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Apple wants to price hardcover bestsellers $13-$15 on tablet - WSJ - Page 2

post #41 of 156
1/26/10 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year.

I smile every time I see this.

Guess I'll just see if I can sell to the SIXTY percent who read two books or more....
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post #42 of 156
1/26/10 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Here's the breakdown:

Author – Creation. 8-15% Royalties.
Publisher – Being the Curator, Polishing, Manufacturing, Marketing. 45-55% (includes Author’s Royalties). Note that Printing accounts for just 10% of the book price.
Distributor – 10%.
Retailers – 40%. ..


So including Apple's supposed 30% take, minus printing, minus distibutor and retailer (brick & mortar) gives a discount of 30% from a paper book.

Of course the problem is the Publishers (now evil greedy cocaine using cousins of the heads of music labels) are next to fall to get lower prices for e-books.

Steve, you old dog you.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #43 of 156
1/26/10 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Also this is kinda funny in regards to this statement from Steve Jobs: It doesnt matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people dont read anymore, he said. Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people dont read anymore. -http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/01/steve-jobs-peop/#ixzz0dm2jKoeY

Not to mention all the Apple fanboys who stopped reading after Jobs said that!
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post #44 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm221 View Post

I'm picturing this as a great Magazine and Newspaper device... I'm picturing turning the page to a fully interactive Ad or commerical... then flipping to the next page to read the rest of US WEEKLY or SPORTS ILLUSTRATED...

This should be the most significant form of publishing for a tablet in my mind. I'm hoping for a quick change for many publications to electronic forms. Like many I don't see a huge attraction for a replacement of hardcover books magazines are a different story.

First; magazine articles are often shorter, so reading them isn't an issue. Further magazines are already integrating with the web space so this simplifies the evolution. Third; many magazines could vastly enhance thier content delivery with modern media.

By the way modern media is more than would and video. The ability to display drawings and graphics could add to many articles.
Quote:

This is going to be futuristic in how your interact with a digital magazine...

Yes absolutely huge. The trick is to get the right unencumbered standards in place and to get those standards quickly adopted. The key here though is that the publishers and Apple need to avoid screwing the customers with excessive pricing on electronic magazines.

Dave
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post #45 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's the thing, you can resell packaged media (CD, DVD, books). The electronic versions of each broke that model. And it required a more expensive player device. It always felt like a cost-shift, the way I figure it, the media industry seems to makes a bigger net profit and the user has to buy more expensive equipment to use it.

At least we got something in return for losing the ability to (legally) re-sell packaged CD music, namely the "ala carte" music buying which saves CONSIDERABLE amount of money vs a $20 cd with only two or three good songs on it.

Question is what sort of incentive are we going to get to switch from the resale value of a paper book to a e-book?
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #46 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


Question is what sort of incentive are we going to get to switch from the resale value of a paper book to a e-book?

Precisely the same incentive we get for buying a $9.99 movie from iTunes when it can be found in a 7/11 DVD bin for $4.99.....none whatsoever...except digital posterity and portability.
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post #47 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:12pm
i can't wait to pay apple a thousand bucks so i can pay verizon fifty bucks a month for the honor of paying only 15 bucks for a book i can get at the store for 12 bucks (with the 30% off coupons i get e-mailed to me weekly).
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post #48 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

I know you meant that as a joke, but this is a long established standard of right of first sale, and I bet you'll see the difficult in doing this as the primary reason all the publishers are jumping on the bandwagon.

No more libraries, no more resale. I love Apple, but I'm sad to see this happening.


Don't be sad, soon you'll be getting all the content free off the torrents and not paying a thing!

The answer to this loss of right of first sale is blatant piracy!

Send up the skull and crossbones!
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #49 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i can't wait to pay apple a thousand bucks so i can pay verizon fifty bucks a month for the honor of paying only 15 bucks for a book i can get at the store for 12 bucks (with the 30% off coupons i get e-mailed to me weekly).

But you paid a car company tens of thousands of dollars for the mechanism that gets you to the book store, did you not? Plus well over 50 bucks a month to the oil companies.

