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Apple to target iPad at business users through new features - sources - Page 6

post #201 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Well, if it wants to expand outside of Mac-centric 5% of the world wide IT market, iPad does need to flirt - and shamelessly! - with Windows environment.

Think of it. iPod would be nowhere near to current domination without fully functional (albeit crappy) iTunes for Windows. Likewise iPhone - of 8 individuals I know owning iPhone, all of them are syncing it with Outlook, half of them with Exchange (meaning they are using iPhone as their work phone). Without Windows connection, I doubt any of them would have iPhone - me and my wife included.

You're right and it does. Keynote opens, edits, presents and saves PPT files. How you get them there is unclear (email of course but other direct means too I hope). All the current Windows iTunes implementations will just as happily enable the iPad.
As for share, Apple no longer thinks about Mac mkt share as a benchmark (which is creeping towards 10% in US units and vastly more in $ value) or a limitation but about total segment share - iPod 70%, iPhone 20%, iPad ??% of ?? - tablet market (it will have >50% immediately) or what other segment? Apple will never be satisfied with 5% of anything again it seems and are fixing that every quarter with the Mac.
post #202 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

They won't even let developer's use the 30 pin port to create an external hardware USB path.

Really now? I recall that resolving that issue a year ago with the iPhone OS 3.0 SDK.
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post #203 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I agree about the USB port. What is it with Apple and their disdain for IO?

They won't even let developer's use the 30 pin port to create an external hardware USB path.

Not sold on the need for a camera or iSight, although it would be a cool way to have video telecons. Maybe in a future higher end model...

Here's hoping multiple windows can be open simultaneously and referenced in order to move data from an Excel cost worksheet to a Word doc where we would be creating a quote or proposal, as an example.

It would be great if the print engine could also spool out PDF's, like OS X does. That's a very big deal for business users.

I have tried to use Keynote, it's very nice but everyone I must communicate with has PowerPoint. So the file type to share is the .ppt; I don't like it anymore than anyone else here but that's just the way it is. I've exported from Keynote to PowerPoint but it almost always gets hosed in some fashion or form. It doesn't "just work." Rather than hamstringing iPad early on, why not just support Excel, Word & PowerPoint? It wouldn't need to be full gesture support, just use the keypad or keyboard for composition, and a finger as a mouse/pointing device. Make it easy on the business customer.

There are a lot of hurdles and questions that still have to be rung out. It looks to me to be a nifty, good looking device that's cleverly crafted to be able to dig into people's wallets, specifically targeting them for media sales.

USB is far less relevant for an iPad since everything syncs through iTunes on a PC/Mac. Netbooks sync to nothing unless you have deployed some cloud solution (tiny minority of the market) . For those remaining who need the away from PC/Mac sync there is an adapter. That is a much smaller segment.

Few people are going to create on the ipad from scratch (where most of the hosing comes from when you do something without a parallel in PPT). Most will get a PPT from someone/work and need to make a minor edit before presenting or tweak some text/add some notes at home the night before submission etc. which rarely hoses the export (in my experience). Keynote will be fine for all those corporate uses. Plus you can do simple home/hobby/charity/church projects on it that don't need to become PPTs in the future.
post #204 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Really now? I recall that resolving that issue a year ago with the iPhone OS 3.0 SDK.

Not for hard drives.
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post #205 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I have tried to use Keynote, it's very nice but everyone I must communicate with has PowerPoint. So the file type to share is the .ppt; I don't like it anymore than anyone else here but that's just the way it is. I've exported from Keynote to PowerPoint but it almost always gets hosed in some fashion or form. It doesn't "just work." Rather than hamstringing iPad early on, why not just support Excel, Word & PowerPoint? It wouldn't need to be full gesture support, just use the keypad or keyboard for composition, and a finger as a mouse/pointing device. Make it easy on the business customer.

To "just support" Office applications, iWork would have to become feature compliant with Office applications, which means crippling Keynote so it's compatible with the weaker PowerPoint, and changing the way Pages works to make it more similar to Word. It's not just about file formats, not hardly. I say no to all of that. I want an actual alternative that's better, not a clone of something crappy.

Of course if Microsoft wanted to create iPad versions of Word and PowerPoint, I don't see anything stopping them, except perhaps pride and ability.
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post #206 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Not for hard drives.

I think that is a limitation of locally attached external storage, which appears to be allowed by the iPad's OS.
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post #207 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

USB is far less relevant for an iPad since everything syncs through iTunes on a PC/Mac. Netbooks sync to nothing unless you have deployed some cloud solution (tiny minority of the market) . For those remaining who need the away from PC/Mac sync there is an adapter. That is a much smaller segment.

