iPhone OS 4.0 could see 'imminent' release, developer hints - Page 4

I really hope so. Having to quit a game just to answer an IM is really not ideal, and rather irritating.

amen


btw, your name makes me warm and fuzzy

get it ?

Apparently, yes. Excellent downside management, I dare call that.

Dumb people might get frightened. The average user might be curious the first time, and then either use or not use the feature the second time.

You and Apple are seemingly so concerned about the stupidest possible user that functionality is denied to average users.

I paid a shitload of money for the device. It belongs to me. I want all the control.

I do not want Apple to be my nanny and protect me from "geekiness and chaos". They are not real dangers in my world. I don't want to be transported to the world of the stupid and needy who like having a nanny watch over them.

It is entirely possible for the device to be simple to use AND to have advanced functionality. It is NOT laudable to strip functionality in the name of simplicity. They are not mutually exclusive.

See, I never understand these kinds of arguments.

Was Apple "aloof" when they released the original iPhone?


Perhaps, perhaps they aren't fully baked yet. That's my point.


Your absolutely right it's up to Apple how they releases new features. My point is, they will do it when it makes sense in the context of the overall experience. Apple rarely is reactionary to their competitors - indeed, the majority of the time it's the competitors that are reacting to Apple - and for good reason. Many of the killer "features" that have been cited as compelling on Android and the Pre in actually are just incremental checklist features that matter mainly to geeks. The evidence is in the sales (or lack of) of these devices compared to the iPhone.

If Apple was as arrogant or incompetent at releasing features as half of the people in these threads continually imply, then that means the last three iPhone releases were total flukes

You bought an iPhone because.....??

We all paid a shitload of money for the device. Being astute buyers, we all did our research and got what we paid for-- a quality product that performs as advertized... better actually, as it has been updated, over time, with no sacrifice to the original function or quality.

Most would agree that the device satisfies the majority of users because Apple limits the changes that can be made to the device after the sale.

Few would argue that the device does everything everyone wants,

We all know that functionality (implementation of this or that feature) has a cost to develop, test, maintain and support-- and a projected benefit for that cost.

But it is irrational, (and tiresome) for us to insist that the device must be totally open with a "make it do what I want and do it my way" solution-- at the expense millions of other users.

Those of us who desire more openness and less control can re-sell the device for a shitload of money, because the device, "as advertised" has a high resale value.

Having done that, and shopping for an open device with total user control, we should take extra care in the selection, because it, likely, will not be upgradeable, nor will it maintain a high resale value-- we will be stuck with our choice... it will belong to us!

•

The 3GS was easily the best existing choice at the time of purchase (which is no longer the case...). And because Verizon reception is not good sitting here at my desk in front of my computer.

Anything else?

No, I don't think that is the reason why the device satisfies the majority of users. Indeed, I would venture that reason ain't got hardly nothing to do with "satsifaction of the majority".



You seem to be missing the point entirely. This is not a binary world where flexibility and options are always "at the expense of the majority". To think that these limited choices are the ONLY choices is irrational.

Here's my point: It is not impossible to make a full-featured device which is easy to use. A great device could be made with advanced functionality which is transparent to disinterested users. To be truly great, basic functionality should be intuitive to novice and stupid users. (Some might argue that the current Mac meets this description).

There is no dichotomy between "easy to use" and "full functionality". I believe your premise is defective.

So, any developer should be able to distribute an app that is able to modify, replace or remove any existing app-- say, the phone app, browser app, contacts app... And, the developer's app should be able to replace any and all components of the GUI with whatever arcane menu system he desires.

This, certainly would impact the usability and desirability of the device. It would create chaos, and fragment the market for the device.


I understand the point... it's just that my idea of flexibility is different than yours. Sure, I want more multitasking-- but not at the expense of battery life or usability. I also want IR and RFID capability-- shouldn't that trump what you want?

Apple provides a given set of functions and a given amount of flexibility. They do this with an implied warranty that the device will function as advertised.

