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Apple restricting 3G VoIP, not AT&T...

post #1 of 76
Thread Starter 
http://www.iClarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=7187
post #2 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

http://www.iClarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=7187

It's a blog that references 9 to 5 Mac:

http://www.9to5mac.com/iPhone-skype-...ntelligence%29

Just because Apple won't allow a Skype app on the iPhone doesn't mean it's Apple behind the decision. Wouldn't the good folks at 9 to 5 Mac at least have considered the possibility that it was AT&T that has forbidden the Skype app from appearing?
post #3 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

It's a blog that references 9 to 5 Mac:

http://www.9to5mac.com/iPhone-skype-...ntelligence%29

Just because Apple won't allow a Skype app on the iPhone doesn't mean it's Apple behind the decision. Wouldn't the good folks at 9 to 5 Mac at least have considered the possibility that it was AT&T that has forbidden the Skype app from appearing?

Except that AT&T has said they will allow it. They would look like pretty foolish and obvious liars if they were to then tell Apple it isn't allowed.


Most likely and most reasonably, is that Apple is delaying allowing it in order to implement a method for carrier to enable and disable the functionality....on individual accts and across the board. Just because AT&T allows VOIP now doesn't mean their other carrier partners will allow it. Basically the same reasoning behind not putting tethering in the OS until recently....some carrier would allow it and some would
not. All expect Apple to deliver a method
to control it.

So, while Apple may have nothing against apps using VOIP on 3g, they might still not allow it to apease their carriers...for now.

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post #4 of 76
What are you talking about, Skype has been on the iPhone for ages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Just because Apple won't allow a Skype app on the iPhone...
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post #5 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What are you talking about, Skype has been on the iPhone for ages.

The issue is allowing Skype to work over 3G, not just WiFi.
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post #6 of 76
Did you read what I was replying to?

"Just because Apple won't allow a Skype app on the iPhone..."

"...that it was AT&T that has forbidden the Skype app from appearing?"

The Skype App is allowed on the iPhone, it is not forbidden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The issue is allowing Skype to work over 3G, not just WiFi.
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post #7 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Did you read what I was replying to?

"Just because Apple won't allow a Skype app on the iPhone..."

"...that it was AT&T that has forbidden the Skype app from appearing?"

The Skype App is allowed on the iPhone, it is not forbidden.

You're right, Hudson1 seems to have misunderstood that, not you. Sorry.
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post #8 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You're right, Hudson1 seems to have misunderstood that, not you. Sorry.

Agreed. Skype is allowed but not over 3G. I am currently in Finland where the operators encourage mobile data usage to include VoIP. If I need to make a Skype or Fring call, I use my Nokia to place the call directly, or I turn on JoikuSpot on my Nokia and trick my iPhone into thinking that it is connected via wifi. Apple needs to fix this.
post #9 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You're right, Hudson1 seems to have misunderstood that, not you. Sorry.

Sorry, I should have said "Skype 3G" or something like that. Maybe I just assumed everyone knew we were only talking about 3G.


edit: Regardless, my point wasn't about 3G and WiFi but about lame journalism. 9 to 5 Mac threw out a conclusion without:

a) Telling us why they think it's right.
and
b) Offering other plausible explanations.
post #10 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Agreed. Skype is allowed but not over 3G. I am currently in Finland where the operators encourage mobile data usage to include VoIP. If I need to make a Skype or Fring call, I use my Nokia to place the call directly, or I turn on JoikuSpot on my Nokia and trick my iPhone into thinking that it is connected via wifi. Apple needs to fix this.

This is an example of why Apple has not yet allowed VOIP over 3G. My carrier in Canada expressly forbids VOIP over 3G. If Apple were to simply allow devs to release apps with this functionality, users that have not read their carrier ToS might then assume it was ok to run these apps over 3G and incur large fees and penalties. I disagree with carriers limiting how we use our data, but the fact is that they do. Apple has to be very careful in how the allow 3G VOIP.

Again, this is very similar to why the waited to allow tethering. Some carriers wanted it, some didn't and others wanted to be able to switch it on and off per user, in some cases for an extra fee. Until they had a method to allow this level of control, tethering was not available. The same considerations have to be had for 3G VOIP.

