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Steve Jobs: iPad to offer Word support, $10 eBooks, 6 days of music - Page 4

post #121 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Now, now. You must admit, for an Old Guy, Mossberg is pretty hip. Gives the rest of us hope. I imagine the NY Times is pretty unhip and stuck in their ways, by comparison.

Yeah, just h trying to put a little humour into the thread.
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post #122 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yeah, just h trying to put a little humour into the thread.

Keep trying. So much of this discussion is depressing.
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post #123 of 160
I have to agree. I got iWork, hoping it would take the place of office and then had to get Office almost immediately after, and this was on a 24 inch iMac extreme.

Formulas in Numbers is like pulling your hair out, and simple cell formating and borders such as the "bottom line" (accountants will know what this is) are impossible from what I have noticed.

When attempting to do line spacing in Pages, I was again pulling my hair out. It was like Page Maker all over again, which I used to swear by, until I finally went full on into Word and never looked back.

I even tried open office and got it off my computer as soon as I could. I would have been more productive committing sepuku.

Don't get me wrong. I plan to get an iPad, when the second model comes out. I have always hated laptops because I have just never seen the point. A sit down computer you carry with you. Unless you absolutely need it for business and are traveling all the time, the laptop has never made sense to me, especially if you already had a computer, preferably with a NAS, set up at home.

the iPad makes sense and I do plan to get one, maybe two if my wife wants one also, but they need to fix their office replacement app to provide more than just gimmickry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

As an accountant and I am sure for millions of other business people- no Excel app - 100%, NO deal.
post #124 of 160
That's a painful option. I have done it and it was more than painful to endure.

Do you have any idea how annoying it is to build a classified balance sheet and then send it back to your work machine and have to go through all of your cells and tables and reformat everything?

That's essentially doing the work twice.

That's just unacceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yes for major work it's best to go with a Excel machine as the formatting has issues transferring over and Microsoft can upset the apple cart before Apple has a chance to create a work around.

But for basic stuff it can be transferred over and tweaked, just like OpenOffice can also do Excel files.
post #125 of 160
Agreed on all points in this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Almost nobody uses OpenOffice. I have it on my Mac, and it really sucks. I use Office much more happily when I need that. iWork for simpler stuff, and CS4 for really complex work.

Openoffice has under 1% of the office market. It's not something people consider, even though it's free.
post #126 of 160
This is great news. It was really useless as a productivity tool without having the ability to output as an office product.
post #127 of 160
This device can save my 11 year old sons back. His back-sack is now comparable to an army grunts due to all the books he has to bring home. All educational publishers in every language should, nay, have to make their textbooks, exercise book and note books in a format that will be available to every student for a fee far less expensive to school commissions. A parent would buy their child or children and that iPad would follow them throughout the years. Perhaps one in elementary, one in high-school and one for cegep, sorry Canadian terms. Children from less fortunate families could "rent" one or have them donated. The distribution would then be so widespread that the price would most certainly go way down to perhaps 100$ or 200$ a unit or less. This iPad is the perfect platform education had waited for to push education into this century.

Steve get on it. please!
post #128 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Now, now. You must admit, for an Old Guy, Mossberg is pretty hip. Gives the rest of us hope. I imagine the NY Times is pretty unhip and stuck in their ways, by comparison.

Um... Mossberg writes for the WSJ, not the NYTimes, everybody.
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post #129 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleigh Quinn View Post

When attempting to do line spacing in Pages, I was again pulling my hair out. It was like Page Maker all over again, which I used to swear by, until I finally went full on into Word and never looked back.

I have to wonder what you are doing wrong. Line spacing works fine for me.
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post #130 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyapple View Post

Um... Mossberg writes for the WSJ, not the NYTimes, everybody.

Quite right. Sorry, brain fart!
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post #131 of 160
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
"I've been using Pages for all of my business word processing since version 1.0, and never had a "compatibility" problem."

What "type" of problems have you had?
post #132 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post


And 10 hours will quickly become 5 after a year or two, if my experience with iPods is anything close to what will happen with the iPad.