They can (and have) expended additional resources to improve the functionality and usability without compromising the base product.

It is their device-- they can decide when/what/how to include features!

If this doesn't meet our needs, we can seek satisfaction elsewhere. It's called free enterprise!


I have no problem with "easy to use" and "full functionality". But this costs resources and $ for an expected return. Apple has chosen the combination that they expect will give them the best ROI, over time.

Who's definition of full functionality are we to use-- yours, mine or the guy with his "pants on the ground"?

I never text, so, let's remove that and replace it with whatever I want... screw everyone else!

You or I can buy a Droid or Nexus 1, and get more functionality... why don't we do that? I know my reasons! I suspect that you don't think there is enough additional value, today, and that you will not be able to upgrade or re-sell it in the future.

*

That isnt how life works. If you want complete control then format and install Linux on it, but what ever you do stop bitching that Apple makes a complete solution for the average user who just wants a smartphone that works as advertised.

Then you should be able to sell your iPhone and get something else pretty easily. Resale for iPhones, as others have pointed out, is really good.


So get a one of the better smart phones already.


I could ask but I think we both know it would be pointless.

Yeah. And you're so interested in establishing the negatives of Apple's customers that it precludes you from noticing when someone is being a bit tongue in cheek.

But of course without defining "full functionality" you're just waving your hands and creating a fake standard that the iPhone of course fails to meet.

There's no such thing as "full functionality", there's only specific devices and what they can or cannot do. Since the design of such devices is always a matter of multiple tradeoffs, different designers are going to differ in what they choose to do. It may not have occurred to you, but it's just possible that the iPhone's status as "best at the time" and the philosophical underpinnings of its design might be related. As in the relentless pursuit of making the thing as easy to use and intuitive as humanly possible based on a clearly defined set of user cases is exactly why the iPhone is what it is, why it's so popular, and why it's become the template for the industry. At any rate, your blithe assurance that Apple could make exactly the same phone with all kinds of extra tinkery bits cleverly hidden from the casual user is exactly the kind of thing that makes the people who actually have to make all the tough decisions about design tradeoffs laugh hard.

Very clearly, for the majority of use cases, Apple has designed a device that does what it says it will do, out of the box, and does it well. Surprisingly, many people seem to like that. I have no idea what compels you to argue that such people are stupid or wrong somehow, or that Apple is in some way obliged to provide more opportunities to tinker, or that such opportunities constitute a universal standard of proper functionality. As others have pointed out, there are now phones on Verizon that should provide you with the experience you want, which should make everything OK, yeah?

I'm not going to bother because addabox has already ripped your argument to shreds, but for a guy called "iGenius," you sure make some dumb arguments and for someone arguing on a forum about Apple design, you sure don't seem to know much about either Apple or design.

It's pretty obvious to any designer what choices were made and why in regards flipping up down and sideways. To argue that any random screen could use an upward or downward flip is to miss the whole point of the UI design of the iPhone. Try to think about what you're saying before you say it maybe?

As for your idea about their *not* being a dichotomy in regards "full functionality" versus what the dumber/simpler users need I'd like to see you come up with a good example of same instead of just stating it as fact. The only example I can think of at the moment is that of the one-button/two-button mouse functionality, but that particular design choice is almost universally lambasted by Apple critics like yourself.

Found this.

So you found a year old mockup.

That is one of the nicer mockups that have been around for awhile, though I think going that thin is still aways off while still getting the same or better performance from the HW.

Well, I dunno about any of those specifics.

But generally in terms of "allowed to distribute", I'd say "yes". Please note that there is no way in hell to prevent anybody from distributing anything. Please also note that anybody can and does distribute any software they want for your Mac, with little ill effect.

And note that the Palm Pilot allowed many of the things you mention, which is one of the main reasons for its long-lasting success.

And besides, the question is not what people should be able to distribute. I was disputing your statement that: "Most would agree that the device satisfies the majority of users because Apple limits the changes that can be made to the device after the sale." I was not championing the making of patchwork quilts with badly designed software.


