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Steve Jobs: iPad to offer Word support, $10 eBooks, 6 days of music - Page 2

post #41 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post

I have literally no proof of this, and I am quite possibly completely off base here, but the first thing that popped into my mind when reading your comment is that this sounds like a facet of a deal with Microsoft. If Apple and Microsoft worked out a deal to bring Microsoft software (Office) to the Mac, there very well could have been concessions. One of those concessions may have been the absence of ODF support in iWork. I don't know. I use iWork frequently and haven't had any problems doing what I wanted with it. You did mention that, "Almost no one uses Pages and it's not compatible with any other program." If one were working on sensitive material, perhaps Pages is a natural choice because the format isn't readable by the vast majority of Word Processors.

It stands to reason that the Microsoft MBU will be working very hard with the new SDK to get Office onto the iPad, as this will likely produce a new stream of revenue for them. Many have already commented on this thread that they'd need at least some parts of Office on the iPad for them to be able to use it in the business world. I'm sure Apple is going to run with this as it's a relatively open market right now and it's theirs for the taking if they play their cards right. Steve said the future is mobile. It's obviously something that Apple is concentrating on with a substantial amount of resources.

I'm not sure that I'll get the 3G version, as WiFi is prevalent in my area. I was hoping for a larger option than 64GB internal storage. I'd have to seriously reduce the amount of pictures I add from iPhoto onto the iPad unless there's compression (which wasn't mentioned) like that used on the iPhone. Hopefully the 128GB SSD's will drop in price soon and we'll be able to get them as an upgrade option.

That's a thought, but I think there is a simpler reason. ODF doesn't do all that .pages does. When you save a document in pages, there are all sorts of things it does like saving PDF previews inside the file (which is a package, rather than a single file). I don;t think that ODF does this natively, so they would have to create a hybrid version that would break the standards anyway, which would be worse than just writing your own format. Look to how iWork.com does things, you upload your .pages file, and the user gets to view it on the web, and download in any format (word/pdf etc). I think it's perfectly fair for a word processor with such an infinitesimally small market share to do things it's own way.

The way I always thought of it is if the person you are sending it to needs to edit it, they should be on the same version of software anyway. Most people just have the requirement to read/print it, in which case save the final version as a PDF and send that out.

Obviously this won't suit everyones workflow. YMMV, and all that.
post #42 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

How well do fonts and formatting transfer over? I've found that even Office on Windows to Office for mac has had some fonts that are not recognized. I think I was using Office 2003 on Windows and 2004 for mac at the time.

With the Mac at least, if you have the font, it will work. But that's always the question. My clients always had to give us the fonts with their documents, because you never know which of the 50,000+ fonts they were using.

It's easy to get the fonts you don't have. And as it's likely you're using free Truetype fonts, you can pick them up for free for the Mac as well.

The iPad has more fonts than the iPhone does, but we wont know how many, or which, until Apple releases more specs, and reviewers get their hands on the FINISHED product

As to whether we will be able to get free and paid fonts for this, it's a good question. I don't know how Apple will be treating software such as fonts. Will they allow one program to use this other software?
post #43 of 160
Nobody will read for 10 hours straight? Tell that to all the Harry Potter fans that marathon-read each book as it was published.

And 10 hours will quickly become 5 after a year or two, if my experience with iPods is anything close to what will happen with the iPad.
post #44 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

You didn't know iWork exports Word Excel and PowerPoint?

Really?

Keynote has quickly become one of my favorite apps ever. Having to do design presentations in powerpoint sucks as it is, but with keynote I get a much great range of control, positioning and functionality, it is seriously a pleasure to work in after using powerpoint for years. Anyone that says they like powerpoint is full of it, end of story.
post #45 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Exactly, these people buy the hardware > that runs the software > that runs the files everyone else uses > because their income depends upon it.

Question is of course if Steve will allow Excel on the iPad as it's in competition with iWork.

Then again Steve does sell Excel with new Mac's pre-installed.

But I don't think he will allow the free OpenOffice on the App Store though.

I only use a spreadsheet rarely, no use spending even $10 for one and have to pay for upgrades too.

Almost nobody uses OpenOffice. I have it on my Mac, and it really sucks. I use Office much more happily when I need that. iWork for simpler stuff, and CS4 for really complex work.

Openoffice has under 1% of the office market. It's not something people consider, even though it's free.
post #46 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

Nobody will read for 10 hours straight? Tell that to all the Harry Potter fans that marathon-read each book as it was published.

And 10 hours will quickly become 5 after a year or two, if my experience with iPods is anything close to what will happen with the iPad.

