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post #41 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Settings >Safari> Search Provider.

already there, always has been.

If Bing is set as the default but Google is till an option the people that prefer Google can change at will. Most users will stick to what is set as default as long as the experience is good. If Bing turns out not to offer a great experience then the switching procedure will be something the entire world and their best friends will know about in no time at all. From a user perspective I am not really worried. I use Google Ad-words, however, and get a lot of business that way. I tried MS for a while but I don't think I ever got a single hit through their service.
post #42 of 128
When Apple picked Google as the default search provider and Yahoo as the backup they signed those contacts with an installed base of zero, so Apple wasn't in a very good negotiating position.

Now Apple has an installed base of tens of millions of iPhone and iPod touch devices. So… what is it worth now?

I guess that it what Apple is finding out. Nothing more, nothing less. And they won't get a figure by speaking with Google alone.

As for animosity — Microsoft and Apple are frienemies, they have been for years.
post #43 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As for AT&T, the exclusive carrier of the iPhone in the U.S., analyst Tim Horan said the discussion serves to highlight the loss of control the wireless provider has over its customer base, thanks to Apple and the iPhone. AT&T is on the losing end because it does not receive any of the revenue associated with software on the App Store, yet is the use of many of those applications that has resulted in poor network quality.

"We believe this will intensify the service providers' promotion of alternative handset suppliers and their own applications market," Horan wrote. "We would expect the service providers to work more intensively with Google, Nokia, RIM etc. to create devices that are comparable to the iPhone, but this will take some time."

The supposition there is that by working with Google, AT&T will somehow get a percentage of the revenue from the Android Marketplace?

I doubt it.

The whole "telcos should just be dumb pipes" debate is really going to hit the fan as these kind of issues (app revenues & apps using bandwidth) grow exponentially with the adoption of app-phones by more and more of the masses.
post #44 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Agreed. I had to laugh when I saw that.

Using the Google App you:
Exit out of safari
Find the Google app and open it
Type in your query and then wait for safari to open your result on a new tab

Besides the irritation of having to close safari to search with the Google app, you then end up with umpteen tabs open. It's just a hassle when I just need to look up some trivial fact or location.

You're assuming that the user is already in Safari. If you are not in safari, typically you would open it and next have to find a safari page that you don't mind doing a search on so you don't lose the current page.
post #45 of 128
I use Google religiously, but lately I have been finding it to not give me the relevance I was accustomed to. I am also finding the ads more intrusive in days past, but that might be from using a computer with different ad-block settings.

Apple can't build a viable search engine of their own, but it makes business sense to weaken Google mindshare with options.
post #46 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

A dedicated app is always going to be better. Voice search is one of the obvious advantages. It's also just plain faster to hit the Google button than it is to launch Safari, and then find the tiny search field with your finger.

Assuming you put the dedicated app in the dock. Safari's in my dock already (along with phone, mail, and SMS). Those four apps are more important to me in the dock than a dedicated search app for Google. Easier for me to just hit Safari and touch the very easy to find search box in the top right of the screen than it would be to try to find which of my pages the dedicated app is on.

To each his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Personally, I don't know any one who searches from that impossibly small, useless field in the mobile Safari bar and I'd think it a bonus to the UI if it was removed.

Safari's search bar works just fine for me and everyone I know.

Pretty clear from your multiple posts that you don't like Safari and prefer Google app instead. It's just one of those personal preferences things; you can't make blanket statements like yours that apply to the other 30 million iPhone users around the world. Thankfully, we have choices about what method to use!
post #47 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Settings >Safari> Search Provider.

already there, always has been.

Since Safari on the Mac does not make it anywhere close to easy to change search engines I assummed that it would be the same on the iPhone. Thanks for this, I changed from Google to Yahoo in 5 seconds.
post #48 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

I seriously don't want "BING" anywhere near my iphone, to be honest it's not even enough to be able to set another search as default like it is now, I just don't want it on my iphone.

Amen! Come on Apple, don't do this to us.
post #49 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

Since Safari on the Mac does not make it anywhere close to easy to change search engines I assummed that it would be the same on the iPhone. Thanks for this, I changed from Google to Yahoo in 5 seconds.


do you now feel dirty since Bing powers Yahoo search?
post #50 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedLoop View Post

The supposition there is that by working with Google, AT&T will somehow get a percentage of the revenue from the Android Marketplace?

I doubt it.

The whole "telcos should just be dumb pipes" debate is really going to hit the fan as these kind of issues (app revenues & apps using bandwidth) grow exponentially with the adoption of app-phones by more and more of the masses.

Google shares add revenue with Android handset makers and the carriers. they are buying their customers just like Microsoft is with Bing.