Then fer chrissakes don't use multitasking. I've said a zillion times that this has already been implemented for the iPhone in a simple manner. And that there is no dichotomy between full(er) functionality and performance or ease of use.


Sorry. I'm not sure what sort of a hierarchy you're talking about. Your original point, so I thought, was that additional functionality would make the device worse.




It is not theirs anymore. I find your attitude to be bizarre.


You seem to have this exactly backwards.


It is because I am an ATT customer for the duration. None of the current Android phones work with ATT's 3G. Once ATT gets in their 5 Android phones, I'll take a look at them. I usually keep a phone for the length of the contract. The only exception was a WinMo phone, which I got rid of because I didn't like it. I got a used Palm Treo on eBay to replace it. So I don't really think much about resale value or use it as a factor in my decisions.

You seem to be under the delusion that Apple is your company and the company should bend to your needs. Yes, when you buy a product you own it and you do what you want with it, but dont expect support when you violate the intended use of the device.

Your expectation of Apple to allow you and and everyone else to install any and all apps while still making them responsible for overnight shipments and repairs of the device because you think the average user should be allowed to install Flash, Java, have access to root, etc. is just your feeling of entitlement, but that isnt reality.

How about this? You jailbreak it and do what you wish while taking the risk that that you might not support if you do something stupid; or you not buy an iPhone knowing that Apple isnt building a device to suit your geeky fetish but a device that is suited for the average consumer, as shown by the massive growth of the smartphone market since the emergence of the iPhone. Regardless, stop your bitching.

Time makes it less effective? Maybe your wife should dump you because she had you last year. You're old news man.

Can't wait for iChat video!

I'm not aware that installing an alternative OS is a possibility. I think a better strategy is to wait for the ATT Android phones and then check them out to see if one may be a better choice for me. In the meantime, the iPhone, warts and all, is clearly my best choice.

And if you don't like to hear me, you have a complete solution available to you. I'll continue to reade your posts, however. You occasionally have an interesting perspective.

Yeah, but none of the better phones work on ATT, and I'm locked into them for another 1.5 years. If I had the choices then that I have now, I'd check out TMob to see if their reception is good in the Boston area.

Sorry for being obtuse. I didn't realize. Excuse me for mistaking your comments for those of the rabid fanbois who are currently piling on and moving the goalposts.

Yes, they were. jobs has stated several times over the years that Apple doesn't compete with others, just with themselves.

That's certainly aloof.


i know your point. I also know software development.


Don't try to turn my argument against me. It won't work. Apple, like many developers is sitting on features that are already finished and waiting for release. While, so far, no one phone has caught up the public's imagination as the iPhone's have, collectively, their sales are significant. It's useless to contend those sales won't continue to rise. every sale for one company means one less sale for another. It's impossible to insist those sales aren't coming from Apple, even if Apple's sales rise nicely.

Apple doesn't produce products in a vacuum. We've been laughing at Palm's Rubinstein for stating that he doesn't pay attention to Apple. It would be just as funny to think that Apple doesn't pay attention to Palm and others. Of course they do. But, by thinking that iPhone sales are impregnable, they will eventually see that they are not.

So, if Apple has a feature finished that people are clamoring about, release it. Making a slightly smaller splash in late June isn't a big deal.


You miss the point. Of course Apple is releasing good upgrades once a year. Few are denying that. The point I'm making is that not everything needs to await a major upgrade.

Eh pre-release software??? All I said was that there's at least one example where Apple had provided [discounted] hardware early to developers. I didn't imply that it was an automatic entitlement related to any ADC membership. If there is a tablet, there's a fair chance that carefully selected 3rd parties have been given the change to try their software on it.

And, your reasons would be?


I think it's you who is missing that point.

