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Support for OpenGL 3.0 added in beta build of Mac OS X 10.6.3 - Page 2

post #41 of 70
That was a quote from a guy who has absolutely no inside information about what the Apple big wigs think. He has an axe to grind because Apple won't do what he wants them to do. So he says they don't take gaming seriously.

The irony of his statements is that at the same time, Apple was running ads about gaming on the iPod Touch. If you understand how much money it costs to run ads, then you understand how Apple feels about gaming on the iPhone/iTouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

See here: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ne_gaming.html

It was widely rumored that the bigwigs were somewhat disappointed that the iPhone was turning into a very popular gaming platform. I have to wonder if that same philosophy doesn't carry over to the Mac itself. Hopefully those days are over.

I think most people enjoy a good game every now and then. Having to reboot into some other OS to play your favorites is a bit irritating.
post #42 of 70
I say its difficult to say how quickly Apple should implement Open GL standards because we have no idea what Apple is doing. Graphics processing is all Nvidia and ATI do, its their jobs to stay current with graphics based standards, its all they do.

Its an entirely different matter when you are building an entire OS to support thousands of apps. Plus Apple is developing Open CL at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

I think it's still fair to say that Apple is slow in implementing the latest OpenGL standards.

nVidia released official OpenGL 3.0 drivers for Windows and Linux in December 2008 and ATI released theirs in January 2009. So every other major OS has had OpenGL 3.0 for at least a year now. Apple does make important contributions to OpenGL, but it'd be great if they helped popularize the standard in a timely manner.
post #43 of 70
That would be a very flawed conclusion. Jobs over saw the development of the original Mac OS and all of its underlying stuff. Jobs over saw the development of Next OS and all of its underlying stuff, which ten years later became OS X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldonius View Post

Steve Jobs: brilliant at UI, not so good at underlying stuff

Snow Leopard: very minor UI updates, lots of under-the-hood

Rumored Tablet: supposedly taking up most of Steve's time, as is iPhone

Conclusion: Steve had little to do with Snowy.
post #44 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

That was a quote from a guy who has absolutely no inside information about what the Apple big wigs think. He has an axe to grind because Apple won't do what he wants them to do. So he says they don't take gaming seriously.

The irony of his statements is that at the same time, Apple was running ads about gaming on the iPod Touch. If you understand how much money it costs to run ads, then you understand how Apple feels about gaming on the iPhone/iTouch.

That must be why they are only now looking to hire a game developer, how many years after the iPhone was released?

Just because a company throws an add out doesn't mean they were always on-board with an idea. Apple would be foolish to ignore it's popularity as a gaming platform. Talk to any long time Mac users and you will get the same answer. Want a game? Chances are you need to look at a Windows PC or a console.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/09/ar...on/09phon.html

John Carmack isn't some random iPhone app developer. He is and was a big player in the gaming industry. He was actively involved with Apple in quite a few projects and appears to be very familiar with Jobs personally as well as pushing for OpenGL on the Mac platform. Back when Jobs was brought back on board, it's common knowledge he met with key groups and developers to try to keep them on board with Apple to prevent them from bailing to Windows.

Here's the original article if anyone is interested:
John Carmack: Over the years I've been through a number of initiatives where Apple wants to get serious about games, and we've done things with them. The idea way back with Quake 3 on there, that was my deal with Steve Jobs: if Apple adopts OpenGL rather than going off and doing QuickTime3D or something else of their own which was going to be a bad idea, then I'll personally port the Quake 3 stuff rather than working with a partner company on that. And we went through all that. All of our Apple ports have been successful - they've all made money - but it's marginal money, and we have worked with Aspyr usually on all the other ones after that, but I do think it kind of comes from the top.

