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Claims of camera-equipped Apple tablet disputed - Page 3

post #81 of 133
Camera or it will be doa.

Blame this on the rumor mill.
post #82 of 133
yes thats right
shoot me
mini rant time
mac tripper bitched so much about glare and reflection i know see refections all the time
every where

and TECHSTUD IS BYE BYE
he deserved to be wiped clean from our slice of cyber world
YET I MISS HIM SO MUCH
he was a daily punching bag for so many that he painted himself into a tight corner no matter what he said even if he said a tiny negative thing all the buttons he pushed in the past remained pushed
besides 610 and stolii and jeff and mell i would have a beer with TS over anyone here

I AM SO BORED w a i t i n g
8 days until tablet time
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #83 of 133
teckie is back. just pay better attention, dusty crab ...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #84 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

i think all this camera stuff is a smoke screen to hide the stylus

Maybe a camera in the stylus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
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post #85 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

teckie is back. just pay better attention, dusty crab ...

he now wears a pink dress
its not the same
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #86 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

he now wears a pink dress
its not the same

Ah.
(Me foreigner then appearing to be happier, than someone who knows all details of those stupid ads...)

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #87 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacmatician View Post

Maybe a camera in the stylus?

wow
great idea
no kidding
a mini scanner stylus camera eye in the sky attachment

peace

and thank you for not putting me on your ignore list
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #88 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Absolutely right. And there will not be a camera. The percentage of people who would (try to) use this device to teleconference (beyond tweens playing with it for the novelty before they get bored with it) would be miniscule.
Can you imagine a multi user business conference, with people all holding these tablets out at arms-length; trying to hold them steady; trying to touch and scroll on things; meanwhile inside each participants video window, each talking-head is bobbing around; zooming in and out of frame.
It would be hilarious. People would get sea-sick.
Thank god Apple is a company that really thinks things through before moving forward. And even then; only one sure footed step at a time.

I don't know about positioning the device, but consider this:

1) if you are looking at the screen of the device to see the other participants, then your face must be in a position (somewhere) in front of the screen in order to see them-- whether the device is laid flat on the desktop, in your lap, propped up on a stand or held in your hand.
2) if you can see the screen (and its camera), then the camera can see you!
3) Even most medium-priced cameras have image-stabilization and face-alignment built-in-- these should be no-brainers for a tablet device

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #89 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Ah.
(Me foreigner then appearing to be happier, than someone who knows all details of those stupid ads...)

i suggest some acoustic hendrix for what ails you

9
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #90 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

i suggest some acoustic hendrix for what ails you
9

well I'm trying hard to make my stand. good for us we got better tunes

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #91 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmoth View Post

...So having the ability to play with photobooth on the go with you tablet could be fun.

Ya' know, that's a very good point! There are rumors of iWork on the Tablet-- I suspect that iLife would be would be a candidate, too-- at least some kind of photo and video manipulation better than what is currently on the iPhone 3GS.

Then there are 3rd-party IPhone apps such as AutoStitch which can stitch together a bunch of camera [roll] images to form a panorama... photoshop-lite type apps, etc.

With all these image-manipulation capabilities wouldn't it make sense to provide cameras to provide the images extemporaneously?

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #92 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

On this topic, I'll take clues from the musings of a senior exec from a company that has 189 million telephone subscribers than some tech blogger (I've never heard of this guy -- but that's not saying much).

LOL, good point!

All in all, it escapes my mind why so many (I assume so) intelligent people on here are distracted by topics of low relevance regarding the Tablet, and mention almost nothing on the most important topic of all - namely, what kind of software is the Tablet going to sport? If it's a watered down Snow Leopard, I am a taker right away - camera or no camera, SIM slot or no SIM (or in other words, 3G or no 3G), GPS or no GPS, OLED or LCD ... However, if it is going to have only 'expanded' iPhone OS - thanks, no thanks. I am fine with my iPhone for now, including for reading the news on the go

In fact, the absolute majority of the people here have assumed that the Tablet will have iPhone OS. Why?

