitable. On the other hand, we have seen an explosion of streaming services in the last few years. I've got my fingers crossed that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that the studios won't drag their feet.
post #188 of 421
Quote:
I guarantee you it won't have anything to do with physical media.

That's my guess as well, and I'm guessing it will justify Apple's position on Blu Ray (aka, supporting Blu Ray would cost them content on iTunes, etc).
post #189 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Blu-ray is rising from a very small number, DVD is dropping from a very high number. If Blu-ray were going to replace DVD, then why are studios focusing on VOD instead of Blu-ray?

They aren't focusing on it, they are using as one of these sales methods. If you think they are focusing on it, you are taking a rather myopic view of things.
post #190 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

I don't remember the last time I purchased a Blu Ray movie. It would take a pretty big release to get me to purchase *any* movie at this point (especially at $24.99+ a pop) but the cost of the media is still prohibitive to me.


A couple of small points, if the price is prohibitive to you, why don't you purchase the items when they are on special, they are priced at under $24.99 quite often.

If the cost of the media is prohibitive to you, I imagine you don't purchase or rent from iTunes either, especially since they cost the same, if not more than the DVD or Blu-ray version even though the digital download version has more restrictions than the physical media version.
post #191 of 421
I've seen lots of Blu-Rays of good movies at US$9.99, though not new releases.

Theatrical movies have something like six stages of roll-out for a movie, starting with the initial movie theater release, pay per view, second run theaters, premium channel airings and eventually ending in packaged home video (DVD, etc.). There are also occasional repricings as the movie is out on disc for a year or so. Video on demand seems to largely be primed to be a replacement for pay per view.
post #192 of 421
You should read the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

They aren't focusing on it, they are using as one of these sales methods. If you think they are focusing on it, you are taking a rather myopic view of things.
post #193 of 421
Quote:
A couple of small points, if the price is prohibitive to you, why don't you purchase the items when they are on special, they are priced at under $24.99 quite often.

Yes, when new release movies are on *sale* they can be around $25 a pop. But the list price for most new releases is $39.99. That seems excessive to me and therefore I just don't buy the movies.
post #194 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

Yes, when new release movies are on *sale* they can be around $25 a pop. But the list price for most new releases is $39.99. That seems excessive to me and therefore I just don't buy the movies.

I don't know how list price enters into the equation. List price isn't a relevant price in deciding what or whether to buy, it's the actual asking price. Many reputable web stores are about 40% off list price. I'm pretty sure the $40 list price is for the edition with digital copy or other bonus discs, I recall plenty list for $30 and sell for $20 new, and this is for new releases. Older releases can be had for less.
post #195 of 421
The original point I was responding to was that customers are buying less and less physical media, and I believe it is because the cost of the media is so high. I remember how my folks balked at DVDs initially because of the cost over VHS tapes of the same movie. Yes, DVDs were of a much higher quality but when people are used to spending a certain amount of money on a movie, it's a hard pill to swallow when you're paying double for a different type of media, despite any advances or special features that one type of media may have over another. After all, to most consumers, a movie is a movie. You would be hard pressed to get most people to tell you the difference between 1080p and 720p and most people would say a particular TV set is 'better' because it has the brightness turned up a little higher than the set next to it.

The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark. I'm sure there are people out there that don't even blink at those prices (or even the list prices) but for me, it would have to be one of my favorite movies of all time to justify spending that kind of money, quality be damned.
post #196 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark.

The thing is, your price impressions still seem to be a little out of date, there are movies at those prices, but I don't think it represents current prices. This week's Best Buy weekly circular has sale prices of $10, $15, $20, $25 and $30. And I'm not counting the two $8 discs that look like they might be straight-to-video flicks. Sam's club and Amazon have a lot of movies under $20 at regular price, I've seen plenty of old blockbusters at Sam's for $10 a piece.

Also keep in mind that while DVD started high, the prices gradually went down. Blu-Ray started at roughly the same price brackets DVD did, and those prices seem to be going down quicker than DVD did. I was a DVD early adopter, and I remember how prices were and I've watched how they've declined.

In all fairness, I don't buy many discs anymore, I've been mostly renting movies though Netflix as I've been finding that I generally only watch things once and they sit on the shelf for years before ever getting watched again, if ever.
post #197 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You should read the article.

I read it the other day when you posted it. The studios have always had a variety of different methods of selling their products, now they have more. They are trying to protect all their sales by having their products available anywhere, this isn't new.

I'm sure some people really enjoy VOD, personally I can't use it, there isn't a cable service available where I live, and to get it via Satellite requires me subscribing to Sky TV to pay NZ$50 for 40 channels, no thanks. So until digital downloads get to a quality that is acceptable to me, I will continue to rent, and purchase Blu-ray movies.
post #198 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

The original point I was responding to was that customers are buying less and less physical media, and I believe it is because the cost of the media is so high. I remember how my folks balked at DVDs initially because of the cost over VHS tapes of the same movie. Yes, DVDs were of a much higher quality but when people are used to spending a certain amount of money on a movie, it's a hard pill to swallow when you're paying double for a different type of media, despite any advances or special features that one type of media may have over another. After all, to most consumers, a movie is a movie. You would be hard pressed to get most people to tell you the difference between 1080p and 720p and most people would say a particular TV set is 'better' because it has the brightness turned up a little higher than the set next to it.


Why do you raise the difference between 1080p and 720p? The last time I looked DVD was only 480p in the US, now there is a big difference between 480p and 720p, or 1080p.

Now you must live in a funny place, I hardly purchased any VHS movies, they were too expensive, I started purchasing DVDs though, as the quality was better, and the price was cheaper. When I got my first Blu-ray player, I started purchasing Blu-ray movies as the quality was so much better than DVD, and the price was so close (I must admit I purchased a tonne of movies in the Buy one get one free sales), and the price is still close. If you purchase things at list price, or only ever look at list price than that is your fault, shop around and purchase things when they are cheap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

The same concept of DVD vs. VHS rings true for Blu-Ray discs today. When you're used to paying $12-$15 for a new copy of a movie on DVD, paying $25-$30 for a copy of a movie on Blu Ray (when it is on sale) puts it into a different ballpark. I'm sure there are people out there that don't even blink at those prices (or even the list prices) but for me, it would have to be one of my favorite movies of all time to justify spending that kind of money, quality be damned.

So you are comparing a sale of one product, to the full price of another? Hmm, like I said, purchase things on sale if you don't like the price. And I take it you don't purchase from the iTunes store? It is more expensive than physical media, and you have more restrictions place on you, they don't have the Amazon type sales (well until you can purchase some vouchers on sale), it is difficult for most users to purchase iTunes movies from another country. Using your logic, DVD's are here to stay.
post #199 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

In all fairness, I don't buy many discs anymore, I've been mostly renting movies though Netflix as I've been finding that I generally only watch things once and they sit on the shelf for years before ever getting watched again, if ever.

Yup, this is what I generally hear from younger kids these days. Most of these kids also believe downloading/streaming free on lesser picture quality is also fine. However, since they do subscribe to Netflix, I am guessing the majority of their movie streaming must be legal.

The movie disc sales are definitely declining, but the major factor is not because of blu-ray. Thought someone should point out the obvious.
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post #200 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Yup, this is what I generally hear from younger kids these days. Most of these kids also believe downloading/streaming free on lesser picture quality is also fine. However, since they do subscribe to Netflix, I am guessing the majority of their movie streaming must be legal.

Always remember, that over 95% of the worlds population, does not, and can not subscribe to Netflix. Netflix is not the reason for disc sales decreases, spending habits are.
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