What's that you say? Your car also does other things? So it does.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #50 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm221 View Post

I'm picturing this as a great Magazine and Newspaper device... I'm picturing turning the page to a fully interactive Ad or commerical... then flipping to the next page to read the rest of US WEEKLY or SPORTS ILLUSTRATED...

This is going to be futuristic in how your interact with a digital magazine...

The love of ads has already started.

What is it about a fully interactive Ad that makes it a more appealing than any other Ad? It's all noise you have to suffer to get to the content. Interactive ads appear on the website of my daily rag from time to time. It's an irritant. You may like the latest Bud Lite ad but I'm far more interested in RTFA.
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post #51 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But you paid a car company tens of thousands of dollars for the mechanism that gets you to the book store, did you not? Plus well over 50 bucks a month to the oil companies.

What's that you say? Your car also does other things? So it does.

i don't own a car. i can walk to about five bookstores in less than ten minutes, and BN.com will deliver to me same day if i feel lazy.

my laptop and my phone do all the things i could possibly want an iGrand to do. true i watch movies and listen to music on my electronic devices - that's the only place you can do so. not true with a book... and i won't need to recharge a book to finish reading it.


Addabox: do you own a little tiny car for when you just want to go somewhere quick [maybe we'll call that car an iPhone] and a big old SUV for when you have a lot to do [maybe we'll call that a laptop], but still feel like you need another car [maybe we'll call that an iPad], not as tiny, in case you want to read a book while driving? nahh, nobody needs three cars, right?
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post #52 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Don't be sad, soon you'll be getting all the content free off the torrents and not paying a thing!

The answer to this loss of right of first sale is blatant piracy!

Send up the skull and crossbones!

Argh!! Shiver me timbers!!
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post #53 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:43pm
I will buy very few digital books at $14.99, knowing that I can get a hard copy for less than half that price, and also knowing that the book publisher is making an absolute killing, because once the book is digital, there is virtually no production cost. Their margins would be massive. It would be sickening how much money they would make. I think they would be better served selling the digital books for much less...say $4.99 max. They will sell many more books (higher volume), because any book is at your fingertips 24 hours per day. I may be wrong, but I just can't stomach these companies making soooooooooo much money when the only thing they need to do is have a single digital file that is available to millions of people world wide.
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post #54 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But you paid a car company tens of thousands of dollars for the mechanism that gets you to the book store, did you not? Plus well over 50 bucks a month to the oil companies.

What's that you say? Your car also does other things? So it does.

Seriously? There isn't any way you can compare this to a car. People use these things for a myriad of other reasons as needing to get to their job. People use cars because there is no suitable alternative.

If you need to get email, do spreadsheets, watch videos, etc. then you have your cellphone and computer. This device is replacing nothing excepts books, newspapers and magazines. These are businesses that are already falling apart because people can get that information for free. Unless you are a voracious reader there is no way you are going to make your money back on this tablet.
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post #55 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

The love of ads has already started.

What is it about a fully interactive Ad that makes it a more appealing than any other Ad? It's all noise you have to suffer to get to the content. Interactive ads appear on the website of my daily rag from time to time. It's an irritant. You may like the latest Bud Lite ad but I'm far more interested in RTFA.

One thing I didn't like about a lot of web sites is the ad media type doesn't match the content media type. If the site's content is mainly text and photos, I don't see why the ads should be animated, have audio or video. Magazines are mostly ads already, I hope they find a balance pretty quickly, because it sounds like it could get annoying very quickly.
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post #56 of 156
1/26/10 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

What? Higher prices for content? You've got to be kidding me! If Apple does that I don't think I'll buy... and many millions will continue to buy books elsewhere. No doubt Amazon would be putting its Kindle Store on the tablet, so if Apple does that, I believe they're toast when competing with Amazon.

I doubt it. Why? How many of us got money burning our pockets to buy a Amazon Kindle. The name sounds dumb. Whether it be called Apple iSlate or iPad I'm sold!
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post #57 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:07pm
Amazon is selling e-books at a loss because they want to expand and dominate the e-book market. There were e-readers before the Kindle but few people had heard of them. The Kindle ignited interest in e-books. Once the market expands Amazon will put up prices and/or force publishers to take a smaller cut allowing Amazon to profit.

