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Blu-ray vs. every other consumer technology (2010) - Page 6

post #201 of 421
'The war is over, and HD has won'. Jobs is brilliant, and hilarious.
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post #202 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Always remember, that over 95% of the worlds population, does not, and can not subscribe to Netflix. Netflix is not the reason for disc sales decreases, spending habits are.

..... and what is your point? .......... I see that you're just stating the obvious, but stating nonesense to my prior post.


Eitherway, I think your statement is wrong in the US market. DVD rental/streaming/VOD/Cable business such as Netflix and the likes is negatively impacting on movie disc sales for sure.
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post #203 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

..... and what is your point? .......... I see that you're just stating the obvious, but stating nonesense to my prior post.


I am stating the obvious, and this is nonsense? Can you clarify what you mean?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Eitherway, I think your statement is wrong in the US market. DVD rental/streaming/VOD/Cable business such as Netflix and the likes is negatively impacting on movie disc sales for sure.

So, you believe that a US based service may have some effect on the products sold in the US? Did it take you long to come up with this theory? I have another one for you, my thoughts are that Netflix has a 0% effect on the sales in physical media external to the USA.
post #204 of 421
I think you can put the final nail in the coffin for Blu-Ray drives in Macs after that media event speech. Not only did they not mention any type of physical media format like Blu-Ray, they went so far as to remove the CD/DVD from the iTunes 10 logo. The new Apple TV highlights why we won't see Blu-Ray drives as well. With Airplay, Apple could have made streaming Blu-Ray movies from your Mac one of the key features of the AppleTV and also the iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch. That did not happen and I believe it will not happen moving forward.

In fact, if there wasn't such a reliance on reinstalling Mac OS X from a CD or DVD, it wouldn't surprise me if they phased out all optical drives. I'm sure this will be unsettling to consumers at first, but I remember how the lack of a floppy drive in the iMac was the 'death knell for Apple' back in 1998. I'm not saying it will happen this year, but it will start happening sooner than people think.
post #205 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran441 View Post

In fact, if there wasn't such a reliance on reinstalling Mac OS X from a CD or DVD, it wouldn't surprise me if they phased out all optical drives. I'm sure this will be unsettling to consumers at first, but I remember how the lack of a floppy drive in the iMac was the 'death knell for Apple' back in 1998.

A highly unfair comparison considering the floppy disc was incredibly unreliable, stored very little, and was very slow. The ability to email a 2MB attachment made the floppy disc completely unnecessary, and the ability to burn a CD far eclipsed the floppy's functionality. By comparison, the ability to pay $5 for a one-time viewing of a comparatively low quality stream in no way makes blu-ray unnecessary or archaic.

Streaming does not offer superior quality, but rather far poorer quality. Streaming does not offer better reliability than an unscratchable physical copy. Streaming does not offer better selection, but actually far worse. Streaming is not more affordable, but actually more expensive at $5 per viewing. Streaming is still superior only in theory, and will remain so for a very, very long time.
post #206 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

A highly unfair comparison considering the floppy disc was incredibly unreliable, stored very little, and was very slow. The ability to email a 2MB attachment made the floppy disc completely unnecessary, and the ability to burn a CD far eclipsed the floppy's functionality. By comparison, the ability to pay $5 for a one-time viewing of a comparatively low quality stream in no way makes blu-ray unnecessary or archaic.

Streaming does not offer superior quality, but rather far poorer quality. Streaming does not offer better reliability than an unscratchable physical copy. Streaming does not offer better selection, but actually far worse. Streaming is not more affordable, but actually more expensive at $5 per viewing. Streaming is still superior only in theory, and will remain so for a very, very long time.

I think you'll be glad to hear that we actually agree for once. The analogy to floppies is false.

But with one minor quibble though. Streaming selection can be considered both inferior and superior depending on context.

Certainly, more movies are available on physical media. However, none of them are actually at my home right now. On any given night, I can choose between two unseen netflix disks, a bunch of old DVDs i've seen quite a few times... or a 100,000 streaming titles that I've never seen before.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both delivery methods.
post #207 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

I think you'll be glad to hear that we actually agree for once. The analogy to floppies is false.

