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iPhone App Store developers find ways to profit from pirates - Page 3

post #81 of 139
1/25/10 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's easier to install a pirated app on Mac OS X than it is on the iPhone so saying that a jailbroken is only used for piracy or elude to both App Stores being equal is so far from the truth that is laughable and clear that you've never jailbroken your phoe and checke out the diversity of the Cydia or Rock stores.

Logically, if it's just for stealing apps then why even have an app store when in of itself is not required for app piracy, only access to the root which could be built into the jailbreak. The fact is there is a huge amount of functionality that can be had, most of which I hope Apple adds to iPhone OS v4.0 so I don't have to bother with jailbreaking.

The concept "if Apple doesn't include the functionality it must not be important to me" is one reason people tend to have Apple enthusiests.

I've been to them. I know what's there.

It's interesting to think that it's the "other things" that's driving them. It isn't. If there's one thing that 80% of people go for, but 99 that the other 20% go for, what do you think the main purpose is for?

I know it will take some time to work that out, so I'll wait.
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post #82 of 139
1/25/10 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

I would like to see you try this in, lets say an Apple store. 'Excuse me, I'm just shoplifting this iMac to try it out and to see if I like it. Don't worry if I don't like it I will bring it back'

I am afraid that your arguments are now null and void as you have publicly admitted to being a pirate.

Sure have and unless Apple include a way to test apps before purchase, like you can with an iMac in every Apple Store, I'll continue to test any app over $10. If your problemish
was with afesr of reprisal that is understandable, but if your problem is a myopic veiw or right and wrong without consideration for the situation at and then I feel sorry you. I wasn't going to dish out $100 for an app just to never use it again because it crashes or fails to do what I need I to do.

Not that care what you think but every app I've tested I've either deleted because I didn't like it or bought on the App Store to support the developer. That means not a single IPA file I have is cracked.
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post #83 of 139
1/25/10 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've been to them. I know what's there.

It's interesting to think that it's the "other things" that's driving them. It isn't. If there's one thing that 80% of people go for, but 99 that the other 20% go for, what do you think the main purpose is for?

I know it will take some time to work that out, so I'll wait.

By that logic, an invaluable App Store app that appeals only to a small fraction of the iPhone OS community invalidates the app's importance overall.
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post #84 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure have and unless Apple include a way to test apps before purchase, like you can with an iMac in every Apple Store, I'll continue to test any app over $10. If your problemish
was with afesr of reprisal that is understandable, but if your problem is a myopic veiw or right and wrong without consideration for the situation at and then I feel sorry you. I wasn't going to dish out $100 for an app just to never use it again because it crashes or fails to do what I need I to do.

Not that care what you think but every app I've tested I've either deleted because I didn't like it or bought on the App Store to support the developer. That means not a single IPA file I have is cracked.

If you really don't like an app, you can usually get your money back. Try it. It still doesn't mean that pirating it is proper.

Besides, most pirates use that excuse. It's still just an excuse.
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post #85 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

By that logic, an invaluable App Store app that appeals only to a small fraction of the iPhone OS community invalidates the app's importance overall.

No, you're changing the argument, though I don't think you realize that.

People go to the app store to get apps, legally, and properly. How well any individual app does doesn't invalidate that.

When you go to a place that specializes in helping you pirate apps, and most are going there for that, then that's what it's for, despite other things being available there that may be more legit.
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post #86 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure have and unless Apple include a way to test apps before purchase, like you can with an iMac in every Apple Store, I'll continue to test any app over $10. If your problemish
was with afesr of reprisal that is understandable, but if your problem is a myopic veiw or right and wrong without consideration for the situation at and then I feel sorry you. I wasn't going to dish out $100 for an app just to never use it again because it crashes or fails to do what I need I to do.

Not that care what you think but every app I've tested I've either deleted because I didn't like it or bought on the App Store to support the developer. That means not a single IPA file I have is cracked.