I don't see why nobody has predicted proper Mac OS (Snow Leopard mini, that is) for the Tablet?
The great things for the great, the abysses for the profound, the thrills for the refined, and, to sum up shortly, everything rare for the rare.
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The great things for the great, the abysses for the profound, the thrills for the refined, and, to sum up shortly, everything rare for the rare.
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post #93 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by nDeng View Post


...order taking like ipod touch in apple store now, but bigger can do more for other area like in & out guy out there taking your order ( if you are in CA)

Funny, but I wrote a simple iPhone app (for my own amazement) that does InNOut ordering (like the guy out there).

It is a single screen app, you:

1) clear the screen
2) tally the order
3) total and transmit



I didn't include the secret menu (Animal-Style is my favorite).


The iPhone or Touch is quite powerful in its own right! We don' need no stinkin' Tablet!

There's an InNOut in Pasadena that's still in the same place since 1953-54!

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #94 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Really, cameras are so cheap to add they'll put one it. I think Gruber is misguided on this one. It's a webcam, nothing new, it'll have one - just like all Macs.

Gruber, who's a responsible industry observer with a good track record, didn't say whether he believes there will be a web cam or not. His exact words were these:
"And, for what its worth, Im hearing there is no camera, webcam or otherwise, on The Tablet."
Pretty non-committal, I'd say.

I went and listened to the original recording of the Orange exec interview in French and found it ambiguous. In summary, the interviewer said that they were hearing that the forthcoming Apple device would have a web cam, and asked if Orange subscribers would be able to use it too. The exec keeps replying "Yes," but that could just as well mean "Yes, we're all hearing the same rumours," and "Yes, if there's a web cam of course Orange subscribers would be able to use it."

It's kind of the difference between "Yes I hear you" and "Yes I agree with you."

So I wouldn't put too much stock in this interview either way.
post #95 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Funny, but I wrote a simple iPhone app (for my own amazement) that does InNOut ordering (like the guy out there).

Cute. You could name it I/O Order.

(Little tech joke. Very little. <g>)
post #96 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Cute. You could name it I/O Order.

(Little tech joke. Very little. <g>)

Hehe! InNOut would like that!

Nah!

I was thinking of: "ordering is as easy as one, t-t-t-t-t-two, three".

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #97 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Cute. You could name it I/O Order.

(Little tech joke. Very little. <g>)

First in, first out?
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #98 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

First in, first out?


I have always been a proponent for inventory accounting using the FINO method--

First In, Never Out

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #99 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I have always been a proponent for inventory accounting using the FINO method--

First In, Never Out

*

If you think about it (and I'd really rather not), FIFO is the most desirable method of handling food consumption routines. LIFO is the least desirable, in my experience.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #100 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Gruber, who's a responsible industry observer with a good track record, didn't say whether he believes there will be a web cam or not. His exact words were these:
"And, for what its worth, Im hearing there is no camera, webcam or otherwise, on The Tablet."
Pretty non-committal, I'd say.

One of Gruber's minions I see. You owe him nothing.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #101 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

One of Gruber's minions I see. You owe him nothing.

And then you put your pinkie to your mouth and stroke the cat.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #102 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

One of Gruber's minions I see. You owe him nothing.

Cool your jets. His comment is spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Gruber

And, for what it’s worth, I’m hearing there is no camera, webcam or otherwise, on The Tablet.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #103 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKuei View Post

Well I wanted to throw this thought out since I haven't seen anyone mention it, but some time in 2009 (I believe), there was an AI article detailing an Apple patent that indicated the ability for a device to detect touch input not only through the front/top of a device, but also the bottom/rear of the device.

