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post #81 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Humans have this wonderful thing called a neck. Wouldn't a touch screen in a traditional laptop orientation be even worse? how would you interact with that?

Well my neck doesn't like being bent at strange angles for extended periods of time. Nor to my wrists and elbows. Some other parts of my body like it just fine, but that's not important right now.
post #82 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Totally agree. Gates also deserves some recognition for maintaining belief that the tablet is the future, even if his company couldn't produce the product that made his words reality. He has continually and insistently said the tablet computer is the future of computing.

Yes. I have to acknowledge Gates on this one thing. Also, your sig might just turn out to be true Ireland.
post #83 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Humans have this wonderful thing called a neck. Wouldn't a touch screen in a traditional laptop orientation be even worse? how would you interact with that?

Humans have a wonderful thing called arms but I dont want to type above my head, just as I dont want to keep for neck crooked for hours on end when a PC is better designed for comfort and usability.
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post #84 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

And Apple again seems to have not the worst parcel ever to get started with unearthing of what valuable could be in there.

Come again?
post #85 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is really unlikely given that the Apple product with the closest form factor to the tablet right now (the Air) has only one USB port.

It will have probably have an iPhone dock connector also, so there will be no need for an extra video out port. If there is no need, it won't be included. Apple is usually very anal about that kind of thing.

Personally, I doubt that it will have any connectors other than a headphone jack and a dock connector.

A dock connector?!? You mean, like, built-in? You slide your iPhone down into it, and it either stands up or sticks out horizontally? How un-Apple is that?!?!?

Especially given that you can accomplish the same task by providing a USB port (which your iPhone can plug into with the provided cable, not to mention other periripherals, if you wish.

I'm glad YOU aren't in charge of Apple design! Adding a kludgy dock-connector to a sleek tablet makes zero sense.


EDIT: OK, I take it all back... I'm the stupid one today. Feeling kind of dense. You, of course, meant a female dock connector like what is found on the iPhone so that you can use it in a similar way. Agreed.



Thompson
post #86 of 201
I haven't read all the replies here, but I am way confused at the number of people on here alledgedly wanting to run CS4 on a 10.1" slate computer... You're kidding me, right?? Imagine trying to use a CS4 app on tiny 10 inch Mac with a mouse and keyboard - sounds painful. And then take away the mouse and keyboard. Sounds like a bloody nightmare.
post #87 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizz View Post

I haven't read all the replies here, but I am way confused at the number of people on here alledgedly wanting to run CS4 on a 10.1" slate computer... You're kidding me, right?? Imagine trying to use a CS4 app on tiny 10 inch Mac with a mouse and keyboard - sounds painful. And then take away the mouse and keyboard. Sounds like a bloody nightmare.

This is just the beginning of what we're bound to hear when this device actually appears. The general gist is that if the thing doesn't do precisely what any given individual wants to do, in precisely the way they want to do it, that it's product fail.
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post #88 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Humans have a wonderful thing called arms but I dont want to type above my head, just as I dont want to keep for neck crooked for hours on end when a PC is better designed for comfort and usability.

What are you planning on using a tablet for that would require you to keep your neck crooked for hours?
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post #89 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizz View Post

I haven't read all the replies here, but I am way confused at the number of people on here alledgedly wanting to run CS4 on a 10.1" slate computer... You're kidding me, right?? Imagine trying to use a CS4 app on tiny 10 inch Mac with a mouse and keyboard - sounds painful. And then take away the mouse and keyboard. Sounds like a bloody nightmare.

You are right - CS4 apps will never run on a 10" tablet, whatever people here say. That's just stupid, period. I think the idea of the imminent announcement of the alleged tablet have made people go nuts. I think it a distinct possibility that Adobe or Apple or somebody else will make a basic image / photo manipulation app that works on the tablet. Basic being the operative word.
post #90 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

I still have questions about the overall ergonomic soundness of these (any) tablets. Are you supposed to hold it in one hand while you interface with the screen using the other hand? Won't the holding hand get tired? Set it on the table and the screen no longer faces your eyes. Hold it in your lap and again screen not oriented to your face.

