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Monitor question

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I just noticed that when standing up and looking down at my monitor anyplace there is color is shaking and shimmering. Is this normal?
post #2 of 18
Yes, it has to do with the viewing angle of the monitor. Some are better than others at more extreme angles.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

Yes, it has to do with the viewing angle of the monitor. Some are better than others at more extreme angles.

I expect to see a daed picture at an angle, but I was surprised to see it shaking and shimmering.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post

I expect to see a daed picture at an angle, but I was surprised to see it shaking and shimmering.

Low quality displays use dithering to simulate more colors, which quickly changes pixels to different colors and gives a shimmering effect. You'll notice it more in darker scenes. If you open say Photoshop and make a black to white gradient, you should see the same shimmering in areas close to the black levels quite clearly.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Low quality displays use dithering to simulate more colors, which quickly changes pixels to different colors and gives a shimmering effect. You'll notice it more in darker scenes. If you open say Photoshop and make a black to white gradient, you should see the same shimmering in areas close to the black levels quite clearly.

I thought this was a decent Monitor-its a Samsung.
Any recommendations on a Monitor? I really don't want anything bigger than a 22 incher-smaller the better for me.
post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post

I thought this was a decent Monitor-its a Samsung.
Any recommendations on a Monitor? I really don't want anything bigger than a 22 incher-smaller the better for me.

Are you unhappy with the Samsung just because it doesn't have impressive viewing angles? Or is there a reason you need to view the display from above? I too thought Samsung had a good reputation for nice displays.
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post

I thought this was a decent Monitor-its a Samsung.
Any recommendations on a Monitor? I really don't want anything bigger than a 22 incher-smaller the better for me.

Samsung did have a good reputation a while ago probably from their PVA panels but their TN panels are low quality - I had a SyncMaster TN that was absolutely terrible quality, even worse than a bargain basement TN.

IPS and PVA panels are now cheap enough that TN should never come into consideration for a main monitor. You can usually tell from the advertised viewing angles - TN are always 160 and the others 178.

A Samsung model with PVA is the F2380 23" monitor:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/168747

or the F2080 20" model:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...idescreen.html

I personally recommend either Dell or HP IPS displays.

Dell 2209WA 22" IPS:

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/prod...p&sku=320-7825

HP LP2475W 24" IPS but more expensive:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAA#ps-sellers

Their more affordable HP model is the LP2275W but this is PVA so I'd take the Dell over this:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAg#ps-sellers

Dell have a great warranty - 3 year, zero dead pixels.
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

Are you unhappy with the Samsung just because it doesn't have impressive viewing angles? Or is there a reason you need to view the display from above? I too thought Samsung had a good reputation for nice displays.

I'm asking mainly because I have been having vertigo and migraine heaqdaches recently and want to make sure its not the monitor. I just got it 3 weeks ago.
Also, the monitor has a narrow base and it shakes on the table.
post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Samsung did have a good reputation a while ago probably from their PVA panels but their TN panels are low quality - I had a SyncMaster TN that was absolutely terrible quality, even worse than a bargain basement TN.

IPS and PVA panels are now cheap enough that TN should never come into consideration for a main monitor. You can usually tell from the advertised viewing angles - TN are always 160 and the others 178.

A Samsung model with PVA is the F2380 23" monitor:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/168747

or the F2080 20" model:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...idescreen.html

I personally recommend either Dell or HP IPS displays.

Dell 2209WA 22" IPS:

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/prod...p&sku=320-7825

HP LP2475W 24" IPS but more expensive:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAA#ps-sellers

Their more affordable HP model is the LP2275W but this is PVA so I'd take the Dell over this:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAg#ps-sellers

Dell have a great warranty - 3 year, zero dead pixels.

The Samsung 20 inch doesn't have a very good ms rate.
I'll check out the others but I hate Dell. Ever since he said Apple should sell its assets and fold a few years back.
HP is quite expensive!
I should add that viewing angle is not that important to me, I just mentioned that shimmer looking down on the monitor because i just happened to notice it by accident and want to make sure the screen flicker isn't causing my vertigo or headaches (although I don't notice a shimmer straight on).
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post

The Samsung 20 inch doesn't have a very good ms rate.

You won't get good refresh rates in PVA or IPS unfortunately. To avoid the vertigo depends on what element is causing the effect. TN panels are pretty much all 6-bit dithered so they are flickering to reproduce more colors, there's the fluorescent backlight and there's the monitor refresh.

This site has listed a few things:

http://mitchfincher.blogspot.com/200...-monitors.html

One commenter mentioned no difference with LED backlight vs CCFL, another said going from 5ms to 2ms response time helped sort the vertigo sensation. Not all manufacturers list the right response values though as they measure them differently.

Do you get the feeling when reading text or when you see things moving on screen? It could be to do with the sharpness of the screen or maybe the pixel density is high so is causing eye strain. I noticed a big difference working with text on a 1680 x 1050 20" screen and a 1680 x 1050 22" screen.