When I first saw the patent, I thought it was laughingly implausible because, after all, how could you accurately touch control something on a screen/computer's rear without actually flipping it over and looking at it? Then I saw this incredible-looking transparent OLED 14" screen from Samsung at CES 2010. It seriously looks like something out of Star Trek or Minority Report, where the graphical elements pop up on the transparent screen, but you can still see through it.

That got me thinking then, isn't it possible that either with the upcoming tablet, or some future iteration of it, that we may see the use a transparent screen with touch sensing capabilities on BOTH sides of the device, allowing for far more gestures and touch controls then what is currently capable with single-sided touch panels? With transparency in play, you'd be able to see both your fingers on the rear along with the touch controls that you intend to activate from the rear.

Then add to that, the Apple patent that showed a portable device that could slide in and out of a desktop-class screen/computer like a docking station, and all of a sudden you have the makings of not just a tablet, but a whole new device pairing that is both ultra-portable and fully-functional. So maybe this is years off in the future, but it's no longer impossible to imagine on-the-go computing in a tablet format taking off in a big way.

I remember the patent very well. We did a lot of speculation on what it could mean. It's an interesting concept. With multitouch tech, it could work pretty well even without seeing what you're doing.

I've just practiced some multiple finger gestures on the back of a notebook I keep here for my computer use, and it seemed pretty easy to do. After all, multitouch doesn't require you to hit any particular spot. So you can swipe anywhere on the back and it would work. Much better than actual buttons. It would match much better with the Apple philosophy of the fewer buttons the better. I read somewhere just a couple of days ago why Apple has few buttons on the phone and likely on the tablet. It said that Jobs hates buttons. He wears a turtleneck and sneakers - no buttons. The guy might have something there!

Anyway, I don't think a transparent tablet is in the works because where would you put the electronics? I have an old small LCD 3" screen portable Tv from Magnavox. It must be almost 20 years old. The screen can be hinged up 90 degrees. You can see through the back that way. It's neat, but the screen is all washed out like that, and you can see a fuzzy image of the background. Very distracting, and the color is all off across the screen.

So while a transparent screen is cool, it's not very useful.
post #104 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) This is a rumour, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

2) The Nano has a very low-grade 0.3Mpx video camera that cant do still shots.

3) The Nano is clearly being put against the Flip video cameras.

4) The Touch doesnt have a camera yet its more expensive than the Nano.

We know the real reason why the Touch has no camera. Don't believe Job's reason. It's pretty obvious that Apple intended for one to be installed. We should see it before too long.

And I'm wondering if all the tablet speculation is on the money. It seems as though Apple will be having more than one new product to introduce this month.
post #105 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We know the real reason why the Touch has no camera. Don't believe Job's reason. It's pretty obvious that Apple intended for one to be installed. We should see it before too long.

And I'm wondering if all the tablet speculation is on the money. It seems as though Apple will be having more than one new product to introduce this month.

I dont know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I dont think its logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldnt hurt Nano or iPhone sales. Id say some technical issue was involved.

Which speculation about the tablet? Its all over the place.

I do think well get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They cant give up the AppleTV and its long overdue for a HW revamping but Im not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot The iPhone and AppleTV were shown off together back in January 2007.
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post #106 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Hey melgross. Best post of this thread. Too many are seeing this as the ultimate biz conferencing tool. I immediately saw it as a Skype tool, or iChat tool (finally), or some other way to connect people socially. Why would Apple make this a biz tool when they are not "really" in the biz world in the first place. This tablet, combined with a 3G radio, some wifi (the Nokia N800/N810 series had these capabilities), and the ability to tether would lend itself to a pretty potent device. I bought a 15 inch MBP but realized it was too small after having a 17 inch MBP so I gave it to my daughter. She got all of her friends on Skype, AIM, AOL, etc... and there is nothing but girlish giggling coming out of her room. A table with a cam would be a boon for people such as me who travels often, has a handful of sim cards to put in my legally unlocked iPhone (had to throw that in. ), but can now put them in a larger device and have the same if not better capabilities.