Something like 50% of Google's add revenue is paid out to "partners"
post #51 of 128
Where've AltaVista (was my favorite one), and Lycos, and WebCrawler, and AskJeeves gone? Steve's hair was darker. So was mine...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #52 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

If Verizon signed a contract with Microsoft, does that mean if they are to bring the iPhone to their network, it would be obligated to use Bing? Perhaps this is the reason for this discussion? Google could remain the default on AT&T and everywhere else in the world.

On the other hand, I don't think Version WebOS or Android devices are forced to use Bing, right? (disclaimer: i'm Canadian, so I have no clue)

To me, this explanation makes more sense than that given by the analysts. Verizon may be obliged to make Bing the default search engine on new handsets going forward by their deal with Microsoft. Having Apple make Bing the default could be a prerequisite for a Verizon iPhone. As long as the default may be changed by the user, this should not be cause for alarm.
post #53 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

I use Google religiously, but lately I have been finding it to not give me the relevance I was accustomed to. I am also finding the ads more intrusive in days past, but that might be from using a computer with different ad-block settings.

Apple can't build a viable search engine of their own, but it makes business sense to weaken Google mindshare with options.

I know what you mean, I was completely dedicated to Google, but I've noticed with some searches it seems to put all sorts of stuff on the screen, especially if I search for a band or something, whereas it used to just be a list of search results with a couple of ads. I preferred that.

I've used Bing a few times and actually quite like it.

It has to be said, the fact that this is even a rumour shows how much things must have soured between Apple and Google.
post #54 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Where've AltaVista (was my favorite one), and Lycos, and WebCrawler, and AskJeeves gone? Steve's hair was darker. So was mine...

I used to love AltaVista - that was the best pre-Google search engine in my opinion.
post #55 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

Google shares add revenue with Android handset makers and the carriers. they are buying their customers just like Microsoft is with Bing.

Something like 50% of Google's add revenue is paid out to "partners"


That's ad(vertising) revenue, not app(lications) revenue.

Does Google share revenue from the selling of apps in the Android Marketplace to end-users with it's carrier "partners"?
post #56 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

I use Google religiously, but lately I have been finding it to not give me the relevance I was accustomed to.

True. I believe the number of sites is no more in the range where their algorithm bests.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #57 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I used to love AltaVista - that was the best pre-Google search engine in my opinion.

Well, Google is actually on its decline, too. Nothing lasts for ever.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #58 of 128
The separate Google app does have its benefits, but if I'm already in Safari, I probably won't leave it to go run the app. I also don't tend to use programs that ask if I want it to know where I am, it's irritating and I don't want that. If I want location based searching, it's actually done well enough for me in Maps, where there is a legit need to know where I am.
post #59 of 128
Here's the trouble with using Bing - it's really just a way for Microsoft to push Silverlight. It may work fine now for platform-neutral searches and mapping, but once it crosses a certain marketshare threshold Microsoft will once again marginalize all non-Windows platforms by enhancing the results for those who use Silverlight, while degrading those who don't:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...as-default.ars

Given that the iPhone disallows third-party runtime environments (at least for now), Silverlight is a non-starter (as it should be, imo). So Apple embracing Bing and the baggage it brings would be in direct contrast to their current stance of controlling the whole widget with the iPhone. I just don't see that happening.
post #60 of 128
I say ... bring the Bing.

I've tried using it for some of my image searches that I use in my work ... I actually like it better for that than Google. I would prefer less clutter in the home screen though.

In addition, Eric Schmidt would appear to be a slimy weasel so why continue to shovel them all the support?
post #61 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblenio View Post

I don't want a new map application! I like google's mapping software. I don't want to be forced into changing!

I suspect Apple have their own Mapping system on the way so there may be better options coming,
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #62 of 128
While I don't use the Google app much I do like Google search results in Safari (Mac & iPhone). If Apple decides to use Bing as the default search engine on iPhone Safari I'm fine as long as Google isn't removed as a choice under Settings. If they decide to remove the Google option I'll be more than miffed.
"'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are." -George Hanson
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"'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are." -George Hanson
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post #63 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

This guy Reiner is clueless. I say good for apple, and the world if someone can put and end to google's dominance, their dictatorship over who appears and who doesn't on the web. If it has to be bing (what a name....tststst...) so be it, although I would go with yahoo, and altavista specifically.

True, the guy IS clueless. Doesn't he know that Mac users run WIndows software on their machines, or that their machines can run the WIndows OS?
post #64 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedLoop View Post

Assuming you put the dedicated app in the dock. Safari's in my dock already (along with phone, mail, and SMS). Those four apps are more important to me in the dock than a dedicated search app for Google. Easier for me to just hit Safari and touch the very easy to find search box in the top right of the screen than it would be to try to find which of my pages the dedicated app is on.

To each his own.

Safari's search bar works just fine for me and everyone I know.

