Apple wants to price hardcover bestsellers $13-$15 on tablet - WSJ - Page 3

Look, I'm as cost-conscious as they come, and moreso than most honestly.. but nothing here seems particularly outrageous to me (so far). The book pricing seems about right, unless what you want is a book for free, in which case, NOTHING will seem about right. (And I'll be honest, it sounds like that's what a lot of you are really getting at- you think you deserve to pay nothing for anything.) 10 bucks for the regular stuff, 12-15 for premium-- why is that so terrible, exactly?

Besides, as pointed out, if the pricing doesn't work, it will likely come down. I'm sure it won't be long before we see old, no-longer-in-demand titles for 5-8 bucks.

Also, for those of you taking all of your time arguing about the superiority of print over digital: Well sure, there are advantages to print. Just as there are and will be advantages to digital. So all that matters is what advantages you value more, and that's likely to vary from person to person.

Why an apple tablet over a kindle? Maybe no reason at all, big deal. In other words, if all you're looking for is a basic e-reader than the kindle might be what you want. Personally, I don't read much, so the Kindle isn't a worthwhile proposition to me, and since I read magazines more than anything else, the lack of color is a dealbreaker as well.

So again, this is going to vary from person to person. Why all up in arms about it? Take a deep breath. lol honestly. We don't even know anything for certain about this device until later today. If you want to freak out, maybe wait until all the facts are in at least.

One thing that does NOT make sense to me is AppleInsider's claim that "Amazon allegedly takes a loss on e-books that sell for $9.99. The company loses about $4.50 on each sale in order to maintain its dominant position in the market."

I'm not sure how they're getting those numbers, and I think this article explains the pricing situation a lot better: http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-...publishers-cut

Retailer's (Borders, B&N) typically get 40-45% of the "cut" from book sales.

So if you consider the Apple store as being the "retailer" for your ebook, only taking 30% is a bargain.

Also keep in mind that until recently, Amazon was getting 70% of the take for selling a Kindle ebook.

Exactly-- in fact, that's what they are *still* getting in likely the vast majority of cases, as they only introduced a new pricing structure within the past week! Which is why I'm so confused as to how AppleInsider has come to the conclusion that they're operating at a LOSS. The deal they gave publishers was a bum one, and according to the article I linked to, the new deal has quite a few wrinkles as well.

"Oh, can't wait! Oh, nearly faint! Oh, it's so expensive, I won't buy at that price! Oh, should be subsidized! Oh! Oh!"

What about the right of first sale on the pricey university texts? lets say for the sake of conversation that I am taking English 101 or some other pointless high school review that rapes your wallet the first 2 years of college -- I am obviopusly not going to need or desire to retain the texts from that course, today, I can sell my paper books to a reseller or directly to another student, can I do that with the ebooks? can I "share" them - I.E. let a friend access a book I bought for a few hours or days?

If I make notes in the margins, markup and highlight key text, etc which I assume will be a feature of this, do those elements transfer too?

What would really, really sell this to Higher Education students is if virtual copies of textbooks are sold at a considerably lower price than their printed counterparts (which often individually cost anywhere from $30 to $300). Combined with the sheer portability of a slate-style device and the right software, this could be a godsend for college classes.

Or how about this, rent me the text like in high school (at least in Indiana) you pay a flat "rental" fee and books are bought by the school and depreciated over the number of semesters that tehy are used, i.e. s $50 text used for 2 years, or 5 semesters, counting summer school, would be $10 depreciation per semester.

Let me rent the$50 book for $10 and then if I wanna keep it, I can come up with the other $40.

Also, I hope the paper option stays around in academia, some of the reference manuals and pocket guides I bought for classes are incredibly useful in that form and would be cumbersome in ebook or pdf form.

What is very nice for scholars about that is electronic copies never wear out...

But now indtead of a new edition every 2 years, they could just shuffle a few pages and do a new edition every semester...after all, your whole distrobution chain has been reduced to one "publish" button

Exactly. College and university text books that never get outdated and never need "reprinting" would be a boon to publishers, as long as the price in the App Store gets you those updates, like any other app there. I'd love to have updated versions of some of my fine art and geography text books (yes, I am that geeky) from the 1980s, please.