The major difference is that tethering is handled by the OS, so app developers aren't really responsible for updating their apps...it is Apple that provides the functionality. Whereas VOIP is completely implemented by the app developers. Apple can allow or deny the VOIP functionality through rules and policies, but unless the wanted to provide the only approved VOIP API for devs to use on the iPhone, I am not sure how they could conditionally restrict implementation of third party VOIP code; to allow the same level of control to the carriers that they provided for tethering.


My preferred solution would be to just flip the policy switch and allow all VOIP apps. AT&T has already said they will allow them and they are Apple's biggest carrier partner. They could perhaps require app developer to make enabling VOIP over 3G a setting that is off by default and must be turned on explicitly by the user with a clear and bold warning that if their carrier prohibits VOIP over 3G they will be liable for large fees and possible acct termination.

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...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #11 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

This is an example of why Apple has not yet allowed VOIP over 3G. My carrier in Canada expressly forbids VOIP over 3G. If Apple were to simply allow devs to release apps with this functionality, users that have not read their carrier ToS might then assume it was ok to run these apps over 3G and incur large fees and penalties. I disagree with carriers limiting how we use our data, but the fact is that they do. Apple has to be very careful in how the allow 3G VOIP.

Again, this is very similar to why the waited to allow tethering. Some carriers wanted it, some didn't and others wanted to be able to switch it on and off per user, in some cases for an extra fee. Until they had a method to allow this level of control, tethering was not available. The same considerations have to be had for 3G VOIP.

The major difference is that tethering is handled by the OS, so app developers aren't really responsible for updating their apps...it is Apple that provides the functionality. Whereas VOIP is completely implemented by the app developers. Apple can allow or deny the VOIP functionality through rules and policies, but unless the wanted to provide the only approved VOIP API for devs to use on the iPhone, I am not sure how they could conditionally restrict implementation of third party VOIP code; to allow the same level of control to the carriers that they provided for tethering.


My preferred solution would be to just flip the policy switch and allow all VOIP apps. AT&T has already said they will allow them and they are Apple's biggest carrier partner. They could perhaps require app developer to make enabling VOIP over 3G a setting that is off by default and must be turned on explicitly by the user with a clear and bold warning that if their carrier prohibits VOIP over 3G they will be liable for large fees and possible acct termination.

Could not agree with you more. Sonera says that they have no problems at all with tethering or with VoIP calls. Apple needs a way to address this issue for those of us that can use all the features that an operator offers.
post #12 of 76
Although it is technically possible to offer VoIP calling over 3G on devices such as the Android, the relatively low bandwidth of 3G compared to Wi-Fi means that those calls are very often of a poor quality.

Pat Phelan, founder of Cubic Telecom, is of the same opinion and he offers an explanation as to why VoIP over 3G is a bad idea at least for now:
  • Voice over 3G needs massive compression.
  • 3G speeds arent good enough for voice.
  • Latency, as measured by excessive ping times, makes it virtually impossible to have a decent conversation.


The iPhone & the Lack of Voice Over 3G: Alternative Theory
post #13 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Although it is technically possible to offer VoIP calling over 3G on devices such as the Android, the relatively low bandwidth of 3G compared to Wi-Fi means that those calls are very often of a poor quality.

Pat Phelan, founder of Cubic Telecom, is of the same opinion and he offers an explanation as to why VoIP over 3G is a bad idea at least for now:
  • Voice over 3G needs massive compression.
  • 3G speeds arent good enough for voice.
  • Latency, as measured by excessive ping times, makes it virtually impossible to have a decent conversation.


The iPhone & the Lack of Voice Over 3G: Alternative Theory

That all makes sense as an explanation as to why Apple (or AT&T) has not released a first party VOIP solution. Apple would not want to offer VOIP until it is useable in their opinion. But it doesn't, in anyway, explain why they would continue to block 3rd party VOIP apps.

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...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #14 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Although it is technically possible to offer VoIP calling over 3G on devices such as the Android, the relatively low bandwidth of 3G compared to Wi-Fi means that those calls are very often of a poor quality.