BTW - I remember reading that Apple sold movies on the iTunes Store at a loss (I don't know if it is still true).
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post #58 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quamb View Post

Why the ".99" bs?? What is this, 1990?

Are we still all really so stupid that "12.99" seems closer to $12, not $13?

I thought it was closer to $12.10
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post #59 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:12pm
Ha. If you think the price of content is too high, wait until you find out how much the tablet will cost. Anyone still think it will be six hundred bucks? Nine hundred?

$1800 at least or greater. No way it will go cheap with all the research and development they must have in this thing.
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post #60 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

I doubt it. Why? How many of us got money burning our pockets to buy a Amazon Kindle. The name sounds dumb. Whether it be called Apple iSlate or iPad I'm sold!

The Kindle is no more a dumb name than the iPod originally was. Amazon has also done a great job of raising people's awareness of the Kindle.

Also remember, the Kindle is likely to be significantly cheaper than the Apple Tablet with a much longer battery life. E-ink displays are also easier to read than LCDs especially outdoors. If you can afford an Apple Tablet you should be able to afford a $259 Kindle and if all you want to do is read e-books the Kindle is probably the better device.

Long term, dedicated e-book readers will probably disappear and be replaced with e-book apps running on tablets. But in the meantime there is still a market for the dedicated e-book readers, just like there is still a market for the traditional mp3 players (eg iPod Nano) despite the availability of the iPhone / iPod touch which can play music and so much more.
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post #61 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

it's really not that high. actual hardcovers are 3 times that retail with discounts for perhaps the first two weeks.

the publishers have an investment in prepayment to the author and then often share the remaining profit with the author once that recovery is made. So it's not like it's all just money in the bank.

Once a solid market exists we'll likely get down to something like $10 for a 'new release' and $5 for 'backlist' with perhaps free first chapters being offered by publishers for some titles, especially newer authors.

It is a high price for something that you probably won't be able to re-sell or pass along to friends and family.
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post #62 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwhite1000 View Post

With my Kindle I pay ZERO for the 3g Sprint network to deliver books for usually 9.99 or less. Apple is going to require me to spend big bucks for a data plan and then charge more for book then Amazon does. Bad deal.

Is forcing anyone to do anything.
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post #63 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:42pm
As long as we can still read the Project Gutenberg titles for free - or for a "reformatting" cost of say $0.99 to $2.99 if necessary, I'll be happy.

There are thousands of books I can read for free on my iPod Touch. And Stanza is a very nice app.
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post #64 of 156
1/26/10 at 9:56pm
I honestly have a hard time seeing this as a Kindle killer or even serious competitor if the screen is not some sort of e-paper. I haven't seen an OLED screen so I can comment on eye strain, but if it's simply an lcd screen, what would separate this from reading on a laptop? Not much.

I am definitely in line for a tablet for other reasons, but I don't see this as a device I'd read on.
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post #65 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

I doubt it. Why? How many of us got money burning our pockets to buy a Amazon Kindle. The name sounds dumb. Whether it be called Apple iSlate or iPad I'm sold!

You think Kindle sounds dumb, but you're eager for yet another product name that starts with a lower case 'i'? Have you really thought about that objectively?
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post #66 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:13pm
I agree. I think Apple should ditch the i and go the route of the apple TV from here on in. Simply use the apple icon in place of the i for all products. I'd much rather have an apple tablet than an iTablet, The i is so last decade.
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post #67 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:17pm
[CENTER]Sure... those prices seem a bit hight when compared to other digital 'written' content providers, but they'll surely drop over time.

BTW - Here's sneak peek at the device itself:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/i...et/1#c25011074[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #68 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

I doubt it. Why? How many of us got money burning our pockets to buy a Amazon Kindle. The name sounds dumb. Whether it be called Apple iSlate or iPad I'm sold!

I don't know why you believe the Kindle's name sounds dumb. It is clearly a reference to throwing/burining your paper books for digital content instead.

There is nothing in a name. It is the substance that is more important. Right now I question the value of an Apple tablet against a Kindle which is only $250. I'm a book reader and could care less about newspapers and magazines. The Kindle serves this purpose better than a tablet.