Try some of the tests here and see how your monitor comes out:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/clock_phase.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php

The problem will be finding a monitor that doesn't cause any headaches without trying it out first. What is the monitor you are using just now? Model, resolution, size etc.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You won't get good refresh rates in PVA or IPS unfortunately. To avoid the vertigo depends on what element is causing the effect. TN panels are pretty much all 6-bit dithered so they are flickering to reproduce more colors, there's the fluorescent backlight and there's the monitor refresh.

This site has listed a few things:

http://mitchfincher.blogspot.com/200...-monitors.html

One commenter mentioned no difference with LED backlight vs CCFL, another said going from 5ms to 2ms response time helped sort the vertigo sensation. Not all manufacturers list the right response values though as they measure them differently.

Do you get the feeling when reading text or when you see things moving on screen? It could be to do with the sharpness of the screen or maybe the pixel density is high so is causing eye strain. I noticed a big difference working with text on a 1680 x 1050 20" screen and a 1680 x 1050 22" screen.

Try some of the tests here and see how your monitor comes out:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/clock_phase.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php

The problem will be finding a monitor that doesn't cause any headaches without trying it out first. What is the monitor you are using just now? Model, resolution, size etc.

Thank you for all the info. I use an LCD Samsung (not a widescreen) Model 943BX at work for the last 2 years and I just started getting Vertigo a few months ago. It may be a coincidence that I got my Mini to replace my iBook and started having the Vertigo because I was also rear ended in my car a few months ago. The Vertigo started happenening a long time after the accident though. Funny thing is when the Vertigo eases off I get a migraine, but I think that's due more to sinus congestion than anything else because sudafed helps that. I get severe pain behind my eyes and even lose vision for a while.
Anyway, back to the monitor. I originally decided to get a similar model to the one i use at work since it didn't bother my eyes, so I bought the Samsung 943BT. I found it to be way too bright and I realize I have less light at home than at work. I returned it and bought the one I have now at Costco.
I am at work now so I don't know the Model Number and the other info but I will come back here and list it all as soon as I get home.
post #12 of 18
I hope you've seen an eye doctor.
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

I hope you've seen an eye doctor.

I've actually had my eyes checked before and it was OK.
I am going to see a Neurologist and a ENT specialist also. I think it's a combo sinus issue and/or inner ear issue. The Monitor came into my mind when I happened to be looking down and saw the flickering/shimmering. I need to rule that out, besides my current monitor is shaky on its base (you'd think Samsung would test that out before selling it). Maybe the shaking is also bothering me? Its not excessive because I try not to make any sudden movements but it is annoying.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
My Monitor is a Samsung 2233. It is 21.5 inches, widescreen. Resolution is 1920x1080. Video is 5ms. Aspect ratio is 16:9
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve666 View Post

My Monitor is a Samsung 2233. It is 21.5 inches, widescreen. Resolution is 1920x1080. Video is 5ms. Aspect ratio is 16:9

Both that one and the one at your work have 5ms response times and TN panels. The high resolution could be causing some eye strain but the brightness you mention could be a problem too. I tend to have very low light at home so I set all my devices to very low brightness or it hurts looking at the screen for a while. I've tried doing that with cheap TN panels before and found the backlight flickered badly so I kept it above 90%.

You probably won't be able to determine what display will be suitable without trying them out unfortunately.
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Both that one and the one at your work have 5ms response times and TN panels. The high resolution could be causing some eye strain but the brightness you mention could be a problem too. I tend to have very low light at home so I set all my devices to very low brightness or it hurts looking at the screen for a while. I've tried doing that with cheap TN panels before and found the backlight flickered badly so I kept it above 90%.

You probably won't be able to determine what display will be suitable without trying them out unfortunately.

I'm afraid you're right. maybe I'll try another brand, like Acer or Viewsonic, and see if I notice a difference. The widescreen doesn't help either because it makes me have to shift my head or eyes from left to right in a wider arc.
post #17 of 18
I use my Samsung TV as a monitor on my (Alum) MacBook and I have my wallpaper switching every 1 minute. Today I took my Macbook with me, and set the wallpaper switching to every 5 seconds. When I came home I connected my monitor, opened the lid to the Macbook, turned it ON, and closed the Lid. When my computer started, it would put my Macbook (and TV) to sleep every 5 seconds after loading, and I couldn't do anything.

I finally opened the lid and went to my wallpaper settings and TWO preference panes appeared at once, one on my TV monitor and one my MacBook. One was set to 1 minute, one was set to 5 seconds.

Has anyone ever encountered this? Know of the issue / corrective measures?

Your help is really appreciated!

(PS please do not scold me about wasting resources on my wallpaper settings )
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakura88 View Post

I saw a website store sell the Rear View Monitor, I also want to buy it, but I'm not sure what about the quality is, as I have never buy from there before, any suggestion? thanks

rear view monitor? Never heard of it
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