Pat Phelan, founder of Cubic Telecom, is of the same opinion and he offers an explanation as to why VoIP over 3G is a bad idea at least for now:
  • Voice over 3G needs massive compression.
  • 3G speeds arent good enough for voice.
  • Latency, as measured by excessive ping times, makes it virtually impossible to have a decent conversation.


The iPhone & the Lack of Voice Over 3G: Alternative Theory

I have to disagree about this as I use Skype via my iPhone (tethered to my MBP as my operators could not care less and encourages mobile data usage) and we even use VIDEO. Maybe the networks are better here in Finland but I have virtually no trouble at all with VoIP calls. Pat Phelan is wrong in my opinion. It appears the Finns planned their networks the right way.
post #15 of 76
I've used Skype on WiFi. The same rules apply, the voice quality can be effected by diminished signal strength and latency. There are a lot of variables that can effect the quality of the signal and bandwidth quality.

I don't see how Finnish engineering is so good that it can get around the laws of physics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

I have to disagree about this as I use Skype via my iPhone (tethered to my MBP as my operators could not care less and encourages mobile data usage) and we even use VIDEO. Maybe the networks are better here in Finland but I have virtually no trouble at all with VoIP calls. Pat Phelan is wrong in my opinion. It appears the Finns planned their networks the right way.
post #16 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I've used Skype on WiFi. The same rules apply, the voice quality can be effected by diminished signal strength and latency. There are a lot of variables that can effect the quality of the signal and bandwidth quality.

I don't see how Finnish engineering is so good that it can get around the laws of physics.

I am talking about practical, everyday use. Daily conversations. Do I get dropped packets sometimes? Of course. At no time did I say it was 100% flawless, but it is surely not as bad as Phelan has deemed it out to be. No where near. If US operators are not up to the task, and it appears so from the way he writes, then that's too bad. My Skype vid calls work almost all of the time. It is what it is.
post #17 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

http://www.iClarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=7187

If I read the article correctly...

A blogger is angry that an App hasn't been approved. He makes unsubstantiated claims (which may or may not be true) about business contracts between two parties other than himself. Those claims are sent to a Mac rumors website and then that website is cited by another website. Talk about the telephone game!

The only thing for sure is that none of us, including the blogger, likely has any clue as to what kind of deal Apple and AT&T may or may not have cut. This article (and the article it is based on) is not evidence one way or the other.

Apple is probably the most effective party to target and pressure in order to see the situation changed. But I've yet to see any indication that the title of this thread is anything more than conjecture.
post #18 of 76
I would like to hear the story from an average Finnish mobile phone user. I bet they would find that voip is not yet seamless and convenient enough to use on a regular basis.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

I am talking about practical, everyday use. Daily conversations. Do I get dropped packets sometimes? Of course. At no time did I say it was 100% flawless, but it is surely not as bad as Phelan has deemed it out to be. No where near. If US operators are not up to the task, and it appears so from the way he writes, then that's too bad. My Skype vid calls work almost all of the time. It is what it is.
post #19 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would like to hear the story from an average Finnish mobile phone user. I bet they would find that voip is not yet seamless and convenient enough to use on a regular basis.

Put an add in the news paper and see if an "average" Finnish user will bother to answer your questions.

Sorry the network you are on is poor while the one I use seems to work fine. You sit there and complain about your poor quality while I will continue on making my VoIP calls with Skype.

You could get a 100 or a 1000 or maybe even all 5.4 million of them to say that VoIP is okay but you would search and search until you got one to agree with you to "prove" your point. Here, I will make you happy. You are correct. VoIP is terrible. It should be banished from the english lexicon. Death to VoIP because TenoBell does not think it is adequate based on HIS standards.

I will tell my boss in DC that we have to use landlines from now on. Oh wait, the Finns removed all the landlines in our building and everyone is using mobile phones, and VoIP to communicate. Better go tell them to stop.

Please let me know when you deem VoIP adequate for us to use. I'll wait patiently for your approval.
post #20 of 76
I didn't say VOiP was terrible. My point is that at this point most people would not find it a good enough alternative to completely replace the mobile carriers voice calling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


You could get a 100 or a 1000 or maybe even all 5.4 million of them to say that VoIP is okay but you would search and search until you got one to agree with you to "prove" your point. Here, I will make you happy. You are correct. VoIP is terrible. It should be banished from the english lexicon. Death to VoIP because TenoBell does not think it is adequate based on HIS standards.

