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Best President of your country ancient and modern age

post #1 of 160
2/10/02 at 3:01am
Thread Starter 
for the recent age : De Gaulle ,he was a man of honor, this sort of man has disapear in our recent times. He was never interested in making money, nor give advantages to his family, his only task was France (he was more interested indeed by France , than by frenchs : one of his most famous declarations : les français sont des veaux).


As i wrote this thread i realize that i was in difficulty to put a name for a french president of the old age : first , the constitution was different (De gaulle made the president constitutional system) and the prime minister was more important. so i much confess my lack of knowledge of the recent history of my country, and i won't gave a name.

Last thing, for those who live in monarchic constitution they can give the name of their first minister (of course). But this thread is not about the king of the olds ages.
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post #2 of 160
2/10/02 at 3:41am
In the US I think Clinton was the best president since Kennedy. I can barely recall Kennedy so I can't really judge him.

Bush is just scarey. He is using the tragedy of current events to trample on civil rights and expand the powers of large corporations.

As to past presidents, that is a difficult question. Partly because I am ignorant of the details not having studied them in detail. Jefferson and Lincoln seem very impressive to me. I think Jefferson had very good ideas for governing. Lincoln had to manage during a terrible time in history.
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post #3 of 160
2/10/02 at 6:28am
Different Presidents have offered different things to the nation. Washington has be be considered the greatest since his Presidency became the model for all future ones. People wanted to make him king, but he saw beyond possible power and was a very modest man. Beyond him I think the best were Jefferson, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and FDR. Kennedy was more myth than anything else and his myth has grown throughout the years.
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post #4 of 160
2/10/02 at 9:03am
I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:

1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now.
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post #5 of 160
2/10/02 at 9:58am
[quote]I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:

1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now. <hr></blockquote>

You have got to be kidding me. He also got elected on the platform that he would get the US out of Vietnam. That happened, didn't it? What a horrible man and a worse president.
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post #6 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:00pm
[quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:
<strong>In the US I think Clinton was the best president since Kennedy. I can barely recall Kennedy so I can't really judge him.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ha ha ha. Clinton is on my list as one of the worst presidents ever. His complacency in the face of terrorism did nothing to stop 9-11. In fact it may have incouraged it.


I think Lincon was the most important US president.
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post #7 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:03pm
[quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:
<strong>Bush is just scarey. He is using the tragedy of current events to trample on civil rights and expand the powers of large corporations.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Clinton signed the DMCA. Maybe one of the worst laws ever. What has Bush done that's been as damaging to consumers and expanded the "powers of large corporations".

You may want to remove the rose colored glasses before you answer.
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post #8 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:13pm
[quote]His complacency in the face of terrorism did nothing to stop 9-11.<hr></blockquote>

Oh please. When Clinton responded to the terrorist attacks on our embassies by bombing terrorist facilities, the Republican congress started screaming "Wag the Dog, Wag the Dog, Wag the Dog!"

Republicans were quoted as saying that Clinton did not take the correct action in retaliating; saying that he was just trying to draw attention away from the impeachment hearings (ha, what a joke those were).
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post #9 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:18pm
Clinton met with his head of the CIA once and never after he (CIA head) took the job.
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post #10 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:23pm
Clinton's lame attempt at bin Laden was a wage the dog. He only did it to get the pressure off himself.

I wouldn't blame him for 9-11 but I will blame him for not doing anything about terrorism. Contrast that with Bush who was setting up a plan of action to deal with the issue.
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post #11 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:27pm
Bah! No Clinton debates!

I don't think much of either Kennedy or Nixon. My all-time favorite American presidents are Thomas Jefferson,Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
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post #12 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:30pm
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Clinton's lame attempt at bin Laden was a wage the dog. He only did it to get the pressure off himself.