But will they read for 10 hours straight on a train, or will they be on a sofa near to a power socket?
post #47 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It depends on why you're buying it. For most people the 140,000 apps will be enough of a reason, as will their music, Tv shows, books, magazines etc.

If you need something that not in the App Store yet, then wait.

I'm willing to bet that we're going to see some tremendous software for this, as well as adapters for printers, scanners and other stuff.

This will be the $500 computer that Apple said they couldn't make. And it may get a bit cheaper next year.


The OP is looking if Microsoft Word will run on the iPad, he might need it for his job. We all know formatting doesn't move over smoothly from different programs and he might have to save as a Word for others to use. Also he might need to save files to disk or USB key, both the iPad doesn't have.

Word isn't available on the iPad, it could take Microsoft years to come out with a version if ever.

Telling him to buy a iPad and wait for a Word App is bad advice, it's best he get a Mac Mini and the OfficeMac suit.

Later if the iPad better suits his needs he can get one.


Try reading the OP first please, thank you!
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post #48 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbofus View Post

"The iPad has a 9.7-inch LCD display that features IPS technology. The Hitachi-developed feature allows improved viewing angles and superior color reproductions on screens."

You also fail to mention that IPS uses a LOT more power than other LCD options.

Not really. LCD screens use very little power, even IPS. Passive matrix LCd's use less power, but no one uses them for serious displays. Most of the power is in the backlight.
post #49 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not really. LCD screens use very little power, even IPS. Passive matrix LCd's use less power, but no one uses them for serious displays. Most of the power is in the backlight.

The Nexus One has a handy app showing where you battery juice is leaking from. The screen takes over 50% of available power in all the screenshots I have seen of this.

Bearing in mind that the phone is sitting there with a network connection constantly polling the net for phone calls and emails, and all these background apps that I keep hearing about I expect the percentage of power use by the iPad to be much greater, as the underlying chippery will be much the same, be in use less (no phone mast polling) and the screen is what, 6 times the size? Wouldn't surprise me if the screen is zapping 80%+ of available juice. Whether it's the screen, the capacitive elements, or the backlit LED is irrelevant.
post #50 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yes for major work it's best to go with a Excel machine as the formatting has issues transferring over and Microsoft can upset the apple cart before Apple has a chance to create a work around.

But for basic stuff it can be transferred over and tweaked, just like OpenOffice can also do Excel files.

Yeah. This device will be something business people will love, with the right software. The Air has been a hit with business travelers because of its size and weight. A subset of an Excel sheet for a business trip would be what this is great for. No one takes full Excel
sheets on a sales trip. Pages is also perfect for the notes needed on trips.

We'll see all of the business software that's been written for the iPhone, and it's a lot, brought over to this in expanded form. Even without a physical keyboard it will suffice. And several attendees said that typing on this was fine for the needs people will have. If needed, the keyboard dock, or other BT keyboard could be thrown into the briefcase along with this.
post #51 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

Nobody will read for 10 hours straight? Tell that to all the Harry Potter fans that marathon-read each book as it was published.

And 10 hours will quickly become 5 after a year or two, if my experience with iPods is anything close to what will happen with the iPad.

I'd think 10 hours of watching video means that you could get at least 50% more out of using it as an eReader. Sure, the display is on and lit but you aren't processing data constantly, just adding a page flip transition every 60 seconds.
Quote:
Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to music

I have to assume that listening to music via headphones with the display off will be well above 10 hours, too. /sarcasm
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post #52 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by swtchdtomak View Post

"Our chips don't use hardly any power."

Means it uses a lot of power.

Stevo needs to improve his english.

No, that's what he meant. Apple chips are made from experience of the chip company they bought. All power that is used is probably in memory, display and the radios.
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post #53 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


I have to assume that listening to music via headphones with the display off will be well above 10 hours, too.

Agreed, say about 6 days?
post #54 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

As an accountant and I am sure for millions of other business people- no Excel app - 100%, NO deal.

I assumed you are not familiarized with iWork. Same you can import & export Word with Pages you can do with Excel using Numbers and with PowerPoint using Keynote. When I first got my Mac I bought Office for Mac, then I decide to give iWork a try, guess what, I love it so much that now I only use iWork. I think is an excellent app for the tablet.

To learn more about iWork compatibility visit http://images.apple.com/iwork/compatibility/
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post #55 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffe View Post

But will they read for 10 hours straight on a train, or will they be on a sofa near to a power socket?