Please let me know when you deem VoIP adequate for us to use. I'll wait patiently for your approval.
post #21 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Put an add in the news paper and see if an "average" Finnish user will bother to answer your questions.

Sorry the network you are on is poor while the one I use seems to work fine. You sit there and complain about your poor quality while I will continue on making my VoIP calls with Skype.

You could get a 100 or a 1000 or maybe even all 5.4 million of them to say that VoIP is okay but you would search and search until you got one to agree with you to "prove" your point. Here, I will make you happy. You are correct. VoIP is terrible. It should be banished from the english lexicon. Death to VoIP because TenoBell does not think it is adequate based on HIS standards.

I will tell my boss in DC that we have to use landlines from now on. Oh wait, the Finns removed all the landlines in our building and everyone is using mobile phones, and VoIP to communicate. Better go tell them to stop.

Please let me know when you deem VoIP adequate for us to use. I'll wait patiently for your approval.

It really depends on how much do you talk in a month and how expensive is the real telecom solution.

VoIP providers like Vonage lost in the US because landline/cable voip is not that much more expensive. American cell phone users don't pay extra calling mobile-to-mobile nationwide and you can get unlimited voice fairly cheap.

It really shows that the Finnish government owning a big chunk of their incumbant landline/wireless carrier --- is ruining their market.

When the real thing is only marginally more expensive than the fake VoIP stuff, Americans are going to pay for the real stuff.
post #22 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

I have to disagree about this as I use Skype via my iPhone (tethered to my MBP as my operators could not care less and encourages mobile data usage) and we even use VIDEO. Maybe the networks are better here in Finland but I have virtually no trouble at all with VoIP calls. Pat Phelan is wrong in my opinion. It appears the Finns planned their networks the right way.

Finland is a country of 130,000 square mile and 5 million people. That's a million fewer people than Dallas in a country half the size of Texas.

I have no doubt that Finland's cell services are really great, but repeatedly using that as a point of comparison to what's happening in America makes no sense whatsoever.
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post #23 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Put an add in the news paper and see if an "average" Finnish user will bother to answer your questions.

Sorry the network you are on is poor while the one I use seems to work fine. You sit there and complain about your poor quality while I will continue on making my VoIP calls with Skype.

You could get a 100 or a 1000 or maybe even all 5.4 million of them to say that VoIP is okay but you would search and search until you got one to agree with you to "prove" your point. Here, I will make you happy. You are correct. VoIP is terrible. It should be banished from the english lexicon. Death to VoIP because TenoBell does not think it is adequate based on HIS standards.

I will tell my boss in DC that we have to use landlines from now on. Oh wait, the Finns removed all the landlines in our building and everyone is using mobile phones, and VoIP to communicate. Better go tell them to stop.

Please let me know when you deem VoIP adequate for us to use. I'll wait patiently for your approval.

That's a whole army of strawmen you've constructed!

Nobody was making claims about your personal experience. Instead, the comments were specifically about the spectrum of service typically experienced.
post #24 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Finland is a country of 130,000 square mile and 5 million people. That's a million fewer people than Dallas in a country half the size of Texas.

I have no doubt that Finland's cell services are really great, but repeatedly using that as a point of comparison to what's happening in America makes no sense whatsoever.

Also there is the fact the Finnish government (along with the Swedish government) owns the incumbant landline/wireless carrier and that they are trying to showcase Nokia as Finland's high tech industry.
post #25 of 76
Has Skype managed to get up and running on the N97 yet, it was one of the things Nokia was hyping up about it, in February last year?

Skype seems to be very slow at developing things.

In the meantime there's Fring, which enables you to receive Skype video calls on an iPhone, via wifi of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Put an add in the news paper and see if an "average" Finnish user will bother to answer your questions.

Sorry the network you are on is poor while the one I use seems to work fine. You sit there and complain about your poor quality while I will continue on making my VoIP calls with Skype.

You could get a 100 or a 1000 or maybe even all 5.4 million of them to say that VoIP is okay but you would search and search until you got one to agree with you to "prove" your point. Here, I will make you happy. You are correct. VoIP is terrible. It should be banished from the english lexicon. Death to VoIP because TenoBell does not think it is adequate based on HIS standards.

