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Sources detail physical design of Apple's upcoming tablet device - Page 3

post #81 of 257
The software is the key, and for my interest, how well the handwriting recognition works. I would love to be able to take electronic, handwritten notes. I generate pages of handwritten notes a day during phone conferences - and I can do that automatically while paying attention to the conversation. Typing notes with two hands on a keyboard is distracting.

E-reader, note taker with quick and easy handwriting recognition, mobile web surfer, plus all the cloud computing features of the iPhone (email, calendar, SMS, iTunes) -- that would be a killer device IMHO.
post #82 of 257
I agree Solipsism that a completely new OS is very unlikely.

My recommendation would be that there will be a UI framework distinct for the phone, and the tablet. UIKit currently drives the iPhone's interface. If Apple creates a new version for the tablet, that could work. Then you choose: develop for iPhone or Tablet.

Technically, it's not a new OS. The core will still be iPhone. But the UI will be run by a separate framework to UIKit.

This is my estimation as a developer. It makes the most sense to me.
post #83 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

it's a convertible laptop.

From my memory of buying a tablet a couple of years ago, the picture you commented on shows a convertible tablet, but not a slate tablet.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #84 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Obviously Apple is copying this:



Innovative my ass.

Right down to the pin hole camera lens

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post #85 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You're wrong.

Partially both, the middle back is flat vertically about 75% of the height, but it is curved horizontally. To some people, it might look flat in the middle, but it's a broad curve. It's easier to tell when you place a straightedge or ruler against the back.
post #86 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I can't see an iPad being as thin as an iPhone. It'd be too thin for a device that big.

Holding it for long periods of time would induce pain in the area between the thumb and pointing finger. The underside of the device wouldn't be able to rest on the entire surface of the palm, resting only on the tips of the four fingers, which would also act as a fulcrum with most of the opposing weight pushing up on the meaty part of the thumb/pointing finger junction.

Try it. Grab a hardcover book about the same dimensions as the purported iPad to see what I'm talking about. And don't forget to "type" on the screen. Give it 30 seconds for your wrist to get sore.

It'd either have to be thicker or provide some kind of crazy handle/palm rest underneath.

For me, that is the key hurdle that makes this announcement so interesting.

From my experience of tablets, there are few ergonomically valid positions where a tablet is comfortable and this should fail.
From my experience of Apple, they can make devices work when no-one else could.

This unstoppable force will meet its immovable object on the 27th.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #87 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How did you arrive at such an oddly specific dimension?

The first iPhone is 11.6mm, LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

From a useability standpoint, I think a curved back would be a mistake. Not saying Apple won't do it, but if you tap anything off center when it's resting on a table, you'll rock the device. It happens with iPhone, but iPhone is meant to be hand held, I don't expect a large tablet to be held the same way.

Yes, but if the included pop-out rest that I have been banging on about for the last two years is included the device would rest steady on any flat surface at say 17º. This is the key hardware feature I have been continually saying the tablet needs to be a practical device. The mostly curved back is there for when the rest is in its closed position, so the tablet is nicer to hold on the couch. It would be aesthetically more pleasing also.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #88 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

From my memory of buying a tablet a couple of years ago, the picture you commented on shows a convertible tablet, but not a slate tablet.

A tablet is a tablet, a "convertible tablet" is a laptop that converts into a tablet part time. i.e. - a convertible laptop and not really a tablet at all. These devices are primarily designed as and used as laptops, but they have a capability to mimic a tablet.
post #89 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And more seriously: DaHarder, if you want to be taken seriously and not just come off like another silly troll (not that it's entirely clear that you do, but, you know, benefit of the doubt and all), you really need to do better than point to a flat screen with a bezel and chant "Neener neener neener, Apple is a copycat."

I agree, I would not take the stance that it's not a copy of the HP's form. There are similarities, but there is only so much you can diverge from the basic rectangular screen with a bezel. I'm sure it's possible to make a non-rectangular screen, the costs are probably too high and with minimal benefit. I bet the HP isn't Multitouch either, so there's something new, I don't think any tablet or tablet-like device is multitouch yet.

It isn't anything like the SuperShuffle vs. Apple shuffle where an exact combination of color, dimensions and radii were used from Apple's version to the Taiwanese knock-off with almost no changes, they changed the button on front and added a slider on the back.
post #90 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]It does very little to substantiate your argument when all you do is resort to name-calling and (random) insults.