I read a lot and I can say i've never read for 10 hours straight, the most I have probably ever read straight is 4 or 5 hours, try it sometime it's not as 'easy' as you think
post #56 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"You know, there isn't," Jobs said. "Because you just end up plugging it in. You end up docking it or whatever you're going to do with it. It's not a big deal. Ten hours is a long time. Because you're not going to read for 10 hours."

People do read for 10 hours, but not on a glossy Apple-produced screen.

I read on my (non-glossy) iMac G5 for 10 hours at a time with no eyestrain problems.
post #57 of 160
iWork = MS Office
iWork for iPad = $30
iWork > MS Office
No need for MS Office
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post #58 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by swtchdtomak View Post

"Our chips don't use hardly any power."

Means it uses a lot of power.

Stevo needs to improve his english.

Steve meant to say "It don't NOT use hardly any power."
post #59 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

...Openoffice has under 1% of the office market. It's not something people consider, even though it's free.

OpenOffice is fine enough for some and the reason it's not used in offices a lot is because the formatting from other programs like Office doesn't transfer over between programs a well as it should.

A highly complex Excel spreadsheet for example won't look the same on OpenOffice or Numbers, it will have to be tweaked. Then there is the schools who train people to use Office and that whole cycle.

So the OP is looking for Word on the iPad, it's not available yet. Don't get one until it does.

However a Mac Mini does have OfficeMac available for it and would make a better transition device to the Apple side than a iPad with it's limitations will.

Hate to see a switcher get bummed out on their first Apple product purchase because they got wrong advice now right?

Ahh...
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post #60 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Question is of course if Steve will allow Excel on the iPad as it's in competition with iWork.

Then again Steve does sell Excel with new Mac's pre-installed.

But I don't think he will allow the free OpenOffice on the App Store though.

He will if he doesn't want an anti-trust lawsuit on his hands. I can't see Apple being stupid enough to stop anyone else developing and selling any office application for the iPad. Given what's happened to Microsoft with Explorer, the precedent is set that it would invoke the wrath of the authorities.

Furthermore, why would he want to stop it? If Excel came out for the iPad, it would likely encourage more people to buy the iPad, which will generate a lot more revenue for Apple than a $10 copy of an iWork app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffe View Post

But will they read for 10 hours straight on a train, or will they be on a sofa near to a power socket?

That's exactly the point. I know I'll get lots of people jumping on this comment because they personally have examples where it's not true, but I'm hardly every away from a power outlet for longer than 8 hours. Even when I am, like when I fly long haul, the iPad lasting 10 hours would be more than enough. My Arcos only lasts 6 hours and it never runs out on a 12 hour flight, because I do stuff other than just watch the Arcos.
post #61 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

I read a lot and I can say i've never read for 10 hours straight, the most I have probably ever read straight is 4 or 5 hours, try it sometime it's not as 'easy' as you think

Agreed, I was more commenting on the fact that if you want to read for 10 hours, chances are you will be somewhere nice and comfy near a power socket and will be limited more by your eating/drinking/shitting requirements, than by the battery...
post #62 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

You have answered your own question. Compatibility is mainly an illusion, even between versions of Word on the same platform.

The only compatibility problem I have ever run into was when I used the Mac version of Word and sent it to someone on a PC. Since switching to Pages and exporting, I have had not a single problem and my documents are typically 30-50 pages in length with imbedded images, graphs, etc. Same with Keynote...no issues at all and as an instructor, I use it very often!
However, I will say that I don't use any funky fonts. I stick with the "typical" fonts (Times, Ariel, Courier, Lucida, etc). If you're going to start using the less common fonts I would think your chances for universal compatibility begin to decrease.
post #63 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The OP is looking if Microsoft Word will run on the iPad, he might need it for his job. We all know formatting doesn't move over smoothly from different programs and he might have to save as a Word for others to use. Also he might need to save files to disk or USB key, both the iPad doesn't have.

Word isn't available on the iPad, it could take Microsoft years to come out with a version if ever.

Telling him to buy a iPad and wait for a Word App is bad advice, it's best he get a Mac Mini and the OfficeMac suit.

Later if the iPad better suits his needs he can get one.


Try reading the OP first please, thank you!

When I said "wait", I obvoiusly didn't mean to not do what you need to do in the meantime. But if this isn't a required product, and no product is really required, just desired for various reasons, then other ways will suffice, even if the portability is desired.

But for the average person wanting to buy this, it's different. I would imagine that most people buying this will already have a computer, so this isn't necessary, just an addition, as it will be with us.

