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post #81 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

A dedicated app is always going to be better. Voice search is one of the obvious advantages. It's also just plain faster to hit the Google button than it is to launch Safari, and then find the tiny search field with your finger.

I disagree. The Safari interface is practically perfect. The search box is done amazingly well.
post #82 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalxEdward View Post

I'd rather have their new turn by turn nav app on the iphone.

I would to without paying the high price the GPS maps are charging. Those Maps need some competition.

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post #83 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedLoop View Post

It's just one of those personal preferences things; you can't make blanket statements like yours that apply to the other 30 million iPhone users around the world.

Everybody always agrees with Gazooby.
post #84 of 128
Today I reviewed some notes taken at an iPhone dev-event some time ago.

Beside some advertising and hype there is a golden thread: user experience design:

- When You do this than please take care of the memory, here some best practice.
- Please take care of the Human Interface Guidelines. A button is not just a button.
- Before You start XCode please spend a lot of time in the concept of the UI. Here some examples and tips how to increase the user experience*

When I recall my impressions from MW 2007 or when I first touched Google Earth on the iPhone I'm still blown away from the results of the Apple - Google teamwork.

Sometimes ago Google decided to concentrate on Google experience - a legit direction. I think war and fight are too strong words and it's not a fact that Apple fears competition. (they are used to it for decades)

I feel it's more dissatisfaction about the progress in some areas they hoped Google would innovate and push their platform (experience).

Looking for alternatives is also a legit direction.

* Here a link to an article that describes my impressions better than my words:
http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/pu...ate_like_apple
post #85 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The separate Google app does have its benefits, but if I'm already in Safari, I probably won't leave it to go run the app.


It is seamless to switch apps on the iPhone - it is pretty much just like multitasking. So why not just leave Safari running in the background and use the Google window?
post #86 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gas_pig70 View Post

If they decide to remove the Google option I'll be more than miffed.

Don't worry. If they remove it you'll soon realize that it was the best thing to do, and you will thank then for it. It happens to all of us sooner or later.
post #87 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

True, the guy IS clueless. Doesn't he know that Mac users run WIndows software on their machines, or that their machines can run the WIndows OS?

Macs run Windows better than Windows machines can run it
post #88 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Macs run Windows better than Windows machines can run it

do you have proof of that?
post #89 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Personally, I don't know any one who searches from that impossibly small, useless field in the mobile Safari bar and I'd think it a bonus to the UI if it was removed.

Interesting, I don't know anyone who doesn't use the awesomely convenient small & efficient field in the mobile Safari bar. In fact, the last 4 people I know who bought iPhones would probably consider that little search field the MOST IMPORTANT part of their iPhone, as they use the device primarily for internet searches through google, second for phone... and usually the first thing people ask me when they get a Touch or iPhone is "how do i search google?".
(for the record... second is "Why can't i connect to wifi?" and third is "does Maps GPS thingy eat up my bandwidth?")

The built in search field and the snap back is the best thing to happen to a browser. This possible move to Bing is a huge deal as Google's success and growth can be directly attributed to the little search field being built into browsers in FF and Safari. It was genius marketing on Google's part.

This is a big deal. Not the second coming of Steve Jobs big deal, or Steve Jobs coming down from Mt. Sinai with the Tablet... but still a big deal.
post #90 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Interesting, I don't know anyone who doesn't use the awesomely convenient small & efficient field in the mobile Safari bar. In fact, the last 4 people I know who bought iPhones would probably consider that little search field the MOST IMPORTANT part of their iPhone,

It's right up there, no foolin.
post #91 of 128
I as a Mac user really hates Flash! One thing I can say that Silver light is a much better plug-in on OS X than Flash.

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post #92 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep View Post

do you have proof of that?

Everybody knows it is true.
post #93 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Everybody knows it is true.

no they dont.

just because its apple doesnt automatically make it better.
post #94 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep View Post

no they dont.

just because its apple doesnt automatically make it better.

People have shown side by side start up times of identically specced hardware with the mac winning easily, but that is not the greatest way to test anything. There have also been benchmark tests done showing Apple hardware running Windows to slightly outperform similar hardware form other pc vendors. While I don't know how true the statement is, there has been evidence of it.

