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Verizon, AT&T in 11th hour talks for CDMA, GSM Apple tablets - report - Page 2

post #41 of 99
1/21/10 at 9:29pm
Not to be an apologist for ATT, but you watch... once iPhone users get on Verizon, they'll be bitching about the service there as well. Though it may still be better, the sad truth is all the carriers suck.

Also - by the time many of the current iPhone users having trouble with call drops can switch to Verizon, ATT may have improved the network sufficiently to give as good or even better service. I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the "greener side".
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #42 of 99
1/21/10 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliphord View Post

The reporter's source is either confused or flat wrong. I say "confused," if he's getting the tablet and iPhone mixed up. It's one thing to release a cell phone for the CDMA network.

It's quite another thing to release 2 separate tablet computers. Why would I, the consumer, spend $600 - $999 for a tablet that prevents me from switching networks in the future? A tablet isn't meant to be somewhat "disposable" (replaceable?) like a phone.

Essentially, you'll have to choose between AT&T and Verizon at the time of purchase. Right now that seems like an easy decision, but what if ATT offers superior (or cheaper) service in a year to stay competitive?

Don't lots of people (not me) lock themselves into two-year phone contracts which cost a whole lot more? Don't you have to choose a wireless carrier with any device you buy, i.e., phone or netbook? It makes sense for Apple to design one unit to work with both kinds of network. Would that be prohibitively expensive?
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post #43 of 99
1/21/10 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

...On top of that, I'll bet Apple is probably not looking to sell more than a couple of million of these in the first year (supply lock-ins), a feat they can quite easily achieve with just ATT...


Exactly,

Apple wants to sell quantity because they are a hardware company. Introducing a 3G enabled iTablet on top of iPhone is just out of too many people's reach, your talking about doubling their already high cell phone bills per month. I only know one person who uses 3G on their laptop and that's because it's used for business, so it's a write off.

The MacBook just quietly got a update...so this new device is not going to replace it.

I highly suspect the iPod Touch will be enlarged and come in colors. The App Store will be enlarged to have content from publishers and other things. Steve said the iPod Touch was a gaming device and he hates his devices being just that.

I also think iLife will have some sort of presence on the new iPod Touch, working with the one on the Mac. Of course which begs the question if iLife is now going to jump over to Windows or not.
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #44 of 99
1/21/10 at 11:26pm
My guess is that they will offer one model that works on both networks. I just hope they don't make the data plan mandatory.
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post #45 of 99
1/21/10 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Yeah, I really doubt the 3G modem will be included at all. Because it's such a data hog, plans would have to be prohibitively expensive for the carriers to seemingly justify the expense of the device on their network. But somehow Europe's providers can manage in Europe to cover the continent for $20 a month, plus give you landline internet. I call shenanigans on the telcos, but the FCC got its kness cut, so I guess the market is unregulated? Sounds like a plan to start ripping people off...

Yeah, and now I can't wait for those telcos to buy the politicians necessary to finish the job on the FCC and give us a consumers paradise at the teets of our corporate overlords. Thanks Supreme Court.
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post #46 of 99
1/22/10 at 1:00am
Why wouldn't sprint be able to get the islate or the iphone?
It seems like everyone has forgot about this company.

They are the first to have full blow 4G internet in the national from any carrier. Guess what that means....unlimited mobile internet. I don't care what company you talk about, 3G internet service has a 5 GB cap. How is someone going to "stream music from a itunes cloud" or "cruise the internet all the time" with this tablet that has a 5GB a month cap. And I bet the capabilities of this tablet will allow heavy users to flirt very close to the cap. A 4G system, a system sprint has,is UNLIMITED USAGE. And it is 12 times faster than any 3G network out there. Verizon is 2 years away from full blow 4G, at&t isn't even the picture, and Sprint is every where. In my home town in the central valley in California we are getting 4G in 5 months. Meanwhile, lots of other places already have it.

On that note, 4G would be able to support the iphone and the islate. No problem. And why wouldn't Sprint get it. We already have everything in place for ebooks because the amazon Kindle goes through sprint already. Everything is in place and we already know what we are doing. We just need a unit that people want like the islate.

Sprint should get the iphone also. We don't have our exclusivity with the Palm Pre anymore which was our "flagship" vs the iphone as of February because verizon is getting in then. I don't get why people think Steve Job's wants to work with verizon. He is a man of grudges and his business history can prove that. They reject him already, he will get them back. OH WOW, verizon has all this great coverage and blah blah blah. Sprint has great coverage also and when Sprint doesn't have coverage, it roams for FREE on VERIZON towers. So we both have each others coverage under one umbrella which gives the service area a HUGE amount of cell coverage.