The discussion wasn't about syncing, it was about external volumes. It would be nice to be able to plug a USB thumb drive in and capture a file. I don't want an iPad if I always must rely on iTunes on another computer, that really dumbs down the device.

Quote:
Few people are going to create on the ipad from scratch (where most of the hosing comes from when you do something without a parallel in PPT). Most will get a PPT from someone/work and need to make a minor edit before presenting or tweak some text/add some notes at home the night before submission etc. which rarely hoses the export (in my experience). Keynote will be fine for all those corporate uses. Plus you can do simple home/hobby/charity/church projects on it that don't need to become PPTs in the future.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why then was Schiller's presentation really focused on Keynote file creation? The whole whiz-bang gesture invention is specifically targeted for creation on iPad.

I grew so frustrated trying to share Keynote presentations (as PowerPoint files) with the corporate Windows world, I just gave up. It doesn't really work very well - unless - you keep each Keynote slide totally barebones, no transitions, no special effects, plain background, and only use standard fonts and colors. Then it will export, although even then it sometimes gets a bit skewed. It's usable under these conditions, however.

I'd rather see this thing with both hands free, as it were, rather than being introduced with one hand already tied behind it's little 9.7" back :-)
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post #208 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Well, if it wants to expand outside of Mac-centric 5% of the world wide IT market, iPad does need to flirt - and shamelessly! - with Windows environment.

Think of it. iPod would be nowhere near to current domination without fully functional (albeit crappy) iTunes for Windows. Likewise iPhone - of 8 individuals I know owning iPhone, all of them are syncing it with Outlook, half of them with Exchange (meaning they are using iPhone as their work phone). Without Windows connection, I doubt any of them would have iPhone - me and my wife included.

Do you really think that Microsoft technologies will be with us forever? Because, if it is not, then the argument that Microsoft technologies should be kept as standard because it is currently predominant is not only a backward view of technological development, it is also dangerous.

Where would Google be, if we mandated that the one predominant MS/Yahoo(???) search engines were taken simply as standards?

Technologies evolve, those competing must be allowed to co-exists and battle it out. Sometimes, it is not even the best technology that wins. There are other contributing factors that may have contributed.

Whatever the basis of the iPod popularity, it cannot be denied (even by Gates or Ballmer during interviews) that currently the iPod/iTunes ecosystem has about 70% of the digital music market, and the predominant hardware beating the Microsoft's Zune. The argument that its success rested on Windows is a false argument. The same can be said of Microsoft. Where will Microsoft be if IBM has not given it a break, and Bill Gates was not savvy enough to understand the significance of its intellectual property? Where would Google be if Yahoo had not given it a break as its default search engine?

A technology company that ignores the prevailing technologies and are too far advanced from what is acceptable may likely not make it. At the same time, a company that does not go beyond current standards may be swept to oblivion, if the standards are toppled.

No one can deny that the iPhone has changed the dynamics of the smartphone and the Apps business -- everyone tried to copy them in an attempt to catch up.

Bill Gates has talked about tablet mobile computers since the early years of this century, and even produced demos, abd actually had some early very costly versions on the market? [Of course there was Newton(?) before that.]

How come that it required an Apple iPad -- in spite of all its perceived imperfections -- to re-energize the Tablet technology? Didn't Ballmer not made the first demo and all those PC tablets during the early part of this year? Was it all really the mystic of Steve Jobs that they have to await the Apple version?

Whether Apple is 5% or whatever you want to base your stats from, it cannot be denied that it has come out with innovations that captured significant number of people, changed technologies or how an industry is evolving (iPod and music industry, iPhone and those that tried to emulate it in smartphone, Apple Store and retailing).

In business, and especially technology centric business it may not always be the domination (market share) that will dictate your profitability or survival. However, you view Apple, it cannot be denied that it is only among the few technology companies that remained profitable in the worst recession during the past 30 years.

What you deride as 5% of world market share still can boast a cash reserve of almost $40Billion with no debt. Can you say that of Microsoft, HP, Dell, Lenovo, or any other technology company?

Derisions, such as terms like "fanboy", are the last resort and argument of people who cannot summon more logical rebuttals.

And those who use such labels seem to suggest that only they can be right, and all those hundred millions of iTunes clients, more than 70 million iPhone/iPod users must be fools and could not think for themselves.

Such flawed arguments are the epitomy of arrogance, if not more revealing of other personal flaws,

It is very revealing of a person's character when (s)he thinks that his view must be right and everyone else who has a different view must be wrong or misguided.
post #209 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

The discussion wasn't about syncing, it was about external volumes. It would be nice to be able to plug a USB thumb drive in and capture a file. I don't want an iPad if I always must rely on iTunes on another computer, that really dumbs down the device.



