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Sources detail physical design of Apple's upcoming tablet device - Page 5

post #161 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Additionally:

Had you taken a moment to actually follow the discussion we were having, you might have noticed that the 'Think Different' comment was actually regarding the use of advanced composites in the manufacture of structural components, and not about the physical design of the device.[/CENTER]

Unibody construction solves a number of problems with portable computers.
  • The anodised case is very hard and not prone to scratching.
  • The internal structure allows the case to act as an inner chassis and mount components
  • The metal case acts as a huge heat sink and means you don't need a fan or ventilation holes.
    directly onto it.

Would you get the same benefits from a composite?

C.
post #162 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I think it is a good fake. Although the reflections look a bit dodgy.
But it is clearly supposed to be an Apple design because of the home buttons.

C.

But these fakes are supposed to look like Apple designs, right? When was the last time the real thing was photographed in the wild a week before it was announced, let alone posed nicely, in focus, with good lighting? Ever?

People do seem to want to get sucked in though, especially at the height of fake season. The really odd part is the number of people who seriously seem to believe that the tablet design will be little more than a direct extrapolation of previous Apple products. Was the iPhone designed that way? Wasn't part of the wow factor for the iPhone the fact that it was so unlike anything Apple (or anybody else) had done before?

What's the lesson here?
Please don't be insane.
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post #163 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Think Different

[/CENTER]

Please stop this center-aligned crap, it's so hard to read, and it's mega-distracting.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #164 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Modern industrial design tends to stem from more masculine cues these days e.g. more pronounced/less rounded edges, and better defined/less smooth character lines.

The 'soft' curvy lines/surfaces of the iPhone and its ilk have grown rather 'long in the tooth' when compared to some of the more current gadget/industrial designs.

Yes, slightly different design cues. This is different from say the more pronounced design differences of the Droid vs that of the iPhone. Which amusingly still has rounded edges because, you know, pointy edges hurt.

Quote:
Your argument appears more related to actual form factor, which given the purpose of this device simply is what it is, leaving the design details to make the device truly distinctive.

That's a whole lotta words to say form follows function. What makes the device truly distinctive isn't the design details but the user experience. Which is more dominated by software and UI design rather than case design. Given the number of iPhone look-alikes that suck that's not a very difficult assertion to defend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Additionally:

Had you taken a moment to actually follow the discussion we were having, you might have noticed that the 'Think Different' comment was actually regarding the use of advanced composites in the manufacture of structural components, and not about the physical design of the device.

Gee, you made a 3d mock up composited on a MBP in order to discuss the case material and not form factor design? Interesting. In any case there's no reason not to apply the same litmus test to physical design as well as component materials.

Besides, given that Sony has a carbon fiber laptop it's not thinking all that different anyway. Especially if you tack on a silver bezel to your design to make it look like...oh my gosh...an iPhone 3G which also has a black plastic back.

Gee, and you still have roundy edges and is no more masculine in design than the MBP it sits on with fairly pronounced edges.

Tip #1 for mock up designers: not to get all defensive with the least bit of criticisms.
post #165 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

But these fakes are supposed to look like Apple designs, right? When was the last time the real thing was photographed in the wild a week before it was announced, let alone posed nicely, in focus, with good lighting? Ever?

Fat nano and curved nano, and iPhone 3G.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #166 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Please stop this center-aligned crap, it's so hard to read, and it's mega-distracting.

A case of form over function...amusingly an accusation leveled at Apple all the time.
post #167 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

A case of form over function...amusingly an accusation leveled at Apple all the time.

Very odd comment-reply.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #168 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Very odd comment-reply.

Centering his text is kinda a poser designer thing. That it makes it annoying to read doesn't matter as much as his image of being some kinda uber designer (hey look! I defy conventions! I thunk different!).

Form over function. Probably one of the worst criticisms on a design unless it was intended to be such.
post #169 of 257
I drive it a round for a few days and weeks, it smells, looks and feels new. I keep it in the garage: the first time I wash it - it looks just as new, ahh wonderful - then one day there is a stone chip on the hood, dang~; another day someone puts a dent in the side door! double dang: After a while it doesn't look new and I stop caring - its just a car. Same deal with IPhone, iTablet, Its my ego that doesn't like it scratched. I can try and protect it with a cover or whatever but after a while - why bother?