But then it is time to buy a new one, which will be so great!
post #133 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

But then it is time to buy a new one, which will be so great!

No, you can send it in, there is quite an industry building up around changing iBatteries. Just google iPod or iPhone battery replacement. I know a number of people that have used iPodJuice with great results. I used milliamp.com for my daugther's ipod, not impressed, and apple for my iphone (really not impressed, had to send it back so total time without phone, going on 5 weeks and I am back to my blackberry which sux).
post #134 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleigh Quinn View Post

I have to agree. I got iWork, hoping it would take the place of office and then had to get Office almost immediately after, and this was on a 24 inch iMac extreme.

Formulas in Numbers is like pulling your hair out, and simple cell formating and borders such as the "bottom line" (accountants will know what this is) are impossible from what I have noticed.

Try doing an array formula, absolutely NO LOVE from iWork here!!!!!! Which, I find I use array formulas all the time. But the biggest loss, true pivot tables. We use pivot tables in Excel for nearly every aspect of the business from project management to managing our SPE lists.
post #135 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I would buy iPad if there was a Microsoft Word app. Though others may disagree, i am very tempted to fulfill the role of Desktop computer with iPad. My current Dell from 2003 belongs in a Housing Works or Salvation Army.

No Microsoft App is a Microsoft problem not a Apple problem. Apple solution is a $10 Pages which honestly Microsoft may never do.
post #136 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The only time that would become a big deal is if you took it on a camping holiday or somewhere it's hard to find a charging point. But again, the reason you go on holiday is to get away from it all so not a huge problem.

Or MAYBE you go away to the cottage for a week (the cottage with no power) to just hike, swim and read books all week. Eh?! Ha ha But ya... for the most part... 10 hours should be fine. I guess someone might come out with a solar charger or something too. Stick it in the window while you're out hiking and swimming :P
post #137 of 160
I can't believe that Mossberg began to quibble about the use of a LCD screen and battery life compared to the Kindle's e-ink. Soon after the iPad was announced, I checked the Amazon site to see if maybe they decided to pack up their Kindles and go home (they didn't - yet). The first thing I noticed was how old and ugly the Kindle now looks. And then I noticed the $489 price tag for the Kindle DX (which is .1 inches smaller than the iPad). My guess is that price is gonna start coming down pretty fast. Oh well, Amazon - you could always unload them on Overstocked.com.
post #138 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Openoffice has under 1% of the office market. It's not something people consider, even though it's free.

Only 1%, man if I made a product that only had 1% market share in the entire market I would be pretty embarrassed
post #139 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"It's all about the display," the Apple co-founder said of battery life. "Our chips don't use hardly any power."

So that means they DO use a lot of power? I don't think Jobs actually said this like that. LOL
post #140 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffe View Post

I wasn't getting involved in any argument, much less changing it

I was merely providing anecdotal evidence that by and large it's the screen that is the biggest drain on the battery in this sort of device. And that I expect that to be a bigger issue in the iPad than in smaller devices, due to the relatively similar internal architectures being used for broadly similar tasks, yet massively large screen.

This is how they are getting 10 hours usage with the screen on, and 6 days with it off.

That's all.

We know that. jobs already said that to Mossberg in the video.
post #141 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Only 1%, man if I made a product that only had 1% market share in the entire market I would be pretty embarrassed

You have to remember that it's free. That really says something.
post #142 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You have to remember that it's free. That really says something.

Which makes it virtually impossible to calculate its market share, and any one claiming to know the share is just guessing.
post #143 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Which makes it virtually impossible to calculate its market share, and any one claiming to know the share is just guessing.