Again: If you fail to recognize the aesthetic similarities between the two devices in question... No Problem, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it does exist.

Now Feel Free To Move Along.[/CENTER]

You don't know what you're talking about. I've been a practicing designer and studied design for years and years.

You've said about five times now on this thread that the design similarities are obvious, yet beyond the fact that they are both square screens you have yet to elucidate what they are.

I've also been here long enough to know that you use this tactic over and over again in your posts. You always use this argument that what you see is "obvious" and if others can't see it they are blind. Then you imply that the other person is just saying something over and over and hoping it to be true, when in fact this is precisely what you are doing.

I've decided that you must just be joking or that you are seriously f*cked up in the head. The centred text lends the later explanation more weight, but I don't care anymore.

Adding to ignore list in 3, 2, 1 ...
post #91 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

A tablet is a tablet, a "convertible tablet" is a laptop that converts into a tablet part time. i.e. - a convertible laptop and not really a tablet at all. These devices are primarily designed as and used as laptops, but they have a capability to mimic a tablet.

[CENTER]Actually...

The Hp/Compaq TC1XXX was/is a tablet/slate computer with a fully detachable keyboard, which made it rather unique in the marketplace.

The More You Know... [/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #92 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

A tablet is a tablet, a "convertible tablet" is a laptop that converts into a tablet part time. i.e. - a convertible laptop and not really a tablet at all. These devices are primarily designed as and used as laptops, but they have a capability to mimic a tablet.

I know what you mean, but those are the terms used when you buy the PC versions of these computers. Slate and convertible being types of tablet computer.

Personally, I like 'slab'. Reminds me of chocolate.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #93 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You're wrong.

I know you are, but what am I?
post #94 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

I agree Solipsism that a completely new OS is very unlikely.

My recommendation would be that there will be a UI framework distinct for the phone, and the tablet. UIKit currently drives the iPhone's interface. If Apple creates a new version for the tablet, that could work. Then you choose: develop for iPhone or Tablet.

Technically, it's not a new OS. The core will still be iPhone. But the UI will be run by a separate framework to UIKit.

This is my estimation as a developer. It makes the most sense to me.

If you an entirely different UI with a completely different set of drivers, varying frameworks and foundations that arent needed from another device then its not a different flavour OS. By the reckoning that the core is the same then AppleTV OS, Mac OS and iPhone are the same OS because they use Darwin and certain fall under the OS X umbrella. My money is on this being a bulkier OS than iPhone OS and having a distinct name.

PS: I have to assume that with the emergence of the iPhone OS being so lightweight that the next AppleTV OS will be based on it, rather than Mac OS X.
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post #95 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Obviously Apple is copying this:



Innovative my ass.

[CENTER]Copying = No

Using As Inspiration = Definitely!

(after all it is 'arguably' the original slate)


[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #96 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I bet you guys $1M is isn't thinner than 11.6mm at its thickest point. These guys are guessing, they haven't seen it. It will be aluminum and "shaped" more like the 3G. These guys are basically suggesting it won't have a curved back, and I think their "guess" is wrong.

I think it will be much thinner. The original iPhone had to put stack everything on top of itself. Namely the battery and logic board, but with a tablet a sold 8x the size yet still likely running ARM and a lot of the same internal parts of the iPhone and Touch, with some exceptions, they can separate everything better. I’d be happier with a 11.6mm device as it would mean a larger battery, which is always good. Of course, the battery can be heavy and quickly increase the weight and perhaps might be overkill for what I think the device will be so I’m going more with the iPod Touch’s 8.5mmm but increasing my guess to an even 9.0mm.

PS: I won’t eat a hat if I’m wrong.
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post #97 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think it will be much thinner. The original iPhone had to put stack everything on top of itself. Namely the battery and logic board, but with a tablet a sold 8x the size yet still likely running ARM and a lot of the same internal parts of the iPhone and Touch, with some exceptions, they can separate everything better. Id be happier with a 11.6mm device as it would mean a larger battery, which is always good. Of course, the battery can be heavy and quickly increase the weight and perhaps might be overkill for what I think the device will be so Im going more with the iPod Touchs 8.5mmm but increasing my guess to an even 9.0mm.