With PC laptops, droids etc they are not marketed to the ego as much Apple devices are, thats why we don't care if they get all scratched as much? Similar with multitouch after a while I get used to the features - they don't wow me like when I bought it.

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.



 Originally Posted by  thataveragejoe :  Next week  Korea Times, "I'm gay too"-Samsung



 



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Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.



 Originally Posted by  thataveragejoe :  Next week  Korea Times, "I'm gay too"-Samsung



 



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post #170 of 257
I'm mystified by the assertion that "modern design" is "more masculine", going for hard edges over curves.

Outside of the Droid, where is this phenomena in evidence? For instance, a newer phone that the Droid, the Nexus One, is all about curves. Certainly the Pre is a soft form. In the architecture world, gently undulating curves, made possible by computer assisted design and new materials, are all the rage. Furniture? Hadn't noticed any tendencies on way or the other. Cars? Absolutely not.

Could it be that DaHarder just pulled a random idea out of his ass because of vestigial enthusiasm for the Droid? Which almost immediately started to look a little silly?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #171 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

I'd like to ask all "artists" at once one and the same question...
They do realize why iPhone needs all case holes, which it has, and why tablet isn't going to?

...try again, in GOOD english. I will happily answer the question if you can make just a small degree of sense.
The iSlate cometh
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The iSlate cometh
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post #172 of 257
I took apart my Macbook (circa 2006) 2.0Ghz Core Duo.

I know a "tablet" has been made out of a Macbook BUT....

You could easily fit that logic board in a 3/4" thick housing (in fact I think it is pretty close already). I'm sure ventilation would be an issue, but with a aluminum chassis it would be able to dissipate heat rather quickly. I understand the components wouldn't be compatible with ARM. I'm just saying, the insides of a macbook are not that space taking. the thickest part is the battery, then the DVD drive, then the HDD & ports. The heaviest part is...the battery, then the screen.

Personally I think something as powerful as a MacBook should be doable in a 10" tablet style machine. Maybe not the same functionality, but something as powerful. Only problem I see is weight and battery life.
[center] "Hey look, it's in the center. I am SO cool!"[/center]
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[center] "Hey look, it's in the center. I am SO cool!"[/center]
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post #173 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Please stop this center-aligned crap, it's so hard to read, and it's mega-distracting.

That's why I stopped reading his/her threads a while back. Damned if I'm going to adjust my eyes to read its rubbish. Far more troll than that poor sod asking why he should buy a Mac in the GD thread who was getting shat on from a great height by numerous people. Sometimes I do not understand the members here.

Definitely one deserving of a collective non-feeding I'd suggest.
Tomorrow shall be love for the loveless;
And for the lover, tomorrow shall be love.
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Tomorrow shall be love for the loveless;
And for the lover, tomorrow shall be love.
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post #174 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm mystified by the assertion that "modern design" is "more masculine", going for hard edges over curves.

Outside of the Droid, where is this phenomena in evidence? For instance, a newer phone that the Droid, the Nexus One, is all about curves. Certainly the Pre is a soft form. In the architecture world, gently undulating curves, made possible by computer assisted design and new materials, are all the rage. Furniture? Hadn't noticed any tendencies on way or the other. Cars? Absolutely not.

Could it be that DaHarder just pulled a random idea out of his ass because of vestigial enthusiasm for the Droid? Which almost immediately started to look a little silly?

[CENTER]Sure Whatever...

Take a look at the latest automotive designs, from say... Mercedes Benz, whose latest efforts (GLK, E-Class, C-Class, GL, et al) lean towards a more aggressive/hard-edged design theme whereas they were all much 'softer' in form previously.

Examine the most current timepieces from say... TAG Heuer, many of which feature "more masculine' rectangular cases with strikingly beveled edges.

And YES! Even gadget design is showing 'more masculine/less organic' stylistic leanings, as indicated by Microsoft's ZUNE HD, and Motorola's DROID/Motoroi.

It's really not worth arguing about, though I find it interesting nonetheless.

Additionally: To the individual who seems bent on believing that I am somehow defending an iSlate/iTablet/iPad rendering of my own making... WRONG! It was posted earlier in the week on another tech site.[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #175 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Fat nano and curved nano, and iPhone 3G.