You openly admitted to pirating the TomTom app and have openly admitted that any app over $10 you will also pirate to 'test'. Unfortunately it appears that you are a thief and you try and dress it up so that it plays well with your conscience, but at the end of the day you are no better than a shoplifter or burglar or even a scummy street mugger.
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post #87 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If you really don't like an app, you can usually get your money back. Try it. It still doesn't mean that pirating it is proper.

You can and I addressed this. Apple phenomenal about the refunds it’s just less convenient and as i’ve stated I’ve paid for every app I’ve decided to keep. Various pricey games which I like and think I’ll play but never do. TomTom is the only non-game I’ve pirated, and I deleted it quickly seeing that it was no replacement to my stand alone TomTom.

You may or not may not recall, but I’ve saying that the notification system was woefully out of date before WebOS and Android made it blatantly clear. Maybe as far back in iPhone v1.x.

And I’ve been requesting a trial version of apps using the exploding FairPlay DRM found in iTS movie rentals since the iPhone OS SDK was introduced. Though I seem to be the only one. Why would I even conceive of such a thing if stealing apps was the only thing on my agenda?

The fact is, convenience is my primary concern and if that means taking a very, very slim risk of getting my phone repaired under warranty or risk having the “EULA police” knocking down my door, then so be it. I buy new HW every year as it is so I’m not worried.

Quote:
Besides, most pirates use that excuse. It's still just an excuse.

That doesn’t change the fact that Cydia and Rock app stores are filled with apps free and paod for that don’t have anything to do with cracked IPAs.

I don’t feel a sense of entitlement to my jailbreaking. I’ve always maintained, even in this thread, that Apple has the right to lock down their HW, OS and App Store, but that doesn’t mean I don’t feel I’m allowed to use my device as I see fit.

"I do not agree with what you do with your iPhone, but I'll defend to the death your right to use it."
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post #88 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, you're changing the argument, though I don't think you realize that.

People go to the app store to get apps, legally, and properly. How well any individual app does doesn't invalidate that.

When you go to a place that specializes in helping you pirate apps, and most are going there for that, then that's what it's for, despite other things being available there that may be more legit.

By that logic any internet search engine is guilty of aiding and abetting piracy, child abuse, infidelity, animal abuse, etc. I may have given you a point if jailbreaking didnt predate the App Store, if Cydia and Rocks only purpose was to make stealing apps easier, and if iPhone OS plus App Store had every single functionality that a jailbroken iPhone had. As it stands, its not even close, at least not with iPhone OS v3.x.
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post #89 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

You openly admitted to pirating...

Yep, sure did.
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post #90 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:54pm
Please, look these up if need be but ENOUGH with "Jailbreakers are pirates" bullsh*t.
-*SBS settings*
-quickscroll
-haptic feedback
-notifications
-Stacks
-ssh
-TOGGLE:
rotation
volume
brightness
location
auolock
-quick restart-respring
-themes
-animated icons
And many many more..

**Long live the jailbreaking community**
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post #91 of 139
1/25/10 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Please, look these up if need be but ENOUGH with "Jailbreakers are pirates" bullsh*t.
[…]
brightness

Now that you mention it, even having a flashlight app that will automatically go to full brightness when accessed without first having to go Settings » Brightness to adjust it and back again to correct it, are enough for me to continue jailbreaking.
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post #92 of 139
1/25/10 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Now that you mention it, even having a flashlight app that will automatically go to full brightness when accessed without first having to go Settings » Brightness to adjust it and back again to correct it, are enough for me to continue jailbreaking.

Exactly.. I'll be paying close attention Wed. for more than just news of the tablet. Maybe some of these functionalities will be addressed in 4.0. I too have quite the list going.
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post #93 of 139
1/25/10 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I can tether, with no jailbreak.

What about developers, who have their work stolen and have to make up for it by plying pirates with more ads, ads which legitimate owners also have to put up with.

Jailbreaking enables pirates!


And, if one was a complete and total idiot, that might be reason alone to believe that Jailbreaking is therefore a bad, evil thing. Since it can be used for nefarious purposes, it must itself be nefarious.