PS: I wont eat a hat if Im wrong.

More room to play = more space to shove new stuff, like maybe mini display port?
post #98 of 257
Was anyone expecting it to be different?

I've only seen really one other design that had any hope of being done... that was the one that had the home button on the longer side so as to cause the screen to be offset to the side for one handed holding comfort.

There really isn't any other option that would make sense is there? Unless you believe the transparent screen silliness.
post #99 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think it will be much thinner. The original iPhone had to put stack everything on top of itself. Namely the battery and logic board, but with a tablet a sold 8x the size yet still likely running ARM and a lot of the same internal parts of the iPhone and Touch, with some exceptions, they can separate everything better. I’d be happier with a 11.6mm device as it would mean a larger battery, which is always good. Of course, the battery can be heavy and quickly increase the weight and perhaps might be overkill for what I think the device will be so I’m going more with the iPod Touch’s 8.5mmm but increasing my guess to an even 9.0mm.

PS: I won’t eat a hat if I’m wrong.

Oh, come on Solipsism, hat eating is what all the cool kids are doing!

Tell you what: if the tablet doesn't extend the iPhone OS modal computing environment as a credible laptop replacement for the majority of users, I'll my and your hat both.

Yes, I'm link-baiting back to a thread I started on a topic I'm interested in, on account of the shamelessness.
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post #100 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

More room to play = more space to shove new stuff, like maybe mini display port?

I would like to see a locking mDP port instead of the 8 year old 30-pin Dock Connector port.. That port is big. Yeah, yeah yeah! Its not small. No, no, no! On the other hand, DisplayPort can push better than USB2.0 speeds maxing out at ~750Mbps.

Okay, maybe not, but if they were going to start to implement a new data/power port standard into their device then Id think it would be best to do it with a tablet instead of with an iPod or iPhone which already use the well weathered connector.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #101 of 257
I'd like to think that the charger and phone jack are not on the "bottom" part as shown on that rendering. I am very curious to using that tablet, i hope it's very light and comfortable to hold for long hours ... a conventional laptop sits on ones lap so it makes it easy ... this can be questionable on the hands and arms ... time will tell.. i wish i can fast forward to the 27th !
post #102 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

.. Personally, I like 'slab'. Reminds me of chocolate.

mmmm.... chocolate

post #103 of 257
Excellent article guys, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Wednesdayyyyyyy!!!!
post #104 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Oh, come on Solipsism, hat eating is what all the cool kids are doing!

Tell you what: if the tablet doesn't extend the iPhone OS modal computing environment as a credible laptop replacement for the majority of users, I'll my and your hat both.

Yes, I'm link-baiting back to a thread I started on a topic I'm interested in, on account of the shamelessness.

I shamelessly posted my earning predictions from over 2 months ago on a thread just yesterday. I see nothing wrong with that. Just try not to pull a muscle when you pat yourself on the back.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #105 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you an entirely different UI with a completely different set of drivers, varying frameworks and foundations that arent needed from another device then its not a different flavour OS. By the reckoning that the core is the same then AppleTV OS, Mac OS and iPhone are the same OS because they use Darwin and certain fall under the OS X umbrella. My money is on this being a bulkier OS than iPhone OS and having a distinct name.

PS: I have to assume that with the emergence of the iPhone OS being so lightweight that the next AppleTV OS will be based on it, rather than Mac OS X.

AppleTV was basically a slightly altered Mac OS X 10.4. I'd class it as the same OS.

iPhone OS made significant changes to most frameworks. Not much, but enough. Foundation, for example, was cut down dramatically in size. Many layers of the OS were optimized for mobile usage etc.

The definition of an OS is difficult to pin down. I'm on the fence as to how they will advertise this to developers. Perhaps they will ADD to UIKit additions for tablet-only use. Maybe an additional kit and the tablet also running windowed iPhone apps like widgets.

But there's one thing I'm certain on: if they're going to use a platform, it would be iPhone OS. iPhone OS is not, in itself, limited to the look, feel, access and capabilities it has ATM. That's Apple's choice in how they've developed UIKit. The OS core (and the changes from Desktop OS X) are just as capable as the mac version.

UIKit, however, is currently not up to that same complexity and heft.