I will tell my boss in DC that we have to use landlines from now on. Oh wait, the Finns removed all the landlines in our building and everyone is using mobile phones, and VoIP to communicate. Better go tell them to stop.

Please let me know when you deem VoIP adequate for us to use. I'll wait patiently for your approval.
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post #26 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Finland is a country of 130,000 square mile and 5 million people. That's a million fewer people than Dallas in a country half the size of Texas.

I have no doubt that Finland's cell services are really great, but repeatedly using that as a point of comparison to what's happening in America makes no sense whatsoever.

So are you saying there is no proportionality to the design and construction of the network? If you are such an expert on Finland, you also know that most of the people live in the cities which is where the networks were first built out and expanded into the more rural areas. The key being, the Finns never put all of their telecommunications eggs into the landline basket. They invested heavily into phones and network infrastructure. The fact that I can carry out a Skype video call over 3G is a testament to proper planning. AT&T got tons of money for the iPhone and did the tap dance about network build out but they are in virtually the same position as last year with the same complaints. So, yeah, I think my comparisons are spot on. If you are happy paying for sucky service more power to you.
post #27 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

That's a whole army of strawmen you've constructed!

Nobody was making claims about your personal experience. Instead, the comments were specifically about the spectrum of service typically experienced.

I was addressing a specific part of TenoBell's post in reply to mine. Go back and read his again, then come back and annoy me.
post #28 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Has Skype managed to get up and running on the N97 yet, it was one of the things Nokia was hyping up about it, in February last year?

Skype seems to be very slow at developing things.

In the meantime there's Fring, which enables you to receive Skype video calls on an iPhone, via wifi of course.

"Rumors" have it that Skype has been ready for the N97 but Nokia has not implemented it. Nokia on the other hand says that Skype is the issue. If you can find out please post it. As for the N97, it was a dog on launch. My friends wife works there and internally everyone knew that it was launched too quickly. The firmware that went out the door was ACTUAL beta software. It was not a production version. Then Mac users had to wait 6 months for them to finally make an iSync Plugin for it. I had one for exactly 10 days, and took it back.

The N97 Mini is a bit better, while the N900 is okay. I use an iPhone as my daily phone with a Nokia of some sort (currently the N86) as backup and to run JoikuSpot when I need a quick wifi access point.
post #29 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I didn't say VOiP was terrible. My point is that at this point most people would not find it a good enough alternative to completely replace the mobile carriers voice calling.

TenoBell,

my point being that I can only speak from my daily usage of Skype. It is 08:16 in cold and frigid Espoo, and I am about to make another Skype Vid call to my friend in Cali. Works every time. Not once from this location has it failed. I did get dropouts and a bad connect in downtown Helsinki a few days ago. I just disconnected, and reconnected and it seemed to have fixed the problem. One thing I will add is that I have what they call: "TehoPlus" on my data service. It is sort of like a guarantee of bandwidth. All iPhone users that sign up get it. So normally I get anywhere from 2.9 mb/s to 3.2 mb/s. This seems to be plenty for Skype.
post #30 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

One thing I will add is that I have what they call: "TehoPlus" on my data service. It is sort of like a guarantee of bandwidth. All iPhone users that sign up get it. So normally I get anywhere from 2.9 mb/s to 3.2 mb/s. This seems to be plenty for Skype.

VoIP is all about latency, not topline speed. Only the most recent ev-do rev A and HSDPA have the latency required for VoIP, BUT doing VoIP-over-3G is still very inefficient (spectrum wise) --- that's why Verizon hasn't deployed VoIP-over-evdorA.

And Sonera doesn't guarantee bandwidth with teho plus. With regular service, they crippled your hsdpa speed down to 1 mbps. With teho plus, you get the actual 3.6 mbps hsdpa.

http://www.sonera.fi/Puhelin+ja+liit...n%20kysytty%E4

American carriers don't give you a HSDPA device and then cripples your speed so that you have to pay for faster service.
post #31 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

VoIP is all about latency, not topline speed. Only the most recent ev-do rev A and HSDPA have the latency required for VoIP, BUT doing VoIP-over-3G is still very inefficient (spectrum wise) --- that's why Verizon hasn't deployed VoIP-over-evdorA.