Uh huh. Now that's publisher fellows whose life becomes far easier. They probably have to think about subsidizing their tablet-compatible materials to schools.

Or the portable iTunes digital newsstand.

They are? The last few hardcover books I've bought are the last few Harry Potter books and the most recent Wheel of Time novel. The Potter books were $16-18 IIRC. The WoT book was $11.75. These are new as-they-are-released prices for hardcover.

My local Borders is usually selling the newest titles for 30% off publishers suggested retail, putting them fairly close to this area, too,

3x this price? You need to find a new bookstore to go to.

Don't worry, we are from the government, we are here to help...to nationalize your business... in the name of the people...with a new payroll tax...so everyone must have a iReader... and pay for $100 worth of e-books a week regardless if you can read or care too... and we need to nationalize Apple too... to keep it's cost down...it's a threat to national security...

Hugo Chavez was here...

Meant no offense at all, but I used to hear that there're not less than 3 ambulance vehicles from different services coming upon every emergency call in States.

There is also the added benefit of being able to get publisher corrections. Something they usually can't do until the next edition. I wonder how this might change the entire paradigm of the publishing industry.

The issue is bigger than the resale value. That is only one factor. The underlying issue is the First Sale Doctrine, which states that after the first sale of an item containing protected content, the buyer is free to do almost anything he wants with it.

That is the only reason why libraries are allowed to lend their books: the First Sale Doctrine. That is the only reason why Blockbuster can rent their DVDs: The First Sale Doctrine.

Publishers of all kinds have tried to legally get rid of the First Sale Doctrine. They have sued and sued and sued over the years, and have been successful in getting legislation passed to make, for example, it illegal to rent out CDs.

Now they are using DRM to circumvent copyright laws. If they are completely successful, libraries will become a thing of the past. Just say no to DRM. It has no advantages for consumers.

Obviously we need the option to rent a book, therefore equalizing the loss of the right of first sale when we buy a paper book and to justify the expense of buying hardware from Apple every few years.

Also we need the option to preview the book, at least the first chapter, to gauge it's worth.

The publishers are going to get tremendous volume, because the way the economy is now, a lot of people are hunkering down and staying at home. Kids are not getting jobs right out of college and moving back in with their parents, they need to keep their education level up.

So to keep themselves entertained, people are opting for electronic toys, computers, video games etc. Reading is good too, but requires spending money to browse Walden Books or taking a chance on Amazon titles.

If the iReader/iPad/iTablet will allow people to RENT books combined with a decent price for the hardware, it's going to sell like hotcakes.

Good point. I recently finished a book of nearly 800 pages in which the author went to great lengths to develop not only the many characters, but whole cultures including definitions, classes and so on in his apendicies. But because he had obviously reached some sort of print publishing limit, he was forced to introduce a deus ex machnina device and kill off all the characters in the last 10 pages without explaination or even a justification. A truely terrible end and very unsatisfying.

WIth this posiblity mentioned above, authors - in a simular situation - could easily fix such problems. IMHO.

I'll check them out from my local library.

Depends, I dare say. Personally, I loved insanely Google's initiative to deliver scans of pages of ancient manuscripts. Electronic versions can indeed be richer in features and sometimes more attractive (and affordable).

People consume music repeatedly, it's unlike the watch it once movie that no longer has much use to the individual after it's consumed.

When computers were able to read CD's, I understand completely the loss of a hardware lock to the Labels and Artists, and why they sued to prevent renting of CD's. Basically people would rent a music CD, rip and return. But the Labels brought it on themselves for charging outrageous sums of money for a cd with only one, two or three good songs on it. I'm sure the Labels blame the artists for not being able to come up with enough quality content to fill the set medium.

Books essentially fall into both categories, they can be read once and disposed, like a novel, or used all the time as a reference, like a cook book or text book. They also can be scaled, more pages or larger or smaller paper sizes, to meet the content, unlike CD's.

It's going to be interesting how Apple works this, I think a combination of buying and renting for every book will solve the problem.