I just don't see how this sort of physical human interface is any kind of improvement over the laptop with an adjustable screen that can be angled to best suit the user.

You would use it the same way as a pad of paper. Something humans have been doing since long before computers were invented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

You are right - CS4 apps will never run on a 10" tablet, whatever people here say. That's just stupid, period. I think the idea of the imminent announcement of the alleged tablet have made people go nuts. I think it a distinct possibility that Adobe or Apple or somebody else will make a basic image / photo manipulation app that works on the tablet. Basic being the operative word.

In terms of CPU power, an ARM A9 (or whatever powers the iSlate) cannot compete with the latest Intel desktop / laptop chips. There will definitely be limitations with what an iSlate can realistically do. However, you should still be able to write some pretty good apps. It doesn't have to be all basic apps.
post #91 of 201
Apples soon to be unveiled Mac Touch will do just fine in its computing line up, all the skepticism surrounding it by the windows camp, wanting it to fail, this is like Pre iPhone launch back in 2007.
post #92 of 201
great guessing game, the name.

bet it is one word, two syllables ("iPod touch" has never really caught on, too long, everyone just says "the touch").

bet the first syllable is either "i" or "Mac" (ok, pretty obvious).

and the second syllable? iTab is owned by someone else, but MacTab is available. iTouch might be confusing, but MacTouch is possible. iBook and MacBook have both been used before, so no. "Slate" i really can't believe - that implies writing, a stylus. iPad or MacPad are both available.

were it up to me, i'd name it the iPad, to take maximum advantage of the iPod's popularity. but of course it is up to Steve.
post #93 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

great guessing game, the name.

How about iPod Slate?

After all it is supposed to be an iPhone/iPod Touch on steroids.
post #94 of 201
Somehow it has fallen into oblivion that the iPhone OS is a Mac OS X. Yes, a tiny one for sure, but never the less Mac OS X. Apple did an amazing job squeezing Mac OS X into the iPhone with 128 MB of system RAM at the beginning and still leaving enough space for solid games and applications. And to create a rich user interface that works with this tiny screen and touch control.

The tablet has much fewer restrictions: Bigger screen, more CPU and GPU power and probably more RAM. Apple has managed to cope with the low end (iPhone). Apple should be able to create an appropriate UI for the new baby as well. It would be easy to just use the Mac OS X, but the result would some kind of mini MacBook and no tablet. I want and expect a UI that fits to this new "form factor".
post #95 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

How about iPod Slate?

After all it is supposed to be an iPhone/iPod Touch on steroids.

How about Apple Book

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post #96 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Motion Computing products are indeed the only tablets out there. Everything, which has the keyboard is not a tablet. Everything, which is for media distribution only (readers, for example), is not, strictly speaking, a computer and can't count in the history of computing.

False. First other folks besides Motion make slates. Viewsonic, Tablet Kiosk and Fujitsu to name three off the cuff...not including the new slates from HP, dell, etc seen at CES.

Second, convertible tablets ARE tablets. Hence the "tablet" in the name. When fllipped they act just like slates, just a little heavier and thicker due to the keyboard. The key requirement is some kind of ink technology to capture user input and a digitizer to provide that input.

From your definition then the upcoming iSlate wont be a tablet either.
post #97 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

It will not be a "fully functional computer". Why would Apple essentially kill, or severely damage, its MacBook line? We will have to wait and see who's predictions are the closest to reality. In any event those who expect this device to be some be-all, do-all gadget are going to be sorely disappointed.

Why do you think it would severely damage the Macbook line? That's like saying the Macbooks severely damage the Macbook Pro line. Different computers for different needs. Apple has only a vague concept of this, which is why their market share is so small. If they offered products like a mid range tower or a true netbook their market share would skyrocket. Margins would go down slightly, but they're so high to begin with and if they're selling twice as many computers no one would care!