And Sonera doesn't guarantee bandwidth with teho plus. With regular service, they crippled your hsdpa speed down to 1 mbps. With teho plus, you get the actual 3.6 mbps hsdpa.

http://www.sonera.fi/Puhelin+ja+liit...n%20kysytty%E4

American carriers don't give you a HSDPA device and then cripples your speed so that you have to pay for faster service.

Just realized you are on my ignore list.

Anyway, with TehoPlus I am getting more bandwidth than someone without it. I know this for sure as I have tested it. I have an iPhone with TehoPlus and my Nokia N86 with just a regular data plan. There are big differences in the data connection speeds, so I think someone is making a mistake by giving me higher bandwidth speeds with TehoPlus. However, after using Google Translate (probably you as well unless you read Finnish) the first two paragraphs of your link say:

"General
What is the Data Power?
Data Power transmission is an additional service, which the user can improve the 3G data transfer the maximum speed. The service is based on the 3G network, HSPA (High Speed Packet Access) technology. Technology and devices, development of data transmission speeds of the 3G network will increase gradually in the coming years.

What kind of power is suitable for use Data?
Data Teholla maximum data transfer speed and increase the data transfer delay is reduced. This allows plenty of data transfer using the service and application availability is improving, and applications required real-time 3G network is better. Efficacy data can be used such as Internet browsing, e-mail, download attachments, large files, music, songs, or download software updates as well as video games and other entertainment applications. "


To further follow up, I called Sonera Corporate Customer service and they said that TehoPlus is sort of like a guarantee of better bandwidth service by providing access to full bandwidth. Not sure what to make of this considering you said it was not a guarantee of better service. Quandry. Who to believe? Sonera and my own eyes or someone that possibly used Google Translate which provides an adequate but not always accurate translation?

Anyway, it does not matter. I get 3.6, and pay only 9.90 (www.oanda.com) a month for unlimited data.
post #32 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Has Skype managed to get up and running on the N97 yet, it was one of the things Nokia was hyping up about it, in February last year?

Skype seems to be very slow at developing things.

You haven't actually done much software development have you? Your statement certainly seems to say as much. Sometimes implementation takes time. It isn't just a matter of saying 'abracadabra, presto magic, I now have my project done'.

Just look at the features that Apple left out until last year (CnP, Tethering, Voice Control, full stereo Blutetooth, System wide search). Just because it takes some time, doesn't make them 'slow at developing thing'.

Just because Nokia was hyping it does not mean it was of the same priority for Skype.

And of course, none of that has anything in the world to do with Apple still not approving apps that allow VOIP over 3G.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

In the meantime there's Fring, which enables you to receive Skype video calls on an iPhone, via wifi of course.

Which of course, is totally unrelated to the topic at hand (yes, I know it was mentioned in the post you were replying to).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #33 of 76
Is the "holdup" due to Apple or Skype?

I have shown that they are slow porting from Symbian S60v3 to Symbian S60v5.

Fring allows video calls via Skype using VOIP which works on the iPhone, while the Skype App itself does not.

As the "complaint" comes from a worker at Skype, could there be something wrong with the company?

It was a partnership between Skype and Nokia, they were both involved in the hype.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You haven't actually done much software development have you? Your statement certainly seems to say as much. Sometimes implementation takes time. It isn't just a matter of saying 'abracadabra, presto magic, I now have my project done'.

Just look at the features that Apple left out until last year (CnP, Tethering, Voice Control, full stereo Blutetooth, System wide search). Just because it takes some time, doesn't make them 'slow at developing thing'.

Just because Nokia was hyping it does not mean it was of the same priority for Skype.

And of course, none of that has anything in the world to do with Apple still not approving apps that allow VOIP over 3G.


Which of course, is totally unrelated to the topic at hand (yes, I know it was mentioned in the post you were replying to).
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #34 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Is the "holdup" due to Apple or Skype?

I have shown that they are slow porting from Symbian S60v3 to Symbian S60v5.

Fring allows video calls via Skype using VOIP which works on the iPhone, while the Skype App itself does not.

As the "complaint" comes from a worker at Skype, could there be something wrong with the company?