I wouldn't blame him for 9-11 but I will blame him for not doing anything about terrorism. Contrast that with Bush who was setting up a plan of action to deal with the issue.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i don't really understand how a person could compare/contrast clinton's and bush's response to the terrorism that took place during their terms. the bombing of a couple of embassies and of the cole, and the flying of airplanes into buildings are two totally different things. one is an attack on the government, the other is an attack on civilians. i firmly believe that clinton could not have gotten approval from congress to do more than he did at the time. i also believe that if 9/11 happened while clinton was president, then he would respond in the same manner as bush.

still think that clinton was the best modern president, reagan was the worst, carter is the best out of office president, lincoln was the best president of yesteryear, and i've never really thought about the worse president of yore before, so i'll leave it at that.
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post #13 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
Uhm ! this thread was supposed to be positive . But as always when you ask what is the best you always think who is the worst.
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post #14 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:52pm
Sir John A. Macdonald was the first Canadian Prime Minister (there is no President, as Canada is not a republic)... and of course Canada started to come together under him. Leaving judgments of who was best to other people, I suppose the greatest Prime Minister of our time was Pierre Trudeau.
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post #15 of 160
2/10/02 at 1:54pm
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>

i don't really understand how a person could compare/contrast clinton's and bush's response to the terrorism that took place during their terms. the bombing of a couple of embassies and of the cole, and the flying of airplanes into buildings are two totally different things.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah! But see Bush was working on this plan of action BEFORE 9-11.

[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
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post #16 of 160
2/10/02 at 2:11pm
If that's true, he really failed then, didn't he?
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post #17 of 160
2/10/02 at 2:36pm
Theodore Roosevelt is my favorite President. FDR was pretty cool too. I think Clinton was the best President of my lifetime, but look at the competition. Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and dumb and dumber.

I think Clinton had the most potential since Kennedy, but it was largely unrealized due to his own faults as well as the maliciousness of the right.
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post #18 of 160
2/10/02 at 2:39pm
Lincoln, Roosevelt (both), Truman.
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post #19 of 160
2/10/02 at 2:42pm
Clinton was neither among the best nor among the worst. He is mediocre and nothing special and will be remembered as someone who did very little with 8 years of great prosperity.

Nixon was good, he got us out of Vietnam, he gets props for that.

What the hell did Kennedy every do? Besides get shot and have a pretty wife?

I think the best American president in the "modern age" would have to be FDR.
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post #20 of 160
2/10/02 at 3:41pm
[quote]What the hell did Kennedy every do? Besides get shot and have a pretty wife?<hr></blockquote>

Well, there was this little thing called the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Plus, Nixon got us out of Vietnam? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Man, that's a good one. To think that the person who kept our forces in Vietnam for years after he was elected despite promising a quick recall of troops was really responsible for anything besides resigning is laughable.
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post #21 of 160
2/10/02 at 3:45pm
Ancient-George Washington and Abraham Lincoln
Modern-Teddy Roosevelt and FDR

Kennedy wasn't in power long enough to judge him. Nixon was evil incarnate. Reagan and Pappa Bush were excellent in foreign policy, a disaster in domestic policy. Clinton was the opposite. All three did nothing to stop illegal immigration and the wanton disrespect for our laws......................
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post #22 of 160
2/10/02 at 4:05pm
[quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:
<strong>In the US I think Clinton was the best president since Kennedy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bwahahaha. Or as Bender says in tonights hilarious episode of Futurama: "Oh, you were serious; BWAHAHAHA"
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post #23 of 160
2/10/02 at 4:10pm
First of all there is no such thing as an ancient US president. With that said, the best president of the United States was Jefferson, who, in my opinion, takes the honor easily. Though his activities as President weren't the actions that gave him distinction.

He was the man behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The US was the first country where citizenship mattered. It was the beginning of the end for the aristocrats and leaders of overcultured European states of the time. The French revolution that followed so soon after the American constitution, in all likelihood, would not have happened had it not been for the work of Jefferson. Soon, other European states would follow suit. So in a sense he is the man who, to a great extent, liberated the western world.