This doesn't make sense to me. Why then was Schiller's presentation really focused on Keynote file creation? The whole whiz-bang gesture invention is specifically targeted for creation on iPad.

I grew so frustrated trying to share Keynote presentations (as PowerPoint files) with the corporate Windows world, I just gave up. It doesn't really work very well - unless - you keep each Keynote slide totally barebones, no transitions, no special effects, plain background, and only use standard fonts and colors. Then it will export, although even then it sometimes gets a bit skewed. It's usable under these conditions, however.

I'd rather see this thing with both hands free, as it were, rather than being introduced with one hand already tied behind it's little 9.7" back :-)

USB - it would be nice but because of iTunes syncing it is not very commonly needed unlike on a netbook. You are an advanced user so you would stretch the iPad - the millions of basic users will not and will get all content through iTunes. The feature set is made for them not you or me.
Keynote/PPT - You are right which is why I gave my examples. Keynote creation is fine in a keynote only world (many smaller/home environments) but are you seriously going to create a full corporate PPT presentation on an iPad unless you really have to (super rare). We have to use standard corporate templates anyway which work fine under Keynote.
post #210 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Remember going to have this great new UI?

Perhaps you should watch the presentation that shows off a very distinct UI than the iPhone and read the articles detailing printing and networked folder access. I stated it would be based on the iPhone's OS but be idealized for the device. I also predicted it would run iPhone apps out of the box and be an accessory device for your PC, not a replacement. Didn't you say it run out of the box Mac OS X?

The only part I got wrong about the OS was the name and the Home Screen setup. I hope that the jailbreak community makes a nice side-edge unlock and app selection, but that is for a different conversation. Perhaps most telling is that unlike the trollish posters I don't go around posting absolutes willy nilly.

PS: My response to you is an attempt to get you to spend your Friday evening perusing my posting history in an attempt to prove me wrong.
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post #211 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Brushes is nice if you're a graphic designer or an artist. But architects, engineers and drafting based professions need precise line work, which would require an App i've never seen or a stylus based app that is yet to be created. WE work with pens and paper. much more technically based drawing than brushes does.

As for import/exporting and printing documents into iWork, i'm not sure how that works. it must be some kind of "Finder" app that i have yet to see. Unless you mean through email or something? But how anoying that would be in an office setting if you had to email your iPad documents to upload to iWork. I guess i'll just have to read up on it. I'm just going off what i saw in the Keynote. And i wasn't specifically talking about printing from iWork. i didn't see a print button/icon in the Safari App. either.

No need for names (i.e. "Braindead"). Your opinion looses its relivence when you call people names.

Wait till you see the new Brushes.

For cripes sake watch the videos, read the features, iWork works. It has been designed to import Work and Microsoft Office directly. As you said, "I guess i'll just have to read up on it." Please. And hurry.
post #212 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Microsoft Office inside is what is needed. Compatible with Mac, of course. And starting with PowerPoint for presentations. The standard is PowerPoint, not Keynote, even being the latter much better and intuitive that the former. Those are the real facts!

Keynote is often more "compatible" with Powerpoint than Powerpoint is: it can take Powerpoint documents, edit them more easily and with fewer bugs than Powerpoint, and export them as Powerpoint. If you have a Powerpoint presentation, use Keynote to present it. The presentation interface is going to be different than a laptop regardless.

Similarly, I have Word and Pages and I always use Pages for editing Word documents, and then save as .doc for collaboration. I've never had a problem with compatibility.
post #213 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm

... How would you hold it in the cup of your hand without obscuring the screen if the bezel was any smaller?

Watch the presentation video. The bezel is much wider than it needs to be.

Let's settle this once and for all.



Gee, whatta you know? iGenius is right, and all that crap about "needing" the bezel for your thumbs is just lame justification by people dazzled by teh shiny.

The bezel is there because all that fancy sensing technology in the Apple patents we all read about didn't make it into the iPad.

In fact no new sensing tech made it into the iPad. Nothing. Nada. It's multitouch exactly the same as an iPod touch. It's a bigger iPod touch with an emphasis on eBooks.

I am getting used to it and will likely buy one or two, but let's get real.
  • It's not a "revolutionary" device.
  • It does nothing different from the iPod and iPhone.
  • It's just bigger.
The huge bezel is there because on average consumers are clumsy fools and can't be expected to always hold the pad in a way where they aren't touching the screen. In other words it's a dumbed down solution for the average idiot because none of the fancy technology was ready for prime time yet.

Because it's bigger it actually has *less* functionality than an iPod or iPhone in that you cannot thumb type on it.