The truth is Steve Jobs doesn't care about games. This is going to be one of those things that I say something in an interview and it gets fed back to him and I'm on his s***head list for a while on that, until he needs me to do something else there. But I think that that's my general opinion. He's not a gamer. It's difficult to ask somebody to get behind something they don't really believe in. I mean obviously he believes in the music and the iTunes and that whole side of things, and the media side of things, and he gets it and he pushes it and they do wonderful things with that, but he's not a gamer. That's just the bottom line about it.

There are people at Apple who want to support all this - and there's no roadblocks for us right now, we're going to support the Mac on Rage, we hope to get a version of Quake Live going up on the Mac there - but it's just that's not what the Mac platform's about, and I don't really expect that to change because it's a tough equation now that you've got everybody dual-booting their Macs and everything: why would you want to go to the extra trouble of [developing games for Mac]?
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post #45 of 70
Apple provided iPhone developers with the tools they needed to make games, Apple showcased games during the first presentation of the iPhone SDK, Apple had an ad campaign promoting the iPod Touch as a gaming device. What more could they possibly have done to show that they support games?

Gaming on a computer is an entirely different matter than gaming on a hand held device.

It doesn't matter what his credentials are. Unless John Carmack is sitting in the board room when Apple is making its decisions, he has no idea what Apple is thinking or planning.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

That must be why they are only now looking to hire a game developer, how many years after the iPhone was released?

Just because a company throws an add out doesn't mean they were always on-board with an idea. Apple would be foolish to ignore it's popularity as a gaming platform. Talk to any long time Mac users and you will get the same answer. Want a game? Chances are you need to look at a Windows PC or a console.

John Carmack isn't some random iPhone app developer. He is and was a big player in the gaming industry. He was actively involved with Apple in quite a few projects and appears to be very familiar with Jobs personally as well as pushing for OpenGL on the Mac platform. Back when Jobs was brought back on board, it's common knowledge he met with key groups and developers to try to keep them on board with Apple to prevent them from bailing to Windows.
post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple provided iPhone developers with the tools they needed to make games, Apple showcased games during the first presentation of the iPhone SDK, Apple had an ad campaign promoting the iPod Touch as a gaming device. What more could they possibly have done to show that they support games?

Gaming on a computer is an entirely different matter than gaming on a hand held device.

It doesn't matter what his credentials are. Unless John Carmack is sitting in the board room when Apple is making its decisions, he has no idea what Apple is thinking or planning.

The question isn't about the iPhone as it's obvious the platform has taken off whether or not Apple likes the idea or not. You do realize this thread is about OpenGL on the Mac, not the iPhone right?

As to your comments about Carmack, given your statements, you would agree that you have even less idea as to what Apple is thinking or planning than he does? Carmack has met Jobs personally. Have you?

http://www.newsfinder.org/site/more/..._of_the_games/
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post #47 of 70
You implied earlier that Apple was disappointed in the iPhone being used for games. That is why the iPhone came into the discussion.

Unless in that meeting Jobs gave Carmack Apple's future roadmap. He knows about as much as I of what Apple is planning. Which is nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

The question isn't about the iPhone as it's obvious the platform has taken off whether or not Apple likes the idea or not. You do realize this thread is about OpenGL on the Mac, not the iPhone right?

As to your comments about Carmack, given your statements, you would agree that you have even less idea as to what Apple is thinking or planning than he does? Carmack has met Jobs personally. Have you?

http://www.newsfinder.org/site/more/..._of_the_games/
post #48 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You implied earlier that Apple was disappointed in the iPhone being used for games. That is why the iPhone came into the discussion.

Unless in that meeting Jobs gave Carmack Apple's future roadmap. He knows about as much as I of what Apple is planning. Which is nothing.

Given that he's met with Jobs, and he's a mover and shaker in the gaming community, you'll forgive me if I take his word over yours. I wouldn't need Hitlers future plans to figure out how he felt about someone who is Jewish. It's obvious the Mac isn't taken seriously as a gaming machine by Apple. One only needs to look at the current state of gaming and deduce the obvious. Apple has only now looked to hire a game developer for the iPhone after how many years? Every other OS out there comes with a bundle of games, even Linux. A Mac? Nada. Same for the iPhone.
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post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I hadn't realized they'd gotten so far behind. I wonder what prompted them to get on the ball? I know they initially hated the idea of the iPhone being a game machine. I wonder if they now see the appeal such things have to the general user community?

