Apple's iPad promo materials misleading on Adobe Flash support - Page 2

Anyone that has programmed in Flash knows what a cow it is. It needs to be written from scratch (as well as other Adobe products).

And they better do something quick because they are about to lose out to HTML5.

Thank god I downloaded the presentation last night before Apple changes it. This is right up there with switching frames on the Zapruder film! Right out of "Blow Out".

Sorry but when S Jobs' presentation itself gets littered with boxes of unavailable flash content you know something is not right in the Apple controlled Universe.

Possibly.

But if advertisers want to place ads on the iPad, all they need to do is push HTML5 content into those holes instead of Flash. But I still think it would be amusing if Apple sold their own adverting to replace the flash ads.


The fact of the matter is that Flash is used for a number of solutions, but technologically, is not great at any of them.

For video streaming it fails to exploit hardware compression (and as far as I can tell) hardware scaling. It also fails to sync properly so flash video is prone to tearing artefacts.

For vector animation it is incredibly CPU intensive. And always has been. For mobile users this is a drag because one flash ad can burn more battery than a video-game.

And then there is the interactive element of Flash for the little web games.

Certainly HTML5 seems to offer a better solution for both video and vector animation. The death of Flash seems long overdue.

C.

I hereby completely change my stance regarding Flash. WE MUST HAVE FLASH NOW! DAMN YOU APPLE, DAMN YOU TO HELL!












[for the sarcasm-impaired, yes, this is sarcasm! Besides, lotsa porn sites support downloads in what they call "iPod" format. Just Google "free iphone porn".]

Download Firefox and install the NoScript add-on, it blocks all scripts (including Flash) until you click on them or allow.

You can also make the Flash permissions permanent or temporary on a per site basis.


Other great Firefox add-ons: Ad Block Plus, BetterPrivacy (clears out tracking Flash cookies), FastestFox (pre-loads the next Google search results on the same web page for one), FlagFox (tells you the country the site your visiting server is on), Ghostery (blocks web bugs), MorningCoffee (one click loads your favorite sites), NoSquint (remembers your page zoom levels per site), RequestPolicy and GoogleSharing are also good.

I just wish that the things that are the most successful (i.e. everything listed by the Adobe CEO) had their own app that allowed them to work w/ Flash as an inset or something.

I don't want Flash in my Safari but I sure as hell want Hulu, ESPN and Facebook games. I can deal without ESPN but the only reason I ever lug my laptop around 50% of the time is for Hulu and Facebook games. If the iPad did those things I'd be tempted to buy one - otherwise I'd still have to lug around my laptop.

I.E. when they make a hack that will install flash in Safari I might get one but, as I said, I'd prefer dedicated apps so I don't have all the other worthless flash things popping up on my screen.

my grandmother doesn't know what a "web browser" is, but it doesn't mean she's not using it.

i don't like flash, but so far nobody's decided on html5 video codecs (firefox wants ogg, safari/chrome want mpeg, microsoft wants html4) so good luck viewing any online videos without it.

clearly apple just wants flash to die (thank you) and with their commanding mobile influence html5 might just get the boost it needs. until everyone agrees on a codec flash is here to stay.

i understand that apple may feel the iphone is too slow to run flash effectively, but for the A4 processor based iPad it should be completely possible.


which leads me to my last point...the only disappointing thing about the iPad to me is that it intents to be more of a computer, but it's not quite at that point where applications are developed freely by everyone...everything still has to go through the app store. i would love a tablet computer like the iPad but apple doesn't think anything under $1000 should act like a full laptop.

the full potential of the iPhone OS won't be realized until apple combines the flexibility of mac os with the interface innovations of iphone os

Like it or not, but Flash is a reality on the Internet. In the promo video, Apple repeatedly talks about the iPad as the best way to surf the web.

People may have accepted missing Flash on the smaller screen of the iPhone, but I think it will not be accepted on the iPad, a full-size web device.

/Daniel

Yeah sure, Steve Jobs showed websites with Flash video on purpose. Who the heck wants free internet video anyway? It's not the Steve way so we are better off without it, until he tells us otherwise. For now, if we want video, we should pay for it through itunes.

Apple already make platform specific versions of Flash (for content creation) and the Flash Plug-in (for delivery) What are you talking about? Most graphics and web development agencies use the Mac platform, so it's not exactly "no money" we're talking about.

The flash plug in, proprietary, locked down technology, created by Adobe (well, currently 'developed' by them at least) is for Adobe to sort out, not Apple.

People rail against Apple for being 'closed', but rally to the cause of Adobe - are you serious?!

It's funny, i've got Youtube open in another tab, it's not costing me anything and I'm watching video without flash? Care to explain your statement? This is an issue of stability, standards, quality and accessibility, not one of profit for Apple.