Therefore one of the biggest drawbacks of tablets, (that has always plagued the category in general), still exists on the iPad. You can't use it standing up unless you poke at it with one finger. You therefore can't type on it or do any data entry of any use, standing up. In fact, you can't type on it effectively at all, unless you lie it on a table, or have a couch or bed handy. It will be difficult to type on it on the train, or on the bus. It won't work very well on your lap while the bus is moving. It wasn't coincidence that Jobs demonstrated it's use from a couch with the device resting on his legs that were propped up. That's the only way it really works.

I wrote a thousand word article on my iPhone just a couple of days ago while standing up on the train on the way home. I won't be able to do that with an iPad, even though it's bigger and has better software. Someone thumb typing in portrait mode on an iPhone will certainly get a much faster typing speed than someone using an iPad. The iPad is almost certainly a step down in terms of data entry. If the thing had a smaller bezel, or was smaller in size, or came in multiple different sizes, this wouldn't' be the case.

IMO this is a colossal design flaw and a big mistake from Apple. Apple *does* make mistakes you know.
post #214 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Speaking of such media, my iTunes library won't fit on a 64GB device so I'd have to muck around with playlists, a time consuming activity I hate. That explains why I have no music at all on my iPod touch. It's reserved for apps, podcasts and photos. I have an old iPod shuffle I can quickly load with a random bunch songs if I need music on the go.

You can also fill your iPod Touch with random music from your Library.
post #215 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I wrote a thousand word article on my iPhone just a couple of days ago while standing up on the train on the way home. I won't be able to do that with an iPad, even though it's bigger and has better software. Someone thumb typing in portrait mode on an iPhone will certainly get a much faster typing speed than someone using an iPad. The iPad is almost certainly a step down in terms of data entry. If the thing had a smaller bezel, or was smaller in size, or came in multiple different sizes, this wouldn't' be the case.

Instead of typing, just dictate your article with Dragon voice recognition. That'll work just fine.
post #216 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Let's settle this once and for all.



Gee, whatta you know? iGenius is right, and all that crap about "needing" the bezel for your thumbs is just lame justification by people dazzled by teh shiny.

The bezel is there because all that fancy sensing technology in the Apple patents we all read about didn't make it into the iPad.

In fact no new sensing tech made it into the iPad. Nothing. Nada. It's multitouch exactly the same as an iPod touch. It's a bigger iPod touch with an emphasis on eBooks.

I am getting used to it and will likely buy one or two, but let's get real.
  • It's not a "revolutionary" device.
  • It does nothing different from the iPod and iPhone.
  • It's just bigger.
The huge bezel is there because on average consumers are clumsy fools and can't be expected to always hold the pad in a way where they aren't touching the screen. In other words it's a dumbed down solution for the average idiot because none of the fancy technology was ready for prime time yet.

Because it's bigger it actually has *less* functionality than an iPod or iPhone in that you cannot thumb type on it.

Therefore one of the biggest drawbacks of tablets, (that has always plagued the category in general), still exists on the iPad. You can't use it standing up unless you poke at it with one finger. You therefore can't type on it or do any data entry of any use, standing up. In fact, you can't type on it effectively at all, unless you lie it on a table, or have a couch or bed handy. It will be difficult to type on it on the train, or on the bus. It won't work very well on your lap while the bus is moving. It wasn't coincidence that Jobs demonstrated it's use from a couch with the device resting on his legs that were propped up. That's the only way it really works.

I wrote a thousand word article on my iPhone just a couple of days ago while standing up on the train on the way home. I won't be able to do that with an iPad, even though it's bigger and has better software. Someone thumb typing in portrait mode on an iPhone will certainly get a much faster typing speed than someone using an iPad. The iPad is almost certainly a step down in terms of data entry. If the thing had a smaller bezel, or was smaller in size, or came in multiple different sizes, this wouldn't' be the case.

IMO this is a colossal design flaw and a big mistake from Apple. Apple *does* make mistakes you know.

Really. So the iPod Touch and iPhone run iWorks? They have pop over windows that replace pull down menus and put a great deal more information and options at your fingertips? Split screen apps that look like a hybrid between desktop OS X and the iPhone OS? And the promise of a slew of desktop class apps that use all that nice, big touch UI to give you brand new ways of interacting with your data?

Bigger is, literally, materially different. Just like the iPhone, the iPad's screen is pretty much the device, and four times the screen real estate translates into a completely different experience.

Going on about lacking amazing new technologies just misses the point. It really does. A 10" screen is a different category of device. And, if you can believe some of the things around the web, it's the device Apple really wanted to build all along, and the iPhone was just what they could manage at the time. It's probably closer to the truth to consider the iPhone a "small iPad" that just happened to get released first.