But with one minor quibble though. Streaming selection can be considered both inferior and superior depending on context.

Certainly, more movies are available on physical media. However, none of them are actually at my home right now. On any given night, I can choose between two unseen netflix disks, a bunch of old DVDs i've seen quite a few times... or a 100,000 streaming titles that I've never seen before.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both delivery methods.

In short, convenience.

It does seem like a lot more people value convenience over quality.
post #208 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

I think you'll be glad to hear that we actually agree for once. The analogy to floppies is false.

But with one minor quibble though. Streaming selection can be considered both inferior and superior depending on context.

Certainly, more movies are available on physical media. However, none of them are actually at my home right now. On any given night, I can choose between two unseen netflix disks, a bunch of old DVDs i've seen quite a few times... or a 100,000 streaming titles that I've never seen before.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both delivery methods.

Very true. But...

Last night I was going through the Netflix streaming options trying to find something I wanted to watch. After spending a half-hour going through about 36 pages of movies and tv shows, I only found two movies I had even a mild interest in watching and hadn't seen before. In the time it took to find two movies I was slightly interested in, I could have literally walked down to a Redbox and gotten a movie I'm actually excited to see, and on blu-ray no less.
post #209 of 421
Your singular perspective does not dictate the direction of the entire market.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Very true. But...

Last night I was going through the Netflix streaming options trying to find something I wanted to watch. After spending a half-hour going through about 36 pages of movies and tv shows, I only found two movies I had even a mild interest in watching and hadn't seen before. In the time it took to find two movies I was slightly interested in, I could have literally walked down to a Redbox and gotten a movie I'm actually excited to see, and on blu-ray no less.
post #210 of 421
Its clear that purchasing physical media is an old business model. The studios are afraid of profit erosion and want to set up what will replace physical media. But all in all physical media won't be so profitable anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I read it the other day when you posted it. The studios have always had a variety of different methods of selling their products, now they have more. They are trying to protect all their sales by having their products available anywhere, this isn't new.
post #211 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Very true. But...

Last night I was going through the Netflix streaming options trying to find something I wanted to watch. After spending a half-hour going through about 36 pages of movies and tv shows, I only found two movies I had even a mild interest in watching and hadn't seen before. In the time it took to find two movies I was slightly interested in, I could have literally walked down to a Redbox and gotten a movie I'm actually excited to see, and on blu-ray no less.

No arguing with that scenario. Some people's preference and their available streaming services result in exactly that scenario.

I was just countering the extreme assertion that streaming is only better in theory. Because both your scenario/preference exist, as well as people who have the opposite experience, it seemed prudent to point out that both have advantages and disadvantages.

As a balancing anecdote, consider this. Despite living in Pittsburgh, a rather large city, I've never even seen a redbox and the nearest rental store is a 10 minute drive away. In rush hour, its more like a 30 minute drive. Nearly all the blockbusters closed 5 years ago and only a few independent shops remain. I think there are redbox around but I haven't seen one in the neighborhoods I drive through. This certainly isn't the case for everyone. But it does point out that streaming is already superior for some people.

[edit]Googling revealed that there was indeed a rental store I didn't know about. The above times have been revised accordingly.
post #212 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Very true. But...

Last night I was going through the Netflix streaming options trying to find something I wanted to watch. After spending a half-hour going through about 36 pages of movies and tv shows, I only found two movies I had even a mild interest in watching and hadn't seen before. In the time it took to find two movies I was slightly interested in, I could have literally walked down to a Redbox and gotten a movie I'm actually excited to see, and on blu-ray no less.

This is pretty much my experience too. I was going to watch Charade via Netflix streaming the other night but the quality was so poor I quit after several minutes. It was like trying to watch a VHS movie. Of the several Netflix streaming movies that I've been been able to find that I've even wanted to wanted to watch, one approached up converted DVD, most looked like a regular non up converted DVD, plus the aforementioned Charade. None approached the quality of even a very average BD movie.