Those without Jobs' nuts in their mouths and a brain in their heads might think differently.

When you rip a DVD or CD, depending copyright and fair use laws in your jurisdiction, you might be well within your rights. Hell, even Apple originally launched iTunes as a CD ripping app. Does that mean iTunes is wrong and should be avoided? After all, RIPPING CD'S IN ITUNES ENABLES PIRATES. Oh well, I am sure you will rationalize this, as it was Apple that released it.

Hell, you, I assume, own a computer. Perhaps even a Mac. Were you aware that computers can be used for piracy? A shocking thought, I know, but it is true. Really. Anyone so self righteous as to paint all users of a tool that might enable piracy, would certainly ball up and give up their computer. I have my doubts about the strength of their convictions though. Ironically if Jobs asked these the people to do it (and perhaps drink some purple kool-aid), they would do so in a heart beat. That is what happens when some of the devoted turn in their brains.

Not all jailbreakers are thieves. It takes very, very dense line of thought to make that equation. Almost as dense as believing that JB is wrong because pirates also use it.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #94 of 139
1/25/10 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Cydia, like the x86 project, is being disingenuous. They know very well that the entire purpose of their existence is for people to download pirated apps. They serve no other purpose.

I must ask you something, but wouldn't want you to take it as a flame:

Do you even know what's Cydia is all about?

There is not a single pirate app in Cydia!
Again: Not even one of the hundred of thousands apps available in iTunes could be found on Cydia!

The only way Cydia coud be possibly linked to piracy is that it's possible - I say POSSIBLE - for some to include a pirate repository in Cydia, in a way that through it some could install a patch that would allow some to include pirate apps in iPhones (by other means, that's not Cydia) .


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

They say what they do in an attempt to stay out of Apple's claws. They attempt to present the information as "educational", and not for what it really is.

I bought some apps from Cydia repos, usually via PayPal payment.
None of them are ever available in app store (some never submitted, some not approved by apple draconian approval process). Where's the piracy of that?
Most of them are donationware, which means that you can use anyways, paying or not.
People coding these apps are devs too, like the other ones, and make legitimate money (by legitimate I mean not stealing IP from anybody)...


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The fact that some apps are not found in Brazil's store isn't a good reason to steal them.
It's still theft.

You're right, but not quite.

First of all, it's not "some apps", it's almost the entire library of apps. The ones that are present here are, mostly, some of the free apps.

Stealing something from someone also means, thinking the other way around, that someone would still have that something in his/her possession.

If the someones (the devs) - whatever the reason - could not sell their app in Brazil (or any other unimportant market for Apple), they will not make any money in that specific market, whether piracy exists or not.
It's a matter of Apple's priority, and it's not a transfer of money, from the devs hands to the pirates hands, in this specific case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If there are licensing issues, or some other problem that prevents them from being sold there, you can be sure that it's rarely the developer who prefers it that way, or, for that matter, Apple.

Neither, for that matter, by the users' choice, for sure.

I prefer to pay for them.
Most of people I know, says the same.
Most of people I know buy the rare apps and musics available in the BR's iTunes store.
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post #95 of 139
1/25/10 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The very fact that someone would bother to pirate a 99 cent or $1.99 app just illustrates what kind of mentality permeates consumer and geek culture. Further reinforces the notion of a "freemium" app being the best model.

No. It's not just one off's. Pirates download packs of (cracked) apps and install all at once. $0.99 x 200 apps = $200.00. Quite easy to find them on the net.

The guys from TapTap took advantage of what the RIAA did not. Pirating does not take away sales. We've been over this over and over.

Pirates either would never have bought in the first place or will buy if the app is not a piece of shit. Same goes for music. In the case where a pirate would never have bought the app in the first place he/she still tells their circle of friends about the app and it get more publicity.

If your product is quality pirating does nothing except promote that product. If your product is shit well, it's shit and that's par for the course.