It was a partnership between Skype and Nokia, they were both involved in the hype.

If the hold up for Skype on 3G on the iPhone due to Apple or Skype? You are really asking that? Other than a few optimizations for 3G, all that would be required for Skype to work over 3G on the iPhone is for them to remove the check for 3G (or absence of wifi) in their code. That's it. Done. Resubmit as an update to Apple and it is good to go. Similarly, when Sling needed to get approval, they simply added a check for 3G to determine if they were allowed to run. Skype also simply checks if the iPhone is on 3G and if so it is used as a kill switch. if it runs over wifi, it will run on 3G...that's the beauty of being abstracted from the network...unless of course you are required to check for network type and disable conditionally. Undoing that intentional and artificial handicap is trivial.

Skype on another platform...that is a port. Porting to another platform, as you may not be aware, is sometimes fairly involved. Much more, often, than simply pulling out a single conditional line of code.

Quote:
Fring allows video calls via Skype using VOIP which works on the iPhone, while the Skype App itself does not.

Which again, has NOTHING to do with whether Skype will work over 3G on the iPhone. I am sure fring does other things that the Skype app does not. Really, what is the point of repeating this...? (really, almost as inane as repeatedly stating that Google is a discriminatory company because they are in beta and only in the US)

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #35 of 76
What does having to manage Google Voice using the web instead of a native iPhone App for people who live in the US, have to do with the situation with Skype touting vapourware almost a year ago and being too inept to update from one version of Symbian S60 to the next?

Incidentally Google Voice applications are only available to people who live in the US with Blackberry and Android phones.

Where is the outcry from Symbian, Winmo ond other OS users who also have to administer Google voice via the web?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

(really, almost as inane as repeatedly stating that Google is a discriminatory company because they are in beta and only in the US)
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #36 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What does having to manage Google Voice using the web instead of a native iPhone App for people who live in the US, have to do with the situation with Skype touting vapourware almost a year ago and being too inept to update from one version of Symbian S60 to the next?

Incidentally Google Voice applications are only available to people who live in the US with Blackberry and Android phones.

Where is the outcry from Symbian, Winmo ond other OS users who also have to administer Google voice via the web?

Well, for the most part, outside of the N97, Skype has not really been needed as many to most non-US operators are not afraid of VoIP. I use Fring on my Nokia in a 3G environment. Google Voice is just another app. Skype is only vaporware in regards to the N97. Continuing to cling to this one point makes the rest of your arguments lose their value. Skype never has to deliver an app for the N97 and there would still be VoIP over 3G for it.
post #37 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What does having to manage Google Voice using the web instead of a native iPhone App for people who live in the US, have to do with the situation with Skype touting vapourware almost a year ago and being too inept to update from one version of Symbian S60 to the next?

Nothing. That whistling you hear is the point missing you.

It is funny how some people call it vaporware when it isn't from Apple...but if Apple is late, it an necessary addition of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Incidentally Google Voice applications are only available to people who live in the US with Blackberry and Android phones.

Where is the outcry from Symbian, Winmo ond other OS users who also have to administer Google voice via the web?

Probably quietly waiting for google to release the app....they are likely targeting the growth platforms, like the iPhone. Of course if google were to release it and the MS or Nokia or another OS owner blocked it, you might hear an outcry...again, you point seems to have gone shooting right on by.

I really have yet to see any thing you have posted in this thread actually contribute to the thread. From nit-picking that someone left of '3G' when they mentioned Skype not being on the iPhone (when the thread title and the article he linked dealt only with that limitation), to taking a massive unrelated tangent to bash Skype and Nokia...

Somehow you think if you hate anything none Apple and trash talk anything non-Apple it lessens the short comings. Face some facts: AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G. Skype has VOIP app on the iPhone that has a kill switch when on 3G. Apple alone holds the key to allowing VOIP on 3G. Cry all you want about Nokia and RIM and whom ever else you want to uselessly bring up, but it doesn't change the basic facts.

Amusingly enough, if Apple clearly said they would allow VOIP on 3G if only AT&T allowed it and AT&T publicly said no, I have no doubt you wouldn't being trying to derail the discussion...if it isn't criticizing Apple, it is Okeedokey.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #38 of 76
Sorry Skype is the most wonderful company on earth, they can do no wrong as with Nokia, I was wrong to criticise these noble companies of such high ideals of human perfection.

