or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Microsoft, Nokia, Nintendo take shots at Apple's iPad debut
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Microsoft, Nokia, Nintendo take shots at Apple's iPad debut - Page 9

post #321 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

I seriously don't know why you even care to raise an issue. As I wrote earlier, Jobs statement was for financial analysts and developers. Who else gives a crap? Excluding Nokia, that is.

Meh. Unfortunately, statements like that tend to drive the fanboyism to rabid levels. I just get annoyed with misleading statements.

I love my Mac. But increasingly, I am disappointed that my fellow Mac fans seem to give Apple and Steve a pass when they say or do something less than par. You know if Gates or Ballmer had made a statement like that, people on here would have been all over it, about how it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Why can't Jobs be held to the same standard?
post #322 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

It's not the size. It's the function of the device. If all that's going to be allowed are apps that are allowed on the iPhone or productivity suites that are on par with iPhone tools, then the iPad will be less of a computer and more of an oversized iPod Touch. I have no problem with that. But let's not pretend this is an amazing platform if that's all that's coming to market.

But that is the point, even if its an oversized iPod touch (size only), it is an amazing platform precisely because it'll have access to thousands of newly-created apps that take advantage of multitouch on that big screen (instead of the iPhone/iPod Touch size screen). Joe Hewitt just wrote about this on the link I provided in this thread earlier. It's precisely the additional real estate (as well as new multitouch gestures) that will make for many more tools. So when you boil it down, it is the size which leads to more function. The iBook Store and iWork exists for the iPad and not the iPhone precisely because of its size.

Quote:
The company that wanted to give you one device in your pocket (instead of an iPod and a phone) now wants you to have two in your briefcase (iPad and Macbook).

Let's divide the market into two. Those who already have a computer (Windows, Mac, Linux), and those who don't. For those who already have a computer (desktop or laptop, doesn't matter), many were looking for a smaller laptop, thus the excitement over netbooks. Apple wants to sell you an iPad instead because most didn't want the smaller laptop to do everything that their other computer could do anyway.

For those who don't, Apple wants to sell you an iPad as something that is simple enough and maintenance-free enough that you will think of it as an appliance and just use it. But the model here is incomplete, as the iPad so far has only been shown to sync to a computer. So it's my belief, Apple will soon allow syncing to its MobileMe cloud or a revamped TimeCapsule-like or AppleTV product.

In either case, Apple also expects that you'll have a cellphone, and Apple wants to sell you an iPhone as your next upgrade. So in Apple's eyes, you'll have an iPhone and an iPad. Or an iPhone and an iPad and a computer (preferably a Mac).
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #323 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Meh. Unfortunately, statements like that tend to drive the fanboyism to rabid levels. I just get annoyed with misleading statements.

I love my Mac. But increasingly, I am disappointed that my fellow Mac fans seem to give Apple and Steve a pass when they say or do something less than par. You know if Gates or Ballmer had made a statement like that, people on here would have been all over it, about how it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Why can't Jobs be held to the same standard?

Why is it not an apples-to-apples comparison?

Are you just trying to say there's an issue because Jobs redefined what mobile devices are? Jobs specifically qualified his statement by saying he was including laptops and only discussing revenue. He didn't try to fool anyone.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #324 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

I agree that there is a concern. Although it's like an appliance, it will be taking a spot that used to be occupied partially by many things including a computer, so those expectations might linger. But once again, it turns on how Apple handles the App Store. So rather than get all worked up now, I'm willing to wait and see how that goes. If Apple gets too restrictive, and users become unhappy, I would predict that sales would start to slow, and Apple would be wise enough to plot a new course.

I am disappointed because I am more pessimistic than you. I just don't see it happening. I really believe that the only reason flash isn't on the idevices is because Apple does not want a competitive threat to its app store. Who would download games from the app store if Farmville is a click away? Or TV shows from iTunes, if you could just go to NBC instead?

