or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Google fights Flash, adds HTML5 support for YouTube videos in Safari
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Google fights Flash, adds HTML5 support for YouTube videos in Safari

post #1 of 101
Thread Starter 
Google this week added support for HTML5 playback of videos in its own Chrome browser as well as Safari from Apple. The new feature allows users to watch video without the longstanding Internet standard: Adobe Flash.

YouTube's HTML5 support is offered through a beta opt-in program and is currently only available with browsers that support both HTML5 and H.264 video encoding.

This limits the beta to Google's Chrome and Apple's Safari browsers. Microsoft's Internet Explorer is also supported if Google's Chrome Frame is installed.

The HTML5 player fully replaces the Flash player for most videos on the site, but some limitations do exist. Videos with advertisements are currently not supported, and will play instead in the Flash player. Fullscreen playback is also not yet supported.

YouTube refers to the opt-in as "an experiment" and welcomes feedback from the community on its HTML5 integration.

HTML5 allows video to be rendered natively inside the browser, as opposed to Flash which requires a browser plug-in to be installed.

Flash is still not supported on Apple's iPhone. Major sites that use Flash for video on the web, including YouTube, CBS Mobile, and the BBC, now push standard H.264 video to the iPhone directly.

Beginning Thursday, video site Vimeo also will begin to support HTML5 playback. Playback using the HTML 5 standard is available on the same browsers that YouTube supports: Chrome, Safari, and IE with Chrome Frame.

For more, read AppleInsider's Flash Wars series:

Adobe in the History and Future of Flash [Part 1 of 3]
The Many Enemies and Obstacles of Flash [Part 2 of 3]
Adobe Fights for AIR with the Open Screen Project [Part 3 of 3]
post #2 of 101
And Firefox updated to 3.6 today too!!

Yosemite theme, light sky blue, so much better than grey...

Woho! I like the browser wars!!
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #3 of 101
Lets hope this quickly becomes production quality code, fully supported on all YouTube videos. I'm a bit bandwidth limited right at the moment but one file I checked looked really good.


Dave
post #4 of 101
This is a step in the right direction. I'm tired of flash being around. I've disabled flash completely in my browsers so I don't have to deal with it any more. If the site doesn't support regular html sites, than I don't visit them. No more popup ads populating 90% of my screen with a close button the size of an atom. You can do that with modern javascript libraries as well, but I only see it in flash for some reason.

Either way, I feel flash has really gone down hill in the last few years. Really ever since the main javascript libraries have been more stable and feature complete. I hope this sends a clear message to people who want flash work done.

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply
post #5 of 101
Looks like Firefox isn't supported because it's an open source project that can't pay royalties on the patent-encumbered H.264 codec.
post #6 of 101
Does the iPhone's Safari browser do HTML5? I know the iPhone has a YouTube app, so it doesn't matter for this, but for every other site out there that offers video who want to offer it on iPhone, will they be encouraged to offer it in HTML5?
post #7 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

Looks like Firefox isn't supported because it's an open source project that can't pay royalties on the patent-encumbered H.264 codec.

Not entirely true, the new video tags also support OGG which is what Firefox supports. So yes, Firefox supports the new video tags for HTML5, but does not use H.264 as it's codec.

w00master
post #8 of 101
I've un-checked "Enable plug-ins" in my MacBook Pro's Safari preferences. Flash causes the MBP to run very hot and cuts its battery life by about 75% (from nearly 5 hours down to barely over 1 hour.) Plus, I no longer need to see all those banner ads.

And the best thing: no more lengthy time-wasting Flash-damaged splash pages. No more frantic search for the all-important "Skip Intro" button.

I think Flash for Mac OS has gone downhill recently because Adobe wants to strike back at Apple. For releasing Aperture (a Lightroom competitor), for adding photo touch-up features to iPhoto (competing against Photoshop), for heavily promoting QuickTime (a Flash competitor), for promoting web-based applications such as MobileMe (which don't use Flash), and for adding Preview to Mac OS X (an Acrobat competitor.)

So, since Apple and Adobe have orthogonal goals, Adobe must be doing the passive-aggressive routine. "OK, so you don't like Flash? Well, here's a version that we're SURE you won't like."