I find it a little depressing that people that are ostensibly technology enthusiasts are having such a hard time grasping this simple point.
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post #217 of 280
Pardon me, but if the bezel wasn't wide enough to grasp with your hand, the result would be chaos, since the display is the UI.
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post #218 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I find it a little depressing that people that are ostensibly technology enthusiasts are having such a hard time grasping this simple point.

It's funny how people can't understand that simply bigger is in fact much more usable but "Grasping the point" or the Ipad seems to be the problem.

Why do people expect this tablet to do truly magical things? In Gazoobees case, you have to be able to type with both hands, while standing up and simultaneously holding the device? First of all, what device can do this? Are we missing something? Unless it hovers I can't imagine how that would work and "back-typing" will definitely take time to implement even if people seem ready to learn another input method and we are not in my opinion, but certainly not customers who want a $500 device that works without a thought.

The bezel is not such a big deal. If newer sensing technology makes an ipad without a bezel possible and cheap enough to go into a $500 device then we'll see it, but for now the current Ipad will do just fine.

There's something else I'd like to tackle as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

They won't even let developer's use the 30 pin port to create an external hardware USB path.

To those who think 3rd party devices will never connect to the ipad/ ipods or Iphones; there are already credit card scanners (which I use personally), medical devices (MRI scan readers and devices for diabetics), NASA has a gas detector application and hardware and 3rd party calibration microphones for audio engineers. That's only what I know of. Further, according to information given to me on this forum, USB external hardware is supported into the new DEV KIT.

The point is... how complicated does Apple's Ipad have to be? 1) Apple wants to leave extensible features to be written by developers (great for devs) and 2) External devices will extend the feature set while still maintaing simplicity in design of the core device. Sounds like a great plan to me. Make a great device and OS, let developers make great software for it and let manufacturers make great devices that plug into it.

People want to get information into the Ipad/ IPT/ IP? Things are just getting started it my opinion.
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post #219 of 280
iPad bezel = the iMac chin, AKA the concern of the oddly obsessed.
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post #220 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

iPad bezel = the iMac chin, AKA the concern of the oddly obsessed.

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post #221 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

USB is far less relevant for an iPad since everything syncs through iTunes on a PC/Mac.

I have to disagree. I cannot count how many times I have had to use a USB drive to get the latest edits from a colleague on the road or transfer something to the drive to share or print at Kinkos. USB support offers convenience and I don't have to ask person A if their laptop supports it or they if mine supports its. We just plug the drive in, copy and the world is happy. That is easy and easy sells.
post #222 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroturf1 View Post

I have to disagree. I cannot count how many times I have had to use a USB drive to get the latest edits from a colleague on the road or transfer something to the drive to share or print at Kinkos. USB support offers convenience and I don't have to ask person A if their laptop supports it or they if mine supports its. We just exchange copy and the world is happy. That is easy and easy sells.

So for those instances you use the dock connector USB adapter?
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post #223 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

You just described a netbook or ultra-small laptop. Except that either of those can do all those things at once, instantly switching between them. Can you imagine taking notes while the boss speaks, and then wanting to instantly bring up a web page to illustrate a point? Bye bye note taking...





The kindle DX is unsuited to business computer use. The iPad has no phone. Few businessman will want to carry around a big device AND a shitty cheap cellphone everywhere they go.

I see the device as a cool toy to surf the web while sitting on the ... couch. Except that without flash, it is a crummy way to surf the 'web.

Devs are now able to use 3G for voice calling, so load it up with skype (once it is updated), headphones with a mic, and you have a makeshift "phone" right there. Mind you it won't be so practical on the go, but as a sit down voice chat machine, the iPad is perfectly capable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Pardon me, but if the bezel wasn't wide enough to grasp with your hand, the result would be chaos, since the display is the UI.

I agree.
post #224 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So for those instances you use the dock connector USB adapter?

Absolutely, but the idea of convenience would not require lugging around more stuff than you need to lug. But that is personal preference so I can only argue my preference. I love the Iphone because I don't need to carry a phone and my ipod at the same time. It converged the two. I like the iPad because it offers convenience (bigger screen) than the phone when browsing on the couch and it offers a bigger screen for controlling my home automation system. But replacing the laptop, all that conversion with iWork, adapter, etc. that is just not as easy as packing a laptop, no adapters, no conversion issues, etc.
post #225 of 280
In November 2009, John Hewitt, iPhone Facebook app developer made headlines by vetting his decision to stop developing for the iPhone platform over issues he had with Apple’s App Store policies.*

Now he takes another turn, this time on the iPad. †

Warning. Not everyone will appreciate his points of concern.