And yes that is why as a developer if you don't have a free version of your app, you're an idiot. This is echoed on all app development and marketing sites as well. I can't count the times I've passed by an app because there was no trial. I've bought full versions of 90% of the lite versions I've tried.
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post #96 of 139
1/26/10 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

two different games. not everyone that does one does the other.
also, at least in the US there's not unlock fee. You can't unlock under the terms. there's a blackmarket for unlocking and some folks will do it for a price. but you can not,for example,go to ATT with your iphone and say 'okay so I did my two years, unlock it' at any price at this point in time

That's really mean.. Over here in Europe I think that would be illegal.
I'd never jailbreak my phone if I could buy it at a normal price with free choice of carrier. Not interested in jailbreaking or piracy, i just want it to work for my carrier at home and pay cards abroad, since they have benefits the iPhone carriers do not. So I'm left with the hackers.

Lately I've found one of the iPhone carriers over here though that has one package aimed for companies. Paying for the iPhone, then for breaking the contract and unlocking the phone ends up in, roughly, 2x the price. That's better than 4x the price that has been the normal unlocked iPhone-price in EU. Getting more reasonable
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post #97 of 139
1/26/10 at 12:43am
Like you have done, you mean?

Examine the statement:-

JAILBREAKING ENABLES PIRATES

and kindly explain how you reached the conclusion that it states that all jailbreakers are pirates based on these three simple words?

All pirates are jailbreakers is the obvious conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Not all jailbreakers are thieves. It takes very, very dense line of thought to make that equation. Almost as dense as believing that JB is wrong because pirates also use it.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #98 of 139
1/26/10 at 12:51am
Cydia, Rock store,

Rock store, Cydia,

Are not the source of cracked Apps and all the defenders know that.

To mention the source should get the post deleted as that is one of the jobs of the Mods.

Everyone knows that cracked Apps don't come from Cydia.

So please move on from that feeble defensive argument.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #99 of 139
1/26/10 at 1:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Cydia, Rock store,
Rock store, Cydia,
Are not the source of cracked Apps and all the defenders know that.
To mention the source should get the post deleted as that is one of the jobs of the Mods.
Everyone knows that cracked Apps don't come from Cydia.
So please move on from that feeble defensive argument.

Actually, it's even worse than what you might have presumed. Cydia distributes crackers. Cydia sells apps rejected by Apple at AppStore; nobody can guarantee these apps are harmless.
They are unlawful.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #100 of 139
1/26/10 at 2:01am
Well I guess that came about by the noble, holier than thou, "it's about the freedom to use my hardware as I see fit" crowd over at Cydia being rolled by a younger, faster crowd with less scruples.

A little rain has turned into a flood.

The unofficial App store that begins with the letter 'I" shall remain nameless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Actually, it's even worse than what you might have presumed. Cydia distributes crackers. Cydia sells apps rejected by Apple at AppStore; nobody can guarantee these apps are harmless.
They are unlawful.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #101 of 139
1/26/10 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Well I guess that came about by the noble, holier than thou, "it's about the freedom to use my hardware as I see fit"

Oh, you can't really settle things about multitasking with those folks. Leasing, hardware+service package, all that is just supernatural.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #102 of 139
1/26/10 at 4:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Actually, it's even worse than what you might have presumed. Cydia distributes crackers. Cydia sells apps rejected by Apple at AppStore; nobody can guarantee these apps are harmless.
They are unlawful.

I don't pirate apps BUT Who cares if they may be harmful. Smoking is deadly, drinking is harmful, driving your car is harmful. Windows is the most harmful piece of software on the planet. What isn't harmful? Plus cracked apps aren't harmful like "ouch ouch".

Cydia sells apps rejected by Apple at AppStore.

Indie labels sell bands rejected by Warner.
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post #103 of 139
1/26/10 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Actually, it's even worse than what you might have presumed. Cydia distributes crackers. Cydia sells apps rejected by Apple at AppStore; nobody can guarantee these apps are harmless.
They are unlawful.

1) So, just because Apple didn't approve them, they are unlawful?
2) Nobody can guarantee that the apps available through the App Store are harmless either. Apple vets them but does not review the source.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #104 of 139
1/26/10 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Like you have done, you mean?