I can think of two reasons:
1 - Apple waited until "Snow Leopard" (i.e. Intel-only) was out so they would not have to deal with PowerPC.

2 - Apple was waiting for OpenGL 3.x which starts to deprecate legacy APIs so they can implement the modern APIs.
post #50 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

I can think of two reasons:
1 - Apple waited until "Snow Leopard" (i.e. Intel-only) was out so they would not have to deal with PowerPC.

2 - Apple was waiting for OpenGL 3.x which starts to deprecate legacy APIs so they can implement the modern APIs.

Hm..I hadn't even though about the PowerPC piece of the puzzle. I was just guessing that SL itself might have caused the slip.
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post #51 of 70
I was at a party in Santa Cruz California last year. I met someone who works at Apple on the Quicktime team. We were having general Apple conversation, this was before Snow Leopard was released and I was asking him about Quicktime X and getting no information out of him.

But he did tell me about the level of secrecy at Apple. He said a colleague of his was pulled from the Quicktime team to work on another project. He had no idea what the project was. It turned out his colleague was working on Quicktime for iPhone.

The guy telling me this story said that the first time he'd seen or heard anything official about the iPhone was when Steve Jobs pulled it out his pocket at MacWorld.

Now if someone who works at Apple everyday has no clear idea of what is going on in other departments within the company, how do you expect someone who other than meeting Steve Jobs once, has no direct connection to Apple, to be tapped into their secrets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Given that he's met with Jobs, and he's a mover and shaker in the gaming community, you'll forgive me if I take his word over yours. I wouldn't need Hitlers future plans to figure out how he felt about someone who is Jewish. It's obvious the Mac isn't taken seriously as a gaming machine by Apple. One only needs to look at the current state of gaming and deduce the obvious. Apple has only now looked to hire a game developer for the iPhone after how many years? Every other OS out there comes with a bundle of games, even Linux. A Mac? Nada. Same for the iPhone.
post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I was at a party in Santa Cruz California last year. I met someone who works at Apple on the Quicktime team. We were having general Apple conversation, this was before Snow Leopard was released and I was asking him about Quicktime X and getting no information out of him.

But he did tell me about the level of secrecy at Apple. He said a colleague of his was pulled from the Quicktime team to work on another project. He had no idea what the project was. It turned out his colleague was working on Quicktime for iPhone.

The guy telling me this story said that the first time he'd seen or heard anything official about the iPhone was when Steve Jobs pulled it out his pocket at MacWorld.

Now if someone who works at Apple everyday has no clear idea of what is going on in other departments within the company, how do you expect someone who other than meeting Steve Jobs once, has no direct connection to Apple, to be tapped into their secrets?

You're implying that Apple's opinion on something like gaming is the equivalent of an industry secret of the then yet to be released iPhone?
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post #53 of 70
Apple's opinion on gaming isn't that big of a secret. All you have to do is look at the quarterly sales. Gaming on personal computers does not sell very many Macs. Gaming does help sell personal media devices like the iPhone/iTouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You're implying that Apple's opinion on something like gaming is the equivalent of an industry secret of the then yet to be released iPhone?
post #54 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple's opinion on gaming isn't that big of a secret. All you have to do is look at the quarterly sales. Gaming on personal computers does not sell very many Macs. Gaming does help sell personal media devices like the iPhone/iTouch.