Assuming the rumors are somewhat true, Apple seems to be intentionally crippling the iSlate (or iKindle, Macbook Wheel, whatever)

People want a small, light, affordable computer they can take anywhere. The best Apple can do is one out of the three - the Macbook Air. While light and sleek, it is very expensive and has a huge footprint.
post #98 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Yes. I have to acknowledge Gates on this one thing. Also, your sig might just turn out to be true Ireland.

Hopefully so.
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post #99 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The general gist is that if the thing doesn't do precisely what any given individual wants to do, in precisely the way they want to do it, that it's product fail.

100% correct!

Nearly all the flame ridden, internet forum, arguments about Apple ... boil down to just two things.

1. If an Apple product doesn't fulfil my needs, it will be a commercial failure.

2. If I don't like Apple's business practice then it must be illegal.
post #100 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

100% correct!

Nearly all the flame ridden, internet forum, arguments about Apple ... boil down to just two things.

1. If an Apple product doesn't fulfil my needs, it will be a commercial failure.

so true.

but some of us come from the other direction. if the new iPad/whatever were just an enlarged Touch i'd buy it, since that is all i absolutely need. and that's true for enough consumers that it would be a commercial success. i think it is very safe to assume it will do everything the Touch can.

but most everyone else is hoping/demanding a breakthrough product that goes a lot beyond that. reportedly, even Steve J. so the genuine debate revolves around what would be a real "breakthrough." and what would excite/change the marketplace like the iPhone did.

wish i knew. gotta wait two weeks.
post #101 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

Why do you think it would severely damage the Macbook line? That's like saying the Macbooks severely damage the Macbook Pro line. Different computers for different needs. Apple has only a vague concept of this, which is why their market share is so small. If they offered products like a mid range tower or a true netbook their market share would skyrocket. Margins would go down slightly, but they're so high to begin with and if they're selling twice as many computers no one would care!

Assuming the rumors are somewhat true, Apple seems to be intentionally crippling the iSlate (or iKindle, Macbook Wheel, whatever)

People want a small, light, affordable computer they can take anywhere. The best Apple can do is one out of the three - the Macbook Air. While light and sleek, it is very expensive and has a huge footprint.

I think Apple knows their own business best. Both mid range desktops and netbooks have razor thin margins. I seem to remember Acer only having a 2% profit margin as a result of their netbook sales. Apple is not in the low margin high volume business, and I'm glad. Most companies that are produce absolute garbage.

Edit: All that said, a mid range tower would be nice, but understand why they don't make one.
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post #102 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I think Apple knows their own business best. Both mid range desktops and netbooks have razor thin margins. I seem to remember Acer only having a 2% profit margin as a result of their netbook sales. Apple is not in the low margin high volume business, and I'm glad. Most companies that are produce absolute garbage.

Edit: All that said, a mid range tower would be nice, but understand why they don't make one.

Why do you think Apple wouldn't apply their notorious high margins (aka Apple Tax) to netbooks and a mid-range tower? A $700 10-11" netbook and a $1400 mid range tower would both be profitable and popular. I'd buy the tower for sure, but will not spend almost $2700 on a MacPro. Again different needs.

Almost everyone agrees Macs are better than PCs but Mac market share continues to be a blip. Their very limited product range is a huge reason for that.
post #103 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is really unlikely given that the Apple product with the closest form factor to the tablet right now (the Air) has only one USB port.

It will have probably have an iPhone dock connector also, so there will be no need for an extra video out port. If there is no need, it won't be included. Apple is usually very anal about that kind of thing.

Personally, I doubt that it will have any connectors other than a headphone jack and a dock connector.

The Air was aimed at being the thinnest. The Tablet aims at being a revolutionary badass.