Examine the statement:-

JAILBREAKING ENABLES PIRATES

and kindly explain how you reached the conclusion that it states that all jailbreakers are pirates based on these three simple words?

All pirates are jailbreakers is the obvious conclusion.

See, that's the problem with your short, hit and run, little value posts. You generally argue against JBing. You back this up with little one liners like "JAILBREAKING ENABLES PIRATES" with the obvious implication that is is justification for your belief that it is wrong. You can try to feebly re-parse it and say that is not what you meant, but it obvious to all that read that is exactly what you meant.

Now, are all pirate's jailbreakers? sure. You can even try to make that your new line of argument. And all music pirates use computers and DVD drives. All movie pirates use DVD drives and computers as well. What's you point? That they use tools to perpetuate their piracy and that those tools are therefore wrong? Weak, weak argument. No surprise though. Almost as weak as you other arguments in other threads...like your insistence that VOIP not being available on the iPhone over 3G was somehow related to Skype being slow with their Nokia hardware...just barely worth reading but certainly worth responding to to prevent that sort of 'thinking' from spreading.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #105 of 139
1/26/10 at 5:28am
*yawn*
Much to your surprise, Tulkas? You pretty much got it right this time....

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #106 of 139
1/26/10 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

*yawn*
Much to your surprise, Tulkas? You pretty much got it right this time....

Tired? Perhaps a repost when you wake up to clarify...I don't speak nonsensical.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #107 of 139
1/26/10 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Tired? Perhaps a repost when you wake up to clarify...I don't speak nonsensical.

You used to write way too much emotionally and without real knowing what you write about.

Clarifications? The answers to your questions are as follows:
1) Yes; 2a) Apple guarantees; 2b) Untrue.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #108 of 139
1/26/10 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

You used to write way too much emotionally and without real knowing what you write about.

Wow....dude, do you miss the irony of accusing me of exactly what you are doing in the very post you accuse me of it?

Let's review so you can catch up to reality:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Clarifications? The answers to your questions are as follows:
1) Yes; 2a) Apple guarantees; 2b) Untrue.

let's start with 2B. You are completely wrong here. Apple does not review the source code of submitted apps. They do not have the time or resources that would require that sort of undertaking. I will assume you have never programmed and so are unfamiliar with how time consuming a review of source from 100,000 apps might be.

Once that fallacy is removed, your 2A response become equally untrue. Apple cannot guarantee the safety of the apps because Apple does not know exactly what is happening under the hood of these apps. If they did, you wouldn't see the easter-eggs that have been known to appear from time to time. Generally, they have been harmless, but there is nothing but the honour system and app store bannings from preventing a unscrupulous developer from slipping something in.

Your answer to 1 is simply telling of your attitude. That something is right or wrong simply because Apple approves or disapproves of it shows a willingness to bend to whatever Apple says. That line of thinking is one I just cannot agree with. Leads to koolaid parties.

Anyhoo, when you catch up with facts, perhaps you won't continue to post "without real knowing what you write about."

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #109 of 139
1/26/10 at 6:45am
What was that 2b of yours? "Apple vets them but does not review the source."
Umm... No, I didn't pay much attention. I couldn't imagine someone might view source code review as the only way of detecting flaws. I don't really know what to say... Apple reviewing code of 100K applications? No, no, no.
You did hear something about how antivirus software works?

2A holds. And Apple does guarantee.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #110 of 139
1/26/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

What was that 2b of yours? "Apple vets them but does not review the source."
Umm... No, I didn't pay much attention. I couldn't imagine someone might view source code review as the only way of detecting flaws. I don't really know what to say... Apple reviewing code of 100K applications? No, no, no.
You did hear something about how antivirus software works?

2A holds. And Apple does guarantee.

Umm, yeah. I said they do not review the source. You said this was untrue. You were wrong.

Perhaps they do run AV software (but no to find 'flaws'). That is not the same as reviewing the source. They most likely run it though some custom automation QA systems too. Again, not the same as a source code review.