Rent the book, read it through, if you like to keep it for a reference then buy it.


People tend not to steal content, unless the system is failed. If the publishers don't rent their content, it will be stolen. Plain as that. DRM isn't going to stop much.

I do understand your point, that the use of DRM is taking away the users fair rights and used to increase profits. But as long as the system works to what the majority of people are willing to pay, then piracy won't be too much of a problem.

The prices quoted in the article is way too much, unless there is a option to rent. If people are going to pay Apple's price for a iReader, they want access to a lot of inexpensive quality content or what's the use? Stick with a real book, stick it on a shelf and look like a intellectual or sell it.

We will see, in a few hours...

And what makes you think that you can't do that on the new iSlate?

All I got from this article that Apple is attempting to get publishers to list their prices for best hardcover seller e-books at $12.99 and $14.99. And if my memory is correct, everytime I walk into a B&N that would be at least half of what they are charging for a hardcopy.

Since the article is so definite, there is no suggestion that all other books will be required to match the 'higher' price. I would suggest that most publishers could sell 'e-reprinted' editions at much lower prices than their 'paperbacks' are currently listed and still get their current revenues.

Certainly, the availability of 'kindle' type books will still be available. However, being able to read them at higher resolutions and whatever Jobs has in store for us, will change the paradigm completely.

Remember that not many people buy first-editions, i.e., readers that have to get the first copy right off the press at whatever price are a different breed than most of us, and in particularly, those that lurk here. It should be noted that many medical journals release full text journals after 6 months for free. Up to then, you have to be a subscriber or pay a hefty fee, e.g., $30 to $60 for a single reprint.

Paying 13/15 dollars each to get a first edition of a bestseller, (however that is defined) instantaneously on day one, is an option that not everyone will take. But is it any different than being the first in line to see the latest 'blockbuster' movie at a mini-screen-multiplex theatre? Or waiting for a few months to buy a DVD or download it so each member of the family gets to see it for a lot less.

For me, e-books will be an option of consideration. Price, convenience, accessibility, immediacy of need, readability, portability, etc., will be determining factors. Currently, I have a home library of over 2,000 non-fiction books (mostly hardcover), and have been hard pressed not to print out any of the 50 or so 400-800 page softcover pre-reprint editions of computer programming/designing books/manuals that I have bought in the past year.

I am expecting that Jobs' 'latest creation' will pay for itself in printing costs in the first six months, now that I will buy all those other choices that I have been waiting for the publishers to finally release.

I never realised the B&N take was quite that high, and until the recent Amazon change hadn't noticed their crazy price gouging. I think what is positive from all this that the retailer margin is coming down altogether which means the sticker price overall should be able to drop a little as a result. Given book buyers seem to be fairly price sensitive (hencing discount rounds at bookstores), I think the drop in e-book prices must yield more book sales.

I had the same disappointment with Shogun. 1200 pages of setup, which wrapped up with a few pages of "...he won the war."

I felt cheated.

The problem with that is, if Apple's device takes off, e-books will become the norm and paper books will become more expense due to the lower sales volume. (Printing and distributing gets cheaper per unit in volume usually, I used to work as a print estimator)

More expensive paper books will cost more to Libraries, which are dependent upon City and State budgets, so less will be bought.

Libraries will switch to iReaders, mounted to cubical walls, requiring one to stay at the Library to consume the content.

No checking out of content will be allowed, because it will involve a expensive iReader. Perhaps the more wealthy cities will allow it, if you have a credit card.

It was legislation, and not a court victory. And it was back in the cassette era - long before multimedia computers were popular.

I'm not talking about piracy. I am talking about publishers accomplishing with software what they cannot do with copyright law: Killing pro-consumer copyright protections of consumers. (Of course, some publishers consider your lending a Steven King novel to your friend to be tantamount to piracy. They have tried to kill libraries, which were saved by the First Sale Doctrine.)

It will probably have a lot of other features, just besides standard bookmarks. Publishers may charge for a small fee for 2nd, 3rd edition update without buying the book new. Perhaps discussion board options, a small store front etc. This could really change things.