May Thor and a thousand Norse gods strike me dead where I stand for my transgressions and blasphemous ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Nothing. That whistling you hear is the point missing you.

It is funny how some people call it vaporware when it isn't from Apple...but if Apple is late, it an necessary addition of time.


Probably quietly waiting for google to release the app....they are likely targeting the growth platforms, like the iPhone. Of course if google were to release it and the MS or Nokia or another OS owner blocked it, you might hear an outcry...again, you point seems to have gone shooting right on by.

I really have yet to see any thing you have posted in this thread actually contribute to the thread. From nit-picking that someone left of '3G' when they mentioned Skype not being on the iPhone (when the thread title and the article he linked dealt only with that limitation), to taking a massive unrelated tangent to bash Skype and Nokia...

Somehow you think if you hate anything none Apple and trash talk anything non-Apple it lessens the short comings. Face some facts: AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G. Skype has VOIP app on the iPhone that has a kill switch when on 3G. Apple alone holds the key to allowing VOIP on 3G. Cry all you want about Nokia and RIM and whom ever else you want to uselessly bring up, but it doesn't change the basic facts.

Amusingly enough, if Apple clearly said they would allow VOIP on 3G if only AT&T allowed it and AT&T publicly said no, I have no doubt you wouldn't being trying to derail the discussion...if it isn't criticizing Apple, it is Okeedokey.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #39 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Well, for the most part, outside of the N97, Skype has not really been needed as many to most non-US operators are not afraid of VoIP. I use Fring on my Nokia in a 3G environment. Google Voice is just another app. Skype is only vaporware in regards to the N97. Continuing to cling to this one point makes the rest of your arguments lose their value. Skype never has to deliver an app for the N97 and there would still be VoIP over 3G for it.

Ironic that he basically never has an actual point to make. Aside from trying to belittle or tangentially criticize anything that seems be 'against' Apple or trying to project/deflect criticisms of Apple in the most pointless directions, there is usually very little of value or substance. As far as this thread goes, the fact the Skype is 'late', while subjective and stated from a position ignorant of the facts, is his only argument. Difficult for something with no value to lose value....try as he might.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #40 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Anyway, with TehoPlus I am getting more bandwidth than someone without it. I know this for sure as I have tested it. I have an iPhone with TehoPlus and my Nokia N86 with just a regular data plan. There are big differences in the data connection speeds, so I think someone is making a mistake by giving me higher bandwidth speeds with TehoPlus. However, after using Google Translate (probably you as well unless you read Finnish) the first two paragraphs of your link say:

To further follow up, I called Sonera Corporate Customer service and they said that TehoPlus is sort of like a guarantee of better bandwidth service by providing access to full bandwidth. Not sure what to make of this considering you said it was not a guarantee of better service. Quandry. Who to believe? Sonera and my own eyes or someone that possibly used Google Translate which provides an adequate but not always accurate translation?

Anyway, it does not matter. I get 3.6, and pay only €9.90 (www.oanda.com) a month for unlimited data.

"Sort of like" from a customer service staff means nothing.

Go and take a look at AT&T's website and it will tell you that a 3.6 mbps HSDPA has a max download speed of 3.6 mbps and AT&T tells you that you will have an average download speed of 700-1700 kbps. Notice that the Finnish translation talks about MAX theoretical speed with the premium teho plus service that you can never achieve in real life. And without the teho plus service, the Finnish website specifically tells you that your HSDPA phone will be crippled to 1 mbps max theoretical download speed. American carriers are more honest about it (because of class action lawsuits) that both AT&T and VZW will give you the average real life download speed of their 3G network.

It does matter --- because all you talk about is how cheap your Finnish service is and how fast it is. How cheap? You have to get the iphone data service from an MVNO in Finland. Which means that all your talk about how much more expensive Americans paid is garbage because you are comparing brand name carrier service in USA vs. MVNO service in Finland. How fast? It is the same network as AT&T's 3.6 mbps service --- only that American carriers don't cripple their speed on the basic subscribers in order to force them to pay for the higher priced uncrippled speed.
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