One thing I do know is true, is superior attention to detail. I've taken apart an Apple laptop and an HP, and they don't compare at all. The HP had components on top of components, with plastic tape separating them, wires running through part of the bottom case then under the motherboard before eventually finding the top of the motherboard. It was a complete mess. My MBP on the other hand, had a great layout, the hard drive even had a rubber antishock mounting system, every component was visible and accessible, and plastic wasn't required to protect electronic components from other ones. It's not surprising at all that macs seem to work better with windows than a traditional windows computer.
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post #95 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

People have shown side by side start up times of identically specced hardware with the mac winning easily, but that is not the greatest way to test anything. There have also been benchmark tests done showing Apple hardware running Windows to slightly outperform similar hardware form other pc vendors. While I don't know how true the statement is, there has been evidence of it.

One thing I do know is true, is superior attention to detail. I've taken apart an Apple laptop and an HP, and they don't compare at all. The HP had components on top of components, with plastic tape separating them, wires running through part of the bottom case then under the motherboard before eventually finding the top of the motherboard. It was a complete mess. My MBP on the other hand, had a great layout, the hard drive even had a rubber antishock mounting system, every component was visible and accessible, and plastic wasn't required to protect electronic components from other ones. It's not surprising at all that macs seem to work better with windows than a traditional windows computer.

i would actually like to see those tests and see if the specs they used were exactly the same. in theory, the same exact same specs should show the exact same numbers.

the layout i wont argue with. apple does a much better job at assembly and placement of the hardware. HP is horrid, and i will never buy from them. ever.
post #96 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by satcomer View Post

I as a Mac user really hates Flash! One thing I can say that Silver light is a much better plug-in on OS X than Flash.

Amen.
post #97 of 128
Saying that Apple shouldn't have a strategic partnership with Microsoft because it undercuts their tv ads is like saying in the midst of the Cold War that the USSR and China shouldn't cooperate on diplomatic matters because they're competing against each other in the Olympics.
post #98 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep View Post

i would actually like to see those tests and see if the specs they used were exactly the same. in theory, the same exact same specs should show the exact same numbers.

the layout i wont argue with. apple does a much better job at assembly and placement of the hardware. HP is horrid, and i will never buy from them. ever.

The stuff I'm thinking of is over a year old, but specs will never be the same. The listed specs maybe (and they were the same in those tests), but not everything contributing to performance is listed. As an example, when was the last time a laptop manufacturer told you what motherboard they were using? Or the exact hard drive being used? (not all 7200rpm drives are created equal)

In my experience, PC manufacturers tend to pack things in to fill a feature list, that is what sells PCs. With Apple, each piece is considered to be part of a whole, not just a feature/spec to put on a list. I prefer mac hardware over any other brand I've had experience with, even if the "specs" are the same.
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post #99 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Apple treated us to Google for all these years, until Google came out with a competing mobile phone OS and hardware...

Now Apple is in talks with Bing...

What will Apple do when Microsoft announces their version of a competing phone OS and hardware like they did with Zune, regardless of how much of a failure that was or not?

They will probably start talks with another web browser.
post #100 of 128
Apple's war with Google isn't. they don't hate Google. it's still a friendly compet. as is this war with Microsoft. And all sides get that.

My issue with Bing is that it's not very mature as a search tool. I can't see Apple putting it at the forefront and lessening the user experience.
I can see perhaps making Bing one of the options but not making it the default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

The analysis is nonsense; clearly a Google-inspired plant to counteract the obviously Apple-planted rumour.

but what does Google have to win with this rumor. or for that matter Apple.

Microsoft on the other hand. Bing being associated with Apple could be seen as improving the decision' engine's street cred. so if anyone is leaking a fake rumor, my vote is Microsoft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie View Post

The iPhone's Maps applications is made by Apple. Google merely delivers the content. T

point to note, Apple bought out a map service (I think called PlaceBase) last year.
post #101 of 128
Worthless analysts. Its Bing, it's not Windows Bing. Consumers are smart enough to know that Mac is being touted over Windows not Bing. These analysts are mentally lazy wankers.
post #102 of 128
"AT&T is on the losing end because it does not receive any of the revenue associated with software on the App Store, yet is the use of many of those applications that has resulted in poor network quality."

That's a load of horseshit.