The Redbox kiosk in the local Fred Meyer that's about 3/4 of a mile from where I live carries a limited number of BDs so dfiler, Redbox kiosks are out there, all you have to do is look. But then again Pittsburgh ... .

Basically there is no right answer, so everybody has to go with what works for them.
post #213 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

This is pretty much my experience too. I was going to watch Charade via Netflix streaming the other night but the quality was so poor I quit after several minutes. It was like trying to watch a VHS movie. Of the several Netflix streaming movies that I've been been able to find that I've even wanted to wanted to watch, one approached up converted DVD, most looked like a regular non up converted DVD, plus the aforementioned Charade. None approached the quality of even a very average BD movie.

Basically there is no right answer, so everybody has to go with what works for them.

I'm not surprised at variable experiences when streaming. Most streaming capable blu-ray players are equipped with poor quality video processors. Only the the higher end models would upscale well to higher resolution. Couple generations old Samsung BD-2550 equipped with reon video processor is still the king when it comes to upcoverting streaming material. Most newer consumer end streaming capable bd-players use much cheaper parts.

The streaming quality also depends on the network traffic and capability. Most people streaming via wireless connection also seem to get hit on PQ.

The iTune generation kids can bare streaming video from Hulu and other services and they are likely to not complain about Netflix streaming on PQ. Obviously, you're not one of them and I myself would not be happy unless it's streaming in HD like quality. I'm still waiting for the right standalone BD player. The upcoming Denon 2011 may fit the need, when they release it.
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post #214 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

This is pretty much my experience too. I was going to watch Charade via Netflix streaming the other night but the quality was so poor I quit after several minutes. It was like trying to watch a VHS movie. Of the several Netflix streaming movies that I've been been able to find that I've even wanted to wanted to watch, one approached up converted DVD, most looked like a regular non up converted DVD, plus the aforementioned Charade. None approached the quality of even a very average BD movie.

The Redbox kiosk in the local Fred Meyer that's about 3/4 of a mile from where I live carries a limited number of BDs so dfiler, Redbox kiosks are out there, all you have to do is look. But then again Pittsburgh ... .

Basically there is no right answer, so everybody has to go with what works for them.

Seriously, did you really miss the part of my post that said my "this isn't true for everybody"? And yet you have the gaul to tell me that "all you have to do is look [for red box]"? As if I'm just an idiot or perhaps lying? Then you further the insult by suggesting that there is something wrong with my city. Great, real mature.

Because you've only tried "several" netflix streams, perhaps you might want to look again before deciding that "none approach the quality of even an average BD". They're certainly lower bit rate, but much of the population would find some of the HD streams indistinguishable from bluray. I'm sure that last sentence blew your mind, but it is true. Try browsing the HD section of netflix. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion after you've watched some HD streams. 7 megabit can look pretty good with a modern codec, definitely much better than just upconverted DVD.
post #215 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I'm not surprised at variable experiences when streaming. Most streaming capable blu-ray players are equipped with poor quality video processors. Only the the higher end models would upscale well to higher resolution. Couple generations old Samsung BD-2550 equipped with reon video processor is still the king when it comes to upcoverting streaming material. Most newer consumer end streaming capable bd-players use much cheaper parts.

The streaming quality also depends on the network traffic and capability. Most people streaming via wireless connection also seem to get hit on PQ.

The iTune generation kids can bare streaming video from Hulu and other services and they are likely to not complain about Netflix streaming on PQ. Obviously, you're not one of them and I myself would not be happy unless it's streaming in HD like quality. I'm still waiting for the right standalone BD player. The upcoming Denon 2011 may fit the need, when they release it.

Have you tried a ps3 on wired gigabit? The HD steaming is phenomenal. Guests at my place have mistaken it for bluray. Granted, since you're considering a yet to be released denon player, you're probably more discriminating than them.
post #216 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its clear that purchasing physical media is an old business model. The studios are afraid of profit erosion and want to set up what will replace physical media. But all in all physical media won't be so profitable anymore.

No one has ever argued this point, one day digital downloads will be the future. The thing is, it is not happening now, it will not happen tomorrow, it will be a long time in the future.
post #217 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Have you tried a ps3 on wired gigabit? The HD steaming is phenomenal. Guests at my place have mistaken it for bluray. Granted, since you're considering a yet to be released denon player, you're probably more discriminating than them.