On that I can wholeheartedly agree. I think the gaming aspect of the iPhone caught Apple by surprise, to all of our benefits. This is one of those few times every decade when I actually get excited about new technology coming out.
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post #55 of 70
Despite the fact that Apple built 3D gaming capabilities into the SDK. Apple set up partnership with Sega and Electronic Arts to showcase games for the iPhone. Apple is surprised that anyone is actually using it. Hmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

On that I can wholeheartedly agree. I think the gaming aspect of the iPhone caught Apple by surprise, to all of our benefits. This is one of those few times every decade when I actually get excited about new technology coming out.
post #56 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Despite the fact that Apple built 3D gaming capabilities into the SDK. Apple set up partnership with Sega and Electronic Arts to showcase games for the iPhone. Apple is surprised that anyone is actually using it. Hmmmm

That is a good point. Every iPhone OS demo [since the introduction of the SDK] has been game heavy.
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post #57 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is a good point. Every iPhone OS demo from the start has been game heavy.

Actually that's not true. There was no SDK for iPhone when it was originally released. Even the original press releases for the SDK when it did arrive barely mentions gaming. It seemed very last minute.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1324...iphonesdk.html

It's the developers that turned it into a gaming platform, not Apple. It was a year later before there were even credible rumors that big companies were interested in creating games for the iPhone and iPod Touch

http://gigaom.com/2007/07/07/so-wher...-iphone-games/

From what I recall, there was a big demand for games, but we were all stuck with web based garbage for the 1st year, and the forums were full of requests for 'native iPhone games'. It doesn't take a genius to figure out you've got something going due to the clamoring all over the web for games.

And this:
"Despite no mention of games capability at yesterday's launch, a number of innovative functions have got content publishers buzzing – including a dual touch screen not dissimilar to that seen on Nintendo’s DS."

Hard to imagine it was touted as a game platform when they didn't even mention it.
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post #58 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Actually that's not true. There was no SDK for iPhone when it was originally released. Even the original press releases don't make a single mention of gaming.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1324...iphonesdk.html

It's the developers that turned it into a gaming platform, not Apple. It was a year later before there were even credible rumors that big companies were interested in creating games for the iPhone and iPod Touch

http://gigaom.com/2007/07/07/so-wher...-iphone-games/

From what I recall, there was a big demand for games, but we were all stuck with web based garbage for the 1st year, and the forums were full of requests for 'native iPhone games'. It doesn't take a genius to figure out you've got something going due to the clamoring all over the web for games.

March 6, 2008— iPhone Software Roundup Event

Touch Fighter (Apple, Scott Forstall) - Internal game demoed OpenGL on SDK and the power of the other APIs working together.
Spore (Electronic Arts, Travis Boatman) - The first 3rd-party app demoed for the iPhone OS was a game, not an IM, social networking or productivity app.
Super Monkey Ball (Sega, Ethan Einhorn) - Closed out the entire 3rd-party app demo with a game. There was also Salesforce, AOL Instant Messenger and Epocrates demoed in between the games. There is reason the games out number the other app categories and why they came first and last.
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post #59 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

March 6, 2008— iPhone Software Roundup Event

Touch Fighter (Apple, Scott Forstall) - Internal game demoed OpenGL on SDK and the power of the other APIs working together.
Spore (Electronic Arts, Travis Boatman) - The first 3rd-party app demoed for the iPhone OS was a game, not an IM, social networking or productivity app.
Super Monkey Ball (Sega, Ethan Einhorn) - Closed out the entire 3rd-party app demo with a game. There was also Salesforce, AOL Instant Messenger and Epocrates demoed in between the games. There is reason the games out number the other app categories and why they came first and last.

You seem to think I don't think it's a powerful gaming platform. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Apple certainly seemed intent on ignoring it as a game platform at first. The publishers and the users were always excited about the prospect, yet Apple ignored it for the release.

http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/25285...t-iPhone-games
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post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You seem to think I don't think it's a powerful gaming platform. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Apple certainly seemed intent on ignoring it as a game platform at first. The publishers and the users were always excited about the prospect, yet Apple ignored it for the release.

http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/25285...t-iPhone-games

By that logic, then you could "saying that Apple certainly seemed intent on ignoring” 3rd-party apps and an SDK in favour of web-apps, when it’s clear they were working on the SDK long before the iPhone was announced.

