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McGraw-Hill CEO spills details on iPhone OS-based Apple tablet - Page 6

post #201 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

A glorified iPhone for $999 is exactly what people with too much money to spend are looking for.

Truly revolutionary stuff so far.

A touchscreen?!!!!!
An advanced e-reader? NO WAY!

Who's gonna pull out a maxi iPhone on the NYC subway?
Those Californians- what were they thinking?
post #202 of 235
I believe this will be a FAIL event.
post #203 of 235
When I was growing up, there was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon character named Quick Draw McGraw.

And he lives today!!! (Not sure about tomorrow.)
post #204 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Wow! Someone not get hired as a marketer and bitter?

Way to miss the point! I haven't tried to get a job as a marketer. I'm an engineer. Were I to be offered a job in market research, I would turn it down. Were I offered the choice between market analyst or jail, I might take jail. However, being an engineer, I am acutely aware that what *I* want and what the general public wants are often distinct and different.

I just wonder what it is about some people that makes them think that their off-the-cuff, self-centered market analysis is somehow better than Apple's. Apple has 30 Billion dollars in the bank, which means that not only can they afford to hire real market analysts, but clearly they've been doing something right already. Perhaps it's worth waiting to see what it is before dismissing it as unsellable?
post #205 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

iPhone OS is OS X - it's just not MacOS X

MacOS X uses Cocoa
iPhone OS uses Cocoa Touch

Which one did you think a touch based tabled would be based on?

iPhone OS isn't the best name since it runs on more than the iPhone- call it "Touch OS X" vs "Mac OS X"

i wish i could promote this comment
post #206 of 235
You Apple apologists are hilarious. This device will most likely be running a PA Semi processor so, no, it won't be running any of the current Mac OS X desktop applications. It would require, at a minimum, an Intel Atom processor to do so. If this device indeed is targeted for the iPhone OS, then this will be a cloud device with limited usefulness beyond Internet-based applications and basic file readers. It won't run iPhoto, iMovie, or any of the other popular Mac OS X desktop applications that differentiate Apple's devices from your generic Windows-based PC. Price point wise I think you are going to see a price in the mid $800s or low $900s. Remember, without a subsidy, the iPhone is a $600 device, and this device will be a lot bigger than an iPhone, hence its parts will be more expensive.

If this device is really based on iPhone OS (which I really hope its not) then a price war will break out with Linux-based devices that have similar capabilities and that can be sold at a much cheaper price. Also remember this device is coming out at a time when most people feel the economy is in the dumps and aren't willing to spend more than $300 on a computer (hence the popularity of netbooks).

People are looking for an all-in-one device, not another gadget that they will have to carry around.

I hope I, and the M-H CEO are wrong. I want this to be a full-fledged, first-class device on par with at least the Mac Mini (although with a dual-core Intel Atom and NVIDIA ION graphics). Otherwise it will be just another niche tablet device destined for the fate of its predecessors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the tablet will run the iPhone OS and not OS X. The tablet, by its very nature, is not suited to running programs that make sense on a laptop or destop.

It's simple, really. Set up the device to run Mac OS and inevitably there are fools out in the wild who try to run programs on the device which it simply can't run at all well. They will then complain that the thing isn't working well.

Instead, Apple will deliberately limit the tablet to the tasks for which it is suited, which are many.

Many have complained that if the Tablet is a Touch with a larger screen, they'll be disappointed. Prepare to be disappointed. But it should be noted that the good news is that being as the tablet will not be designed to replace a full-feature laptop, it will be priced accordingly, i.e. below $700.

My guess is a 7-inch screen to achieve the desired price point, as opposed to the rumoured 10-inch screen. $500 would be a good long-term price target with a price a little higher likely to start. Two memory capacities and you've got price points between the Touch and a MacBook covered.

Don't think of it as merely a bigger Touch. Think of it as a great portable device for browsing, reading, gaming, organizing, notetaking, viewing movies, sharing photos, and so on. This is all stuff that you can do more or less now with a Touch but the screen is just too small to do all of the above comfortably. The tablet would change all of that. Combine that with a price below $700 and Apple won't be able to build them fast enough.