As such, it WILL NOT be a jumbo iPhone, so no dock connector or iPhone OS

2 (fine, one) USB, MagSafe, MDP, MiniJack

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post #104 of 201
Based on others' comments and weeks of rumor bits, we may be heading into a
software paradigm shift with an Apple tablet because ...
- apps (building on the iPhone app/iTS ecosystem; rumor of an iWork version; no longer necessary to convince Microsoft, Adobe, et al, especially with all those iPhone app developers; e.g., it may be easier for some small, hungry, shop to scale up their iPhone photo editing apps than the big software companies who probably can't see creating a version for an Apple tablet platform; for example, while CS4 will stay on desktops, other devs will create for consumers, pre-pro-level, and maybe an adjunct to CS4)
- new platform (OS X gesture-based, mainly touch and proximity-gesturing; also voice and maybe pen--likely for a later version)

... the beginning of an evolution to where things are headed whether one likes it or not?
post #105 of 201
Also, keep in mind that Apple and Jobs have no problem ending a product line, from the Newton to completely replacing the iPod mini at its prime with the nano. So cannibalism may not be much of a concern for Apple. They may end one of their laptop lines and replace it with a new product line.
post #106 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

The Air was aimed at being the thinnest. The Tablet aims at being a revolutionary badass.

As such, it WILL NOT be a jumbo iPhone, so no dock connector or iPhone OS

2 (fine, one) USB, MagSafe, MDP, MiniJack

You're underestimating just how capable the iPhone OS really is.
post #107 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

You are right - CS4 apps will never run on a 10" tablet, whatever people here say. That's just stupid, period. I think the idea of the imminent announcement of the alleged tablet have made people go nuts. I think it a distinct possibility that Adobe or Apple or somebody else will make a basic image / photo manipulation app that works on the tablet. Basic being the operative word.

Either a basic image app, or even a better an app that allows the iSlate to be used as a pressure sensitive drawing graphic tablet in conjunction with an app running on your Mac
post #108 of 201
iSlate really is quite a shit name! I do hope they call it something else.
post #109 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

Why do you think Apple wouldn't apply their notorious high margins (aka Apple Tax) to netbooks and a mid-range tower?

Apple does not "tax" its own products. The Mac, iPod and iPhone are no more expensive than similarly equipped gear from other reputable vendors. A tax is something levied by an authority to collect money on a variety of transactions under its control. Microsoft taxes PCs because it controls an operating system monopoly. Apple has no capacity to "tax" any market.


Quote:
A $700 10-11" netbook and a $1400 mid range tower would both be profitable and popular. I'd buy the tower for sure, but will not spend almost $2700 on a MacPro. Again different needs.

Netbooks are getting hyped and selling, but they are not profitable for anyone. Apple used to sell $1400 mini towers called "Performa," which is why it almost went out of business. Nobody is making money selling either outside of teenage PC DIY kids who screw together components without a warranty. (Because servicing a warranty would kill their profits).

Quote:
Almost everyone agrees Macs are better than PCs but Mac market share continues to be a blip. Their very limited product range is a huge reason for that.

Macs have around 7% market share even when you throw in PC servers, cash registers and the tons of cheap netbooks being dumped into the market. Apple makes $1 out of every $5 spent in the US on computers. Apple effectively sells pretty much all the PCs over $1000. If that's a "blip," then we need to redefine that word. Every PC maker wants to be Apple, they just don't know how. Apple very clearly does not want to be Dell or HP or Acer or it would be taking your advice and pumping out a bunch of half baked ideas from the 90s to satisfy guys over 40 rather than to build a real business and maintain consistent progress.
post #110 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustReelFilms View Post

Tell me what chip that's more energy efficient than ARM? No the Intel Atom is not one of them.

ARM is not a chip. Nor is it a single chip design/architecture. You'd have to be a lot more specific.
post #111 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

iSlate really is quite a shit name! I do hope they call it something else.