Apple isn’t one to release CGI mockups of what’s to come, like the Courier, or other vapourware. They tend not to announce something until it’s at least nearly ready. Their intent to allow 3rd-party apps and to make it a viable game platform seems pretty obvious to me.
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post #61 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

By that logic, then you could "saying that Apple certainly seemed intent on ignoring 3rd-party apps and an SDK in favour of web-apps, when its clear they were working on the SDK long before the iPhone was announced.

No. Read the link. I didn't say they weren't interested in producing an SDK. They ignored it's potential as a game platform.

Quote:
And this:
"Despite no mention of games capability at yesterday's launch, a number of innovative functions have got content publishers buzzing including a dual touch screen not dissimilar to that seen on Nintendos DS."
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post #62 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

No. Read the link. I didn't say they weren't interested in producing an SDK. They ignored it's potential as a game platform.

If you think they are not interested in the platform as a gaming device then how you can sure they were interested in the platform for 3rd-party devs since they announced neither at the 2007 event. It looks like they’ve done well to capitalize on the gaming potential.
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post #63 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you think they are not interested in the platform as a gaming device then how you can sure they were interested in the platform for 3rd-party devs since they announced neither at the 2007 event.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they always indicated they would be releasing an SDK for developers to create 3rd party apps. They just never mentioned it as a gaming platform.

Don't you think that even the most basic marketing pitch would include something as exciting as that in the promo's? The publishers and the users certainly took notice and were excited about the potential, but it was never even mentioned by Apple.

[Edit] Found the original release info. Ajax was communicated when the phone came out, and the SDK was communicated to developers 4 months after the release

"At WWDC 2007 on June 11, 2007 Apple announced that the iPhone would support third-party "web applications" written in Ajax that share the look and feel of the iPhone interface.[139] On October 17, 2007, Steve Jobs, in an open letter posted to Apple's "Hot News" weblog, announced that a software development kit (SDK) would be made available to third-party developers in February 2008"

And here's the letter from Jobs:

"Let me just say it: We want native third party applications on the iPhone, and we plan to have an SDK in developers’ hands in February. We are excited about creating a vibrant third party developer community around the iPhone and enabling hundreds of new applications for our users. With our revolutionary multi-touch interface, powerful hardware and advanced software architecture, we believe we have created the best mobile platform ever for developers.

It will take until February to release an SDK because we’re trying to do two diametrically opposed things at once—provide an advanced and open platform to developers while at the same time protect iPhone users from viruses, malware, privacy attacks, etc. This is no easy task. Some claim that viruses and malware are not a problem on mobile phones—this is simply not true. There have been serious viruses on other mobile phones already, including some that silently spread from phone to phone over the cell network. As our phones become more powerful, these malicious programs will become more dangerous. And since the iPhone is the most advanced phone ever, it will be a highly visible target.

Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than “totally open,” we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhone’s amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs.

We think a few months of patience now will be rewarded by many years of great third party applications running on safe and reliable iPhones.

Steve

P.S.: The SDK will also allow developers to create applications for iPod touch. [Oct 17, 2007]
"
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post #64 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they always indicated they would be releasing an SDK for developers to create 3rd party apps. They just never mentioned it as a gaming platform.

Don't you think that even the most basic marketing pitch would include something as exciting as that in the promo's? The publishers and the users certainly took notice and were excited about the potential, but it was never even mentioned by Apple.

No, and it was a big contention for people that seem to be long time Apple customers but didnt seem to understand the very basics of how the company tends to operate.