Also verizon is to anal retentive for an apple product. They have to many rules and want to control to much of what is going on. For christ sake, Verizon used to tell phone makers to block bluetooth on handsets and they were charging a small fee monthly if you wanted to have bluetooth. You think a company who nickel and dimes is going to let a revenue monster like itunes roam freely with verizon not getting a cut? NO WAY. And apple wont budge on it either. I guess we will see what happens.
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post #47 of 99
1/22/10 at 1:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marielox View Post

Why wouldn't sprint be able to get the islate or the iphone?
It seems like everyone has forgot about this company.

We already have everything in place for ebooks because the amazon Kindle goes through sprint already. Everything is in place and we already know what we are doing. We just need a unit that people want like the islate.

With all the "we" in your post, I gather that you work for Sprint?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you might just declare it up front..

Personally, I'd love to see Sprint get iPhone since I'm currently with them, but I'm not holding my breath.
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post #48 of 99
1/22/10 at 1:24am
Good moment for AT&T to admit who hasn't approved Google Voice in App store.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #49 of 99
1/22/10 at 1:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Very good points.

A ten inch iPhone replacing something you can slip in your pocket - making anyone who used it in public look like dork - you call that a 'good point', ?

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post #50 of 99
1/22/10 at 1:36am
1.
It sounded to me like Verizon wanted both a 3G and a WiFi lock in. Cellular lock ins are bad enough but they can shove the tablet up a dark place if they think locking WiFi will be acceptable.

2.
Related to the above I really really do not want a carrier locked device. Rather I want a GSM device that allows instant carrier switches via a sim card swap. A carrier locked device is almost worthless outside of the country you purchased it in. If you travel you need a device that is a snap to change carriers with, even for a few weeks at a time.

3.
Not to get in a dung flinging match but Verizon sucks bad. They are just about the worst when it comes to lock things down or other wise screwing up perfectly good hardware. Frankly this rumor has me wondering if this rumor is even valid because I can't see Verizon agreeing to Apples terms.

4.
Sprint has already been mentioned but they really don't seem to have much of a commercial presence. However I'd go for those guys before Verizon.

5.
Building two models seems to be rather stupid. If the cell radio can't switch between standards then it should be rethought or delayed. CDMA is dying but that isn't the real issue. The real issue is that it is another way to get locked in. Would anybody here really buy a CDMA tied device knowing that it will be outdated shortly? This is a serious issue as ideally the tablet would last a lot longer than a cell phone. Three years down the road you might want to switch carriers. Or simply sell the device, at which point a CDMA device could look antiquated.


In any event the more rumors that pop up the more that I smell a rat. I have this fear that Apple is going to go way overboard here with their cellular contracts. I hope I don't have to call for a consummer revolt and boycott. It is not. The price that bothers me but rather the Mack of freedom implied with the cellular arraingements.

JUST SAY NO TO CARRIER LOCKED TABLETS!

Dave
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post #51 of 99
1/22/10 at 3:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyT View Post

Verizon covers 85% of the USA with 3G towers.
AT&T covers 17% of the country.
(Yes... 5 *TIMES* difference.)

Gee... I wonder if Apple will sell more Verizon-Tablets... or AT&T-Tablets.

Ok....
But what percentage of the POPULATION does AT&T cover?
Do you rally think Apple product target cities or hickville?
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post #52 of 99
1/22/10 at 4:07am
"...you'll get a line-item for that data service on your cell bill."

Oh no I won't. I'll never sign up for that.

On Verizon, if you even accidentally hit a button to access the internet, even for a split second, they charge you for a megabyte (or some minimum amount, don't recall exactly). This company will never get my money again.
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post #53 of 99
1/22/10 at 4:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

ATT's 3G covers 97% of the population....who cares if they don't cover some remote mountain out west.

With ATT, you get access to over 20,000 free wifi hotspots, faster 3G, and a plan to make it even faster before 4G takes root.

oh, hey luke wilson, thanks for stopping by.

97% of population is covered by at&t's voice network. not 3G. probably not even EDGE. listen closely to at&t's own ads; they never make this claim.

how are the hotspots free? you have to pay for cell phone service or have a residential internet account with at&t to get access. that's not free, you are saving at&t money by doing that because you connect to their wifi access point instead of their expensive 3G tower.
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post #54 of 99
1/22/10 at 4:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

By area, not by population. Right?