You need not worry, they will not call it iSlate. When the prince mentioned iBook I had to giggle.
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post #112 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Well, the hugissime material titled "history of tablet computing" somewhat surprisingly makes it apparent, that there was no tablet in the history of computing.

For starters, nobody knows how to sell tablets (hoping to see your market analysis, Prince). Yup, it seldom matters how good a product is inside itself. It's always about how you're going to sell it. There're now Apple's 70/30 scheme, persistent DRM compliance, Apple's notoriety in inviting content providers and distribution (carriers), some other cherries on top of cake, too.

Then, there's no a single ubuntu on the market so far, which could have reached sufficient degree of modularity to successfully fit the form factor. Apple seems to be first to have bred the gang of their cats to make this happen.

Gestures. We're just at the very beginning of the commercial civil exploration on this branch of human-machine interaction design and ergonomics. And Apple again seems to have not the worst parcel ever to get started with unearthing of what valuable could be in there.

For some reason Appleinsider missed a few of the real, slate-style tablets out there. Most are used in rather specialized industries though. An example i used in another thread, motion computing, markets primarily to the medical arena. There are companies that market to the automotive arena too, etc.
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post #113 of 201
Apple will succeed where others have failed because Apple now has the maturity (in no small part because of Steve Jobs' own growth and maturity). I am truly looking forward to Apple making history with a new way to interact with computers. That is, the use of finger gestures have the potential to dramatically improve the use of tablet-like PCs. Here's an article indicating similar things...

http://www.alltabletnews.com/2010/01...k-replacement/
post #114 of 201
If you haven't seen this, please do so... watch the video... Apple has been working on this for longer than anyone thinks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bryan-..._b_416960.html

I have videos from the 80's which again show the tablet concept work. Look on the bottom right..

http://homepage.mac.com/amcintosh/eb...ppletapes2.jpg

eme if interested in seeing the long lost Apple videos of their tablet visions...
post #115 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You need not worry, they will not call it iSlate. When the prince mentioned iBook I had to giggle.

See you mentioned that a device using the "iBook" name would have to be a hinged before. But i disagree.

If this takes off as an ebook reader, we are redefining what a book is, what a book will be, not what a book was.
Books of old had a hinged design because 'technology' dictated it's physical shape, due to having to accommodate physical pages. But no longer are we dictated to, there are no reasons why a hinge is required, a one page design is adequate for purpose.
I seriously doubt that the future of books is hinged shape, it's more likely to resemble a flat or rolled single page.
So by your philosophy the future of the word 'book' is in jeopardy as you are tying the word book to it's traditional physical mechanism, and not to it's function. In my opinion something that is used predominantly as a book, which functions as a book, can be described as a book.

There are better reasons why Apple would not reuse the iBook name IMO. With the multiple target markets Apple are likely seeking with this device, a more multipurpose name may be more appropriate.
post #116 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

What are you planning on using a tablet for that would require you to keep your neck crooked for hours?

Im not, which is why no tablet will be a replacement for any laptop and why I dont see an exploding tablet market unless Apple does have new paradigms for input, SW and services for a 21.1 Century tablet.
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post #117 of 201
The ultimate question about the tablet is whether it's a primary (full mac) or secondary (jumbo iPod) device, or an interesting mix. I predict mix, accomplished by constant hooks back into your main system.

Multitasking and file management work at this form factor.

Back to My Mac could make an appearance. Full document syncing.

What about Grand Central tying into Xgrid, using your main system to run processor-intensive tasks?

I take it for granted that Apple has solutions to the input and ergonomics side of things.
post #118 of 201
It would seem that most would find common ground on some points:

(1) Steven Jobs is not interested in running with the pack, even a pack of which he might currently be top dog.

(2) Apple will surely leverage the iTunes store.

(3) Current iPhone/iTouch applications will run on the device (if there is one ).

(4) The MacTouch (thanks Ireland!) will not cannibalise existing sales.

(5) The MacTouch will not be an owner's primary phone!!! \

(6) The device will run a unique OS that is based on OS X.