Those complaining because the device can't run Mac OS will only be making fools of themselves in that it will in no way hinder this unit's marketability.

A jumbo Touch a game-changing device?

Bet on it.
post #207 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I believe this will be a FAIL event.

Nah, it will be a SUCCESS. Ironic, no?
post #208 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

In case you haven't found it, there is a special thread already set up for whining!

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=106528


Cool. Everyone please head out there at 11.01 AM PST.
post #209 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by trboyden View Post

You Apple apologists are hilarious. This device will most likely be running a PA Semi processor so, no, it won't be running any of the current Mac OS X desktop applications. It would require, at a minimum, an Intel Atom processor to do so. If this device indeed is targeted for the iPhone OS, then this will be a cloud device with limited usefulness beyond Internet-based applications and basic file readers. It won't run iPhoto, iMovie, or any of the other popular Mac OS X desktop applications that differentiate Apple's devices from your generic Windows-based PC. Price point wise I think you are going to see a price in the mid $800s or low $900s. Remember, without a subsidy, the iPhone is a $600 device, and this device will be a lot bigger than an iPhone, hence its parts will be more expensive.

If this device is really based on iPhone OS (which I really hope its not) then a price war will break out with Linux-based devices that have similar capabilities and that can be sold at a much cheaper price. Also remember this device is coming out at a time when most people feel the economy is in the dumps and aren't willing to spend more than $300 on a computer (hence the popularity of netbooks).

People are looking for an all-in-one device, not another gadget that they will have to carry around.

I hope I, and the M-H CEO are wrong. I want this to be a full-fledged, first-class device on par with at least the Mac Mini (although with a dual-core Intel Atom and NVIDIA ION graphics). Otherwise it will be just another niche tablet device destined for the fate of its predecessors.

Apps for the iPhone already allow audio and video editing to a degree and they are getting better. It is already possible to have a lite version of iMovie, iPhoto, Keynote, and other apps (hopefully Apple will release these today). Full Mac OS isn't necessary and it will be a powerful device that the Linux and other devices won't be able to touch for some time.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #210 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The iPhone and iPod touch were such failures.

WAT??
post #211 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by trboyden View Post

This device will most likely be running a PA Semi processor so, no, it won't be running any of the current Mac OS X desktop applications. It would require, at a minimum, an Intel Atom processor to do so. If this device indeed is targeted for the iPhone OS, then this will be a cloud device with limited usefulness beyond Internet-based applications and basic file readers. It won't run iPhoto, iMovie, or any of the other popular Mac OS X desktop applications that differentiate Apple's devices from your generic Windows-based PC. Price point wise I think you are going to see a price in the mid $800s or low $900s. Remember, without a subsidy, the iPhone is a $600 device, and this device will be a lot bigger than an iPhone, hence its parts will be more expensive.

Uh, you know that Apple has the source code to "iPhoto, iMovie, [and] any of the other popular Mac OS X desktop applications that differentiate Apple's devices from your generic Windows-based PC"? That there is core expertise on staff with a proven track record porting to other devices (PowerPC to Intel wasn't childs play until Apple made it childs play with the universal binary)?

In one respect you are right that they won't be the same as this device will need to use a touch-based UI (hmm, does Apple have a touch-based UI?). What you are missing is that Apple wouldn't release a tablet without thoroughly resolving the UX issues that have plagued other tablets (including the one Ballmer demoed at CES earlier this month).

Your comments on the pricing for this IMO are right on the mark. Without implementing a serious subsidy related to a 3G cellular data contract, this is not going to be the proverbial impulse buy that some are hoping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trboyden View Post

If this device is really based on iPhone OS (which I really hope its not) then a price war will break out with Linux-based devices that have similar capabilities and that can be sold at a much cheaper price. Also remember this device is coming out at a time when most people feel the economy is in the dumps and aren't willing to spend more than $300 on a computer (hence the popularity of netbooks).

People are looking for an all-in-one device, not another gadget that they will have to carry around.