Why does everyone make a big deal if they're going to buy one or not buy one, it's your money, what do I care?

ebooks should not cost that much. They should be less than current paperbacks. After all, there are no materials involved. The book could almost go straight from the authors computer to your device. Skipping entire factories and distrubution chains.

Oh, Apple comes armed. Updates (and in-app purchases, heh) are the pleasure, when distributed via their stores. Business model and tech, everything is ready for immediate use.

À la carte pricing per book chapter. It's gonna make writers like Dan Brown and James Patterson a killing.

On a serious note, I recall reading that Charles Dickens sold books a chapter at a time with each one ending on a cliff hanger, not unlike our modern soap operas and primetime dramas with a season or series long hook. I think this medium will change the entire course of writing with authors releasing booklets or chapters at a reduced price designed to set you up for the next paid-for edition.

Educational content as well as newspapers/magazines will initially be driving the sales of the tablet. In that segment, there is virtually no price sensitivity and interactive content including search, graphs, ability to make annotations, etc. will trump over the paper versions. The ability to read non-educational e-books will be a nice addition but unlikely the driving force until prices come down significantly.

I can go to Sam's Club and get a physical copy for not much more and, as other posters have said, pass it on to family and friends or donate to the local library, etc.

...............But that mentality stands boldly in the face of today's highly-narcissitic 'i' generation who aspire to share nothing .................................................. ..................of value with anyone.

.....................................Personally, as an avid reader of actual books, I completely agree with you.

Nothing is still going to stop you.

However, you can't get the bestselling hardcover the day it is released.

You will be able to with the iSlate and still pass it around the family. You'll get it faster and it will be cheaper.

You will thus have another option. That is until the publisher begins to realize that he can make as much as he did before, faster and easier. That he won't be criticized for destroying the environment and that the Barnes & Nobles of the world are starting to close their doors. Worse, he may not be needed anymore because most of the new books are being distributed on-line by this new outfit called the iSlate Book Store and all his older books are being sold in the antique section of town, or available for free/membership fee on the iSlate eLending Library.

Who would have thought it would start by a guy dropping out of college with a core of ideas that only he could bare the fruit?

But I *can* often get a brand-new hardcover, the day it's released, if I pre-ordered it from amazon... at less than the prices quoted here often. I can certainly get it cheaper from a dozen places if I wait a week

I'm glad that e-reading will likely be one simple feature. A single app perhaps. I gave up on them long ago in favor of unabridged audio books. Some much more enjoyable and no eye strain.

Audiobooks ftw.

I LOVE audiobooks and listen to them constantly on my iPhone. We belong to Audible.com and use our $15 a month credit to purchase whatever books we need.

$15 price range for a good, first run book is cheap in the eyes of most book lovers. Hardcover books are much more expensive than that. In this day and age the cost of shipping or gas down to the book store probably adds a couple dollar savings as well.

I'm (still) listening to the audiobook version of Steven King's "Under the Dome" right now. It clocks in at just over 33 hours and I got it for $15. The hardcover was $30-45. Per hour of good entertainment (which this has been) the price has been ridiculously cheap.

Be nice if you knew something about publishing. Well known authors get millions before the first book ever goes on sale. Lessor known authors can get hundreds of thousands, and even new authors can get 10,000, more if the book looks like it will sell. It's about a dollar or two a copy, or more, depending on the deal. Hardcover books cost between $3 and $6 to print depending on size, quality, and size of run. Publishers have to make money on the hardcovers, and initial runs, whether they are digital as well, because there is no way to know in advance just how many copies will sell.

There's a lot involved in publishing a book, it's not just the cost of printing.

While, like everybody else, I'd like to see lower prices initially, Amazon's pricing isn't a long term solution. You can't lose $4 on every book you sell.

What will tell us what's going to happen long tern is when we find out what slightly older books will cost. How much when the paperback comes out? That's what really matters.

The fact that Apple is using the e-pub format is important. That makes it transportable. We'll have to see how that goes.

Because, as the NY Times article pointed out today, Amazon pays the publisher half the list price for a book. $14.25 for a book listed for $28.50. But they sell that book for $9.99.

Do you see them making money on that?