(7,...,n) Points that I haven't mentioned!

So, how about some more that we might not all agree on:

(n+1) This might be Steven Jobs' (generation's) last opportunity to lay out a practical (as in - with actual hardware) vision for the future of (personal) computing.

(n+2) Hardware and software will rapidly become vastly more powerful and capable.

(n+3) The MacTouch could act as a window (sorry for the term) on the high level computing capability of other systems including notebooks, desktops, supercomputers and the cloud including systems running any particular OS.

This happens now. The browser on my computer interacts with any number of other computers running operating systems that I know nothing about. Perhaps the MacTouch will do this for personal (local and distributed) computing. For all intents and purposes, I might be running iTunes (locally) or CS4 (remotely) or Photoshop or Mathematica or whatever. All this and not restricted to a particular OS.

Then, as time goes on, more functionality comes on board, while access grows to other vastly more capable software residing elsewhere. I might pay a fee for using particular software on a particular computing system anywhere on Earth from which I can reach it. A supercomputer in my hands. Computing centres could spring up offering all sorts of services - probably however, Apple would offer the most capability! Once companies such as Adobe realise that perhaps they stand to profit much more from services than just selling (very expensive) software, they'll come on board and add amazing handheld feature oriented client software also.

Most of the useful output from a computer can be displayed in the form of an image, a table or a graph, a video or a sound, an alert or text say - all or most of which I would have thought, would be suited to a 10" display.

With the services that Apple has put in place (a requirement I believe, that Steven Jobs has been quoted as saying were essential for tablet computing) and the industrial design that would be brought to bear, Apple would command this space, even in spite of all the tablet/handheld designs out there.

If everyone who owns a computer bought this handheld window on worldwide computing and on their own system, Apple would have 100% of the market!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VelSatis23 View Post

I just don´t see the point in a tablet. Let the iPhone have a bigger screen, maybe 5 inches, at best 7, make it more usable with more processing power and please let it have a better batterie...

No point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

It will not be a "fully functional computer". Why would Apple essentially kill, or severely damage, its MacBook line? ...

Apple won't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizz View Post

I haven't read all the replies here, but I am way confused at the number of people on here alledgedly wanting to run CS4 on a 10.1" slate computer... You're kidding me, right?? Imagine trying to use a CS4 app on tiny 10 inch Mac with a mouse and keyboard - sounds painful. And then take away the mouse and keyboard. Sounds like a bloody nightmare.

It could virtually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Apples soon to be unveiled Mac Touch will do just fine in its computing line up, all the skepticism surrounding it by the windows camp, wanting it to fail, this is like Pre iPhone launch back in 2007.

I think so too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clochard View Post

Somehow it has fallen into oblivion that the iPhone OS is a Mac OS X...

I want and expect a UI that fits to this new "form factor".

I think we agree on this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I’m not, which is why no tablet will be a replacement for any laptop and why I don’t see an exploding tablet market unless Apple does have new paradigms for input, SW and services for a 21.1 Century tablet.

The MacTouch will not replace your MB but what a great team they'd be!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldonius View Post

The ultimate question about the tablet is whether it's a primary (full mac) or secondary (jumbo iPod) device, or an interesting mix. I predict mix, accomplished by constant hooks back into your main system.

Multitasking and file management work at this form factor.

Back to My Mac could make an appearance. Full document syncing.

What about Grand Central tying into Xgrid, using your main system to run processor-intensive tasks?

I take it for granted that Apple has solutions to the input and ergonomics side of things.

Exactly!
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post #119 of 201
I've been waiting to change my old Macbook and my old iPhone 3G. Counting the days.....
post #120 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

100% correct!

Nearly all the flame ridden, internet forum, arguments about Apple ... boil down to just two things.

1. If an Apple product doesn't fulfil my needs, it will be a commercial failure.

2. If I don't like Apple's business practice then it must be illegal.

Well put.
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