The "Linux-based devices that have similar capabilities and that can be sold at a much cheaper price" all have sh1t for their UX design. It's not enough to sell a cheap tablet that nobody wants to use. The difference between this and all the other tablet form factors that came before will be the UX that only Apple seems to be able to consistently deliver*. All of the compromises that other manufacturers make wind up turning all of other tablets into crap gizmos. The difference is that Steve Jobs wouldn't allow that kind of device to ship with the Apple logo on the back.

* It's not that other companies couldn't deliver on this, it's just that they don't.

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post #212 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by palimatix View Post

WAT??

I was pretty obviously joking.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #213 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I was pretty obviously joking.

The SarcMark can't come soon enough, until then we'll have to settle with emoticons.

That was never an issue with Ethiopic languages, though I've never known an Ethiopian to be sarcastic, so it might be a bit of a waste in their punctuation.
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post #214 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by trboyden View Post

You Apple apologists are hilarious. This device will most likely be running a PA Semi processor so...

Um, nothing screams apologist than thinking that the well established and commercially viable chips are going to scraped for a some one-off design by a company Apple bought less than 2 years ago. The simpler outcome is that Apple uses the lower-power ARM Cortex optimized by the acquired staff of PA Semi, not a new chip that best ARMs from a company that has only been producing PowerPC.
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post #215 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodinho View Post


Steve
Sent from my iPad

Steve. Was this using safari that plays any codec. How much was it. Tell me it was not between $699-999, plus$30 a month for access and limited only to iTunes apps and movies. Thanks
Signed, many concern citizens.
post #216 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I believe this will be a FAIL event.

I know I know. We want isx lite. Please. Even if you read Klingon and have purchased everything from them, don't buy a giant tied down iPod no matter how shiny or sweaty it makes you. Lol
post #217 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Apps for the iPhone already allow audio and video editing to a degree and they are getting better. It is already possible to have a lite version of iMovie, iPhoto, Keynote, and other apps (hopefully Apple will release these today). Full Mac OS isn't necessary and it will be a powerful device that the Linux and other devices won't be able to touch for some time.

But will you be able to watch ABC Lost for free or MLB when they have free non YouTube games. Will it open pages, keynote.
post #218 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Or maybe his corporate attorney informed him of his mistake and he asked the networks to pull the interview.

Good point.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #219 of 235
pwned. McGraw-Hill not mentioned as one of the big 5...
post #220 of 235
Hmm, and yet there it is, an underpowered 1 GHz Apple A4 processor courtesy of PA Semi...


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Um, nothing screams apologist than thinking that the well established and commercially viable chips are going to scraped for a some one-off design by a company Apple bought less than 2 years ago. The simpler outcome is that Apple uses the lower-power ARM Cortex optimized by the acquired staff of PA Semi, not a new chip that best ARMs from a company that has only been producing PowerPC.
post #221 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

pwned. McGraw-Hill not mentioned as one of the big 5...

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post #222 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

pwned. McGraw-Hill not mentioned as one of the big 5...

Right! A lot of people on this forum who thought that all of this was a controlled leak from Apple need to take a long hard look at their belief-forming mechanisms. The whole "Dude, it;'s all a conspiracy ---- Apple is totally behind this, manipulating this CEO-dude," is a symptom of an inability to understand and make sense of the evidence before you. And if you can't do it with computers, what hope have you with the opposite sex!
AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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post #223 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Frak you.

That's frakkin' hilarious!
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #224 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

pwned. McGraw-Hill not mentioned as one of the big 5...

TOTAL PWNAGE mate.

You can just feel that McGraw-Hill logo that was supposed to be on that slide pulled at the very last minute.

And if you watch the keynote, there's a very nice little bit when Steve says "....Textbooks..." and then just moves on.

FRAK YOU MCGRAW-HILL!!!
post #225 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Right! A lot of people on this forum who thought that all of this was a controlled leak from Apple need to take a long hard look at their belief-forming mechanisms. The whole "Dude, it;'s all a conspiracy ---- Apple is totally behind this, manipulating this CEO-dude," is a symptom of an inability to understand and make sense of the evidence before you. And if you can't do it with computers, what hope have you with the opposite sex!

