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Verizon, AT&T in 11th hour talks for CDMA, GSM Apple tablets - report - Page 3

post #81 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

I also agree with others in that the data contract won't be included.

I tend to think the tablet device will be wifi only, disappointing a lot of folks who want to use it on cellular networks.
post #82 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

I tend to think the tablet device will be wifi only, disappointing a lot of folks who want to use it on cellular networks.

If it is, then my interest in what this device could mean to me nearly reaches zero. I see this device type only working if Apple has address HW, SW and services to meet a plethora of needs well right out of the gate. I think that means there needs to be a WiFi and a 3G+WiFi version

Im hoping they follow the Kindle and Nook and include the 3G card with the device for content purchasing. The difference being that you can also subscribe to 3G data if want more portable than what WiFI offers for many.
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post #83 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If it is, then my interest in what this device could mean to me nearly reaches zero. I see this device type only working if Apple has address HW, SW and services to meet a plethora of needs well right out of the gate. I think that means there needs to be a WiFi and a 3G+WiFi version

Im hoping they follow the Kindle and Nook and include the 3G card with the device for content purchasing. The difference being that you can also subscribe to 3G data if want more portable than what WiFI offers for many.

Free, ubiquitous connection for iTunes Store purchases would be a killer app, for sure.

Not sure if that's feasible, though-- Kindle and Nook are largely about texts and low res graphics, so the bandwidth consumed is modest. iTS purchases might well involve video, or some kind of rich media periodical that comes in at a fairly hefty file size, so that might be a lot to ask of "free" cell access (I assume Amazon and Barnes & Nobel have negotiated rates for cell access based on fairly low-key data usage per customer).

I guess Apple could offer free access to songs, podcasts, apps and whatever text based publications they've signed up and not video or multi-media files, but that level of complexity doesn't sound like Apple.
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post #84 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im hoping they follow the Kindle and Nook and include the 3G card with the device for content purchasing. The difference being that you can also subscribe to 3G data if want more portable than what WiFI offers for many.

That might work if the cellular provider gets a cut of the sale of the content. But there are other problems...

I think this tablet is going to be all about movies, music, TV, magazines with motion content and things we haven't even thought of yet. All that is going to require a lot of bandwidth. I think wifi is the only way to accomplish it. Cellular networks are already on the brink of collapse just from smart phones. Imagine adding millions of tablets, trying to stream and purchase full screen video on those networks. It's not likely to work well.
post #85 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Free, ubiquitous connection for iTunes Store purchases would be a killer app, for sure.

Not sure if that's feasible, though-- Kindle and Nook are largely about texts and low res graphics, so the bandwidth consumed is modest. iTS purchases might well involve video, or some kind of rich media periodical that comes in at a fairly hefty file size, so that might be a lot to ask of "free" cell access (I assume Amazon and Barnes & Nobel have negotiated rates for cell access based on fairly low-key data usage per customer).

I guess Apple could offer free access to songs, podcasts, apps and whatever text based publications they've signed up and not video or multi-media files, but that level of complexity doesn't sound like Apple.

How did Apple ink the deals to get App Store and iTunes Store app portals to work over AT&Ts mobile network? That wasnt included as part of the users contract so I assume that Apple is paying the carrier a small fee to cover their expenses. The number of app types and app sizes could also be paid, and could bring some additional profit to the carrier and Apple by simply having this convenient option available. I never bought iTS audio until that feature was added to the iPhone. I think the setup is now too convenient to pass up. I often hear a song, record with Shazam, (even if I know it) click the link to buy.

Imagine this Killer Publisher Store is built into the device, the carrier gets 'profit sharing' from Apple for each item bought from the Store so they are getting paid, too. Maybe the rest of the iTS store would be locked out at first to focus the device a bit. Youre right that these files would be larger than the ones on the KIndle and Nook, but how much does Apple really have to pay fore KB to make this work for both parties? The carriers know they get some basic data usage fees with the option for looking in users into a contract and full 3G access for $45-60/month. I dont see that as a bad plan for a carrier, and see that as a great plan for Apple to make the Canvas very useful device for many kinds of people.

(Took Ambien instead of Tylenol by accident tonight so Im barely holding on to my thoughts \)
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post #86 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

That might work if the cellular provider gets a cut of the sale of the content. But there are other problems...

I think this tablet is going to be all about movies, music, TV, magazines with motion content and things we haven't even thought of yet. All that is going to require a lot of bandwidth. I think wifi is the only way to accomplish it. Cellular networks are already on the brink of collapse just from smart phones. Imagine adding millions of tablets, trying to stream and purchase full screen video on those networks. It's not likely to work well.

Not everyone will want to pay for 3G for data. The ones that do will be paying for than $30 like they do know for a 3.5 display. I think $45-60 month may happen, weakening the number of people who will pay for the additional service and just prefer WiFi for everything, expect for the free publication subscriptions through 3G.
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post #87 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How did Apple ink the deals to get App Store and iTunes Store app portals to work over AT&Ts mobile network? That wasnt included as part of the users contract so I assume that Apple is paying the carrier a small fee to cover their expenses. The number of app types and app sizes could also be paid, and could bring some additional profit to the carrier and Apple by simply having this convenient option available. I never bought iTS audio until that feature was added to the iPhone. I think the setup is now too convenient to pass up. I often hear a song, record with Shazam, (even if I know it) click the link to buy.