Yeah. My daughter and her friends are constantly video conferencing each other. They LOVE doing this! Across the pond esp, since they don't get together as she's in school. She even does it with us sometimes.
post #107 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I dont think its logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldnt hurt Nano or iPhone sales. Id say some technical issue was involved.

Which speculation about the tablet? Its all over the place.

I do think well get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They cant give up the AppleTV and its long overdue for a HW revamping but Im not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot The iPhone and AppleTV were shown off together back in January 2007.

How about bringing AppleTV in line with the iPhone 4.0 OS? If the tablet is running a variant, that would give users a unified experience across multiple "screens", as MS likes to say.

That's not to say that AppleTV wouldn't still have it's own, appropriate media managing app, but if you explicitly ran it on the iPhone OS and opened it up to developers, that app could be one among many, including games.
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post #108 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don’t know the real reason, I only know there is evidence that the Touch was slated to get a camera. I don’t think it’s logical to assume they canned the idea at the last minute so it wouldn’t hurt Nano or iPhone sales. I’d say some technical issue was involved.

It's the technical reason I'm talking about. It's no coincidence that there was a space for it in the proper place that wasn't in earlier models. Apple would rather sell Touches than Nanos.

Quote:
Which speculation about the tablet? It’s all over the place.

I do think we’ll get more than one new product. I think the order will be 2009 and holiday stats, iPhone v4.0 demo, new iPhone OS SDK, informed of new US carriers coming soon, and Tablet. They can’t give up the AppleTV and it’s long overdue for a HW revamping but I’m not sure that is the right venue. Perhaps with the next iPhone release or with new ACDs which are also long overdue. How much can we expect in one event? Hopefully a lot The iPhone and AppleTV were shown off together back in January 2007.

It looks as though they may introduce the new MacBook Pro's as well, now that there is information about the new chips for them. Refer to this AI article:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...cbook_pro.html
post #109 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It looks as though they may introduce the new MacBook Pro's as well, now that there is information about the new chips for them. Refer to this AI article:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...cbook_pro.html

Are those chips out in bulk yet? I am half expecting a February-March Special Event updated the Pro Mac line and likely giving us some new LED backlit ACDs.

Perhaps wishful thinking, but Id love to see a Mac Home Server in the mix, too.
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post #110 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Are those chips out in bulk yet? I am half expecting a February-March Special Event updated the Pro Mac line and likely giving us some new LED backlit ACDs.

Perhaps wishful thinking, but Id love to see a Mac Home Server in the mix, too.

I assume Apple will have them in large enough quantities when they need them. Don't forget that they seem to get chips from Intel before others if they want them.
post #111 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I remember the patent very well. We did a lot of speculation on what it could mean. It's an interesting concept. With multitouch tech, it could work pretty well even without seeing what you're doing.

I've just practiced some multiple finger gestures on the back of a notebook I keep here for my computer use, and it seemed pretty easy to do. After all, multitouch doesn't require you to hit any particular spot. So you can swipe anywhere on the back and it would work. Much better than actual buttons. It would match much better with the Apple philosophy of the fewer buttons the better. I read somewhere just a couple of days ago why Apple has few buttons on the phone and likely on the tablet. It said that Jobs hates buttons. He wears a turtleneck and sneakers - no buttons. The guy might have something there!

Anyway, I don't think a transparent tablet is in the works because where would you put the electronics? I have an old small LCD 3" screen portable Tv from Magnavox. It must be almost 20 years old. The screen can be hinged up 90 degrees. You can see through the back that way. It's neat, but the screen is all washed out like that, and you can see a fuzzy image of the background. Very distracting, and the color is all off across the screen.

So while a transparent screen is cool, it's not very useful.


If you experiment a bit, you find you could do quite a bit more than multitouch gestures; Almost any size tablet could have a touch surface on the back (in addition to the one on the front).