Not really. There are ways of doing this.
post #144 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

In order for iWork=MS Office, it would have to have 100 percent compatibility. It DOES NOT. Almost every .doc file I open in Pages contains some formatting error. Yet is will open the document but I don't want to work on an important document or even something like a resume and guess and hope that it will open and look the same in Word. My experience has shown otherwise. The reason is that iWork does not SAVE in Word format. It EXPORTS the file to word format (or powerpoint, or excel) using third party translators built into the program. These translators as not 100 percent compatible. Excel is even worse and forget powerpoint. IF you want and need compatibility (100 percent), then you must use Office. I have both iWork and Office and they are not completely compatible. Therefore, until there is a 100 percent substitute or until businesses adopt another standard, I invest in Office for the Mac.

Also iWork DOES NOT support the latest file formats for Office period. It won't even open .docx files or the latest ppt, or excel files from the latest versions of Mac and PC. This is NOT a substitute. I'm glad it works for you but for businesses iWork being substituted for Office is a JOKE. Please note, I like using iWork for somethings but unless Apple pays licensing fee's to Microsoft for IT'S file translators, it will NEVER be competition for it.

The docx, xlsx and others like that which are new to Office is Microsoft's way to make things uncompatible again. You should save in the older file extensions which are compatible.
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post #145 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

The docx, xlsx and others like that which are new to Office is Microsoft's way to make things uncompatible again. You should save in the older file extensions which are compatible.

I should and I do when I'm going to share things with other people. A lot of people don't even have the latest versions. However, the point is, what if a colleague send sends me a docx document. If all I have is Pages I cannot open it!
post #146 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

I should and I do when I'm going to share things with other people. A lot of people don't even have the latest versions. However, the point is, what if a colleague send sends me a docx document. If all I have is Pages I cannot open it!

I thought Microsoft lost a lawsuit and needs to change the file format before it can sell any more copies of Word. Pretty sure they were going to switch to XML or some open format. That would solve the problem.

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post #147 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

I should and I do when I'm going to share things with other people. A lot of people don't even have the latest versions. However, the point is, what if a colleague send sends me a docx document. If all I have is Pages I cannot open it!

Google Docs will convert them.
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post #148 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not really. LCD screens use very little power, even IPS. Passive matrix LCd's use less power, but no one uses them for serious displays. Most of the power is in the backlight.

I agree. Case in point: my Palm PDA. I'm using an old Palm m515 PDA. It is one of those models where you can turn off the backlight without shutting off the device (and a "transflective" screen that looks good in bright light without the backlight.) I get about 5-6 hours of active battery life when the light is on. I get 2-3 days with the light turned off.

Unfortunately, I don't think the transflective tech used by Palm can scale up to high resolution displays, so a modern device is probably always going to need a backlight. Still, new backlight technologies (LCD vs. CCF, etc.) has gone a long way to improving battery life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroturf1 View Post

No, you can send it in, there is quite an industry building up around changing iBatteries. Just google iPod or iPhone battery replacement.

You can also do it yourself if you're comfortable with small tools. If the iPad procedure is anything like the iPhone 3G procedure, I don't think it will be that difficult.

I've done battery replacements in iPod Classics and an old iPod mini. Time consuming and a little tricky, but not hard to do. As long as the battery isn't soldered down, replacement really isn't hard for anyone with patience and a steady hand.
post #149 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

I should and I do when I'm going to share things with other people. A lot of people don't even have the latest versions. However, the point is, what if a colleague send sends me a docx document. If all I have is Pages I cannot open it!

Apple did license the latest Word Doc format from MS. I know that. But then, MS was trying to pull a fast one by modifying the agreed upon standard for XML precisely so that it would be Office specific. They don't want companies to use open formats that everyone can use. When that happens, their Office monopoly begins to unravel, and they know it. They tried that with Java too, several years ago, and Sun squashed them in court over it. but they keep trying this garbage.

MS also made it impossible for older versions to read their latest XML docs. There had been a lot of pressure to fix that, but MS resisted because they want people to upgrade.