The biggest selling iPhone apps are games, and I doubt they generate that much network traffic. The bulk of iPhone traffic is likely coming from Mobile Safari, whose brilliant UI made mobile web browsing usable for the first time in history. Yeah, you make something easy to use and more people will use it - go figure!

AT&T's poor network quality is the result of AT&T failing to upgrade their network early enough and quickly enough to handle the increased demand. The fact that other wireless carriers across the globe have had no such problems supporting the iPhone underscores the fact that AT&T have only themselves to blame. And let's not even get into their delay in offering MMS and tethering (still missing in action.)

AT&T's chances of getting a slice of Apple's App Store revenue are about as good as the music industry's chances of getting a slice of iPod sales revenue. The only reason AT&T could be said to be on the losing end of this deal is because of their own shortsightedness and negligence.


.
post #103 of 128
Bing has nothing to do with Windows. End of story.
post #104 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post

Bing has nothing to do with Windows.

Instead, it has everything to do with Silverlight.

Quote:
End of story.

The end of yours, anyway.
post #105 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Yes. Whatever Apple decides for us will be the best choice. They will choose a search engine for us based on the user experience that is best for us - not based on what makes them the most money.

Quote:
Steve will choose for us, and we will see that it is good.

Quote:
Yeah, but Apple doesn't give customers what they want, it gives customers what is best for them.

Quote:
You'll see - the new mapping application will be ssssssoooooooooo great!

Quote:
Precisely. When they decide which new search engine we will use, it will be the best decision that they could possibly have made.

Quote:
But when Apple finally figures out how to do it, well, we'll all be falling all over ourselves with delight at how well it is done! I can't wait!

Quote:
The Safari interface is practically perfect. The search box is done amazingly well.

Quote:
Don't worry. If they remove it you'll soon realize that it was the best thing to do, and you will thank then for it.

(ad nauseam)

What are you, a snottier version of Teckstud?
post #106 of 128
If Apple makes Bing the default, and I can't change back to Google, then the iPhone is not for me.
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post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

It is seamless to switch apps on the iPhone - it is pretty much just like multitasking. So why not just leave Safari running in the background and use the Google window?

ROTFL.

It is nothing like multitasking - even with Apple apps that run in the background. I can't switch back and forth between two apps. I have to go to the deck where the other app is. I have to restart it. If it's also an Apple app that runs in the background, then state is maintained. Else I have to start from scratch to get to the view that I was previously on. The lack of multitasking is really ruining the user experience.

I think you will realize this when iPhone OS finally adds real multi-tasking and real task-switching. This is the single biggest reason why I just can't go back to the iPhone any more after Android. My understanding from web articles is that PalmOS does task task switching even better than the Android. Unfortunately since no one I know has a device, I haven't been able to see how they have implemented it.
post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post

Bing has nothing to do with Windows. End of story.


Spare us a little more understanding. Fanbois are now just lost a bit. The whole thing is quite surprising.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #109 of 128
Apple has finally lost it's mind!! Perhaps it's jobs. This not the first time as he was booted out for "loosing it". A deal with Microsoft only tells the world that it's products are superior and that Apple is just full of it. Google has the best services and if they take that away then I will never buy an iPhone. I have been waiting 3 yrs for them to get the device to where it needs to be, but it looks like it's going way south. I guess I'm gonna wait and perhaps support android and google. Funny ain't it google is now what apple used to be. Think different ...please! Yes apple you are right with the way you have been going with all your products, this 25yr die hard supporter now actually has to think different. Oh well all good things come to an end.
post #110 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

Apple has finally lost it's mind!! Perhaps it's jobs. This not the first time as he was booted out for "loosing it". A deal with Microsoft only tells the world that it's products are superior and that Apple is just full of it. Google has the best services and if they take that away then I will never buy an iPhone. I have been waiting 3 yrs for them to get the device to where it needs to be, but it looks like it's going way south. I guess I'm gonna wait and perhaps support android and google. Funny ain't it google is now what apple used to be. Think different ...please! Yes apple you are right with the way you have been going with all your products, this 25yr die hard supporter now actually has to think different. Oh well all good things come to an end.

I think Your reaction is exaggerated. I'm in IT-business for many years and I have seen a lot of "partner-issues".