That's why these restrictions concern me. And I don't think Apple will adjust course (at least as long as Jobs is in power). They'll keep the restrictions on. And hope that more sites develop without Flash. Or that users will just accept being able to use only the browser that's provided. I wish the networks would call Apple's bluff and build up websites that are fully compatible with the iPhone and allow users to get all the TV shows while bypassing iTunes. At the end of the day, we know that however locked the device is, it'll sell a million or two easily in a year. That's why Apple won't really care. And sadly, that really cripples some of the potential of the device....guess I may not be able to ditch that old laptop after all! I just play Mafia Wars too much!
post #325 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post


Let's divide the market into two. Those who already have a computer (Windows, Mac, Linux), and those who don't. For those who already have a computer (desktop or laptop, doesn't matter), many were looking for a smaller laptop, thus the excitement over netbooks. Apple wants to sell you an iPad instead because most didn't want the smaller laptop to do everything that their other computer could do anyway.

For those who don't, Apple wants to sell you an iPad as something that is simple enough and maintenance-free enough that you will think of it as an appliance and just use it. But the model here is incomplete, as the iPad so far has only been shown to sync to a computer. So it's my belief, Apple will soon allow syncing to its MobileMe cloud or a revamped TimeCapsule-like or AppleTV product.

In either case, Apple also expects that you'll have a cellphone, and Apple wants to sell you an iPhone as your next upgrade. So in Apple's eyes, you'll have an iPhone and an iPad. Or an iPhone and an iPad and a computer (preferably a Mac).

Interesting take. And I agree that they are trying to use the iPad to lower the barrier of entry into the Apple ecosystem while hooking you in so that you buy entirely into the ecosystem. It'll be interesting to see if it works. Though I do think we are far more likely to see these combinations: iphone/iPad/Windows PC or iPhone/iPad/MacBook.

I do appreciate the iPad for what it is: a really awesome media consumption device. Which for most of the population these days, is a fairly satisfactory replacement for a computer.
post #326 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Hello there, If you browse a lot facebook games it will indeed be a problem.

i will not be shocked to have ipad versions of those games ready by release time. linking into your facebook account so you can flip back and forth as you wish.

in fact, unless they cut it recently the CS5 beta had a flash to iphone app convertor. so these companies get their hands on the betas and in a day they would have their app, and Apple is going to be pushing to get as many ipad native apps and upgrades ready for the launch as they can. they probably doubled staff to push approvals and are doing everything they can to encourage developers to update rather than be happy with black box and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

There is way too much complaining about what the iPad cannot do.

keeping in mind that no one has touched one. Why not wait until you actually hold one to talk about what it can and can't do and is it good enough for you or not.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #327 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Well... I'm one of those 75 mils and gess what - I'm not that happy with missing flash. So is my wife - can't play Facebook games on her iPhone. A colleague of mine would like flash as well, got very excited with perspective (probably false) that iPhone OS4 will support flash.

I could continue about most of the people I know having iPhone, but you should have got my point so far. 75 million users doesn't by default mean 75 million fully satisfied users. There is always space for improvement, and there is always danger competition will improve faster.

So why did I got iPhone at all? Well, when I was looking for new phone (September 2009) my estimate was that iPhone was the best overall device for me. Lack of Flash was minus, but Stanza, decent email client, well executed chat and address book sold it to me. At the end, screen size limitation is making iPhone browsing matter of necessity, not first choice. When I browse on iPhone, it is usually quick search for some text information, be it Wiki or any other source. If I want to browse for "experience" (look for house to buy or rent, check review of new car...) I'll use computer as, even without Flash on web pages, iPhone screen is too small for real web experience.

Thus lack of Flash is minus, but considering way I browse on iPhone, it is not that big.

But... iPad screen is big enough for full experience browsing. Big enough to show most web pages without resizing, zooming in an out... so I can see myself doing most of my browsing on device like iPad. Since I would browse on iPad not only for information, but also for experience, I feel that lack of Flash would be much more noticeable - and much more annoying, for me.

fuck flash
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #328 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Nobody is going to give an iPod Touch or an iPhone to an 8 or even a 10 year old.