I'd be surprised if the Apple tablet device supports Flash. And if it doesn't, iPhone OS 4.0 won't either, since I'm expecting the tablet and 4th-gen iPhone to run virtually the same OS.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #9 of 101
This is great. My only question is how do I do a full uninstall of Adobe Flash? LOL.
post #10 of 101
YES!!!!!! Finallly flash is the worst video playback program ever made in the history of the universe. If we can move the web away from it I would be greatful. I think even MS Silverlight is better then Flash. I will switch over as soon as possible, and will be anxiousely waiting for the FF version.

Flash eats away at my macbooks battery. I would have a 90% battery, and after watching a 10 minute youtube clip I would be down to 77%. (I can watch a 40 min video in VLC and be down to about the same battery percentage. Not to metion Google maps street view, which can kill off my macbook in 30 minutes. I don't know if this is as bad on windows, I think its not as bad, my macbook just can't handle flash.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
post #11 of 101
Oh yea, Flash has these "supercookies" which cannot be deleted by normal means.

So another strike against Flash.


http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/...s-think-again/
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #12 of 101
I put YouTube.com in my ClickToFfash whitelist, then opted-in on the YouTube HTML5 beta. I checked the Activity Monitor while playing a news video, and the CPU usage for both cores hovered at about a steady 20%. I did not see any spikes above the aforementioned CPU usage. The CPU is a Core 2 Duo and there is 4GB memory installed, SL is at 10.6.2, and Safari is at 4.04.

I am happy to see some movement toward HTML5 occurring.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

Reply

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

Reply
post #13 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

And Firefox updated to 3.6 today too!!

Yosemite theme, light sky blue, so much better than grey...

Woho! I like the browser wars!!

Mine is grey.
post #14 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by CandTsmac View Post

This is great. My only question is how do I do a full uninstall of Adobe Flash? LOL.

If you use Safari, then Click to Flash is the way to go. Flash is good for other things besides video and ads. More options are better than fewer so deleting Flash simply as a protest against Adobe is the classic case of cutting off nose to spite the face. I wish I could show you the very cool applications we have done in the medical research field. But instead I always point to Google's stock market finance application. Until someone can replicate that in HTML5, 6 or whatever, there is nothing that can replace the more advanced features set of Actionscript 3.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #15 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

If you use Safari, then Click to Flash is the way to go. Flash is good for other things besides video and ads. More options are better than fewer so deleting Flash simply as a protest against Adobe is the classic case of cutting off nose to spite the face. I wish I could show you the very cool applications we have done in the medical research field. But instead I always point to Google's stock market finance application. Until someone can replicate that in HTML5, 6 or whatever, there is nothing that can replace the more advanced features set of Actionscript 3.

I have to disagree, with flash having a good use. Flash is just another attempt at lowest common denominator crap like JAVA. I am not a fan. I like properly written code for the platform. Just my 2 cents
post #16 of 101
OK, countdown till we start seeing comments stating how terrible this is, from posters with a history of 1 to 3 posts on this board. Hmmm.
post #17 of 101
While the saving are clear when streaming video, other features of HTML5 arent as coder and resource friendly. Flash still has plenty of benefits outside of the video streaking arena. Luckily for us, its the most important feature of Flash. I dont think Flash can survive the next 4 years as the dominate player with Google, Apple, MS and open standards all working to bring them down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dak splunder View Post

Does the iPhone's Safari browser do HTML5? I know the iPhone has a YouTube app, so it doesn't matter for this, but for every other site out there that offers video who want to offer it on iPhone, will they be encouraged to offer it in HTML5?

Yes. Not an issue with YouTube, but now that Vimeo is following suit there should be others making the move, too. There are just too many reasons not use it. Besides the resources and battery savings the uptake with smartphones is huge yet I think only Maemo-based devices can play these videos in Flash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

If you use Safari, then Click to Flash is the way to go. Flash is good for other things besides video and ads. More options are better than fewer so deleting Flash simply as a protest against Adobe is the classic case of cutting off nose to spite the face. I wish I could show you the very cool applications we have done in the medical research field. But instead I always point to Google's stock market finance application. Until someone can replicate that in HTML5, 6 or whatever, there is nothing that can replace the more advanced features set of Actionscript 3.

Check out Google Maps in a browser. The only aspect that looks to use Flash is Street View. I dont know how it compares to the Financial graph, but it looks pretty involved to me.
The other aspect that looks to use Flash is Street View. For example, the ability to reroute on the fly by dragging the path on the map to a different road looks pretty complex.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #18 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

...I wish I could show you the very cool applications...


like this one?


http://flash.abunawaf.com/2005/10/whackboss.swf
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #19 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

YES!!!!!! Finallly flash is the worst video playback program ever made in the history of the universe. If we can move the web away from it I would be greatful. I think even MS Silverlight is better then Flash. I will switch over as soon as possible, and will be anxiousely waiting for the FF version.