I have a HTPC with fanless ATI 5750 doing a decent job now for blu-ray and streaming. The thought of getting a PS3 did cross my mind, but I need more interconnect options. I now need 3D capability for kids movies, good video scaling, video streaming, and good analog multi-channel audio out to play well with my aging AVR driving aging vintage speakers for critical music listening. If I were to be happy with the lower av standards, then I would be happy with dvd's and VHS. I discrimiate because I need more. I am sure everyone's needs are different.
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post #218 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No one has ever argued this point, one day digital downloads will be the future. The thing is, it is not happening now, it will not happen tomorrow, it will be a long time in the future.

But something, somewhere, is happening.
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post #219 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I have a HTPC with fanless ATI 5750 doing a decent job now for blu-ray and streaming. The thought of getting a PS3 did cross my mind, but I need more interconnect options. I now need 3D capability for kids movies, good video scaling, video streaming, and good analog multi-channel audio out to play well with my aging AVR driving aging vintage speakers for critical music listening. If I were to be happy with the lower av standards, then I would be happy with dvd's and VHS. I discrimiate because I need more. I am sure everyone's needs are different.

Some more different than others.

Wow. That's one he'll of a setup. I'm squeaking by a front projector, crown amps and a sub the size of a water heater.

In other words, neither of us is very typical of media consumers. Not to discount our opinions, but it is good to keep them in perspective. For instance, "need[ing] 3d for kids movies". Just like I need 120 pounds of subwoofer.
post #220 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Some more different than others.

Wow. That's one he'll of a setup. I'm squeaking by a front projector, crown amps and a sub the size of a water heater.

In other words, neither of us is very typical of media consumers. Not to discount our opinions, but it is good to keep them in perspective. For instance, "need[ing] 3d for kids movies". Just like I need 120 pounds of subwoofer.

haha.... My subs don't weigh 120lbs but I have two infinity SSW- 212 from 1990's that weighs 72lbs each. One can never have enough bass unless it is out of tune.

I do agree with your assessment that you, myself, and many others looking into HD contents do not represent typical consumers. Hence, most premium AV contents remain in the niche market status.
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post #221 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Seriously, did you really miss the part of my post that said my "this isn't true for everybody"? And yet you have the gaul to tell me that "all you have to do is look [for red box]"? As if I'm just an idiot or perhaps lying? Then you further the insult by suggesting that there is something wrong with my city. Great, real mature.

Because you've only tried "several" netflix streams, perhaps you might want to look again before deciding that "none approach the quality of even an average BD". They're certainly lower bit rate, but much of the population would find some of the HD streams indistinguishable from bluray. I'm sure that last sentence blew your mind, but it is true. Try browsing the HD section of netflix. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion after you've watched some HD streams. 7 megabit can look pretty good with a modern codec, definitely much better than just upconverted DVD.

Wow! Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or something?

According to a recent news article Redbox has 26,900 kiosks primarily in supermarkets, convenience stores and MacDonalds. Here they're practically ubiquitous, if you say they're not in Pittsburg so be it.

Regarding Netflix, yes I'm sure that a HD download would look better than a DVD one, but if it's in HD I'd prefer to watch it in BD. The PQ should be better and the sound, particularly LFE, should be much better, something you with your water heater size SW should appreciate.

As I said before, there's no right format for everyone. Go with what works for you.
post #222 of 421
Its not happening now? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No one has ever argued this point, one day digital downloads will be the future. The thing is, it is not happening now, it will not happen tomorrow, it will be a long time in the future.
post #223 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its not happening now? Really?

No it isn't. For the vast majority of consumers the way to purchase or rent movies is via optical disc, this will continue to be the way for a number of years. The infrastructure to support full movie digital downloads/streaming to happen over the current internet connections doesn't exist in the majority of the world.

If you only think about your little piece of the world, then maybe it is the current way of doing things, but that would explain a lot of things, especially if you can't think of others situations in this subject.
post #224 of 421
Sure for right now the majority of content is consumed on physical media. But right is just right now.