You could have a virtual split QWERTY (or other) keyboard that could track the position of the hands (fingers) and determine/adjust key location as necessary,

The palms and heals of the hands would support the tablet, freeing the thumbs and fingers for data entry.

The thumbs could register by touching the edges or front of the tablet,

As a training aid, you could display a semi-transparent HUD Keyboard on the display showing the split kb in relation to the fingers. This would overlay the display content but not block it entirely!

So you could:

1) finger/thumb type on edges/front and back as described above (device held by palms and heals of 2 hands)

2) thumb-type on display with any of several formats of split thumb virtual kbs (device held in 2 hands)

3) finger-type the way we do on the iPhone (device held in one hand)

4) finger/thumb-type with 2 hands on the display with a traditional virtual kb (device on lap or table)

So, it seems you have several alternative ways of keying data, depending on the needs of the app and preferences of the user for any specific situation.

Don't know the effect on carpel-tunnel, but this might just be better than a physical QWERTY-- or least an acceptable alternative to many!

*
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post #112 of 133
Typing on the back of a tablet while my thumbs and heels of my hands support it seems insanely awkward to me. I mean, I guess it's doable, but I can't imagine that Apple would inflict this on their customers.

Truth be told, any kind of controlled finger movement on the back of a tablet while holding it doesn't feel very natural or comfortable to me. Beyond a sort of crude four or three finger scrubbing gesture, it doesn't seem very practical-- I think because my hands are anchored at the heel, and to do stuff with my fingers I have to rotate my hands inward somewhat more than the more natural palms at about 90º to the floor position.

For reference, just put your hand on a table top with the heel of your hand stationary, and see how many nuanced gestures you can make with your fingers. Then up the awkward quotient by rotating your hands to palms up, which is a somewhat uncomfortable position in its own right. I think an actual implementation of such a scheme would create all kinds of repetitive stress problems.
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post #113 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Typing on the back of a tablet while my thumbs and heels of my hands support it seems insanely awkward to me. I mean, I guess it's doable, but I can't imagine that Apple would inflict this on their customers.

Truth be told, any kind of controlled finger movement on the back of a tablet while holding it doesn't feel very natural or comfortable to me. Beyond a sort of crude four or three finger scrubbing gesture, it doesn't seem very practical-- I think because my hands are anchored at the heel, and to do stuff with my fingers I have to rotate my hands inward somewhat more than the more natural palms at about 90º to the floor position.

For reference, just put your hand on a table top with the heel of your hand stationary, and see how many nuanced gestures you can make with your fingers. Then up the awkward quotient by rotating your hands to palms up, which is a somewhat uncomfortable position in its own right. I think an actual implementation of such a scheme would create all kinds of repetitive stress problems.


You would support the tablet with the palms and heals of your hand-- the thumbs would be free.

A natural position for the hands related to the rest of your arms is when your arms are relaxed at your side, the wrists, fingers, thumbs are all aligned and facing inward towards your body. Bend your elbows and bring your arms up in front of you until the hands are a few inches apart (keeping the wrists, fingers, thumbs aligned).

Imagine you are holding a tablet in your hand palms/heals. Your wrists, fingers and thumbs are still in the same natural (relaxed) alignment with each other-- the only thing that has changed is that your elbows are bent naturally, and from there down everything is horizontal instead of vertical.

In traditional kb typing you do as above, then twist your elbows and lower arms into a less-natural position with the palms facing down.

I maintain that the position for traditional typing is less-relaxed and more stressful.

To illustrate, try saying the pledge of allegiance (or saluting) with your arms twisted the way you do for typing-- so that the palms face away from you.

...or, tenHUT!, At Ease! ... smoke 'em if you got 'em!


*
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post #114 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You would support the tablet with the palms and heals of your hand-- the thumbs would be free.