Without source review, they cannot guarantee what take place under the hood. So, no, you 2B and 2A are of no value. Apple does not access the source and so Apple cannot guarantee the 'safety' of the app. They can test an app all they like, but without source, it can be doing almost anything, just requiring a trigger which will never be tested...perhaps a specific date or event.

I honestly hope you don't think AV software if going to tell them anything but the most basic attempts to insert a virus into a submitted app. But virus really are the least of the concerns they would have when vetting the apps. And I really, really hope you don't think they are running AV software to detect 'flaws'...that goes beyond basic misunderstanding and should like mean never posting on a tech related forum again, simply out of shame.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #111 of 139
1/26/10 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Umm, yeah. I said they do not review the source. You said this was untrue. You were wrong.

Perhaps they do run AV software (but no to find 'flaws'). That is not the same as reviewing the source. They most likely run it though some custom automation QA systems too. Again, not the same as a source code review.

Without source review, they cannot guarantee what take place under the hood. So, no, you 2B and 2A are of no value. Apple does not access the source and so Apple cannot guarantee the 'safety' of the app. They can test an app all they like, but without source, it can be doing almost anything, just requiring a trigger which will never be tested...perhaps a specific date or event.

I honestly hope you don't think AV software if going to tell them anything but the most basic attempts to insert a virus into a submitted app. But virus really are the least of the concerns they would have when vetting the apps. And I really, really hope you don't think they are running AV software to detect 'flaws'...that goes beyond basic misunderstanding and should like mean never posting on a tech related forum again, simply out of shame.

Yes, I said "untrue". Yes, it was wrong. I just didn't pay attention and couldn't imagine someone still believed the only way to detect the flaws and exploits implemented in the code was source code review. We're no more cavemen, you know.

Your specific date or event is unlikely to ever happen because of strictly controlled multitasking and alarming mechanism being available only to Apple. Still, examining applications with some binary code analyzer is a must.

No, it doesn't make much sense to implant a virus in the app. I gave you a clue as to how their analyzer may work. Sure, being frozen at the level of code review in the 21st century you haven't picked it up...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #112 of 139
1/26/10 at 7:23am
Gotta love the asshat logic by some in this thread. [“iTunes] is unlawful because it enables the piracy of [music].” Sometimes the lack of common sense and criticial thinking in this world is amazing.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #113 of 139
1/26/10 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Yes, I said "untrue". Yes, it was wrong. I just didn't pay attention and couldn't imagine someone still believed the only way to detect the flaws and exploits implemented in the code was source code review. We're no more cavemen, you know.

Your specific date or event is unlikely to ever happen because of strictly controlled multitasking and alarming mechanism being available only to Apple. Still, examining applications with some binary code analyzer is a must.

No, it doesn't make much sense to implant a virus in the app. I gave you a clue as to how their analyzer may work. Sure, being frozen at the level of code review in the 21st century you haven't picked it up...

You may live in a magical fantasy world where Apple can guarantee the 'safety' of third party apps, without source code, by vetting them with AV scanners and binary tools. In the real world this is not possible. Hell, it isn't always possible to completely ensure the 'safety' or lack of flaws with source access. Otherwise, there wouldn't be exploits to, well, exploit.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #114 of 139
1/26/10 at 9:10am
*yawn*
Putting words in counterpart's mouth doesn't change facts much, my dear Tulkas. Apple does use code analyzers in approve process. It's well known in the community of iPhone developers. Surprising as it is, yet there's life beyond source code reviews. So is that beyond Ubuntu.
In our sad world Apple approval process detects reliably all exploits, flaws (sorry, we've got used to that language on tech forums; it may not be first one in the community of general tech bloggers and journalists) and API non-conformances.

We're yet to see any harmful behavior of apps sold by Apple via their App Store.