Perhaps changes to the UIKit, perhaps adding a new framework. Maybe both. But will it use Desktop OS X? No. Desktop OS X is just the same, plus a tonne of backwards compatibility, flash, and other dependencies that are simply unimportant for a new touch device.

If they'll make a new mobile device, it will be on a foundation of iPhone. Not a foundation of OS X Desktop.
post #106 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

A tablet is a tablet, a "convertible tablet" is a laptop that converts into a tablet part time. i.e. - a convertible laptop and not really a tablet at all. These devices are primarily designed as and used as laptops, but they have a capability to mimic a tablet.

That is part of the reason convertible tablets haven't caught on. They are primarily designed as laptops and because the OS and the programs are designed for a keyboard and mouse/trackpad, the tablet functionality falls short of what it could be.

If you want a good tablet, everything (hardware and software) has to be purpose built for a tablet and touch input. That is what some manufacturers have recently started doing (although they often still rely on Windows 7 which was primarily designed for cursor input) and is what Apple is going to do.

Learn from the automobile industry, putting a pickup box on a car does not make it a truck.

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post #107 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You're wrong.

no, you are wrong. as i type, i've layed down my 3G on the table and it doesn't wobble. flat with curved edges, my friend.
post #108 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would like to see a locking mDP port instead of the 8 year old 30-pin Dock Connector port.. That port is big. Yeah, yeah yeah! Its not small. No, no, no! On the other hand, DisplayPort can push better than USB2.0 speeds maxing out at ~750Mbps.

Okay, maybe not, but if they were going to start to implement a new data/power port standard into their device then Id think it would be best to do it with a tablet instead of with an iPod or iPhone which already use the well weathered connector.

I would expect that something will have to be done for power. It looks like USB isn't supposed to deliver more than 2.5 watts, a tablet screen of any substance is probably going to need more than that. I don't see anything in DisplayPort that says it can deliver a useful amount of power.
post #109 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

no, you are wrong. as i type, i've layed down my 3G on the table and it doesn't wobble. flat with curved edges, my friend.

Sorry, unless they changed the molds, you're probably executing the test poorly. Tap the side edges of the screen, and it will likely wobble.

Humans are bad at telling curve from straight. You can also run a straight edge horizontally across the back, you should see daylight except in the very middle, it should be very apparent.
post #110 of 257
lots of "posters" have been talking about how they think Apple devices focus more on aesthetics than practicle design of their devices. Well, i'd have to disagree when it comes to the iphone.

I was one of those that loved the aluminum backed 1.0, but now that i bought the 3G (18 months ago), i really appreciate the plastic (scratch resistant) back that's on it. It's very soft to the touch and the gripping is moderately to very good. Sure it may slip if you have gloves on or slide on your dashboard, but if you hold it for more than a minute, your hand gets a bit warm and the natural chemistry in your skin allows you to have better grip on it. The surface is treated in some way that really works well at preventing scratches (i've heard it's some kind of silicone that's polished).

I've dropped it, had is slide around in my car on hard surfaces and the likes, and it has barely the slightest scratches on it. My biggest issue is the cracking though. The polycarbonate is very thin around the edges and buttons and has developed hair-line cracks. However, the shinny finish on the plastic has worn a bit at the corners. probably from putting it in and out of my pocket constantly to check email and moderate use.

I even have the white version and it hasn't discolored or anything. Actually, i bought the white model because it doesn't show fingerprints at ALL. I think the 3G is a very good improvement from the 1.0. The only other think i really don't like about the design is the chrome rim around the bezel. It shows lots of scratches and just looks like something out of the 70's. I hope they consider the plastic back for the Tablet, minus the chrome.

If you look at the new MacBook (white), my guess is that the tablet is going to look very similar to that. Perhaps it may even have the solid rubber back like the Macbook has too, or at least feet like the MBP's.
post #111 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Sorry, unless they changed the molds, you're probably executing the test poorly. Tap the side edges of the screen, and it will likely wobble.

Humans are bad at telling curve from straight. You can also run a straight edge horizontally across the back, you should see daylight except in the very middle, it should be very apparent.

correct, it wobbles when you tap the edges on the long sides, but not on the short sides, like at the home button.
post #112 of 257
Ladies and Gentlemen...

Hello.

Yes, it is I, the Apple Tapplet.

I look forward to bringing years of joy to millions of citizens around the world!