Flash eats away at my macbooks battery. I would have a 90% battery, and after watching a 10 minute youtube clip I would be down to 77%. (I can watch a 40 min video in VLC and be down to about the same battery percentage. Not to metion Google maps street view, which can kill off my macbook in 30 minutes. I don't know if this is as bad on windows, I think its not as bad, my macbook just can't handle flash.

thanks for the tip, i just disabled plugins and my safari without that flash crap is at least twice as fast as before
post #20 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by CandTsmac View Post

I have to disagree, with flash having a good use. Flash is just another attempt at lowest common denominator crap like JAVA. I am not a fan. I like properly written code for the platform. Just my 2 cents

Thanks for your reply. I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss the finer points in the Flash vs. HTML5 debate but in your case, if you are going to react in such an emotional uniformed illogical manner that would clearly be impossible.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #21 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dak splunder View Post

Does the iPhone's Safari browser do HTML5? I know the iPhone has a YouTube app, so it doesn't matter for this, but for every other site out there that offers video who want to offer it on iPhone, will they be encouraged to offer it in HTML5?

The MLB.com At Bat app has been using HTML5 to stream video since last summer.
post #22 of 101
post #23 of 101
Taking all bets on how long before Mozilla supports H.264 in Firefox. I’m guessing it will happen sometime in 2010. Lets go with August/September.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley View Post

The MLB.com At Bat app has been using HTML5 to stream video since last summer.

The http://iphone.akamai.com/ site has a lot of great demos. (Note: the demos only works on the iPhone, even when using the iPhone User Agent in Mac OS X Safari)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #24 of 101
Hoorah!! Love it..

Was it just me or was the link to opt in kind of hidden?? I only found it through the link in this article..
post #25 of 101
Has anyone gotten this to work with the beta Chrome? I still get flash adds, not HTML5. Works fine in Safari though,.
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
post #26 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Has anyone gotten this to work with the beta Chrome? I still get flash adds, not HTML5. Works fine in Safari though,.

When you right click on the page does it say About Chrome Frame?


edit: Chrome Frame will not always be used in IE by default. Here is a script to always use Chrome Frame instead of IE’s Trident.

http://www.askvg.com/wp-content/uplo...-Open-URLs.zip Or you can edit the Registry manually…

1) Access

Registry Editor
2) Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\Software\\Google\\ChromeFrame
3) Under this key, create a new key OptInUrls. Now create a new String value and set its name to *
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #27 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Oh yea, Flash has these "supercookies" which cannot be deleted by normal means.

So another strike against Flash.


http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/...s-think-again/


They are deletable by normal means, you just have to go to both of these locations:

~/Library/Preferences/Macromedia/Flash Player/#SharedObjects
~/Library/Preferences/Macromedia/Flash Player/macromedia.com/support/flashplayer/sys/

The files (or in the case of the first one there will be another folder) are the flash cookies. Put them in your recycle bin and empty it. Thats all you need to do.

More informations: http://osxdaily.com/2009/11/13/delete-flash-cookies/

EDIT: For those new to the Mac, ~ stands for your Home folder
post #28 of 101
Adobe couldn't be happy about this.
post #29 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

When you right click on the page does it say About Chrome Frame?

edit: Chrome Frame will not always be used in IE by default. Here is a script to always use Chrome Frame instead of IEs Trident.

*

http://www.askvg.com/wp-content/uplo...-Open-URLs.zip Or you can edit the Registry manually

1) Access

Registry Editor
2) Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\Software\\Google\\ChromeFrame
3) Under this key, create a new key OptInUrls. Now create a new String value and set its name to *

I'm talking about Chrome in OS X, not Windows.
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
post #30 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I'm talking about Chrome in OS X, not Windows.

My bad, I figured it was a Chrome Frame issue since Ive been hearing about that as an issue with this for 2 days now.

When you go to http://www.youtube.com/html5 does it say join or leave the HTML5 Beta?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #31 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Thanks for your reply. I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss the finer points in the Flash vs. HTML5 debate but in your case, if you are going to react in such an emotional uniformed illogical manner that would clearly be impossible.