So who cares if Verizon is covering the heck out of Death Valley?

Have your car breakdown in Death Valley and you will
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post #55 of 99
1/22/10 at 5:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense View Post

3G to tablet ... that's awesome ... yet, wouldn't that overload the networks more ?

Yes, which is bad news for us Verizon Wireless users who enjoyed a relatively uncongested network for this long.


Honestly whatever deal Verizon negotiates with Apple, if they don't utilize a tiered pricing scheme ($$$ per X number of bytes per mo) their network is going to get crippled just like AT&T. You give people unlimited bandwith/download quotas and they'll freeload all day.
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post #56 of 99
1/22/10 at 5:15am
And why would you think that Verizon's WiFi hotspots would work??

They do not work right now for Mac OS X - it's windoze-only.
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post #57 of 99
1/22/10 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

ATT's 3G covers 97% of the population....who cares if they don't cover some remote mountain out west.

With ATT, you get access to over 20,000 free wifi hotspots, faster 3G, and a plan to make it even faster before 4G takes root.


This is an uninformed statement. I live in New York, south of Buffalo. Far from a mountain out west. I had to drop my AT&T plan and sell my iPhone because of poor coverage in my area. Not just 3G, but a signal all together. 3G never existed here, only Edge when I was lucky.

Thankfully Verizon has decent phones now. My Droid Eris is a good substitute phone until the iPhone finally comes to Verizon. The day that happens, AT&T is going to hurt quite a bit on the smartphone front.
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post #58 of 99
1/22/10 at 5:33am
Maybe it'll tether with an iPhone.
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post #59 of 99
1/22/10 at 5:43am
I was getting the impression that it sits on the living room table like a magazine and is shared by the family. If so, why does it need 3G? Surely most families who would buy such a thing would have a WLAN in their house. It is just to compete with Kindle?
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post #60 of 99
1/22/10 at 5:45am
If Apple releases a tablet that requires me to sign up with a data plan, then I have no interest in the device. Apple should make it wi-fi only and tell people that if they want access on the go, they should get a mi-fi. Thats what I plan to do if Apple doesn't screw it up.
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post #61 of 99
1/22/10 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

My guess is that they will offer one model that works on both networks. I just hope they don't make the data plan mandatory.

I agree. With anything approaching 10", who is going to use this on the go? I am going to use it at home, at work, or places where I have Wifi.

I won't pay another $40-$60/month to have 3G access for another device. It's just not worth it - that's what I have my iPhone for.
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post #62 of 99
1/22/10 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I also think iLife will have some sort of presence on the new iPod Touch, working with the one on the Mac. Of course which begs the question if iLife is now going to jump over to Windows or not.

And destroy one of the top reasons switchers have to buy a Mac?

No way.

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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post #63 of 99
1/22/10 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

Crazy... CDMA was killed off here many years ago, I find it staggering that it even becomes an issue. It almost seems like like commercial suicide that they'll have to make a tablet/iphone just to suit the few networks that actually use CDMA tech still.

Because just as with the iPhone, the US market will probably be the biggest for the iSlate.
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post #64 of 99
1/22/10 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocknerd View Post

If Apple releases a tablet that requires me to sign up with a data plan, then I have no interest in the device. Apple should make it wi-fi only and tell people that if they want access on the go, they should get a mi-fi. Thats what I plan to do if Apple doesn't screw it up.

If it can do phone calls, I'll just take the SIM out of my iPhone and use that. If not, then yes, I also would not be willing to buy a second subscription. I have enough outgoings each month as-is.
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post #65 of 99
1/22/10 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

This can't be good.

Things that are free tend not to stay that way, just long enough to corner the market.

And people are not going to go for a second cell phone bill in addition to their iPhone.

So I suspect this is a bigger iPhone and a much bigger iPod Touch/iSlate.



Good points, I pay too much for my iPhone service, I am definitely not about to add another $30 or $40 for service to a tablet that doesn't quite exist yet. Don't get me wrong though, I am curious to see said tablet flex it's muscles, but if it's tied to carrier service like the iPhone... deal breaker \
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post #66 of 99
1/22/10 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus View Post

Ok....
But what percentage of the POPULATION does AT&T cover?
Do you rally think Apple product target cities or hickville?