Pretty clear from your multiple posts that you don't like Safari and prefer Google app instead. It's just one of those personal preferences things; you can't make blanket statements like yours that apply to the other 30 million iPhone users around the world. Thankfully, we have choices about what method to use!

Fair enough criticism on the "to each his (or her)own" part to a degree, but seriously ... If you are using mobile Safari on the iPhone for things like this you are kinda "doing it wrong."

The point of the iPhone is that it's always connected to this thing called the Internet and that it runs these things called apps that are fast, small, and do one thing (and usually one thing only) really well.

In general, and personal preferences aside etc., opening mobile Safari to "connect to the Internet and do X" is totally old-school and backwards.

If you want to look at Facebook, press "the Facebook button" (Facebook app) instead.
If you want to search for something, press "the search button" (google app)
If you want to tweet, press the Twitter button etc. etc. ...

This is the revolutionary thing about the iPhone and the reason why a lot of "regular" non-computer folks like your Mum have found them easy to use.
This is a major reason why smartphone adoption is up.
This is the way your kids will use the Internet.

Sure open Safari if you want, but I'd argue that this is the way of the future or whatever.

You don't *have* to have Safari in the dock either. My dock has all my communication apps that I use all the time, and my "search button" (Google app) is on my main page, cause I do that all the time.
post #65 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The point of the iPhone is that it's always connected to this thing called the Internet and that it runs these things called apps that are fast, small, and do one thing (and usually one thing only) really well.

This is in no way the "point" of the iPhone, and in every way a limitation of its introductory hardware.

Talk about a lack of vision.
post #66 of 128
Will the next article be 'Apple considering running Windows 7 on new tablet?'

Clearly somekind of planted PR bomb
post #67 of 128
Quote:
AT&T is on the losing end because it does not receive any of the revenue associated with software on the App Store, yet is the use of many of those applications that has resulted in poor network quality.

hhmmm... I'll take $30 a month from every user.
post #68 of 128
Unless it's a real threat they probably won't do anything. Look at WinMo. It's there. Apple doesn't care because nobody likes it and hardly competes with iPhone. Android is a great mobile platform and it's growing quickly.

Either way, I don't really see Apple doing this. I do understand that Apple already sells Office and Intel Macs can run Windows, but Google is just so popular and good. I don't see Apple switching that. But then again, I'm sure they'll allow you to switch back...

Like someone else said, this might be a rumor that arose from the iPhone possibly coming to Verizon and Verizon using Bing... Who knows.
post #69 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dphayes77 View Post

Search is search, as long as the end user gets decent results and can get to what it is they are looking for, I don't see the bi(n)g deal. Chill out---besides the Bing! app itself is nice and there is a Google app if their is that much concern. Common sense should prevail here.

You are way off base.

There may be BIG differences in search companies: how much information they gather on you, how they use that information, how many ads they throw in your face, whether the search results are accurate (or whether companies can buy rankings), whether companies that advertise more will see higher placement in the rankings, whether the search company owns products that it infiltrates into search results, whether the search company keeps its competitors pages low in the rankings, etc.

Google has pretty bad privacy policies (my opinion), but I wouldn't trust Microsoft in ANY of these areas.

Of course the biggest difference is how useful are the results you get, and how many times you have to click before you find what you're looking for. Bing is deficient here, in my experience.
post #70 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedLoop View Post

That's ad(vertising) revenue, not app(lications) revenue.

Does Google share revenue from the selling of apps in the Android Marketplace to end-users with it's carrier "partners"?

i don't think anyone cares since the amount is so small. the way android works is the OS is free, the google apps are $15 per device I think and Google shares advertising revenue. They probably know how much because they probably track everything by device
post #71 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dphayes77 View Post

Search is search, as long as the end user gets decent results and can get to what it is they are looking for, I don't see the bi(n)g deal. Chill out---besides the Bing! app itself is nice and there is a Google app if their is that much concern. Common sense should prevail here.

Yes. Whatever Apple decides for us will be the best choice. They will choose a search engine for us based on the user experience that is best for us - not based on what makes them the most money.
post #72 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

This guy Reiner is clueless. I say good for apple, and the world if someone can put and end to google's dominance, their dictatorship over who appears and who doesn't on the web. If it has to be bing (what a name....tststst...) so be it, although I would go with yahoo, and altavista specifically.

Steve will choose for us, and we will see that it is good.
post #73 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

This is in no way the "point" of the iPhone, and in every way a limitation of its introductory hardware.

Talk about a lack of vision.

It is completely the point of the iPhone in the context of the discussion at hand and given the state of the hardware today.

Outside of games and a few utilities and productivity apps, most iPhone applications use the Internet and the "always connected" feature of the iPhone to do what they do. I just counted my apps and aproximately 87% of them are such apps.