When I think of Presidents that did well in handling difficult events, Lincoln and FDR come to mind, but FDR doesn't really strike me as a great man. Rather I see him as an old-money American aristocrat with all brains and no balls. When it all comes down to it, I really can't think of a President more able than Jefferson.
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post #24 of 160
2/10/02 at 4:36pm
It amuses me that people immediately say Lincoln was a great president without any knowledge of what Lincoln was really like, other than he oversaw the civil war. Read up on Lincoln. He never was in favor of the war, or even the abolition of slavery. Just because it happened under his watch doesn't mean he made it happen.
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post #25 of 160
2/10/02 at 4:49pm
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."
Abraham Lincoln, September 18, 1858
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post #26 of 160
2/10/02 at 5:21pm
For the U.S. like several people here, Lincon, Teddy R., FDR (Marginal), and Regan was ok, except for "Reganomics".
[quote] "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality." <hr></blockquote>
Duh, do you think anyone runing for President in 1858 would have had a chance in hell of getting elected saying:
"I will say then that I am in favor of bringing about social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, qualifying them to hold office, intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that I believe will allow the two races to live together on terms of social and political equality"
Jeez think with your head.
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post #27 of 160
2/10/02 at 5:53pm
Some of us not only know Lincoln's thoughts about racial equality, we also know the REAL causes of the Civil War. Lincoln was a racist as Joseph Conrad was when he wrote Heart of Darkness -- many think that the only story here is their apparent racism. That has nothing to do with it. We might as well throw out our great people in all of history with that logic. They have all been racist or homophobic or anti-semitic or what-have-you. Michelangelo hated Protestants. Ben Franklin was just plain crass. The emperor Hadrian destroyed the Jewish state in Judea. Their accomplishments are more important than their faults. Sorry to be so un-PC, but don't interpret it as being a bigot. Abraham Lincoln saved the Republic, and frankly his struggles both internal and with the outside world are what I respect the most. No one is perfect, and Jesus wasn't President.
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post #28 of 160
2/10/02 at 5:57pm
It would be nice if this weren't a near-monopoly on American leaders, but that's what most of us are obviously most familiar with. Any Brits/Welsh/Scots care to take the plunge?
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post #29 of 160
2/10/02 at 6:17pm
Vietnam was not started by Nixon. FACT.
Vietnam ended under Nixon's Presidency. FACT.

He got us out of Vietnam. FACT.

Plus, he started diplomatic relations with China. A swell move. Better to have the 3rd most powerful country doing business with you rather than against you.

And no, I don't think Reagan was a bad president. I put him near the top.

Silent Cal was a decent president, there's no way he could have foreseen the stock market crash that would give Hoover a bad name.

Kennedy was a great speaker, but his Presidency was cut short. Who knows how much more influential he could have been?

Eisenhower was cool because he was cool.

For older Presidents, I'd probably say Lincoln or either of the Adams's.

[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
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post #30 of 160
2/10/02 at 8:47pm
Overall, I'd probably vote George Washington. He helped a foreign policy that has kept America safe, secure, and prosperous for two centuries.

Reagan was excellent, in my opinion, and the elder Bush is severely underrated. I really wish we could have seen what he would have done with a full eight years.

I generally despise Clinton. He took the credit for the robust economy, though he didn't deserve it, and he somehow managed to ignore foreign policy for eight years and get clapped on the back for it. Bizarre.

George W. Bush is showing a lot of potential. If he can overcome the negative image he's being branded with and make it to another term, he'll do well.

Condoleeza Rice gets my vote for best potential president.
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post #31 of 160
2/10/02 at 8:58pm
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:

1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now. </strong><hr></blockquote>

4) He got us out of Vietnam
People hate Nixon but he really did a lot of good things. What people need to realise is that if Clinton had been President during that time and had had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, he would have been forced to resign and would have been viewed as the worst president ever.
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post #32 of 160
2/11/02 at 3:13am
[quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:
<strong>... the best president of the United States was Jefferson, who, in my opinion, takes the honor easily. Though his activities as President weren't the actions that gave him distinction.