[CENTER]Exactly... Though actual FACTS appear to have very little influence on some of these individuals.[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #176 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Very odd comment-reply.

[CENTER]If...

Odd = Completely Inane

I agree wholeheartedly!
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #177 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Centering his text is kinda a poser designer thing. That it makes it annoying to read doesn't matter as much as his image of being some kinda uber designer (hey look! I defy conventions! I thunk different!).

Form over function. Probably one of the worst criticisms on a design unless it was intended to be such.

[CENTER]And unprovoked bitterness/hostility displayed in on-line forums often points to a defensive/insecure personality.

So Now You Know... [/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #178 of 257
[RIGHT]Hey DaHarder - Any response to message 161?
[/RIGHT]
C.
post #179 of 257
Duplicate Post
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #180 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

[RIGHT]Hey DaHarder - Any response to message 161?
[/RIGHT]
C.

[CENTER]Sure...

Simply because 'unibody' construction techniques are utilized, does not limit said component's manufacture to one substrate or another.

Example:

MacBook Pro/Unibody = Aluminum Alloy

MacBook/Unibody = Plastic Composite[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #181 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Sure...

Simply because 'unibody' construction techniques are utilized, does not limit said component's manufacture to one substrate or another.

Example:

MacBook Pro/Unibody = Aluminum Alloy
MacBook/Unibody = Plastic Composite[/CENTER]

That's not what he asked, though: he's asking if composite would give the same benefits as a unibody aluminum chassis, not if it's possible to make a unibody chassis out of materials other than aluminum.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #182 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Sure...

Simply because 'unibody' construction techniques are utilized, does not limit said component's manufacture to one substrate or another.

Example:

MacBook Pro/Unibody = Aluminum Alloy
MacBook/Unibody = Plastic Composite[/CENTER]

Erm.

But plastic does not conduct heat as well as metal.
But plastic does not conduct heat as well as metal. (duplicate post)

C.
post #183 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's not what he asked, though: he's asking if composite would give the same benefits as a unibody aluminum chassis, not if it's possible to make a unibody chassis out of materials other than aluminum.

[CENTER]It depends on the composite utilized...

Graphite/Carbon Fiber, Kevlar reinforced Plastic, etc.

They each have their own specific set of attributes.

Unibody construction is nothing more than a manufacturing technique that supports structural load by using an object's exterior, as opposed to using an internal frame or truss that is then covered with a non-load-bearing skin, and is completely independent of substrate used to create the monocoque/unibody component.


[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #184 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Erm.

But plastic does not conduct heat as well as metal.
But plastic does not conduct heat as well as metal. (duplicate post)

C.

[CENTER]Actually...

That depends on what 'metal' is used.
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #185 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Actually...

That depends on what 'metal' is used.
[/CENTER]

Right. That's why we were talking about aluminum. Composite materials don't conduct heat as well as aluminum, which is why a MacBook Air style uni-body design for a tablet, which in effect makes the entire enclosure a heat sink, would have definite design upsides.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #186 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Right. That's why we were talking about aluminum. Composite materials don't conduct heat as well as aluminum, which is why a MacBook Air style uni-body design for a tablet, which in effect makes the entire enclosure a heat sink, would have definite design upsides.

[CENTER]Like I stated previously...

Each substrate has its attributes.

Anyway: As it is my birthday today, and the spouse just announced that the 2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited parked in front of our house is my birthday present, I'll leave you to continue this 'discussion' without me.

Have Fun... I Sure Will![/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #187 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Actually...

That depends on what 'metal' is used.
[/CENTER]

Apple has only ever used two lightweight metals, aluminum and titanium, to construct its laptops. The thermal conductivities of each choice is as follows

Metal.................Thermal Conductivity (W/m/K)
Aluminum .......237
Titanium..........21.9

With a coefficient of thermal conductivity more than ten times that of titanium, aluminum is a no-brainer for the construction of Apple laptops. Plastic and composites are not even in the conversation if heat dissipation is a design requirement.
post #188 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

Apple has only ever used two lightweight metals, aluminum and titanium, to construct its laptops. The thermal conductivities of each choice is as follows

Metal.................Thermal Conductivity (W/m/K)
Aluminum .......237
Titanium..........21.9

With a coefficient of thermal conductivity more than ten times that of titanium, aluminum is a no-brainer for the construction of Apple laptops. Plastic and composites are not even in the conversation if heat dissipation is a design requirement.