* http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/11...s-the-project/

http://joehewitt.com/post/ipad/
post #226 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The only part I got wrong about the OS was the name and the Home Screen setup. I hope that the jailbreak community makes a nice side-edge unlock and app selection, but that is for a different conversation. Perhaps most telling is that unlike the trollish posters I don't go around posting absolutes willy nilly.

PS: My response to you is an attempt to get you to spend your Friday evening perusing my posting history in an attempt to prove me wrong.

The stylus? Or was that just a wish? I can't remember and don't much care but as I find myself in agreement with you most of the time I was a little surprised at the force of your argument, so I remember it.;-)
post #227 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

No, it doesn't. You don't achieve acceptance by dumbing down. You continue to excel.

Apple is a market leader - not on something as bland as units sold, but in terms of brand recognition, public perception of being an innovator and as an aspiration brand. They're earning plenty of money, getting plenty of press and selling plenty of units.

You're suggesting that Apple wants to be bigger than Microsoft, I really don't think this is the case. They want to make money - they are making plenty. If people don't buy a mac because they want to run powerpoint, then that's not the user Apple wanted. Remember "Think Different"? Maybe it's time for a return to that old marketing slogan.

No, I'm suggesting Apple wants Windows users as well to adopt iPad... not unlike they wanted Windows users to adopt iPod. Now... iPod was media player, thus media manager software was enough. Hence iTunes for Windows. But iPad is supposed to be much more than iPod, so iTunes is not enough - iPad needs to connect with Windows platform on more levels. I think SJ is well aware of that, and so iWork is capable of handling Word and PowePoint files, plus can copy those files to and from network wirelessly, without iTunes help. That alone is making it much more interested for me as a Windows user, and I believe it will make it interesting for many other Windows users. A few more apps - comic book reader capable of reading CBR files, Stanza optimised for screen size (and wireless file copying enabled for those apps as well) and I might be sold solid.
post #228 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

You're right and it does. Keynote opens, edits, presents and saves PPT files. How you get them there is unclear (email of course but other direct means too I hope). All the current Windows iTunes implementations will just as happily enable the iPad.
As for share, Apple no longer thinks about Mac mkt share as a benchmark (which is creeping towards 10% in US units and vastly more in $ value) or a limitation but about total segment share - iPod 70%, iPhone 20%, iPad ??% of ?? - tablet market (it will have >50% immediately) or what other segment? Apple will never be satisfied with 5% of anything again it seems and are fixing that every quarter with the Mac.

Yes, I've seen that. I've also noticed Pages will do Word documents. That is great! With features like that, iPad is distinguishing itself away from "oversized iPod". A few more things I want from tablet - CBR reader and Stanza optimised for screen, fast PDF reader... and I'll be looking at it to replace most of my notebook applications, since I am doing heavy duty stuff on desktop anyway.
post #229 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The huge bezel is there because on average consumers are clumsy fools and can't be expected to always hold the pad in a way where they aren't touching the screen. In other words it's a dumbed down solution for the average idiot because none of the fancy technology was ready for prime time yet.

This is why you're not a product designer. The huge bezel isn't for the clumsy, it's for everyone.

Besides, it's not as big as you think:

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #230 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I find it a little depressing that people that are ostensibly technology enthusiasts are having such a hard time grasping this simple point.

These arguments will be forgotten when the iPad sells 50,000,000 units over the next three years. The iPod was dismissed by many too. The category is unproven, so people can't grasp it.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #231 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Do you really think that Microsoft technologies will be with us forever? Because, if it is not, then the argument that Microsoft technologies should be kept as standard because it is currently predominant is not only a backward view of technological development, it is also dangerous.

What does forever has to do with it? I'm not going to use my notebook, or tablet (if I decide to get one) forever. I'll use it for next 3 to 5 years, and yes, I think MS technologies will be dominant in that period, judging from MS quarterly results - not to mention that both my wife and I work in Windows-dominant environments. Likewise, Adobe Flash will be popular in the same period. I'm all for scrapping Flash for better technologies, but until web sites do that, I need Flash enabled on my web browsing gadgets. For me, it is that simple.

Quote:
Where would Google be, if we mandated that the one predominant MS/Yahoo(???) search engines were taken simply as standards?

Not the same - Google search is not platform-exclusive. If Google somehow limited their search engine to Linux or OSX only, do you have any doubts they would be much less popular than today?

Quote:
Whatever the basis of the iPod popularity, it cannot be denied (even by Gates or Ballmer during interviews) that currently the iPod/iTunes ecosystem has about 70% of the digital music market, and the predominant hardware beating the Microsoft's Zune. The argument that its success rested on Windows is a false argument. The same can be said of Microsoft. Where will Microsoft be if IBM has not given it a break, and Bill Gates was not savvy enough to understand the significance of its intellectual property? Where would Google be if Yahoo had not given it a break as its default search engine?