He was the man behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Madison was the primary author of the Constitution. IMO, Jefferson was a great man but a bit of a mixed bag as a President. He did negotiate the Louisiana purchase which was a seriously cool bit of statecraft. But while he was in office Jefferson was never tested in the way that Lincoln was. Lincoln was our greatest President. Washington is a close second. The best modern President was Reagan. I also have a high regard for Truman and Coolidge. But again, Silent Cal was never tested as President the way FDR and Truman were.
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post #33 of 160
2/11/02 at 11:57am
Mybe I'm missing something, but IMO, Regan's response to AIDS killed thousands. I cannt see how a person that did this could be called one of the greatest presidents.
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post #34 of 160
2/11/02 at 12:17pm
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:

1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now. </strong><hr></blockquote>

4) The EPA was formed under Nixon.
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post #35 of 160
2/11/02 at 1:43pm
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>Mybe I'm missing something, but IMO, Regan's response to AIDS killed thousands. I cannt see how a person that did this could be called one of the greatest presidents.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually butt ****ing without a condom did. Unless you're suggesting Reagan spent time in the bath houses <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
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post #36 of 160
2/11/02 at 1:59pm
Sheesh Scott, I can' t believe you actually think the only people that died from AIDS (even in the 80's) were male homos who had anal sex.

Anyhow...

Washington was the most important president. Jefferson was a great man. Lincoln probably had the hardest job as President. Both Roosevelts were great Presidents. Truman and Wilson were great Presidents during time of war.

I've never cared for Hoover, Coolidge or Jackson (now there was a racist).

FWIW, I don't think Lincoln was bigoted. He simply didn't think that Whites and Blacks would ever get along. And in many ways he was correct. If I'm not mistaken, he wanted to ship black people back to Africa.

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
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post #37 of 160
2/11/02 at 2:41pm
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>

Actually butt ****ing without a condom did. Unless you're suggesting Reagan spent time in the bath houses :confused:

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


that's pretty narrow minded.
if you are president and thousands of your citizens are getting sick and dying from something that no one understands, you need to do something about it.
i know this is off topic, but just to let you know, scott:
in 1981, the first media report of the pandemic was published. the same year, the CDC published reports of an unknown disease. Six years, 36,000 infections, and 21,000 deaths later, Reagan made his first public comment on the disease. in 1988, the National AIDS Commission (which he formed) presented him with over 500 recommendations of how to fight the disease. The list was reduced to 10 items.

i don't know where you come from, but where i come from, that's pretty irresponsible.

cheers.
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post #38 of 160
2/11/02 at 2:41pm
[quote]Originally posted by seb:
<strong>Sheesh Scott, I can' t believe you actually think the only people that died from AIDS (even in the 80's) were male homos who had anal sex. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Is that what I said
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post #39 of 160
2/11/02 at 2:52pm
yes that's what you said you &^#&%^^(%!!


and by the way the proper way to read Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness IMO, is to see it as a responce to King Leopold of Belgium's outright racist slaughter of black while trying to react to the demand for rubber caused by the invention of rubber bicycle tires. He was not saying that the heart of man's darkness was teh Dark Continent. but rather was saying that what was being done their by the "civilized" world was more savage then could be imagined.
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post #40 of 160
2/11/02 at 3:03pm
  • Anders
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I like him

Since you don´t know anything about danish politics I am going with US presidents.

Franklin Roosevelt: I know only a little about New Deal but it seems like good old european Social Democratic/Keynes economic policy. Its not always effective but at least it puts people first.

Kennedy: Cuban Missile Crisis. he saved 4 billion+ lifes.
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