Wow. Apple targets anyone that will buy their products. AT$T is keeping them from doing that with their crappy network. Who cares if you have AT$T coverage if it doesn't work. Sure you can cover 97% of the population but who cares when you drop calls everyday. I have 5 Bars and 3G sitting in my house but it still is useless and I live outside Washington DC, far from hickville.
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post #67 of 99
1/22/10 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckerz View Post

You give people unlimited bandwith/download quotas and they'll freeload all day.

Freeload? Sorry I want to use my service as it is described, "unlimited". Well if my service actually worked.
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post #68 of 99
1/22/10 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

...somehow Europe's providers can manage in Europe to cover the continent for $20 a month, plus give you landline internet. I call shenanigans on the telcos...

To be fair, Europe settled on the GSM standard long ago, while the United States has struggled with competing and incompatible RF standards for decades.

Additionally, the EU has 60% greater population (500M) than the US, but in less than half the surface area (1.7M vs. 3.8M square miles). Less infrastructure is needed to cover a smaller area.

And while you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much cellular coverage, I don't see the benefit to Verizon customers of covering 95% of Kansas with 3G unless cows are now using cellphones. ("Got milk? There's an app for that.")
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post #69 of 99
1/22/10 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Plenty of United States citizens never leave these shores !

Plenty of United States citizens also commute only between their job and their house in the suburbs, yet they still drive a 4x4 Hummer with skid plates and a chrome brush guard. You know...just in case.
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post #70 of 99
1/22/10 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliphord View Post

Why would I, the consumer, spend $600 - $999 for a tablet that prevents me from switching networks in the future? A tablet isn't meant to be somewhat "disposable" (replaceable?) like a phone.

You already spend $600-$900 on your iPhone, except that in the US you cannot actually 'buy' it, it is more like a leasing contract.
Just because you lease a $50000 car, does not make it disposable.
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post #71 of 99
1/22/10 at 8:34am
I personally don't like the prospective pattern of Apple tying their devices to a specific carrier if it means exclusion for customers on other networks. Taking away choice for such desirable devices isn't palatable to loyal Apple customers, in my opinion.\
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post #72 of 99
1/22/10 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocknerd View Post

If Apple releases a tablet that requires me to sign up with a data plan, then I have no interest in the device. Apple should make it wi-fi only and tell people that if they want access on the go, they should get a mi-fi. Thats what I plan to do if Apple doesn't screw it up.

No, they shouldnt make it wi-fi only. There are many that want 3G access on this device or theyre not likely to get it. I want there to be an option for WiFi data access and an option for 3G+WiFi data access.
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post #73 of 99
1/22/10 at 9:35am
The cellular modem should be a user replaceable module so carriers and technology can be changed/upgraded at will!
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post #74 of 99
1/22/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

The cellular modem should be a user replaceable module so carriers and technology can be changed/upgraded at will!

I hope they do that, too, like the way the old AirPort cards were set within the battery bay of old PowerBooks and iBooks.

I wonder if theyll just go the Kindle route and have some standard and free 3G coverage with the same of the device, but allow it to only access the Apple Publication Store unless you want to pay for data through the carrier. That would likely mean only one carrier, though.
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post #75 of 99
1/22/10 at 10:29am
Verizon is trying to keep it's stock from being pummeled.

This rumor is so credible - because we all know - Apple makes dozens of versions of it's products (apart from color and memory) to put in one single feature that's different. Because if there's nothing Apple likes to do more - is have piles of redundant products like they did in the early 90s.

OR perhaps Verizon is discovering that only 20 thousand Droid users doesn't bode well for their quarterly reports and are desperate to get some action on the stock market before they get the snot beaten out of them again.
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post #76 of 99
1/22/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

How soon would one guess if/when the iPhone is available to Verizon, will Verizon offer tethering? \

Instantly, most likely, in order to drive the competition. It's a perfect adavantage just handed to them.
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post #77 of 99
1/22/10 at 11:03am
How about Apple creates a super secret hybrid dual chip that connects to both CDMA and GSM simultaneously and fuels your data connection based on signal strength/speed. Best of both Att and Vrz at the same time...$40/mon directly to Apple, no contract.

Tablet only of course.
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post #78 of 99
1/22/10 at 1:25pm
TRUE 4G is not available from ANY carrier in the US.
Sprint is saying 4G, but it's more like 3.5G.
The infrastructure is not even here yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marielox View Post

Why wouldn't sprint be able to get the islate or the iphone?
It seems like everyone has forgot about this company.