Yeah, but every current user of iTS merchandise over AT&T's networks is paying that $30/month data fee. The Kindle model means you don't have to have anything to do with AT&T, the connection is just there. Given that both AT&T and Verizon are rumbling about tiered pricing for big data users, it seems like a tough sell to get AT&T to open up the data flood gates to non-subscribers, unless Apple is paying them upwards of that $30. Per month. Per device. Which doesn't seem like a great way to make money on the thing.

Quote:
Imagine this Killer Publisher Store is built into the device, the carrier gets 'profit sharing' from Apple for each item bought from the Store so they are getting paid, too. Maybe the rest of the iTS store would be locked out at first to focus the device a bit. Youre right that these files would be larger than the ones on the KIndle and Nook, but how much does Apple really have to pay fore KB to make this work for both parties? The carriers know they get some basic data usage fees with the option for looking in users into a contract and full 3G access for $45-60/month. I dont see that as a bad plan for a carrier, and see that as a great plan for Apple to make the Canvas very useful device for many kinds of people.

(Took Ambien instead of Tylenol by accident tonight so Im barely holding on to my thoughts \)

I can see that such a feature would be a great selling point, but I'm not seeing how the math works unless Canvas requires a cell contract. Although giving the cell carrier a cut of the proceeds on each item downloaded...... maybe that would work? I have no idea .
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post #88 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yeah, but every current user of iTS merchandise over AT&T's networks is paying that $30/month data fee. The Kindle model means you don't have to have anything to do with AT&T, the connection is just there. Given that both AT&T and Verizon are rumbling about tiered pricing for big data users, it seems like a tough sell to get AT&T to open up the data flood gates to non-subscribers, unless Apple is paying them upwards of that $30. Per month. Per device. Which doesn't seem like a great way to make money on the thing.

I can see that such a feature would be a great selling point, but I'm not seeing how the math works unless Canvas requires a cell contract. Although giving the cell carrier a cut of the proceeds on each item downloaded...... maybe that would work? I have no idea .

1) Were paying $30/month for data on a smartphone while also paying for the phone service, at a minimum. I dont think well see an unfettered data plan for consumers for that price. Id guess at least $45 a month.

2) Yes, we use our data plans to access the iTS and App Store, but that is from our end. I cant see AT&T agreeing to allowing TV Shows and Movies and Music being DLed through their network without them getting a cut. If they do and if that cut is sufficient then offering a 3G data card in the tablet with an option data plan and instant access to iTS and App Store would be possible if they are being paid well enough for it. It might also encourage some to get the full internet access, which is potential bonus for the carrier. Lots of ifs here sense we dont know how Apple finally got those stores on the iPhone.

3) It doesnt have to be the entire store for the free 3G. It could just be the publications, like with the Kindle and Nook. If AT&T okay this for those devices then I dont think its out of Apples reach to get AT&T to okay it for their publishers despite the likelihood of the file sizes being larger than the typical eBook. There is also a chance that another carrier agreed to it. T-Mobile and Verizon have been left out of this so far.

Im just throwing out ideas of ways they could add 3G while making it cost effective. I just cant imagine not having 3G in this device yet others cant imagine having it, so so medium ground may have to be found. Those are my Ambienized results. Why cant I sleep?
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post #89 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Re your response, i.e.,

to :

Bartfat lied. There is no such plan. In fact, it is significantly more expensive when considering the roaming charges traveling from country to country

have you actually seen some of the European roaming charges? They are actually quite cheap now for roaming
post #90 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Im hoping they follow the Kindle and Nook and include the 3G card with the device for content purchasing. The difference being that you can also subscribe to 3G data if want more portable than what WiFI offers for many.

I think that's too messy for too many different markets. Having one SIM card for the world would be a fantasy for the telco, consumers and Apple but I still think despite a so-called borderless world, the telcos will continue to distinguish stuff heavily once data leaves their shores.

Not only that but in my local market, people are using to making a separate decision between device (ie mobile phone) and the telco provider, so the idea of a bundled SIM would be a nice option (as you say with the idea of adding a data pack if you want) but keep it is an option not something carrier tied.
post #91 of 99
[/LIST]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

have you actually seen some of the European roaming charges? They are actually quite cheap now for roaming

Yep. They passed a law last year to standardize maximum roaming charges to reduce the roaming charges on wireless voice plans.

For now, a call from Paris to Brussels*, a distance of less than 200 miles, its 60¢ a minute and the receiver is charged 60¢ a minute.

On the other hand, Miami to Seattle, a distance of more than 3300 miles, is free for both parties.

Been there. Seen it. Done it. And that is for local residents. My rate was 99¢/min via AT&T

Data Roaming was:
  • 2.5 billion text messages are sent every year by roaming customers in the EU.
  • SMS sent from abroad cost over 10 times more than domestic SMS.
  • Average cost of a "roamed" text message in the EU between October 2007 and March 2008: 40¢. Maximum price: $1.06 for citizens travelling from Belgium.