Doesnt titanium get more brittle than aluminium when stressed too much? Wasnt that a problem with some Titanium PowerBooks, or was that simply poor engineering? How is magnesium, like used in the new HP Envys when it comes to thermal conductivity?
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post #189 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Doesnt titanium get more brittle than aluminium when stressed too much? Wasnt that a problem with some Titanium PowerBooks, or was that simply poor engineering? How is magnesium, like used in the new HP Envys when it comes to thermal conductivity?

I think that you missed by point. Aluminum's thermal properties make it a much better choice for a laptop than titanium. Titanium is stronger than aluminum, but its rigidity advantage over aluminum is not overwhelming.

As for magnesium, its thermal properties have an overwhelming advantage over titanium but are not as good as aluminum. Magnesium is lighter and weaker than aluminum. It has another property that makes it totally inappropriate for a laptop or any device where heat or electricity is an issue.

Magnesium is combustible. Once lit, it burns blue-white hot. Do you remember the video of the Dell laptop a few years back? When its battery caught fire, it was a sight to see. If that laptop had been constructed of magnesium, then the battery fire would have ignited the case and would have been immeasurably worse.

With a magnesium laptop, the Christmas bomber would not have needed to hide the explosives in his underwear. With a match and a few scrapings from the case of his computer, he could have created a massive hot fire on the plane.

Magnesium? Really bad idea.
post #190 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

I think that you missed by point.

I got the point. My questions were about other reasons why Titanium is bad, previous issue with titanium Macs and potential other materials that could be used, specifically magnesium as it seems to be growing in popularity a bit.
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post #191 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Composites? It could be....

One would need to find one that is stiff and recyclable. The most popularly known composite, carbon fiber / epoxy resin, isn't recyclable and is flimsy. Great tensile strength, very poor on several other measures. The recyclability is an issue, as it needs to be easy to reclaim all components. The current best way to get rid of a CF airframe is to burn it. They aren't easy to use for mass production items, most production CF is still hand laid, aluminum unibody an automated machine does most of the work, the work is even quicker if it's injection molded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

Apple has only ever used two lightweight metals, aluminum and titanium, to construct its laptops. The thermal conductivities of each choice is as follows

Metal.................Thermal Conductivity (W/m/K)
Aluminum .......237
Titanium..........21.9

With a coefficient of thermal conductivity more than ten times that of titanium, aluminum is a no-brainer for the construction of Apple laptops. Plastic and composites are not even in the conversation if heat dissipation is a design requirement.

Also, Titatnium is known to be b!tch to machine, aluminum anything but. A Titanium unibody would have a steep price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

I think that you missed by point. Aluminum's thermal properties make it a much better choice for a laptop than titanium. Titanium is stronger than aluminum, but its rigidity advantage over aluminum is not overwhelming.

As for magnesium, its thermal properties have an overwhelming advantage over titanium but are not as good as aluminum. Magnesium is lighter and weaker than aluminum. It has another property that makes it totally inappropriate for a laptop or any device where heat or electricity is an issue.

Magnesium is combustible. Once lit, it burns blue-white hot. Do you remember the video of the Dell laptop a few years back? When its battery caught fire, it was a sight to see. If that laptop had been constructed of magnesium, then the battery fire would have ignited the case and would have been immeasurably worse.

With a magnesium laptop, the Christmas bomber would not have needed to hide the explosives in his underwear. With a match and a few scrapings from the case of his computer, he could have created a massive hot fire on the plane.

Magnesium? Really bad idea.

Yeah, it seems to me that people are afraid of one-in-a-million risks. For that matter, people don't seem to gauge risks properly.

I wonder if people should start taking away kid's Hot Wheels toys, zinc is highly flamable too. Nikon cameras use magnesium shells. I think someone could use a Lenovo notebook. Lithium is flammable too, I haven't seen a lot of call to get rid of it as a battery material.
post #192 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

I think that you missed by point. Aluminum's thermal properties make it a much better choice for a laptop than titanium. Titanium is stronger than aluminum, but its rigidity advantage over aluminum is not overwhelming.