The opposite sex IS a conspiracy. To what ends I haven't figured out yet.
post #226 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

Steve. Was this using safari that plays any codec. How much was it. Tell me it was not between $699-999, plus$30 a month for access and limited only to iTunes apps and movies. Thanks
Signed, many concern citizens.

No Flash. No XVID. No MKV... ETC.
post #227 of 235
Once Steve takes a few walks in the Zen garden, and does ten breaths and some Asana they'll get back on pushing textbooks. Textbooks in the Education market will be a killer app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

TOTAL PWNAGE mate.

You can just feel that McGraw-Hill logo that was supposed to be on that slide pulled at the very last minute.

And if you watch the keynote, there's a very nice little bit when Steve says "....Textbooks..." and then just moves on.

FRAK YOU MCGRAW-HILL!!!
post #228 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodinho View Post

Just fire the guy.

Not that big of a deal.

Steve
Sent from my iPad

F****IN BRILLIANT!!! Ha Ha
post #229 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

The ? Of the day is, is this $999 hardware going to be able to stream content besides iTunes, QuickTime and YouTube? Or will we be seeing lots of squares unable to play results?

The squares are for your health. Blocking evils like Flash, ActiveX and WMV plug-in thingies.

Apple needs to sort out Flash by the middle of the year. They can't keep avoiding it. Though they still will sell millions and millions of iPhones and iPads.
post #230 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The squares are for your health. Blocking evils like Flash, ActiveX and WMV plug-in thingies.

Apple needs to sort out Flash by the middle of the year. They can't keep avoiding it. Though they still will sell millions and millions of iPhones and iPads.

Apple does not own flash technology, Adobe does, they need to get off their lazy butts and optimize it for mobile processors.
post #231 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by trboyden View Post

Hmm, and yet there it is, an underpowered 1 GHz Apple A4 processor courtesy of PA Semi...

Did we watch the same presentation? My scenerio, which you quoted, seems to be exactly what has occured. We won't know exacy how much Apple has done to that chip but the likely outcome is it's a tweaking of a Cortex-A8 or A9.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Right! A lot of people on this forum who thought that all of this was a controlled leak from Apple need to take a long hard look at their belief-forming mechanisms. The whole "Dude, it;'s all a conspiracy ---- Apple is totally behind this, manipulating this CEO-dude," is a symptom of an inability to understand and make sense of the evidence before you. And if you can't do it with computers, what hope have you with the opposite sex!

The lack of MH on the slide doesn't exclude the possibility that it still wasn't planned on the CEO's part. He could have excluded a long time ago for a variety of reasons. He wasn't expected to take the stage, but worst of all, the iPad won't be releasing textbooks without any dynamic annotation system. Maybe in v4.0.


PS: The iPhone prefers to auto-correct 'iPad' to 'upas'. I assume that will change with th next update.
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post #232 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

No Flash. No XVID. No MKV... ETC.

The MKV container would be nice but we both it won't ever show up.

XviD/AVI has even been dropped by Handbrake because it's so outdated so to expect that just isn't good. It's a bit depressing AVI is still used so much.

No on should expect Flash on a non-Mac. The reasons are more than clear for personal streaming video are clear and Apple's position is even clearer. We're seeing it being chosled at on the desktop, too. I don't think it'll be more than a couple years before the major sites are pushing HTML5 video tags as standard.
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post #233 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The MKV container would be nice but we both it won't ever show up.

XviD/AVI has even been dropped by Handbrake because it's so outdated so to expect that just isn't good. It's a bit depressing AVI is still used so much.

No on should expect Flash on a non-Mac. The reasons are more than clear for personal streaming video are clear and Apple's position is even clearer. We're seeing it being chosled at on the desktop, too. I don't think it'll be more than a couple years before the major sites are pushing HTML5 video tags as standard.

Flash on the iPad at least will be important for that one little niggle people will have with it. WMV and other AVI playback plugins be damned, but Flash and Flash video, it can be useful for the overall web browsing experience.

I of course really support HTML5 video and so on, but we know Flash is not going away anytime soon.

We'll see though, how users of the iPad, etc. will get by with or without it.