But in a couple of years, it may be different. Considering that you can do the app store very well on this, as well as on almost any other computer, you may not have to sync it to a computer at all. If, and right now, it's a big if, the adapters that Apple has for this will allow a small USB drive, then back-ups are possible without using the "cloud". Or, if Apple gets Mobileme working the way it would be useful for people with this, then that could be used. but, right now, I'm not thrilled about cloud storage of sensitive information. Maybe in the future.

This thing has a lot of potential.

What I've found interesting is that people at the introduction who said they were skeptical before they actually got to use it were transformed by the experience. Two PSmag editors who weren't there, the day before it came out, said that it wouldn't be popular, and couldn't see a use for it.

The two who went to the presentation and used it said just the opposite.

Interesting.
post #64 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffe View Post

The Nexus One has a handy app showing where you battery juice is leaking from. The screen takes over 50% of available power in all the screenshots I have seen of this.

Bearing in mind that the phone is sitting there with a network connection constantly polling the net for phone calls and emails, and all these background apps that I keep hearing about I expect the percentage of power use by the iPad to be much greater, as the underlying chippery will be much the same, be in use less (no phone mast polling) and the screen is what, 6 times the size? Wouldn't surprise me if the screen is zapping 80%+ of available juice. Whether it's the screen, the capacitive elements, or the backlit LED is irrelevant.

When they say "screen, in the case of the Nexus One, they are not talking about an LCD panel. You know that it uses an AMOLED, don't you? There is no backlight for an AMOLED, because it generates its own light.

An LCD screen is very different. And the statement was that an IPS panel used more power than other LCD displays. I pointed out that LCD panels use very little power, it's the backlight that uses it.

Now, you're changing the argument.
post #65 of 160
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Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

"beginning to?"

Sent you private message.

excuse me? why do you feel the need to broadcast the fact you sent a private message? how is this of any benefit to forum readers? at all.

Anyway, I am really excited for the iPad, the more I hear the more I like it
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post #66 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

When they say "screen, in the case of the Nexus One, they are not talking about an LCD panel. You know that it uses an AMOLED, don't you? There is no backlight for an AMOLED, because it generates its own light.

An LCD screen is very different. And the statement was that an IPS panel used more power than other LCD displays. I pointed out that LCD panels use very little power, it's the backlight that uses it.

Now, you're changing the argument.

I wasn't getting involved in any argument, much less changing it

I was merely providing anecdotal evidence that by and large it's the screen that is the biggest drain on the battery in this sort of device. And that I expect that to be a bigger issue in the iPad than in smaller devices, due to the relatively similar internal architectures being used for broadly similar tasks, yet massively large screen.

This is how they are getting 10 hours usage with the screen on, and 6 days with it off.

That's all.
post #67 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

How well do fonts and formatting transfer over? I've found that even Office on Windows to Office for mac has had some fonts that are not recognized. I think I was using Office 2003 on Windows and 2004 for mac at the time.


If your sharing with others and they require to edit it, like at work, it's best to use the same machine and software version they are using. So everyone see's and can work on the same thing.

If your getting files from others and not sending them out, you can chose what you want depending how complex the files are and if they can be imported or not. If your willing to tweak things or not. Usually spreadsheets and word documents come over with little disturbance, the others is less so.

If your sending stuff out highly formatted, it's best to use the what everyone else uses or PDF it and nobody can edit it.

If you PDF it, then you can use what you want. They are not going to be able to change it anyway.
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post #68 of 160
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Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

As an accountant and I am sure for millions of other business people- no Excel app - 100%, NO deal.

Could you PLEASE go back to your crap netbook and PC? How many people have to tell ya: Apple doesn't give a flyin'-F whether YOU buy the tablet or not? So why should WE?
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post #69 of 160
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Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Could you PLEASE go back to your crap netbook and PC? How many people have to tell ya: Apple doesn't give a flyin'-F whether YOU buy the tablet or not? So why should WE?

Yeah, get lost Tekstud, there's no room on this website for people who disagree with people!
post #70 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Could you PLEASE go back to your crap netbook and PC? How many people have to tell ya: Apple doesn't give a flyin'-F whether YOU buy the tablet or not? So why should WE?

Easy dude, jesus.

Excel is widely used in the business world, it can't be gotten around. Apple even sells it on Mac's.

He was just making a point, that the iPad needs OfficeMac App or something.

No need to act like a rapid fanboy.
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post #71 of 160
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Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

"The journalist said he would need to save it as a Microsoft Word document, though, because his editors "don't know anything about Pages.""

Why does the pages file format even exist? Why couldn't Apple (who supposedly love open standards) have used ODF? Or at least have made pages a simple wrapper for ODF. You can't even export in ODF. Almost no one uses Pages and it's not compatible with any other program.