As for magnesium, its thermal properties have an overwhelming advantage over titanium but are not as good as aluminum. Magnesium is lighter and weaker than aluminum. It has another property that makes it totally inappropriate for a laptop or any device where heat or electricity is an issue.

Magnesium is combustible. Once lit, it burns blue-white hot. Do you remember the video of the Dell laptop a few years back? When its battery caught fire, it was a sight to see. If that laptop had been constructed of magnesium, then the battery fire would have ignited the case and would have been immeasurably worse.

With a magnesium laptop, the Christmas bomber would not have needed to hide the explosives in his underwear. With a match and a few scrapings from the case of his computer, he could have created a massive hot fire on the plane.

Magnesium? Really bad idea.


I imagine any magnesium laptop is an alloy of some sort not subject to combustion. Any maker of a magnesium based laptop would subject themselves to huge liability otherwise. I assume HP is not THAT stupid. I would imagine the HP laptops referred are probably a magnesium / aluminum alloy.

No one makes a laptop that could cause a "massive hot fire" with a few scrapings from the case and match.
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post #193 of 257
I remember burning magnesium in the basement when I was a kid. It does indeed burn white-hot, but I also remember that it took a blowtorch to get it started.
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post #194 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I imagine any magnesium laptop is an alloy of some sort not subject to combustion. Any maker of a magnesium based laptop would subject themselves to huge liability otherwise. I assume HP is not THAT stupid. I would imagine the HP laptops referred are probably a magnesium / aluminum alloy.

No one makes a laptop that could cause a "massive hot fire" with a few scrapings from the case and match.

Many Thinkpads have had magnesium frames for quite some time, and it looks like many models still use it. I've yet to hear of lawsuits. It's probably safer than using lithium for battery materials.
post #195 of 257
I love these discussions!
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post #196 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I remember burning magnesium in the basement when I was a kid. It does indeed burn white-hot, but I also remember that it took a blowtorch to get it started.

It needs to be 3100 °C / 5600 °F. Not an easy temperature to achieve. It's probably why the actually as much of a risk as people think it is. A butane torch achieves 1970 °C / 3578 °F. Any oxyacetylene torch gets to the desired temperature, but that's not going to be easy to pass through security.
post #197 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It needs to be 3100 °C / 5600 °F. Not an easy temperature to achieve. It's probably why the actually as much of a risk as people think it is. A butane torch achieves 1970 °C / 3578 °F. Any oxyacetylene torch gets to the desired temperature, but that's not going to be easy to pass through security.

I don't doubt your numbers, but I'm sure we never had anything hotter than a hardware store butane torch at home, and that worked just fine to ignite magnesium. Does anybody remember slot cars? They were built on magnesium frames. Whenever a car got wrecked beyond repair, we'd torch it on the basement floor. Of course you are correct that you'd never get a torch of any kind through airport security (or so I'd like to think), and even if you could, the most you'd get is a fire, not an explosion. The biggest problem with magnesium as I recall is that it's brittle.
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post #198 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It needs to be 3100 °C / 5600 °F. Not an easy temperature to achieve. It's probably why the actually as much of a risk as people think it is. A butane torch achieves 1970 °C / 3578 °F. Any oxyacetylene torch gets to the desired temperature, but that's not going to be easy to pass through security.

That is the temp magnesium burns at, but that is not the temp needed to ignite it. For example, they use magnesium in fireworks and flares. For another example, I lit magnesium on fire in high school chemistry class (it was 14 years ago but I still remember!). It comes it little strips, and magnesium naturally forms a thin layer of oxide on its exterior (which is why it doesn't spontaneously combust). You put that little strip of magnesium in the flame of a bunsen burner, and Wheeeee! bright white light!

I believe it burns quite fast. This is why the magnesium in fireworks / flares aren't causing massive fires left and right. The magnesium is powdered, giving it a large surface area, and is consumed long before it reaches the ground.
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post #199 of 257




Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #200 of 257
Quote:

That seems overly bulky for Apple. I wonder if theyll just let 3rd-parties make after-market stands to suit various needs and just keep the tablet design sleek and simple.
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