You don't need a weather app, or a TV guide app or in fact most of the apps most people have because all of them draw information from the Internet or are targetted, widgetised versions of web services and web pages that already exist and can be looked up in Safari.

They exist because they are easier to use, faster, better designed experiences and clearer to the end user than going through Safari.
post #74 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblenio View Post

I don't want a new map application! I like google's mapping software. I don't want to be forced into changing!

Yeah, but Apple doesn't give customers what they want, it gives customers what is best for them.

You'll see - the new mapping application will be ssssssoooooooooo great!
post #75 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's a rumour, people.

Besides, the last company I'd expect to make any kind of boneheaded move is Apple.

Precisely. When they decide which new search engine we will use, it will be the best decision that they could possibly have made. Its all about user experience with them.
post #76 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Everyone I know uses that field perfectly well, as I would guess 95% of iPhone users do.

Sorry, but Gazoobie has hard data here. I wouldn't assume that he just makes things up and states them like they are statistics.
post #77 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

What's the real threat from Google?

Apple has been wildly successful delivering premium products and Google's whole existence is predicated on free services that push search ads.

Who cares if Google has Android? It seems to be racing against itself to fall into the Windows Mobile trap - with dozens of slightly different OS versions and hardware configurations in the wild, snapping up niches to be sure, but not offering a compelling 'switch' case to Apple's core market.

That's not what it looks to me. They are all iPhone competitors. Whether they are as good, who knows, but they are all attempts at competing with iPhones. You don't mistake the failure of the product from the intention or even indirect intention of the product.

Before the iPhone was released, Google was turning Android into a Treo/Blackberry/PPC type platform. After the iPhone, basically every Android phone release has been an iPhone clone, down to app store strategies and various UI conventions. They have had a direct hand with exact and direct competition to Apple's iPhone: Nexus One, Droid, mytouch 3G, Hero, G1. Same type of price points, same type of high end profits kind of hardware. Same type of platform experience (Android market app store, user experience). Not as classy and well integrated as Apple's but they have been continuing to rev the platform and are getting closer to Apple every day.

Google's Android intentions appear to be creating the dominant mobile device platform spanning all devices from cell phones, PDAs, PMPs, and "smartbooks". Those are all direct shots at Apple's bottom line: sales of iPhones, iTunes economy, iPod touch (eventually someone will).

Everyone participating in the "Open Handset Alliance" intends to make as much money as possible, and part of that is knocking Apple off its rails. Google didn't have to do Android. They could have just made deals with all of the mobile platforms to provide search and cloud services. Instead, they want to own it all with Android.

Every Nexus One sale is potentially a loss in an iPhone sale. Every Droid sale is pontentially a loss in an iPhone sale. Every ChromeOS device is potentially a loss in an Apple "Tablet/Slate" device sale.

Those are all knives in the back, opening shots in a war to me. Apple better be taking Google seriously as an enemy as they are promoting a business that makes Apple irrelevant. So, I would welcome Bing sourced map data, Bing sourced "video sharing" application, Bing sourced searching, etc.
post #78 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by igenius View Post

sorry, but gazoobie has hard data here. I wouldn't assume that he just makes things up and states them like they are statistics.

post #79 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

... If you are using mobile Safari on the iPhone for things like this you are kinda "doing it wrong."
...
You don't *have* to have Safari in the dock either. My dock has all my communication apps that I use all the time, and my "search button" (Google app) is on my main page, cause I do that all the time.

I specifically said that those applications in my dock were the ones I found myself going to the most, and therefore the most useful to me, and so yes, they have to be in *my* dock. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

i don't think anyone cares since the amount is so small. the way android works is the OS is free, the google apps are $15 per device I think and Google shares advertising revenue. They probably know how much because they probably track everything by device

But that is not the argument. I criticized the assertion that AT&T will do deals with other manufacturers of hardware because iPhone apps use a lot of bandwidth and AT&T doesn't get any of the app store revenue. This assertion implies that Google would give some revenue to AT&T from app sales. Nothing you've said addressed that one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

You don't need a weather app, or a TV guide app or in fact most of the apps most people have because all of them draw information from the Internet or are targetted, widgetised versions of web services and web pages that already exist and can be looked up in Safari.

They exist because they are easier to use, faster, better designed experiences and clearer to the end user than going through Safari.

That's your use model, not everyone else's. With the same logic, we should just dump Safari on our Macs and load up with a bunch of specific purpose applications. No thanks. Same with my iPhone.
post #80 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabsgwu View Post

What would make more sense is making Bing the default search, but offering an easy option to set whatever search you would like in the settings


You think that would be easy? Apple cannot figure out how to do that yet - it sounds even more hard than cut and paste.

But when Apple finally figures out how to do it, well, we'll all be falling all over ourselves with delight at how well it is done! I can't wait!
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