A natural position for the hands related to the rest of your arms is when your arms are relaxed at your side, the wrists, fingers, thumbs are all aligned and facing inward towards your body. Bend your elbows and bring your arms up in front of you until the hands are a few inches apart (keeping the wrists, fingers, thumbs aligned).

Imagine you are holding a tablet in your hand palms/heals. Your wrists, fingers and thumbs are still in the same natural (relaxed) alignment with each other-- the only thing that has changed is that your elbows are bent and from there down everything is horizontal instead of vertical.

In traditional kb typing you do as above, then twist your elbows and lower arms into a less-natural position with the palms facing down.

I maintain that the position for traditional typing is less-relaxed and more stressful.

To illustrate, try saying the pledge of allegiance (or saluting) with your arms twisted the way you do for typing-- so that the palms face away from you.

*

OK, I misunderstood the hand position you're suggesting, but I'm still not feeling it.

When I thumb type with a phone sized device, my fingertips hold the device from behind and my thumbs are elevated-- I get a pretty good range of motion because they're sort of point down so I get 360º of joint movement (plus of course I don't have much ground to cover).

With a 10" tablet (I'm trying this with an equivalent sized notepad) having my fingers curled around the back forces my thumbs to be relatively flat-- now all I can do is sort of move them through a flat, 45º arc. Plus, my fingers on the back of the thing are now even less mobile than if I left my thumbs out of it-- I can literally do little more than draw up my finger into a claw, and then let them slide back out flat.

I dunno, maybe my hands operate differently from yours? Have you tried this with an actual object in your hands?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #115 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Funny, but I wrote a simple iPhone app (for my own amazement) that does InNOut ordering (like the guy out there).

It is a single screen app, you:

1) clear the screen
2) tally the order
3) total and transmit



I didn't include the secret menu (Animal-Style is my favorite).


The iPhone or Touch is quite powerful in its own right! We don' need no stinkin' Tablet!

There's an InNOut in Pasadena that's still in the same place since 1953-54!

*

that is what i'm talkin about... so cool !!!
post #116 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

OK, I misunderstood the hand position you're suggesting, but I'm still not feeling it.

When I thumb type with a phone sized device, my fingertips hold the device from behind and my thumbs are elevated-- I get a pretty good range of motion because they're sort of point down so I get 360º of joint movement (plus of course I don't have much ground to cover).

With a 10" tablet (I'm trying this with an equivalent sized notepad) having my fingers curled around the back forces my thumbs to be relatively flat-- now all I can do is sort of move them through a flat, 45º arc. Plus, my fingers on the back of the thing are now even less mobile than if I left my thumbs out of it-- I can literally do little more than draw up my finger into a claw, and then let them slide back out flat.

I dunno, maybe my hands operate differently from yours? Have you tried this with an actual object in your hands?


You wouldn't get the same range with your thumbs on a larger device (double the size = 4 * the area).


I have small hands, 9" from extended thumb tip to extended pinkie tip... and fat fingers.

When I bring my hands up as I described, there is about 1" between my cocked fingers and my cocked thumb.

I can easily insert a book 7-11" (or larger) book into my hands so that it is supported from the side by the heels of my hands and from the back by the palms bases of my 1st fingers.

My thumbs and fingers are still in their natural cocked positions.

Likely, my thumbs and fingers are lightly touching the front and back of the book (device).

Now, I can type normally by lifting, then pressing my fingers and thumbs (as opposed to pressing, then lifting on a standard kb)-- takes a little getting used to, but not much!

For multitouch, everything works the same by moving your cocked fingers, except the pinch motion-- you could use any 2 opposing fingers or finger and thumb (thumb on the display, finger on the back).

Now, you have at least 10 possible unique touch points on the device (more if the edges are sensitive to your palms/heels).

At any point in time, you could remove either hand and use the touch display as you do the iPhone mini virtual kb (moving the other hand, if desired, for additional support).

Or, you could set the device on the table or your lap and use a full-size QWERTY virtual kb on the display.