If apple allowed the flash plug in on the iPod Touch, iPhone and the 'pad the battery life would be around an hour, the devices would be hot to the touch and crash every ten to fifteen minutes.
That is the fact. That is the issue.

It is for Adobe to fix their software, not Apple.

One, it could be that Apple Marketing team missed it and had a false advertisement.
Two, Steve Jobs didn't say anything about final OS and Flash was in testing.

Right now it is 3.2 Beta, so Apple can drop features and add-ons at anytime. That's why there's a 60day wait, because Apple wants developers to give feedback and make insane Apps.

Hard to believe Adobe would be criticizing any company about DRM.

Ermm - youtube is already doing it?

I like Apple and respect Jobs a lot, but not having Adobe Flash on the iPhone, touch, and iPad are plain silly. HTML-5 will be great, but it's not ready for prime time and won't be for probably 3-5 years as browsers and developers get up to speed. If you have the technology at your finger-tips that works and will give users a full experience, it's pure ego and stubbornness not to use it.

As for the photos on Apple's site, that's is misleading and wrong, isn't that false advertisement?!! They are liars in that regard.

Yes, and fifteen years ago all web content was barely formatted text, ten years ago badly animated gifs, five years ago everything was drowning in unnecessary flash content.

The internet is moving on. Flash was never intended as a way of presenting video, it sucks at it pretty badly. Adobe - sort your plug in. Browser developers - stop holding up new standards and let the world move forward - especially internet $&*(££&^ explorer!

It DOESN'T work, that's the point. It's not stable, it consumes up to 100% processor power, it causes over heating and drains battery life, while causing hangs and browser crashes.

People are pretty dumb for the most part. What do you expect?

Uh fact? There is no Flash on the iPod. Don't you mean speculation? And yeah, YouTube is Flash too, so care to explain yourself?

I think you may be mistaken, but I'm not positive. If you look at the pictures they both appear to be in Safari.

Only as a beta in a very limited trial basis. It is a step in the right direction, but if you're going to say something to try and one-up someone, give all the details and facts.

I am not a fan of Flash but I don't hate it either, since it is what brings so much of the internet video to my computer but I don't know why you don't think it does not work? I catch football highlights on NFL.com every week and it works fine for me. Watched an episode of 24 from Hulu too. If and when something else replaces Flash, I'll watch using that too.

Yet almost every other smart phone and tablet has Flash and it works. You're telling me Apple with all their genius can't come up with a way to make it work for them? Listen, I really like Apple a lot, but I'm not bias and blinded by my "like" of them. You may not like Flash and that's your right, but it seems to work every where else if developed intelligently. I work in Flash all the time and never had any problems on any sites I post it, and I work for a major company and no problems on our site.

Porn sites attack through Java, Javascript, Flash and anything else they can get their hands on, including Safari exploits. So the iPad will not be immune.

If your viewing porn on your main machine, your a fool, if you use your real email with them or give them a credit card number your a bigger fool. If a exploit occurs, at the very least, all your unencrypted files are being uploaded and or read. At the worst, illegal pictures are being stored in your hidden caches or folders unknown to you, people have gone to jail for that.

Use a cheap Dell netbook with Ubuntu, it comes with Firefox, install Flash and install NoScript, turn off Java and Javascript. Keep the Dell in a safe hidden place and use it like you would a stack of porn magazines, in private. Learn how to reinstall the OS, or better yet, clone it from a clean backup after every use.

Your best to use a proxy server or a open wifi to mask your real IP address, as this can be used to find you. It's no guaranty from the government who has legal powers, but it does help against those who don't.

Drastic measures I know, but there is a abundance of great quality adult material online and a abundance of masterminds with agendas, countries and people that hate your country or people and wish to set you up or steal your identity. Ubuntu Linux has little market share, thus little exploits since it's a permisisons based OS like Unix and OS X. Also your flushing your entire OS routinely, little chance anything unwanted is going to remain.

On my ipod touch there is an option to turn javascript, popups, plugins on/off. Apple could do the same thing for Flash if it really wanted to. Heck, they could make those vocal Flash haters very happy by having it off by default. But free Flash internet video isn't the Steve Jobs way.

Sorry... but WHY would the games not work? I'm not a developer, but if: click, drag and move actions are initiated by touch, or by mouse... what does Actionscript care? A tap is a click, a hold and drag is a move.

I respect your point of view... but with clicktoflash-functionality, which Apple is certainly capable of, I can see Flash 10.1 coming to the iPad.... however, NOT to the iPod or iPhone due to performance issues (or so Apple would say).

One thing people don't address is Flash Games or other interactive content. Can HTML5 replicate that experience? If so I would love to see an example website that has a game that is 100% HTML5.