You seem to ignore the fact and reason why brick and mortar media stores are closing. Blockbuster is on its last legs.

The reason why Netflix just spent $1 Billion for streaming rights is because it is the fastest growing part of their busines. Netflix is looking for similar deals because its growth is in streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No it isn't. For the vast majority of consumers the way to purchase or rent movies is via optical disc, this will continue to be the way for a number of years. The infrastructure to support full movie digital downloads/streaming to happen over the current internet connections doesn't exist in the majority of the world.
post #225 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Sure for right now the majority of content is consumed on physical media. But right is just right now.

You seem to ignore the fact and reason why brick and mortar media stores are closing. Blockbuster is on its last legs.

The reason why Netflix just spent $1 Billion for streaming rights is because it is the fastest growing part of their busines. Netflix is looking for similar deals because its growth is in streaming.

Your case is even stronger than that. The majority of content is already delivered electronically, not via physical media. That is, when you include cable, satellite, fios; both in their regular lineups and via PPV.

The distinction you're probably shooting for revolves around the concept of being able to watch exactly what you want to watch, when you want to watch it. Otherwise, "streaming" would include regular cable programming.

As it stands now, the comparison can be a bit hard to nail down. It all depends on one's preferences when choosing between broadcasts, streaming (including PPV), and physical media. One might say, with streaming I can choose from thousands of unseen titles at any given instant. Yet this can be countered by comparing the available selection of titles on physical media vs a streaming library like netflix. Then this too is countered by, well what do you have at home tonight to watch?

Eventually, the differences in preference will decrease and almost completely disappear. That is, when streaming libraries overtake and eventually dwarf the inventory at physical media stores. At that point, streaming will be the preference for pretty much everyone with sufficient bandwidth.

I think the real debate is about how far out this "eventually" is.
post #226 of 421
Thread Starter 
So I finally got around to picking up a Samsung BR player with internet/Netflix.

Holy God. That has to be the single worst set-up/UI experience I've ever had in my life. They should be deeply, deeply ashamed to have shipped such an utter clusterfuck of a hack of an abortion of an "internet experience."

Now that it's up and running it's only mildly blind-rage inducing, in that it routinely forgets its internet settings, decides it can't see the Airport Express all of 10' away, or just mysteriously blanks out when I change inputs.

But the set-up! Where to begin? The completely different data entry scheme for each and every instance where text or numbers are required? The utterly uninformative "user manual"? The near impossible task of even getting it to work with an Apple wireless access point? The different and conflicting menu designs? Wait, I know, the crown jewel: on the ugly internet services screen, there are awkwardly placed icons for Netflix, Pandora, whatever "Samsung@TV" is supposed to be, etc. There's also a very large panel that says "Samsung Internet!" with a picture of cables and apps flying off a screen. You can navigate to it. It gets a blue border when selected, just like, say, the Netflix icon. And when you select it you get a bigger version of the graphic. That's all. Dead end. Really Samsung? You thought that was reasonable? Nobody pointed out that this is pretty much a slap in the face to your customers, a frank admission that you really don't give a shit?

Clearly, the Samsung internet services people got a few square inches of circuit board space and made their interface far, far away from where the Blu-Ray people work. They literally have nothing to do with each other.

I've given Ireland shit for holding out for an Apple branded TV, but this thing makes me long for one.

Oh yeah, and I picked this up cheap, open box at Best Buy (gee, I wonder why they have so many of them?), and it turned out to have the prior owner/victim's Netflix account still on it. How do you delete that and input your own? You wouldn't guess in a million years, and god knows the manual has nothing to say on the topic. Took a call to Netflix, whose brisk efficiency on this count made it sound like they field 1000 calls a day on just that topic. So you navigate to a particular screen and press "Info" on the BR remote. And that brings up the account delete screen. (Begins to cry blood).
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post #227 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Sure for right now the majority of content is consumed on physical media. But right is just right now.

exactly, I am glad you have finally understood this concept. Tomorrow will be a difficult place to get to with the current infrastructure in place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You seem to ignore the fact and reason why brick and mortar media stores are closing. Blockbuster is on its last legs.