There's a difference between enhanced functionality that is additional to the normal functionality, that can be turned on by those who know what it is, and need it. Or, only used when desired, like C/paste. Adding that didn't make anything more complex for people not using it.. Adding video doesn't make using the still camera more complex.

Saying that this is easy is wrong. Some major features requite a major rewrite.

But adding a feature such as multitasking does affect every single user. Unless, somehow, Apple could have that function turned off in such a way that only those who really want it could understand how to turn it on, if it didn't work that well, everyone would be negatively impacted.

So far, every review of every phone that does this has had comments about battery life, slowdowns, stuttering in music playback or video etc. Not all phones exhibiting all of the problems, but all phones showing some. But managing this stuff isn't as easy as you say.

Apple's customers are more critical than are customers of other products. The smallest imperfection is howled about here, when on other products, the problems are often much worse.

Why is that? It's because Apple's customers expect the products to be perfect. As that's not possible, they complain at every small thing.

Honestly, few people expect Android phones to be perfect, and they aren't. But problems with those phones wouldn't pass muster from an Apple product. So Google gets away with a lot of crap in Android that Apple could never get away with. The same thing is true for other companies products.

If resale value isn't important to you, then why should the termination fee be important? That makes no sense. In reading your posts, you seem to be really unhappy. If so, take the loss, and cut out. Sell your phone, and go where you'll be happy. Waiting another year and a half, when the past six months seem to have been such a drag is nuts. If you really think that an Android phone, with all of their problems would be better, then just do it already.

By the time you'll be ready to jump, Apple will have leapfrogged over them again, and then your excuse will have disappeared. So, do it now before that happens later this year, and again next year.

I'd like to see location-based home screens. I don't want the three pages of games to be visible when I'm at work, I don't need the tube map app unless I'm in London, and I'd the National Rail app to be most accessible when I'm on a train or near the station. Naturally all apps should be available through Spotlight regardless of location.

At the very least home screens should either be up, down, left, right and diagonals rather than linear, or perhaps being able to tap one of the home screen dots to jump to a distant right home screen for example would help too.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything was easy.

I think that Apple is capable of what I DID suggest. You may think it is beyond their capabilities, but I disagree.


Again, I think it could be accomplished by Apple. You may think that they would implement it in a manner where "everyone would be negatively impacted", but I disagree. Indeed, some kid in his bedroom has already made it available in an unobtrusive package that nobody other than those who really want it need download.



Again, I never said it was easy. Why do folks here constantly argue against points that I never made? It seems like they regurgitate half-baked points, attribute them to me, and then cut them down.

The resale value is unimportant because I keep phones for the life of the contract. The termination fee is important because it is a barrier to switching prior to the end of the contract.


I may do just that if ATT introduces some great Android phones. If not, and if the iPhone is the best device at expiration, I'll get another iPhone.

And in the meantime, I'll continue to identify good and bad aspects of various platforms, even within the range of the hear-no-evil fanbois.

It's certainly not beyond, but it means it takes more time.


You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I said just the opposite. I said that they WON'T release it until they believe they got it right, just like C/paste, and other late features.


It's because when you complain about a "missing" feature, you do it in a way that presupposes that Apple can "just do it".

What we're trying to explain is that things don't "just happen" because some people want it. Some things are hard to do properly. You can look at a lot of these features on other phones and see that a lot of it doesn't work well, even though the feature is there.

Since other manufacturers are coming out with models that are unrelated to their other models, if they get it wrong in some, they can change it in others. All those phones may be offered for sale at the same time. It's confusing. That's why we see the reviews often referring to other phones in a line-up, where the reviewer is wondering why they all do the same thing differently.

Apple doesn't do that. They want to get it right the first time, so that all the phones will have the same methodology, and so that future phones will too. That makes it easier for developers, who don't have to worry about how something will work, and users, who will know how it works all of the time.

That's worth waiting for.

So sell the phone and recover the termination fee, which should be prorated anyway. You may come out ahead.


It's no a matter of fanbois, it's a matter of unfair criticism that isn't even entirely correct.