They are the first to have full blow 4G internet in the national from any carrier. Guess what that means....unlimited mobile internet. I don't care what company you talk about, 3G internet service has a 5 GB cap. How is someone going to "stream music from a itunes cloud" or "cruise the internet all the time" with this tablet that has a 5GB a month cap. And I bet the capabilities of this tablet will allow heavy users to flirt very close to the cap. A 4G system, a system sprint has,is UNLIMITED USAGE. And it is 12 times faster than any 3G network out there. Verizon is 2 years away from full blow 4G, at&t isn't even the picture, and Sprint is every where. In my home town in the central valley in California we are getting 4G in 5 months. Meanwhile, lots of other places already have it.

On that note, 4G would be able to support the iphone and the islate. No problem. And why wouldn't Sprint get it. We already have everything in place for ebooks because the amazon Kindle goes through sprint already. Everything is in place and we already know what we are doing. We just need a unit that people want like the islate.

Sprint should get the iphone also. We don't have our exclusivity with the Palm Pre anymore which was our "flagship" vs the iphone as of February because verizon is getting in then. I don't get why people think Steve Job's wants to work with verizon. He is a man of grudges and his business history can prove that. They reject him already, he will get them back. OH WOW, verizon has all this great coverage and blah blah blah. Sprint has great coverage also and when Sprint doesn't have coverage, it roams for FREE on VERIZON towers. So we both have each others coverage under one umbrella which gives the service area a HUGE amount of cell coverage.

Also verizon is to anal retentive for an apple product. They have to many rules and want to control to much of what is going on. For christ sake, Verizon used to tell phone makers to block bluetooth on handsets and they were charging a small fee monthly if you wanted to have bluetooth. You think a company who nickel and dimes is going to let a revenue monster like itunes roam freely with verizon not getting a cut? NO WAY. And apple wont budge on it either. I guess we will see what happens.
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post #79 of 99
1/22/10 at 2:44pm
Re your response, i.e.,
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2000 View Post

To be fair, Europe settled on the GSM standard long ago, while the United States has struggled with competing and incompatible RF standards for decades.

Additionally, the EU has 60% greater population (500M) than the US, but in less than half the surface area (1.7M vs. 3.8M square miles). Less infrastructure is needed to cover a smaller area.

And while you can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much cellular coverage, I don't see the benefit to Verizon customers of covering 95% of Kansas with 3G unless cows are now using cellphones. ("Got milk? There's an app for that.")

to :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartfat
...somehow Europe's providers can manage in Europe to cover the continent for $20 a month, plus give you landline internet. I call shenanigans on the telcos...

Bartfat lied. There is no such plan. In fact, it is significantly more expensive when considering the roaming charges traveling from country to country
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post #80 of 99
1/22/10 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

How about Apple creates a super secret hybrid dual chip that connects to both CDMA and GSM simultaneously and fuels your data connection based on signal strength/speed. Best of both Att and Vrz at the same time...$40/mon directly to Apple, no contract.

Tablet only of course.

Apple would end up in court quicker than you can say Qualcomm. They own the patents on CDMA, and are very picky who they license it towhich is why most of the world uses GSM. Qualcomm supposedly has a combination GSM/CDMA chipset in the works but it's vaporware at this point.

I personally don't see Apple using anything from Verizon until 4G has supplanted most of the world. Apple likes to keep their supply chains very simple. There's only 1 version of each product they make, sold all around the world. There's no iMac for Japan, iPhone 3G for India, iPhone 3GS for New Zealandthey're all the same all around the world. Even the iPhone 3G for China is the same; they just disabled the WiFi via a software firmware update.

If they made a tablet that used CDMA they would need 2 versions, one for the US and the rest of the world. And contrary to what was said earlier, the US is actually less than 50% of Apple's iPhone sales. So they're not going to give up on the portion of the world that buys 51% of their products.

I also agree with others in that the data contract won't be included. If this device is supposed to be a "media" device, there is NO WAY IN HELL any cell company is going to let a device that can browse the full Web for what will amount to a couple bucks a month. Most analysts have surmized Amazon pays Sprint about $2 per subscriber per month, while AT&T and Verizon charge $30/month for a data plan on top of a $30/month voice plan. I doubt either network would give up the gravy train of $30/month subscribers for a couple dollars from Apple, when Apple's device will consumer way more bandwidth and tie up a lot more cellular channels to the tower, than a cell phone.
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  • Verizon, AT&T in 11th hour talks for CDMA, GSM Apple tablets - report
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