You ignore the fact that I don't live in the US, so I don't see these stores closing. Like I said, people currently, and will do for a while to come, purchase and rent the majority of their movies via optical disc.

And don't forget that the likes of Amazon are a major reason for stores that sell physical media failing, they can't compete with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The reason why Netflix just spent $1 Billion for streaming rights is because it is the fastest growing part of their busines. Netflix is looking for similar deals because its growth is in streaming.

Like I said, one day digital downloads/streaming will be the market leader method of watching movies, I agree with this point, I don't agree with your "now" timeframe.
post #228 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So I finally got around to picking up a Samsung BR player with internet/Netflix.

I purchased a samsung DVD player once, it is the last Samsung player I will purchase, I have no issue with their TV's, but their DVD players aren't good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I've given Ireland shit for holding out for an Apple branded TV, but this thing makes me long for one.

What makes you think they will do any better, I hate the interface on my Apple TV, it is very poor, and should be an embarrassment for Apple.
post #229 of 421
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What makes you think they will do any better, I hate the interface on my Apple TV, it is very poor, and should be an embarrassment for Apple.

Compared to what Samsung's done it's the freaking ceiling of the Cistine Chapel.
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post #230 of 421
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Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Compared to what Samsung's done it's the freaking ceiling of the Cistine Chapel.

Comparing yourself to a poor performer isn't the best option
post #231 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Compared to what Samsung's done it's the freaking ceiling of the Cistine Chapel.

Software interface can/will get improved over time. Not a huge issue for most people right now. If Samsung and others decide it is a critical feature, it can be updated via firmware update......

Consumers these days are little more smarter and will find the means to get it work, if they need the feature. However, I do agree that the interface should be as easy as turning on the unit and scrolling through menu with a remote to find all features.

My kids have no problem playing with Wii GUI/interface. I think DVD player interface can also be simplified with proper efforts in the future.
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post #232 of 421
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Software interface can/will get improved over time. Not a huge issue for most people right now. If Samsung and others decide it is a critical feature, it can be updated via firmware update......

Consumers these days are little more smarter and will find the means to get it work, if they need the feature. However, I do agree that the interface should be as easy as turning on the unit and scrolling through menu with a remote to find all features.

My kids have no problem playing with Wii GUI/interface. I think DVD player interface can also be simplified with proper efforts in the future.

But software doesn't get better over time just magically, as a matter of course, like the increases in CPU speed or memory. It has to be something a given company thinks is really valuable and important. I would say the Samsung design suggests that those values are not extant at that company. That they see hardware/software/functionality as a collection of parts and features, as stipulated by engineering and marketing people, and that there's no reason on earth to think that they'll make ever make it "better", but rather that they'll just keep sticking more shit in there in response to what they imagine to be competitive pressure.

And I would say even if Samsung took a mind to improving things, that a good quality, integrated UI experience definitely doesn't just get bolted on at some point when a manufacturer gets around to it. They would have to think in terms of platforms, and what they have with this internet stuff is about as far from a platform as it's possible to be.

I think that's why so many manufacturers are swallowing their pride and just going the full Android: they have no idea whatsoever as to how to put together a cohesive experience across devices in such a way as to not cause their customers to just throw up their hands and give up. Pretty obviously analogous to all those "smart phones" pre-iPhone that we kept hearing were way more power than anything from Apple and had had that power for years, so what was the big deal about the iPhone anyway? Which conveniently left out the fact that almost no one used almost any of those features, because they were so horribly implemented.

I'm willing to be that relatively few of the Samsung internet enabled Blu-Ray players are actually accessing the internet (remember, there were a dozen or so open box returns on my local Best Buy shelves). And claiming that people are getting more tech savvy so that hideously ill-designed, tear-off-you-face stupid nonsense is acceptable is insulting.
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post #233 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But software doesn't get better over time just magically, as a matter of course, like the increases in CPU speed or memory. It has to be something a given company thinks is really valuable and important. I would say the Samsung design suggests that those values are not extant at that company. That they see hardware/software/functionality as a collection of parts and features, as stipulated by engineering and marketing people, and that there's no reason on earth to think that they'll make ever make it "better", but rather that they'll just keep sticking more shit in there in response to what they imagine to be competitive pressure.