The fact is that Google was a premium partner and got iPhone OS details weeks or month ahead others. That's a common practice.

Then they used this knowledge to get in a competition position.
So they will drop from a premium partner to a normal partner and they were aware of this before.
I doubt they still have the VIP status at iPhone OS 4 presentation they had at previous events.

I don't know if Steve Jobs is pissed, but I would be, although I'm aware that this kind of change in relationship is a common issue.

P.S.: I don't believe that Google provides an outstanding level of service quality. Their services have a great mindshare (Apple pushed them a lot) and they are free.
post #111 of 128
Another reason I refuse to use Bing. MS is pushing it's agenda via their search engine. I prefer real results that actually relate to what I'm searching for.

Search each for "Why is Windows So Expensive" and this is what you get

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Why+...H&qs=n&sc=1-40

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...d6ef47431c6a4a
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post #112 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

(ad nauseam)

What are you, a snottier version of Teckstud?

Maybe. I'm just trying to sound like everybody else.
post #113 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Another reason I refuse to use Bing. MS is pushing it's agenda via their search engine. I prefer real results that actually relate to what I'm searching for.

Search each for "Why is Windows So Expensive" and this is what you get

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Why+...H&qs=n&sc=1-40

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...d6ef47431c6a4a

Have you checked those links lately?
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post #114 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Have you checked those links lately?

I checked them just before I posted them this morning. I'm guessing you aren't hitting the U.S. servers? There have been reports that users in Canada aren't seeing the same thing as folks in the U.S.

If you're not in the U.S., this is the first result returned here: Link
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post #115 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Have you checked those links lately?

Seems to give me the same general set results I've seen reported elsewhere.
post #116 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Seems to give me the same general set results I've seen reported elsewhere.

And here's a screenshot of the exact thing that I see. The first search result doesn't even have the quoted phrase I searched for.

Link To Bing Result Screenshot
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post #117 of 128
And yet another odd one.

Search Bing for: "why ipod is better than zune"

The Bing first search result is: "10 Reason Why the Zune is Better Than the iPod"

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22why+...form=QBLH&qs=n

Amazing technology...

At least this one has the phrase you searched for in it.
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post #118 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalxEdward View Post

and they want their cd's back.



Excellent, but how long will it be before that joke no longer makes sense.
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post #119 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

What's the real threat from Google?

Apple has been wildly successful delivering premium products and Google's whole existence is predicated on free services that push search ads.

Who cares if Google has Android? It seems to be racing against itself to fall into the Windows Mobile trap - with dozens of slightly different OS versions and hardware configurations in the wild, snapping up niches to be sure, but not offering a compelling 'switch' case to Apple's core market.

Who cares if Google has Chrome? It's, once again, aimed directly at commodity hardware and the internet. It's not going to offer the integrated, consistent experience that Apple creates and sells for a premium. And Google's not going to be nearly as strict with its suppliers as Apple, leading to many of the same inconsistent performance and expectation problems of the Windows market. These are core features to Apple's market and they're not going to leave for Chrome any more than they'll leave for Windows 7.

I bet the Google/Apple 'split' -- evidenced by nothing more than Schmidt leaving Apple's board -- had far more to do with the FTC investigation than any rift or rivalry. The Google Voice thing is a red herring. Google Voice has reliability issues. It mucks up expectations (see: SMS/MMS routing). Did the relationship chill, or did Apple simply not want to see the press filled with people blaming Apple for the slightly-kludgy system and inconsistent performance?

Excellent post and analysis. The whole "feud" has been a manufactured story based on baseless speculation from day one.
post #120 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by satcomer View Post

I would to without paying the high price the GPS maps are charging. Those Maps need some competition.

Sometimes you get what you pay for

I've compared a friend with an Android phone and the google navigation with my Tom Tom app and the Tom Tom app consistently provides better routes.

Part of the map data you are paying for is advanced routing hints and optimizations. That's information that helps the routing algorithms build the routes, and that information has value which is why I am happy to purchase it.

If you are a casual user of GPS and were never going to own a UPS anyway, that's one thing. If you really rely on GPS, the tradition makers (Garmin, Magellan, Tom Tom, etc.) do add value. Then again I don't know why I am bothering, I know the "but it's FREEE" crowd will never admit it
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