Also of note is that HTML5 is not a standard yet, won't be for atleast 3 years and that the current version that Apple is pushing is just a way for them to push H.264 which I imagine they may profit off (thats the sticking point in the standard negotiations, as some people rightly want any video codec to be royality free). In addition, the worlds largest browser IE does not support HTML5, and probably wont until the standard is done.

So I guess Apple wants websites to create two versions of their sites, one for legacy HTML4 and another for appleHTML5. And even when HTML5 becomes an agreed standard, you can force users to upgrade even from older versions of other browsers beyond IE that don't support the final spec properly. So yes, Flash will be useful for years.

Not to then also mention if games can be created in HTML5, and the millions of flash video and games that won't automatically convert over to HTML5.

Imagine the backlash if Microsoft was forcing a new unfinished standard and locking out Flash from Windows 7 etc... But its okay for Apple to do this. And the iPhone was one thing, but this will be the first full screen browsing device that doesn't have Flash. Sure I hate it, prefer silverlight and sure I will prefer HTML5 for video when it comes out. But Flash is basically apart of the HTML4 universe.

Not that people should be forced to use flash either, have a setting to enable it or disable it. Even force people to click to load the flash element they want. But this will come back and bite Apple. Because, yes people will return the iPad if the find their favourite website doesn't work like they want it to. And people don't care about the technicle aspects or that Apple blames the webmaster. They just know it worked on their other Mac/PC and doesn't work here.

Completely agree! They are making pressure to put flash out of the way and they are going to make it.

Jeez 'Trip'... ya make me want to go out to a sleazy bar and pick up a 2-cent ____, (amoung other associated nasties) rather than use the safety of my computer for "frivolous pursuits".

That side of the net is the equivalent of an "escort club" vs. the "red-light district". Quality over quantity. A Mac user should be well versed by now which is the best way to go.

But yes... another reason why Apple should add Flash. Porn is the shaker and mover in the tech industry. Heck... it built the internet!... won the VHS-Beta war...won the DVD war...and now BR over HD. Sad to say... but all true.

The number one issue why system browsers crash is Flash. Apple does not support flash because it based off and when the 3rd party company wants to update their plugin. HTML5 is a better and open source format that is a lot better than flash.

Next time safari or other browsers crash check you crash logs. or filter the logs and look for flash and see if you have been plagued by these crashed.

Adobe not writing there apps in Coco but they are still using Carbon which apple has been moving away from that 32 bit structure.

Flash also uses more processor and more processor = less battery life.

How can you have a lawsuit for an unreleased product that couldn't order if you wanted to?

Strange. It works fine on every PCs I own and no problems yet on my mobile device. Don't tell me a huge company like Apple can't figure out Flash -- if there's a will, there's a way.

See. This is a reason why Apple fans have bad rep: some Apple fans are blinded by their love for the company and, moreover, they spread fallacies and FUD in an attempt to support their tainted opinion.

Welcome to the good ol' US of A...

Developers should have gotten that message a long time ago, they should always provide alternate content for devices where flash is not enabled. As far as advertisers are concerned, they are getting ripped off since the ads are usually brokered and neither the the sites running them, the creators, or the broker want to pay extra for an alternate version. Also websites can't tell if click to flash is installed or not to trigger the display of alternate content.

I dislike ads as much as the next person especially flash ads since it makes it difficult to read when things are flying around the page, I by no means want to see flash banned because I use it quite a bit for industrial and scientific work which I won't go into in details of but there is nothing to replace flash for what I do.

Video can easily be delivered in some standards based format so that is something that Adobe should not expect to last much longer as flash but of course that depends entirely on the cooperation of the video content creators. I think flash will be around for a long time sort like fax machines.

I agree, he hovered on it several times as if to say 'See, it's not there'. If it had not been intentional, he would have switched pages sooner.

Oh all this time I thought it was Windows?

Click fine, but drag is considered a pan, and there is no hover. Touch screens make quite a few compromises in the user experience. Disregarding Flash entirely, most of the mouse actions in Javascript are ignored as well.

BTW I did notice that in the iPad calendar app it was running full screen and so in that case a drag was considered a hover, but that would not work the same way on an iPhone since it could not run full screen. There are a number of differences even though they both run iPhone OS.

It just works!
\

Key word: PCs, aka Microsoft Windows.

Would be nice if they optimized it for OSX and others.

While 10.1 is optimized for various platforms, ARM Tegra and others, it still is redundant. YouTube uses h.264/aac, so why bother with Flash for that when it already is built in to the itouch/iphone/ipad?

HTML5 aside, all you need is a quicktime tag to make it work currently.

However, there still is all that vector stuff and other stuff flash does, like preventing ppl from copying streams that HTML5 doesn't address. What then?