And I would say even if Samsung took a mind to improving things, that a good quality, integrated UI experience definitely doesn't just get bolted on at some point when a manufacturer gets around to it. They would have to think in terms of platforms, and what they have with this internet stuff is about as far from a platform as it's possible to be.

I think that's why so many manufacturers are swallowing their pride and just going the full Android: they have no idea whatsoever as to how to put together a cohesive experience across devices in such a way as to not cause their customers to just throw up their hands and give up. Pretty obviously analogous to all those "smart phones" pre-iPhone that we kept hearing were way more power than anything from Apple and had had that power for years, so what was the big deal about the iPhone anyway? Which conveniently left out the fact that almost no one used almost any of those features, because they were so horribly implemented.

I'm willing to be that relatively few of the Samsung internet enabled Blu-Ray players are actually accessing the internet (remember, there were a dozen or so open box returns on my local Best Buy shelves). And claiming that people are getting more tech savvy so that hideously ill-designed, tear-off-you-face stupid nonsense is acceptable is insulting.

If the manufacturers are convinced that good UI will move their product off the store shelves, it will happen.

It is already happening with some DVD/Universal player manufacturers. The recent UI on Oppo/Denon players have very easy to use graphical UI for audio set up. This wasn't the case three years ago.

Many consumer end AVR's now include self audio calibration feature, but this was not the case unless you invest in the higher end units within last 5 years.

Give your business to the company/product with features you want. I am sure everyone will eventually catch up to be more competitive. Don't give up just yet. This is why I am still waiting on the right standalone BD player.
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post #234 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

exactly, I am glad you have finally understood this concept. Tomorrow will be a difficult place to get to with the current infrastructure in place.

Exactly where did I ever say that people don't use physical media today?


Quote:
You ignore the fact that I don't live in the US, so I don't see these stores closing. Like I said, people currently, and will do for a while to come, purchase and rent the majority of their movies via optical disc.

And don't forget that the likes of Amazon are a major reason for stores that sell physical media failing, they can't compete with them.

I did not know you don't live in the US. so I couldn't ignore something I don't know. If stores aren't yet closing in your country yet. It just means you are behind the curve.

Netflix has a billino dollars that says people won't continue to consume physical media the way they have in the past.

Can you show anyone putting up a large investment in continuing physical media distribution?

iTunes is far larger than Amazon.

Quote:
Like I said, one day digital downloads/streaming will be the market leader method of watching movies, I agree with this point, I don't agree with your "now" timeframe.

Your presumption is that streaming doesn't count until it has surpassed physical media. The growth curve has to start before it can replace physical media. The growth is happening right now. Everyone can see where this is going and are preparing for it.

Netflix has acknowledged that more people stream movies than request Blu-ray. Streaming is the fastest growing segment of their business.
post #235 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Exactly where did I ever say that people don't use physical media today?

You didn't, and I didn't imply that you did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I did not know you don't live in the US. so I couldn't ignore something I don't know. If stores aren't yet closing in your country yet. It just means you are behind the curve.

I have stated that fact a number of times in different threads. Stores close for a number of reasons. In a number of countries Amazon has dramatically changed the way people purchase physical items. LIke I have said, eventually digital downloads will be the way the majority of people purchase/rent movies, but that is still some time away, and it isn't the current reason stores are closing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Netflix has a billino dollars that says people won't continue to consume physical media the way they have in the past.

Again, I have agreed with the digital download future, and I will repeat again since you seem to want to ignore this, it will take place in the future, not now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Can you show anyone putting up a large investment in continuing physical media distribution?

No, because I don't make it a habit of looking into the business practices of companies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

iTunes is far larger than Amazon.

Are you claiming that Apple is selling more movies via iTunes than Amazon sells physical DVDs/Bly-rays?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Your presumption is that streaming doesn't count until it has surpassed physical media. The growth curve has to start before it can replace physical media. The growth is happening right now. Everyone can see where this is going and are preparing for it.