Steve is a very kind and brilliant man, and I thank him for giving me life --

Alas, most of you have demanded it, but gotten nowhere.

But that's no reason to be left out of what could easily be the most useful, most used, most you-gotta-have-this device, anywhere, at anytime, maybe, in the history of man -- the start of a new decade ushers in the beginning of a new, exciting era of mobility --

me, the Apple Tapplet

I will see you all soon -- on 1.27.2010

With Love,

:-)

Tapplet
post #113 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

In the past it has usually been the protective case manufacturers that have leaked the form factor of new designs. To date we have not seen any prototypes. This might indicate that the protective cases are incompatible with the possible touch interface on the back. I hope it does include this feature. I never used a protective case anyway. I can live with a few scratches for a less bulky feeling device.

The iPod touch is much slimmer than a phone so bulking it up is no big deal. The real problem for me is how slippery it is. I chose the Griffin Reveal, a polycarbonate case that bills itself as the thinnest on the market, and I really like how it feels in my hand. It's a bit hard to adjust the volume and, of course, the plastic is getting scratches, but I'll buy one for my next touch.
post #114 of 257
The glass in the article looks like a iPhone screen. If you scale an iPhone up to 10" with out changing the size of the black borders it looks different than that.
post #115 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

I agree Solipsism that a completely new OS is very unlikely.

My recommendation would be that there will be a UI framework distinct for the phone, and the tablet. UIKit currently drives the iPhone's interface. If Apple creates a new version for the tablet, that could work. Then you choose: develop for iPhone or Tablet.

Technically, it's not a new OS. The core will still be iPhone. But the UI will be run by a separate framework to UIKit.

This is my estimation as a developer. It makes the most sense to me.

If it can't do anything more than my iPhone, explain to me- Why Do I Want This?
post #116 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

lots of "posters" have been talking about how they think Apple devices focus more on aesthetics than practicle design of their devices. Well, i'd have to disagree when it comes to the iphone.

I was one of those that loved the aluminum backed 1.0, but now that i bought the 3G (18 months ago), i really appreciate the plastic (scratch resistant) back that's on it.

They made it from plastic because it saved them money. The iPhone 2G has a superior case, but the curved design of the 3G is better. It's also worth noting the 2G iPhone is actually slightly narrower across the width of the phone, which in turn makes it easier to hold, despite the superior curved shape of the 3G. The next iPhone may go back to the aluminum casing, perhaps a few colors, but doubtful.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #117 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkoolaid View Post

If it can't do anything more than my iPhone, explain to me- Why Do I Want This?

Because the tablet will be a Mac, despite most people here who disagree with me. Consider you already own a 24" iMac let's say, well for a portable computer rather than a MacBook you might choose the tablet, a.k.a. Mac touch. A 10" aluminum slab of OS X touch magic! The secret to this tablet, besides its innovative UI, is the button on the back that when pressed it pops out a rest that when placed on any flat surface holds this tablet at around 17º, and just as important, when pushed back in to place, that push-stand disappears. It sits so neatly flush with the rear side of Mac touch that it's hard to tell it even exists. So you pop it in when on the bus, the couch or in the bed, and you pop in out when sitting on the train, in a plane, at school or at the kitchen table. You got that?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #118 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Because the tablet will be a Mac, despite most people here who disagree with me. Consider you already own a 24" iMac let's say, well for a portable computer rather than a MacBook you might choose the tablet, a.k.a. Mac touch. A 10" aluminum slab of OS X touch magic!

Why do I have this sinking feeling that you're going to declare whatever style of UI and underpinnings that Apple does use to be "Mac Touch OS", just as you predicted?
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post #119 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

They made it from plastic because it saved them money. The iPhone 2G has a superior case, but the curved design of the 3G is better. It's also worth noting the 2G iPhone is actually slightly narrower across the width of the phone, which in turn makes it easier to hold, despite the superior curved shape of the 3G. The next iPhone may go back to the aluminum casing, perhaps a few colors, but doubtful.

I have also read that the primary reason they switched to plastic wasn't to save money, but to get a better signal. If you notice the 2G case has a bit of plastic, where the receiving end is.
post #120 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Why do I have this sinking feeling that you're going to declare whatever style of UI and underpinnings that Apple does use to be "Mac Touch OS", just as you predicted?

If Apple calls it OS X touch then I predicted that.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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