Simple timeline
  • August 29th, 1997 Skynet becomes self-aware
  • january, 9th 2007 iPhone announced
  • June 29th, 2007 iPhone released
  • September 5th, 2007 iPod Touch released
  • October 17th, 2007 Jobs announces new iPhone OS SDK in letter.
  • March 6th, 2008 Phone OS Beta 1 SDK released and 3rd-party games demoed at Apple event
  • July 10th, 2008 App Store went live with iTunes update
  • December, 21st, 2012 The Mayan obsessed with making a calendar dies before he could add December 22nd and so on so a small portion of the world gets stupid
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post #65 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No, and it was a big contention for people that seem to be long time Apple customers but didn’t seem to understand the very basics of how the company tends to operate.

Simple timeline…
  • August 29th, 1997 — Skynet becomes self-aware
  • january, 9th 2007 — iPhone announced
  • June 29th, 2007 — iPhone released
  • September 5th, 2007 — iPod Touch released
  • October 17th, 2007 — iPhone OS SDK announced by Job in letter to devs
  • March 6th, 2008 — Phone OS Beta 1 SDK released and 3rd-party games demoed at Apple event
  • July 10th, 2008 — App Store went live with iTunes update
  • December, 21st, 2012 — The Mayan obsessed with making a calendar dies before he could add December 22nd and so on

Nice touch

Quote:
  • August 29th, 1997 — Skynet becomes self-aware
    ...
  • December, 21st, 2012 — The Mayan obsessed with making a calendar dies before he could add December 22nd and so on

I think the iPhone's gaming aspect hit Apple like a ton of bricks. They've cashed in on it now of course, and I hope the update to OpenGL 3.0 is also a result of that and hopefully a change in direction for Apple. Not everyone wants to do work on their Mac 24x7, myself included. That and I hate rebooting into Windows.
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post #66 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Nice touch

I try to keep it light even when we dont agree.

Quote:
I think the iPhone's gaming aspect hit Apple like a ton of bricks. They've cashed in on it now of course, and I hope the update to OpenGL 3.0 is also a result of that and hopefully a change in direction for Apple. Not everyone wants to do work on their Mac 24x7, myself included. That and I hate rebooting into Windows.

I think the whole App Store ecosystem knocked them off guard in a good way. The number of devs, the number of apps, the cleverness of some apps, the very specific industry apps, the overnight success stories of some small devs, and even major developers who are big money from a PMP that isnt first designed as a handheld console.

Gameloft already scaled back their investment in Android. Even with the growing pains and complains a few have the iPhone OS, SDK and App Store are an overwhelming success. Its no wonder everyone seems to be following their lead...
Quote:
Games for iPhone generated 13 percent of Gameloft's revenue in [Q3-2008]. "We are selling 400 times more games on iPhone than on Android," Rochefort said.


It Could Be Better
I would like to see a proper gaming API added to the SDK. What i mean by that is that is developers having a simply way of making on on-screen controls work with any number of 3rd-party D-pads. You attach the hardware and the virtual buttons go away and correspond automatically with the HW buttons. Perhaps the dev could then add other buttons to the display for even more options. I think if Apple wants to make the iPhone OS into the best gaming machine they have to go this route in some capacity. Too many games just wont be ideal with a physical controls and without a standardization you dont get HW makers competing for your dollar and you dont want to have to buy a different control per game developer.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #67 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

[*]December, 21st, 2012 — The Mayan obsessed with making a calendar dies before he could add December 22nd and so on so a small portion of the world gets stupid[/LIST]

That's an insult to the Mayans and it also demonstrates your naivety and ignorance.
post #68 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

That's an insult to the Mayans and it also demonstrates your naivety and ignorance.

Don't forget I insulted cyborgs and have shown my ignorant toward artifical sentient lifeforms.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #69 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't forget I insulted cyborgs and have shown my ignorant toward artifical sentient lifeforms.

Haha
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
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3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
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post #70 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't forget I insulted cyborgs and have shown my ignorant toward artifical sentient lifeforms.

I don't care because those guys will definitely kill you for mocking them...they'll make sure to kill you when you were a kid and when your mom was in rehab.
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