Again, you are trying to put words into my mouth, I haven't presumed anything of the sort. I will say this again, and I think I have said it multiple times in this message, I don't disagree with the digital download future, but you want to ignore this fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Netflix has acknowledged that more people stream movies than request Blu-ray. Streaming is the fastest growing segment of their business.

Very good, again, I think this is the forth time I have said this, I don't disagree with you, it will be a growth segment. And obviously the US has some good infrastructure in place to support this. You must have large data caps, and fast broadband to let you to do this. I hope your internet companies continue to allow you to have these large caps.

Personally, they have to solve a large number of issues associated with the current movie digital downloads before I will use it. A couple of the top of my head that I would like fixed are, they need some quality improvements, personally I don't want to move backwards in quality, they need to solve the interoperability issues, and they need to fix the pricing issues, digital downloads are currently dramatically overpriced.
post #236 of 421
Is Bluray really better than regular DVD movies? It is quite expensive to buy.
post #237 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Is Bluray really better than regular DVD movies? It is quite expensive to buy.

lol. Oh this is gonna be good. (The answer to this question is completely subjective.)

That subjective answer depends on quality of TV, distance from screen, quality of your eyesight, and to some degree, whether you have a personality that pays attention to such differences. The only real answer to this question is to make up your own mind after seeing the difference in person.

With that said... If you have yet to actually see a blu-ray, chances are you aren't the type of person on a quest for the best possible picture quality.
post #238 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I have stated that fact a number of times in different threads. Stores close for a number of reasons. In a number of countries Amazon has dramatically changed the way people purchase physical items. LIke I have said, eventually digital downloads will be the way the majority of people purchase/rent movies, but that is still some time away, and it isn't the current reason stores are closing.

Stores that sell/rent physical media have little reason to close if people are buying/renting physical media.

Yeah..........Amazon sees the future in shipping paper books is so huge that they made the Kindle......hmmmm.......



Quote:
Again, I have agreed with the digital download future, and I will repeat again since you seem to want to ignore this, it will take place in the future, not now.

What you don't seem to understand is that companies wouldn't invest billions into entirely new market segments if the change in the market was not happening right now.




Quote:
No, because I don't make it a habit of looking into the business practices of companies.

Obviously..........



Quote:
Are you claiming that Apple is selling more movies via iTunes than Amazon sells physical DVDs/Bly-rays?

Its difficult to say they don't break out their individual sales in this way. But yes iTunes as a media store is far bigger than Amazon's media sales.


Quote:
Personally, they have to solve a large number of issues associated with the current movie digital downloads before I will use it. A couple of the top of my head that I would like fixed are, they need some quality improvements, personally I don't want to move backwards in quality, they need to solve the interoperability issues, and they need to fix the pricing issues, digital downloads are currently dramatically overpriced.

You say this as I ride the New York City subway and see people watching content on portable devices every day.
post #239 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Is Bluray really better than regular DVD movies? It is quite expensive to buy.


This depends on a lot things. Just to address your question in the PQ scale of 1 to 5, the best BD master can reach 5 on the PQ scale and the best superbit DVD PQ can reach around soft 4 out of 5. Same thing can be said about audio quality. This is the maximum potential of both technology for home theater environment.

However, the real world impact depends on your AV gear and your set up as mentioned by dfiler.
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post #240 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

Bluray is short lived. I received a BR player for xmas but I can't tell you the last time I actually visited a movie rental place, including those rental stands at the g store.

Every aspect of downloading and streaming movies is so much easier and convenient than the in-store purchase that even companies like Blockbuster and Netflix are embracing downloads. Plus, it satisfies my movie craving right then and there without having to leave the living room

Additionally, future movie codecs will get better, rural areas will soon enter the 21st century, and internet connections continue to increase in speed.


Hi, I can't agree with you. High definition is the future. After watching HD movies, I can't tolerate any SD or regular movies anymore.
though I dare not say Bluray is the only choice for HD, currently it seems the only choice I can take.
Likie iPod?
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I like iPod transfer...
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Likie iPod?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I like iPod transfer...
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