BTW, where does Apple get the nerve of even charging the prices of a hardcover? If there is any avid book readers in this thread they would truly understand the difference between the a paperback and hardcover. The differences are the binding, quality of the paper, the smell, etc. If Apple believes they can get away with these prices then they have officially jumped the shark.
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post #69 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Sure... those prices seem a bit hight when compared to other digital 'written' content providers, but they'll surely drop over time.

BTW - Here's sneak peek at the device itself:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/i...et/1#c25011074[/CENTER]


BTW - more speculation and rumor.
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post #70 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumulator View Post

BTW - more speculation and rumor.

[CENTER]Possibly... or Possibly The Actual Device.

It's not like they're all of a sudden going to manufacturer the device 5 minutes before its official unveiling, so there surely must be some actual (photographic) evidence of its existence, and this might well be it.

We'll See Soon Enough...
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #71 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:41pm
Correct. But you said "Here's sneak peek at the device itself:" which implies fact more than rumor.

"We'll See Soon Enough... " <-- my point exactly.
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post #72 of 156
1/26/10 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

If this is true, what is Apple smoking. #1, I buy most of my books paperback at $7 dollars or so most of the time, odd that I pay $15 a book but regardless those books (especially hardcovers) can be resold. I already have question about the $10 at Kindle, Nook etc... Especially when you can't transfer the book to a friend when your done etc..

Also this is kinda funny in regards to this statement from Steve Jobs: It doesnt matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people dont read anymore, he said. Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people dont read anymore. -http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/01/steve-jobs-peop/#ixzz0dm2jKoeY

So I guess by raising the prices you are gonna get more book sales? I'm sorry that statement was a total Steve Ballmer, not Steve Jobs thing to say.


You are not paying close enough attention to ALL OF THE various uses that this tablet is going to be good for. Regular books is going to be one piece of the puzzle. That's all, one piece. Textbooks clearly dovetail with apple's focus on education and they clearly have the contacts to make that a big success for the tablet. Then you have to consider all the apps, internet, gaming, etc...The tablet is not just going to ben e-reader. It will likely be one helluva kickass e-reader but that is a small piece of the puzzle.
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post #73 of 156
1/27/10 at 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

I know you meant that as a joke, but this is a long established standard of right of first sale, and I bet you'll see the difficult in doing this as the primary reason all the publishers are jumping on the bandwagon.

No more libraries, no more resale. I love Apple, but I'm sad to see this happening.

I stated on a post 6 months ago, that I see the day, possibly by the end of this decade, that many titles will never see printed hard-cover or paperback versions ever.

Also in the near term, if the publishers want to, they will be able to offer their books as e-versions at or about the same price they do now for printed... and then raise the prices of the printed versions significantly. The price increase will be politicized to the tune of "saving the world's resources" etc., but for many titles, actually a good idea regardless of political BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jblenio View Post

I will buy very few digital books at $14.99, knowing that I can get a hard copy for less than half that price, .....

How do you know the prices will remain at that price-point for the printed version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamthompson3232 View Post

You are not paying close enough attention to ALL OF THE various uses that this tablet is going to be good for. Regular books is going to be one piece of the puzzle. That's all, one piece. Textbooks clearly dovetail with apple's focus on education and they clearly have the contacts to make that a big success for the tablet. Then you have to consider all the apps, internet, gaming, etc...The tablet is not just going to ben e-reader. It will likely be one helluva kickass e-reader but that is a small piece of the puzzle.

Absolutely correct

Only a few hours to go....
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #74 of 156
1/27/10 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I don't know why you believe the Kindle's name sounds dumb. It is clearly a reference to throwing/burining your paper books for digital content instead.

There is nothing in a name. It is the substance that is more important. Right now I question the value of an Apple tablet against a Kindle which is only $250. I'm a book reader and could care less about newspapers and magazines. The Kindle serves this purpose better than a tablet.

BTW, where does Apple get the nerve of even charging the prices of a hardcover? If there is any avid book readers in this thread they would truly understand the difference between the a paperback and hardcover. The differences are the binding, quality of the paper, the smell, etc. If Apple believes they can get away with these prices then they have officially jumped the shark.