Try it!

The wrists, hands and fingers remain in a natural position-- like strummin', finger-pickin' or even a rasqueado!


*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #117 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

If you experiment a bit, you find you could do quite a bit more than multitouch gestures; Almost any size tablet could have a touch surface on the back (in addition to the one on the front).

You could have a virtual split QWERTY (or other) keyboard that could track the position of the hands (fingers) and determine/adjust key location as necessary,

The palms and heals of the hands would support the tablet, freeing the thumbs and fingers for data entry.

The thumbs could register by touching the edges or front of the tablet,

As a training aid, you could display a semi-transparent HUD Keyboard on the display showing the split kb in relation to the fingers. This would overlay the display content but not block it entirely!

So you could:

1) finger/thumb type on edges/front and back as described above (device held by palms and heals of 2 hands)

2) thumb-type on display with any of several formats of split thumb virtual kbs (device held in 2 hands)

3) finger-type the way we do on the iPhone (device held in one hand)

4) finger/thumb-type with 2 hands on the display with a traditional virtual kb (device on lap or table)

So, it seems you have several alternative ways of keying data, depending on the needs of the app and preferences of the user for any specific situation.

Don't know the effect on carpel-tunnel, but this might just be better than a physical QWERTY-- or least an acceptable alternative to many!

*

There's lots of ways this could be done. I just wonder how far ahead of the curve Apple wants to be.

I suppose much of this could be turned off for those who find it a bit much.
post #118 of 133
Dear lord, if Apple releases a device that obliges its users to learn a new, rear facing style of typing, and which has a vocabulary of oddball touch gestures to get things done, it'll be greeted as the Newton Redux. And not in the good way. DOA. A massive, massive misstep for a company that can seem to do no wrong.

I think surely Apple knows this, as much as they'd like to push the state of the art out a bit. I can't think of a anything they've done that has required that much new behavior on the part of the user. In the instances where they've introduced new UI paradigms-- the original Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone-- the new things have all been dead simple and easy to master within a few minutes. Point and click, click wheel, and touch and swipe. You get it within seconds.

Backwards typing and three fingers with a twist to open a file? Insanity.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #119 of 133
Having said that, I'm sure there are touch gestures which haven't occurred to us that, once demonstrated, will seem like the most natural thing in the world and will take little to no effort to master.

One thing to bear in mind is that the original Fingerworks library of gestures were developed for a touch pad, not a touch screen. They don't assume that you're getting direct feedback under your fingers, so we have to factor that in when we consider what Apple might do.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #120 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Dear lord, if Apple releases a device that obliges its users to learn a new, rear facing style of typing, and which has a vocabulary of oddball touch gestures to get things done, it'll be greeted as the Newton Redux. And not in the good way. DOA. A massive, massive misstep for a company that can seem to do no wrong.

I think surely Apple knows this, as much as they'd like to push the state of the art out a bit. I can't think of a anything they've done that has required that much new behavior on the part of the user. In the instances where they've introduced new UI paradigms-- the original Mac, the iPod, and the iPhone-- the new things have all been dead simple and easy to master within a few minutes. Point and click, click wheel, and touch and swipe. You get it within seconds.

Backwards typing and three fingers with a twist to open a file? Insanity.

I agree with you that it has to be intuitive, but I think a backside touchpad can be intuitive and useful. My fingers are free and I want to use them. without having to force grip the tablet with one hand so I can use a free hand to touch the front, or have to set it down on something to interact with it.

I dont know how this could be easily, but when I look at how perfect the copy/paste is in the iPhone when it came to making an easy to learn system that had to be engineered from the ground up I have complete faith that they arent going to use anything Newton-like for the primary method for entering text.

It could be as simple as a back-panel swipe to bring up a keyboard that scales to match where your thumbs can reach or to quickly change fields on screen without having to directly touch a finger on that field before you can enter text.
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