A technology company that ignores the prevailing technologies and are too far advanced from what is acceptable may likely not make it. At the same time, a company that does not go beyond current standards may be swept to oblivion, if the standards are toppled.

No one can deny that the iPhone has changed the dynamics of the smartphone and the Apps business -- everyone tried to copy them in an attempt to catch up.

Bill Gates has talked about tablet mobile computers since the early years of this century, and even produced demos, abd actually had some early very costly versions on the market? [Of course there was Newton(?) before that.]

How come that it required an Apple iPad -- in spite of all its perceived imperfections -- to re-energize the Tablet technology? Didn't Ballmer not made the first demo and all those PC tablets during the early part of this year? Was it all really the mystic of Steve Jobs that they have to await the Apple version?

Whether Apple is 5% or whatever you want to base your stats from, it cannot be denied that it has come out with innovations that captured significant number of people, changed technologies or how an industry is evolving (iPod and music industry, iPhone and those that tried to emulate it in smartphone, Apple Store and retailing).

In business, and especially technology centric business it may not always be the domination (market share) that will dictate your profitability or survival. However, you view Apple, it cannot be denied that it is only among the few technology companies that remained profitable in the worst recession during the past 30 years.

What you deride as 5% of world market share still can boast a cash reserve of almost $40Billion with no debt. Can you say that of Microsoft, HP, Dell, Lenovo, or any other technology company?

I'm losing you here. By the way, Microsoft just announced best quarter in their history, as observed on http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17551... but what does that have to do with my original post that iPad is not stand-alone product but supplement, and as such needs to integrate with existing platforms. It is hardly a rocket science to conclude that many Windows users, both home and business, will skip on iPad if it can't communicate with Windows software such people are using on daily basis. I believe even Apple confirmed that by including support for Word and PPT files right from the launch.

Quote:
Derisions, such as terms like "fanboy", are the last resort and argument of people who cannot summon more logical rebuttals.

And those who use such labels seem to suggest that only they can be right, and all those hundred millions of iTunes clients, more than 70 million iPhone/iPod users must be fools and could not think for themselves.

Such flawed arguments are the epitomy of arrogance, if not more revealing of other personal flaws,

It is very revealing of a person's character when (s)he thinks that his view must be right and everyone else who has a different view must be wrong or misguided.

Again, I don't see any connection between this and my opinion that iPad needs strong integration within Windows ecosystem, if it wants to penetrate Windows-centric market. And obviously it does, not unlike iPod. I feel your thoughts were wobbling a bit here.
post #232 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

This is why you're not a product designer. The huge bezel isn't for the clumsy, it's for everyone.

Besides, it's not as big as you think:


Personally, I'm completely OK with the bezel. I want to be able to hold device comfortably, without constantly checking if my fingers have gone 5mm left or right.

Bezel is the least of my concerns. I'm much more curious to see how networking and file sharing will work... likewise, to see some extra apps I'd require on a tablet.
post #233 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

The stylus? Or was that just a wish? I can't remember and don't much care but as I find myself in agreement with you most of the time I was a little surprised at the force of your argument, so I remember it.;-)

Yes, I'd like a stylus for this type of device for certain uses, just not for the primary input method. Having a pen0like device in your hand makes many actions considerable easier. Not just because of the fineness of the point but from the way your hold the device. They already exist in some capacity from 3rd-parties but expect this to become even more pronounced in the future.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #234 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Besides, it's not as big as you think:

Must... resist... obvious... joke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

These arguments will be forgotten when the iPad sells 50,000,000 units over the next three years. The iPod was dismissed by many too. The category is unproven, so people can't grasp it.

I think it will be popular and see plenty of uses for this device (though not one for myself) but I don't think 50M is reasonable. 15M-20M sounds more likely without some major overhauls to the OS..
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #235 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

So how do you like yours? I'm still waiting to get mine.

Great retort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alectheking View Post

Wheres the link to Apples page? You are wrong, you boggle my mind.

Well it's there. The bigger question is what developers will do with devices connected to the dock connector (Apple's USB convertor included). Since the Blood Glucose monitor was demonstrated ahead of iPhone 3.0 I thought we'd see a rush of 3rd party 30pin dock connected devices but they seem few and far between. I just wonder if too many iPod touch users never upgraded to 3.0 and there isn't actually the market yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

It's funny. These new features (i.e. printing to a network, network file retreival) that's exactly what i've been complaining that the iPad doesn't have that i wish it did. Hopefully these features will make it to the consumer version and not just the Enterprise. I'm curious how that's going to work if it's all through iTunes?