In some cases they might actually have a nice browsing experience on the iPad because they don't have all sorts of crazy ads and Flash gizmo thingies clogging up the page.
post #234 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Flash on the iPad at least will be important for that one little niggle people will have with it. WMV and other AVI playback plugins be damned, but Flash and Flash video, it can be useful for the overall web browsing experience.

I of course really support HTML5 video and so on, but we know Flash is not going away anytime soon.

Let's separate a Flash site from a site using Flash for streaming video.

Flash video streaming sites are beginning the end of their reign. It'll take awhile but the shift has started. With Apple and Google pushing HTML5 for video, among other things, it simply won't stand a chance, and I don't think anyone should rationally expect Apple to support Flash for video streaming.

Dynamic Flash sites are still going to be able to do a lot more than "webcode" can do and do it with considerably less effort for the developer. Proprietary Flash surely won't rule forever but the end hasn't even been theorized yet. Look at the HTML5 Canvas element. It's not nearly as easy to develop for as Flash, it's much more limited and there are no resource savings like there are with HTML5 video. I think it may even be worse for resources but it's hard to tell.

Quote:
We'll see though, how users of the iPad, etc. will get by with or without it.

After 2.5 years it doesn't seem to be as big of problem as people thought it would. Once Hulu announces the shift then I think the balance of power for streaming Flash video will be irreversible. Flash would eat through through those resources, affecting battery and load times so I think that end of it people are happy about, if they even realize that as effect.

Quote:
In some cases they might actually have a nice browsing experience on the iPad because they don't have all sorts of crazy ads and Flash gizmo thingies clogging up the page.

The longterm problem with Flash ads being removed is advertisers moving to HTML5, using CPU heavy elements like Canvas, accessing your GPU with WebGL and having to find a more complex system to turn off the ads. This is the unfortunate side-effect of the pushing out the popular plug-in.


PS: I'm sure this was mentioned more than once yesterday but I was offline... I think it's funny, in a somewhat pathetic way, that Jobs navigated to a site with Flash on it yesterday. The whole presentation seems like it was thrown together at the last minute without any rehearsing. He must have mentioned the accelerometer auto-adjuxting the orientation a half dozen times or more. Welcome to MacWorld 2007, Jobs!
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post #235 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Let's separate a Flash site from a site using Flash for streaming video.

If only Adobe would make the same distinction. <sigh>

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Flash video streaming sites are beginning the end of their reign. It'll take awhile but the shift has started. With Apple and Google pushing HTML5 for video, among other things, it simply won't stand a chance, and I don't think anyone should rationally expect Apple to support Flash for video streaming.

Dynamic Flash sites are still going to be able to do a lot more than "webcode" can do and do it with considerably less effort for the developer. Proprietary Flash surely won't rule forever but the end hasn't even been theorized yet. Look at the HTML5 Canvas element. It's not nearly as easy to develop for as Flash, it's much more limited and there are no resource savings like there are with HTML5 video. I think it may even be worse for resources but it's hard to tell.

After 2.5 years it doesn't seem to be as big of problem as people thought it would. Once Hulu announces the shift then I think the balance of power for streaming Flash video will be irreversible. Flash would eat through through those resources, affecting battery and load times so I think that end of it people are happy about, if they even realize that as effect.

It was nice to see Vimeo taking early steps towards H.264 and the HTML5 video tag as well. The tide may be turning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The longterm problem with Flash ads being removed is advertisers moving to HTML5, using CPU heavy elements like Canvas, accessing your GPU with WebGL and having to find a more complex system to turn off the ads. This is the unfortunate side-effect of the pushing out the popular plug-in.

When I do click on a Flash placeholder on my Macs (ClickToFlash on Safari, Flashblock on Firefox), I'm always pleasantly surprised at how reliably rick752's Adblock Plus Tracking Filter is at removing the underlying ad content.

As far as the Flash placeholders on the demo yesterday, I took that as a real-world demomonstration -- to those who understand the issue -- that Flash was not going to be supported, but without explicitly having to call out Adobe or Flash. And the NYTimes, etc. were watching the same demo and are getting the same message: for the iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch, its H.264 video or nothing.

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