Not compatible? I can read word documents and do a save as to save them back as word documents or I can export them to PDF, Word, RTF or plain text so this makes a good choice as a word alternative. As a bonus I can read all my old powerpoints into Keynote and use them and also add features (I could export them back as powerpoints if I wanted). I have been doing this on my mac for several years. Seems like a good choice for the iPad (but I think it would be even better if it was just bundled with the product).
post #72 of 160
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Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Yeah, get lost Tekstud, there's no room on this website for people who disagree with people!

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post #73 of 160
Textedit and Wordpad on the Mac and PC respectively open and save word files. Have you ever tried this for any serious work? Just throwing that out there for you

I don't see pages as anything but a home, or maybe small office tool. And I'm a fan, I have it. At work I use Office 2007, and it does things that iWork can only dream of (Excel maintaining data connections to libraries of XML files in Sharepoint being a prime example). MS Office whups ass for business, always will. But I like to leave work at work, and I use iWork at home and am really happy with it. What personal MS Offfice files I had have transferred across OK over the years with a bit of fiddling, and if ever I need to send them out to other people, they are getting PDF and liking it. I'm not running MS Office on my own equipment just to make it easier for other people to read my shit.

I'll get Pages for iPad when I get an iPad (maybe next year, new phone first I think), and I'll likely not be limited in what I can do with it. I'm more concerned that it supports Pages 09 native, than Word.
post #74 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Who knows Microsoft may port Word to the tablet. They already have a Mac version which uses many of the same APIs.

Possibly... but I think "port" is the wrong term to use. In order for any productivity application to make sense on a tablet... the entire user interface really has to be rethought and recreated from the ground up.

That's why the "doesn't run OS X" complaint is so foolish. OS X is designed for use with a mouse and keyboard. You can't just put it on a tablet and say "okay, done". Well... you COULD... like Windows on that new HP Tablet. But it would be far from ideal and it doesn't take the power of multitouch into account. This is a different interaction model and as such it requires (and can greatly benefit from) a different kind of interface.

I'm very curious about the idea of everything being app-focused... with no file system exposed to the user at all. As a geek... of course... that doesn't work for me. But for 95% of computer users... it's probably a whole lot more user-friendly and intuitive.
post #75 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

They learned lessons all right from what Bergermeister's poll showed them.
P.S. BTW, I can hardly imagine an editor who would agree to receive MS Word document.
P.P.S. I'd be hugely obliged to Steve, if he explained to that ummm... interviewer how to physically export created documents (DOC, PDF, "whatever") from iPad...

Gee, I'd like to meet your publisher. My insists on RTF/DOC files from Word (though they sometimes use openoffice to process them).

The funny part is that I write my books with Framemaker and the publisher uses Framemaker to lay out the book. But all the iterative editing is done with DOC files. So I'm constantly converting between RTF and FM files.
post #76 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

"The journalist said he would need to save it as a Microsoft Word document, though, because his editors "don't know anything about Pages.""

Why does the pages file format even exist? Why couldn't Apple (who supposedly love open standards) have used ODF? Or at least have made pages a simple wrapper for ODF. You can't even export in ODF. Almost no one uses Pages and it's not compatible with any other program.


ODF would have been the way to go.

So in Pages one will have to save as a Word doc, as a lot of open source office programs can import in that format.
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post #77 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

How well do fonts and formatting transfer over? I've found that even Office on Windows to Office for mac has had some fonts that are not recognized. I think I was using Office 2003 on Windows and 2004 for mac at the time.

Macros also fail to make the translation from Windows to Mac.
post #78 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

iWork = MS Office
iWork for iPad = $30
iWork > MS Office
No need for MS Office

They are both office suites but they are from equating to each other in usage needs and there is no way that iWork is "greater than" MS Office for the vast majority of people. Even for Office for Mac pales in comparison to Office for Windows when it comes to shear number of apps and complexity of apps. Just like Windows, Office has its place, especially in the Enterprise, and is far from being unseated by a consumer-based option.
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post #79 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

You didn't know iWork exports Word Excel and PowerPoint?

Really?

I know that iWork for the Mac exports the MS document formats. What I had no assurance of was that iWork for the iPad does the same thing.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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post #80 of 160
[CENTER]There's little doubt that I'll be buying an iPad 64gb/3G ASAP, but still...

I don't find the entire iPad experience to be very 'game changing' in the least, but that 140 hour music playback claim is just incredible, and clearly sets some kind of benchmark on a device of this kind.

[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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