However. I think the lack of thinking that this iPad could replace the physical paper notepad with a handy addition of an Apple stylus and handwriting recognition built into iNotes would be very cool! I'm an architect and using the iPad as a sketching tool for field work and meeting would be excellent! Plus if the stylus could work in Acrobat files to make notes and draw things it would be such a huge addition to the architect's palette!

Hope someone writes an App for it, give SJ's hatred of the stylus, we'll probably never see Apple make one.

I don't thing SJ hates the styles... sure when he first introduced the iPhone he commented about it getting lost so we can read he doesn't think it should be the primary input method, but we know that Apple Stores will have iPod touch with styluses.


------

I can't see myself using one of these. It doesn't offer much between the iPhone (very portable) and 13" MBP (very capable) really.

I do wonder if it could be useful for someone like my wife (who surfs, emails and spends a lot of time doing simple files in Word) or the in-laws who don't really need a full blown computer but would like to use some of the features and internet. Actually I know for them printing would be a killer app. I'm not sure how much of a niche that is though. I think both would appreciate the chance to use Skype or iChat though so I'm lamenting the missing iSight.

The lack of rear-mounted camera is surprising, as the rise of Augmented Reality apps this is where the iPhone is starting to stand away from the iPod touch.
post #236 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

What you fail to comprehend is that this does the things it is designed to do way better than a netbook (media consumption of all kinds)

I hope so. My iPhone is extremely it could locked down, and will not play the majority of movie formats. It is also missing important audio codecs like .flac and .ogg.

Are you thinking that the 'Pad will play these? That would be great.

But unless it does, I don't see how it allows media consumption of all kinds. Additionally, I don't understand how it is better for movie consumption than a netbook with widescreen formatting. Their decision to make it 4:3 results in letterboxing and a smaller picture than many netbooks with the same "10 inch" screen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Being a big iPhone is a massive innovation in itself

I wouldn't call the same device with a different screen size "a massive innovation". But there's way too much argument here about the meanings of words (dictionaries don't even seem to help) so I won't argue.
post #237 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

No, I'm suggesting Apple wants Windows users as well to adopt iPad... not unlike they wanted Windows users to adopt iPod. Now... iPod was media player, thus media manager software was enough. Hence iTunes for Windows. But iPad is supposed to be much more than iPod, so iTunes is not enough - iPad needs to connect with Windows platform on more levels. I think SJ is well aware of that, and so iWork is capable of handling Word and PowePoint files, [1} plus can copy those files to and from network wirelessly, without iTunes help. That alone is making it much more interested for me as a Windows user, and I believe it will make it interesting for many other Windows users. A few more apps - comic book reader capable of reading [2] CBR files, [3] Stanza optimised for screen size (and wireless file copying enabled for those apps as well) and I might be sold solid.

[1] You can

[2] Right out of the box you will be able to install and run your iPod/iPhone apps

Quote:
140,000 apps. And counting.
iPad will work with almost all of the apps designed for the iPhone. Just download them from the App Store. Or, if you already have apps for your iPhone or iPod touch, you can sync them to iPad from your Mac or PC. Then run them in their original size, or expand them to fill the screen. And developers are working on new apps designed specifically for this amazing device and all the things it can do.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/app-store/
post #238 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

It wasn't coincidence that Jobs demonstrated it's use from a couch with the device resting on his legs that were propped up. That's the only way it really works.

I noticed that his knees were higher than his pelvis while he had it on his lap. I wondered whether he was using a footstool, or what.

Were his legs propped up in some weird way? Was it a special trick chair with the seat closer to the ground than normal? Anybody notice?

I can't see that typing on it will be good: Either you will be hunched over with it horizontally on your lap, or more likely, you will need a table that is several inches higher than your lap.

The case is telling: It changes the orientation from horizontal so you won't need to hunch over so much. But the screen angle and the keyboard angle are the same, even using the case on a table or desk. The bottom of the screen is closer to your eyes than the top, and the view is from an oblique angle (unless you hunch over).

I agree that they should have innovated on the input method. I am disappointed that they neglected this area.
post #239 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Bigger is, literally, materially different.

Perhaps. That's one reason why I got a Dell laptop instead of an Apple: Apple doesn't offer 1080p screens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Just like the iPhone, the iPad's screen is pretty much the device, and four times the screen real estate translates into a completely different experience.

I'm prone to agree. I'm pretty surprised that Apple does not offer 1080p on its laptops. My Dell gives me a completely different (and better) experience.
post #240 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Pardon me, but if the bezel wasn't wide enough to grasp with your hand, the result would be chaos, since the display is the UI.

But nobody proposed that the bezel should be insuffiently wide.
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