This is an Apple forum, so reacting in an emotional uniformed illogical manner is par for the course. ZOMG!!! M$ Windoze, Apple is right about everything!!! Thank you sir may I have another!! We've always been at war with East Asia!
post #32 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

If you use Safari, then Click to Flash is the way to go. Flash is good for other things besides video and ads. More options are better than fewer so deleting Flash simply as a protest against Adobe is the classic case of cutting off nose to spite the face. I wish I could show you the very cool applications we have done in the medical research field. But instead I always point to Google's stock market finance application. Until someone can replicate that in HTML5, 6 or whatever, there is nothing that can replace the more advanced features set of Actionscript 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Thanks for your reply. I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss the finer points in the Flash vs. HTML5 debate but in your case, if you are going to react in such an emotional uniformed illogical manner that would clearly be impossible.

Dude, relax. How can you say that to me, I was just stating an opinion. WOW.
post #33 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My bad, I figured it was a Chrome Frame issue since I’ve been hearing about that as an issue with this for 2 days now.

When you go to http://www.youtube.com/html5 does it say join or leave the HTML5 Beta?

I get Flash with either setting oddly enough. With firefox you get a message that there is no codec support, but with the OS X beta for Google Chrome, you just get the same old flash.
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
post #34 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I get Flash with either setting oddly enough. With firefox you get a message that there is no codec support, but with the OS X beta for Google Chrome, you just get the same old flash.

It's dependent on the video. It's not spread across every page yet so most videos still come up with Flash.

Also it depends on the video uploaded. Video format being uploaded will affect usage as well as the videos that do work are only H.264 videos, anything else isn't supported.
post #35 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

It's dependent on the video. It's not spread across every page yet so most videos still come up with Flash.

Also it depends on the video uploaded. Video format being uploaded will affect usage as well as the videos that do work are only H.264 videos, anything else isn't supported.

No, I verified the video was already working with HTML5 via Safari.
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
post #36 of 101
Apparently the update function on the build of Chrome I had wasn't working. I manually went out and looked for a recent update and it works fine.
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
post #37 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

YES!!!!!! Finallly flash is the worst video playback program ever made in the history of the universe. If we can move the web away from it I would be greatful. I think even MS Silverlight is better then Flash. I will switch over as soon as possible, and will be anxiousely waiting for the FF version.

Flash eats away at my macbooks battery. I would have a 90% battery, and after watching a 10 minute youtube clip I would be down to 77%. (I can watch a 40 min video in VLC and be down to about the same battery percentage. Not to metion Google maps street view, which can kill off my macbook in 30 minutes. I don't know if this is as bad on windows, I think its not as bad, my macbook just can't handle flash.


Adobe is a piece of work, for years they've neglected properly optimizing Flash to run on Macs. I say good ridance, native browser support in HTML5 is just what the doctor ordered, no more buggy, laggy, jittery, poorly coded junkware.
post #38 of 101
Vimeo is also releasing the beta of its HTML5 player. I like Vimeo much better than YouTube. The quality of the content as well as the quality of the video is far better. Full screen Youtube video looks like shite. Full screen Vimeo is far superior.

Try our new HTML5 player!
post #39 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

(snip) ...but instead I always point to Google's stock market finance application. Until someone can replicate that in HTML5, 6 or whatever, there is nothing that can replace the more advanced features set of Actionscript 3.

That's not a bad app, and if well written Flash apps can be very clever - but I just pushed some graphs around in that Google app and my poor Air's processor usage shot up to 50%. I mean, come on. There's no need for that.

NME Radio's music player totally crashes my Air after about 20 minutes of playback; memory usage suddenly goes through the roof and the machine becomes all but unusable.

I have no inherent dislike of Flash per-se, but I'm just not going to use a product that is such a dirty resource hog. I use ClickToFlash and only enable individual Flash items when absolutely necessary.
post #40 of 101
Its really the other way around Firefox doesn't support h.264 video tags. They need to get with the program or get left behind.

Firefox lost this battle before it was even begun. H.264 is so far ahead of the game its futile to fight against it.

I agree we don't want technology dominated by a bunch of proprietary software that all works in the direct service of corporations. At the same time I don't believe the litmus test of all software should be its open source cred. In the end the best software should win.

Simply because software is patented and royalties have to be paid for its use does not automatically make it bad. H.264 isn't owned by anyone company. Its the creation of collaborators who are actively working to make it the best most flexible codec.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

Looks like Firefox isn't supported because it's an open source project that can't pay royalties on the patent-encumbered H.264 codec.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Google fights Flash, adds HTML5 support for YouTube videos in Safari