Certainly any avid reader would know the greatest expense from softcover to hardcover: smell. It's grown in the Midwest, picked and packaged by migrant workers, transported by refrigerated truck (to preserve freshness) unloaded and stored in industrial vats awaiting careful application to high end books.
On a serious note, clearly apple would prefer the publisher set the price as low as possible. According to the pricing model presented here their cut doesn't change.
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post #75 of 156
1/27/10 at 12:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumulator View Post

Correct. But you said "Here's sneak peek at the device itself:" which implies fact more than rumor.

"We'll See Soon Enough... " <-- my point exactly.

He more than implied it. He states it as fact. Then some lame excuses.
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post #76 of 156
1/27/10 at 12:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumulator View Post

Correct. But you said "Here's sneak peek at the device itself:" which implies fact more than rumor.

"We'll See Soon Enough... " <-- my point exactly.

[CENTER]Ahhh...

The 'doubters' never tire -

Rest Well
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #77 of 156
1/27/10 at 12:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

He more than implied it. He states it as fact. Then some lame excuses.

[CENTER]If Logic = Lame in your world, then so be it.

Note: Some 9 hours and all will be revealed, at which point you'll re-evaluate your questioning nature, though I do hope that these content prices are lowered ASAP.[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #78 of 156
1/27/10 at 1:31am
What if... and I'm just thinking out loud here. What if the publisher's got it, and for the higher price over a Kindle book you got an Apple ebook that was DRM free?

Share it. Use it on any device. Back it up.

Would that be worth the $5.00 difference in price over a locked-in Kindle ebook?

Remember, Apple did the same thing with music...
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post #79 of 156
1/27/10 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

...That article also lists the cost estimates from other sites like Bookfinder:

Book Retail Price: $27.95.
Retailer (discount, staffing, rent, etc.) $12.58. Thats 45%.
Author Royalties $4.19. Exactly 15%.
Wholesaler $2.80. Exactly 10%.
Pre-production (Publisher) - $3.55. Thats 12.7%.
Printing (Publisher) $2.83. Translates to 10.125%.
Marketing (Publisher) $2. Thats approximately 7.15%.

Don't like these numbers? Google up some alternatives and we can discuss...

Happy to go with these numbers, time for some sums...

In order for the publisher and author to keep the same amount of cash from that $27.95 book as an eBook sold using Apple's existing 30/70 revenue split the cost to the user would be $13.91.

That's a little less than 50% of the hardback RRP (and yes, I know a huge amount of books are discounted, but it's still a saving to the reader).

That's the royalties, pre-production and marketing elements making up 70% of the sale price.

Whilst actual costs per book for the pre-production and marketing will vary dependent on volume sold, it is fair to say that on average if the price point is lower then more units would be sold, so those costs would reduce on a per unit basis. Basically (for the sake of simplicity), let's just say they remain at a similar % level of the cost of sale, regardless of the sale price...

So when the softback comes out, there's no good reason to thing that the e-quivalent iPad book wont cost 50% of that RRP as well.

The publishers see the same return on their investment, the authors see their royalties retain the same cash value and increase as a % of the sale price, and I get cheaper books.

As for Amazon losing money on every book sold, it is possible (I guess due to the wireless modem delivery system), but Apple make a slight profit out of serving up larger files at lower prices, books are gonna make them money.
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post #80 of 156
1/27/10 at 1:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Wonder how long it will take for Apple to undermine the middle men publishers who are taking the huge cut of the price?

How soon will it be that online services act just like publishers (like CD Baby does for music) and get independent content on the App Store/iTunes for a small percentage of the selling price?


It's like the music/iTunes/iPod thing all over again. No wonder Steve is happy, that old pirate!


The thing is though, as much as this is all a good thing at start, losing 30% of revenue on a book you wrote still seems like a fairly big number after a while, for transaction processing. Credit card companies take about 1-5% normally for basic transaction procession. For the publishers who stag their author/s and give them a stipend to write or whatever the publisher is taking a risk by writing some cheques and things maybe a large % is justified. In this case though its zero risk to Apple. I will be very glad for less middle-men but I was interested if anyone has data on what the current (old-school) cuts are in the publishing world?
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  • Apple wants to price hardcover bestsellers $13-$15 on tablet - WSJ
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