Don't just blame iWork. Look to MS's policies. That's where the problem lies.
post #150 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traqqer7777 View Post

Good. I completely agree that compatibility with Word is necessary.

it's a built in feature of Pages. not a shock it would be in this ipad version

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post #151 of 160
I would have thought that Steve & Co. would have learned from the complaints & slow sells of the ATV due to extremely small storage but from the pathetically small 16 GB - 64BG Max storage capabilities of the ipad I guess they didn't. Yea, you might get 6 days of music storage but then where are you going to store several ebooks or a 1/2 dozen movies for that long trip.
post #152 of 160
What about the HP financial calculators which are available in the APP store, imagine a ten inch HP-41CX...

...an accountant's wet dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

As an accountant and I am sure for millions of other business people- no Excel app - 100%, NO deal.
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post #153 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot9201 View Post

I would have thought that Steve & Co. would have learned from the complaints & slow sells of the ATV due to extremely small storage but from the pathetically small 16 GB - 64BG Max storage capabilities of the ipad I guess they didn't. Yea, you might get 6 days of music storage but then where are you going to store several ebooks or a 1/2 dozen movies for that long trip.

I suppose they should have started this at 32 GB at $599 instead, and worked up to $999 for 128 with 8 hours of battery life. Would you have been happier then?
post #154 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I suppose they should have started this at 32 GB at $599 instead, and worked up to $999 for 128 with 8 hours of battery life. Would you have been happier then?

Little doubt, he would have complained about the price.
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post #155 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Little doubt, he would have complained about the price.

I'm sure.
post #156 of 160
That iWork apps have done this since day 1. Walt acted like using iWork at WSJ was a no-go and why make it worse by buying an iPad and iWork.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It was posted right after the keynote that it will natively view DOX, DOCX, PPT and XLS files. Perhaps before Mossberg would have had time to see it but certainly not before some posters here started crying foul.
post #157 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot9201 View Post

I would have thought that Steve & Co. would have learned from the complaints & slow sells of the ATV due to extremely small storage but from the pathetically small 16 GB - 64BG Max storage capabilities of the ipad I guess they didn't. Yea, you might get 6 days of music storage but then where are you going to store several ebooks or a 1/2 dozen movies for that long trip.

eBooks are tiny compared to music and video. Even audiobooks are just large-ish MP3s or AACs, roughly 10 mb per hour.

The 16-64 GB limits are likely what they could muster for flash memory at reasonable prices. Remember, classic iPods and aTV still run hard drives. 256 SSD would have pushed the iPad prices way past reasonable. They had to make the basic iPad twice the cost of a basic touch and half the cost of a basic notebook. It's a great slot to slide into.

The 6 days is about the battery lasting long enough to let the thing sit and play music with the screen dark, not about how much music goes on any given model.
post #158 of 160
Office would be nice, but how about Flash first?


The iPad wouldn't have been able to display the linked video in this thread. That wouldn't be the best web browsing experience I've ever had, it would be a terrible one.
post #159 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroturf1 View Post

I don't think I am overstating the issue. You don't have to send something in because the battery is dead (though this happened to me after a year and a couple of months with my iPhone). If I can't get through a flight from Seattle to LA listening to music, I am sending the iPod in for battery replacement. You could buy battery packs to compensate for lack of capacity, but then you loose some of the appeal of your slickly designed iSomething.....

How far is the nearest Apple Store? Your iPod battery replacement should only require an appointment there and a quick pop-in pop-out visit.

So unless you live way out in the sticks, your comment about waiting a few weeks was definitely an overstatement. If you DO live in the sticks... well then, that's kind of the way it goes for lots of things, right?

Thompson
post #160 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Office would be nice, but how about Flash first?

The iPad wouldn't have been able to display the linked video in this thread. That wouldn't be the best web browsing experience I've ever had, it would be a terrible one.

Flash is the primary reason why web browsers are slow, consume all available memory and crash all the time. Apple knows this (from all the crash-reports they get sent) and doesn't want to poison new platforms with that mess.

If Apple would include (or even permit) Flash on the iPhone/iPad, your battery life would go way down and it would crash all the time. And people would blame Apple for making a lousy product. And a response of "it's Adobe's fault" wouldn't satisfy anybody.
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