Hope it helped to deepen your expertise in Apple realm. It's amazing world, being by no means worse than that of Ubuntu.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #115 of 139
1/26/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

*yawn*
Putting words in counterpart's mouth doesn't change facts much, my dear Tulkas. Apple does use code analyzers in approve process. It's well known in the community of iPhone developers. Surprising as it is, yet there's life beyond source code reviews. So is that beyond Ubuntu.
In our sad world Apple approval process detects reliably all exploits, flaws (sorry, we've got used to that language on tech forums; it may not be first one in the community of general tech bloggers and journalists) and API non-conformances.

We're yet to see any harmful behavior of apps sold by Apple via their App Store.

Hope it helped to deepen your expertise in Apple realm. It's amazing world, being by no means worse than that of Ubuntu.

We've seen apps released that were subsequently pulled because the violated the terms of the SDK...how is it you think that happened? Did the apps developers use black magic to counter the spells used in the analyzers to get their easter eggs through the approval process? (C64 emulator for one i can think of off the top of my head). Some make use of prohibited Apple API's....again, how is it you think that happens?

They got through the because review apps, without code, can never reveal all there is to the app. Things can be hidden.

Now, as to why no malicious apps have been seen, there are numerous reasons. Sandboxing of the apps on the iPhone is a biggy. Ban hammer is a biggie. Law suits are a biggie.

AV scans are not. binary scans might be a small part.

Please make an effort to understand what you post, before you post it. Perhaps you are being overly emotional. A lack of understanding is OK. Just admit to it and move on.


WTF is with the ubuntu comments? As with many of your comments, they seem decidedly confused.

Oh, and what words were put into your mouth? Just because you write something, are shown it is blatantly wrong, doesn't then mean you didn't write it. Yuo could, as you have done here earlier, admit to the error. But claiming to not to have written it is silly...especially without pointing it out.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #116 of 139
1/26/10 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Way to play up the "jailbreaking is for piracy" line. That's just what Apple wants people to think. My phone is jailbroken mostly because the unlocking software also jailbreaks at the same time. All the apps I have that didn't come from the App Store are utilities that aren't on the App Store.

Justify it however you want you contribute to the problem. Go get yourself a google phone & let the rest of us who are happy with the features of iPhone live in peace.
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post #117 of 139
1/26/10 at 11:35am
You read way to much into things, you take a simple statement of fact and use it as a shaky foundation to build a castle of bulls**t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

See, that's the problem with your short, hit and run, little value posts. You generally argue against JBing. You back this up with little one liners like "JAILBREAKING ENABLES PIRATES" with the obvious implication that is is justification for your belief that it is wrong. You can try to feebly re-parse it and say that is not what you meant, but it obvious to all that read that is exactly what you meant.

Now, are all pirate's jailbreakers? sure. You can even try to make that your new line of argument. And all music pirates use computers and DVD drives. All movie pirates use DVD drives and computers as well. What's you point? That they use tools to perpetuate their piracy and that those tools are therefore wrong? Weak, weak argument. No surprise though. Almost as weak as you other arguments in other threads...like your insistence that VOIP not being available on the iPhone over 3G was somehow related to Skype being slow with their Nokia hardware...just barely worth reading but certainly worth responding to to prevent that sort of 'thinking' from spreading.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #118 of 139
1/26/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You read way to much into things, you take a simple statement of fact and use it as a shaky foundation to build a castle of bulls**t.

please.

Too late now.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

Reply
post #119 of 139
1/26/10 at 12:04pm
Without jailbreaking there would be very little or no piracy of App store Apps.

Therefore legitimate App users would have less ads to put up with as developers have to cover their losses.

There is that simple enough for you?

You seem to have a habit of taking things the wrong way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

please.

Too late now.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

Reply

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #120 of 139
1/26/10 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Without [CD ripper like iTunes from Apple] there would be very little or no piracy.

Therefore legitimate [consumers] would have less [price increases] to put up with as [record companies] have to cover their losses.

There is that simple enough for you?

Simple is so the right word.

It is very clear what you meant. It just had little value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You seem to have a habit of taking things the wrong way.

Nope. Just some people don't like it when it point out the problems of their thought process.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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