Now SMS Roaming: 18¢ each

And data roaming is anywhere from $1 to $15 per Mb

P.S. If I am wrong, I will gladly correct and acknowledge my error. If only everybody did so, we wouldn't be seeing some of the stupid things that some are trying to get away with.


*or from anywhere in one country to another
post #92 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Yep. They passed a law last year to standardize maximum roaming charges to reduce the roaming charges on wireless voice plans.

For now, a call from Paris to Brussels*, a distance of less than 200 miles, its 60¢ a minute and the receiver is charged 60¢ a minute.

Which carrier, Vodafone charges you a connection fee, and then the rest of the call comes out of your monthly minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

On the other hand, Miami to Seattle, a distance of more than 3300 miles, is free for both parties.

They are in the same country, what is your point? How much does it cost to call from Niagara in Canada to Niagara in the USA when roaming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

P.S. If I am wrong, I will gladly correct and acknowledge my error. If only everybody did so, we wouldn't be seeing some of the stupid things that some are trying to get away with.

*or from anywhere in one country to another

They are all independent countries, and there are not constant companies across the entire EU. Look at companies like Vodafone that have a lot of networks, their prices have dropped a lot.
post #93 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

Have your car breakdown in Death Valley and you will

Ok, so this kind of actually happened to me. I was in the middle of nowhere in the Mojave and had what we'll call a mishap with my vehicle. iPhone had one bar and dropped the call a couple of times, but it eventually worked and I got help.

Just throwing that out there.
post #94 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Which carrier, Vodafone charges you a connection fee, and then the rest of the call comes out of your monthly minutes.

They are in the same country, what is your point? How much does it cost to call from Niagara in Canada to Niagara in the USA when roaming?

They are all independent countries, and there are not constant companies across the entire EU. Look at companies like Vodafone that have a lot of networks, their prices have dropped a lot.

This all started with Bartfat complaining about the US wireless prices by stating that,
Quote:
somehow Europe's providers can manage in Europe to cover the continent for $20 a month, plus give you landline internet

Which is not true. There are roaming charges between countries as you know.
post #95 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamw View Post

Please, Apple, have a communication chip inside it so it will work with either AT&T or Verizon, without the need to buy a carrier specific model of the tablet.

They tried but it couldn't be done in time. Qualcomm was late in developing their dual mode cdma/gsm chip so it won't be released in time for Apple to use with either the tablet or the 4th gen iphone. So Apple will be forced to come out with 2 versions of each device. At least for this round of product refreshes.

iPhone 5th gen and tablet 2 will probably get the dual mode chips.
post #96 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

This all started with Bartfat complaining about the US wireless prices by stating that,


Which is not true. There are roaming charges between countries as you know.

Yes some providers charge roaming between the countries, because they are independent countries. So their statement is wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that roaming occurs world wide, including the US.
post #97 of 99
Umm sorry Qualcomm is getting royalty payments for 3G UMTS as well (it uses WCDMA technology)..

http://www.thestalwart.com/the_stalw...mm_patent.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Apple would end up in court quicker than you can say Qualcomm. They own the patents on CDMA, and are very picky who they license it to—which is why most of the world uses GSM. Qualcomm supposedly has a combination GSM/CDMA chipset in the works but it's vaporware at this point.

I personally don't see Apple using anything from Verizon until 4G has supplanted most of the world. Apple likes to keep their supply chains very simple. There's only 1 version of each product they make, sold all around the world. There's no iMac for Japan, iPhone 3G for India, iPhone 3GS for New Zealand—they're all the same all around the world. Even the iPhone 3G for China is the same; they just disabled the WiFi via a software firmware update.

If they made a tablet that used CDMA they would need 2 versions, one for the US and the rest of the world. And contrary to what was said earlier, the US is actually less than 50% of Apple's iPhone sales. So they're not going to give up on the portion of the world that buys 51% of their products.

I also agree with others in that the data contract won't be included. If this device is supposed to be a "media" device, there is NO WAY IN HELL any cell company is going to let a device that can browse the full Web for what will amount to a couple bucks a month. Most analysts have surmized Amazon pays Sprint about $2 per subscriber per month, while AT&T and Verizon charge $30/month for a data plan on top of a $30/month voice plan. I doubt either network would give up the gravy train of $30/month subscribers for a couple dollars from Apple, when Apple's device will consumer way more bandwidth and tie up a lot more cellular channels to the tower, than a cell phone.
post #98 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Yes some providers charge roaming between the countries, because they are independent countries. So their statement is wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that roaming occurs world wide, including the US.

Obviously you know that, I know that, but Bartfat didn't know that.

Bartfat didn't say anything about roaming. He was contending that the European carriers provided continental wireless voice and data plans inclusive for just $20 a month and questioned as to why the US couldn't do the same.
post #99 of 99
Hey Verizon huggers - don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

I've got a better idea - perhaps the SEC would like to investigate these flood of false PR rumors that seem to appear around the time they announce massive layoffs.

Nah - they wouldn't be interested in that would they.
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