Umm, it's already happening. Search for it in Google and you'll find stories in multiple newspapers and magazines about iPod Touch being given to even 5 year olds. I should add that my 10 year old is waiting for his iPod touch (at least, I'm making him wait for the one with the camera.) He's already asked me to sell all his DS games so he can use the money to buy more App Store games.

By the way, Apple sold about 17m iPod touch units worldwide over the last 9 months of 2009. Nintendo sold about 23.5m units of both DS Lite and DSi worldwide over the same time period.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #329 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I am disappointed because I am more pessimistic than you. I just don't see it happening. I really believe that the only reason flash isn't on the idevices is because Apple does not want a competitive threat to its app store. Who would download games from the app store if Farmville is a click away? Or TV shows from iTunes, if you could just go to NBC instead?

Oops. I've already accepted that Flash will never come to iPad or iPhone for whatever reason.

So read my earlier post as having already excluded Flash.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #330 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

Umm, it's already happening. Search for it in Google and you'll find stories in multiple newspapers and magazines about iPod Touch being given to even 5 year olds.

My neighbor's kid is 5 and he's got an iPod Touch and loves it.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #331 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

Umm, it's already happening. Search for it in Google and you'll find stories in multiple newspapers and magazines about iPod Touch being given to even 5 year olds. I should add that my 10 year old is waiting for his iPod touch (at least, I'm making him wait for the one with the camera.) He's already asked me to sell all his DS games so he can use the money to buy more App Store games.

By the way, Apple sold about 17m iPod touch units worldwide over the last 9 months of 2009. Nintendo sold about 23.5m units of both DS Lite and DSi worldwide over the same time period.

One other thing I just looked up: The iPod touch began sales in Sep 2007. In its first 27 months (thru 12-09), it sold 33m units worldwide. The DS family (DS, DS Lite, DSi) began sales in Nov 2004. In its first 26 months, it sold 35m units worldwide. So the sales trajectories are very similar.

If you allow for the iPhone, Apple is way ahead - 75m in 30 months (vs. 40m for DS).
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #332 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I am disappointed because I am more pessimistic than you. I just don't see it happening. I really believe that the only reason flash isn't on the idevices is because Apple does not want a competitive threat to its app store. Who would download games from the app store if Farmville is a click away? Or TV shows from iTunes, if you could just go to NBC instead?

I think you're off base here, and not just by a little bit. For at least two reasons.

Firstly, the App store and the iBook store, as extensions of iTMS, exist to help Apple sell hardware. That's their business model, and it's little if any different from how they sell computers. Mac OSX exists to sell Macs. iWork and iLife exist to sell Macs. Do you really believe that the $79 price tag on iLife and iWork covers development and maintenance costs plus Apple's famous 30 something percent margin?

It's no different on the mobile side. Apple maintains that they operate iTMS at slightly above break even. This question was again asked and answered at the earnings conference call last Monday. Check it out for yourself. Most of the revenues from iTMS go to the content providers. Apple's take is enough to cover their infrastructure and give them a small profit for their effort. The main point, from Apples's perspective, is to maintain an ecosystem that adds perceived value to iPods, iPhones, and now the iPad.

There are other benefits as well, such as enabling Apple to better control the user experience by not allowing apps that would degrade performance or create security risks, etc, but this is an aside to your theory regarding Flash.

Think about this, if Apple's primary intent was to make money from iTMS, why then were they so resistant to allowing the music companies to raise the price of music downloads? Apple wants as much content as they can get, and they want it to be affordable. They even promote free apps on the app store. Why? To sell more iPhones and iPod Touches, that's why.

The second point is your forced correlation of Flash with free content. In reality, there is none. Flash can be used to stream video content for fee just as easily as it can be used to stream video content for free. I have no doubt that there is plenty of Flash content being delivered for profit. The other side of the coin is that Flash is not required to stream video at all. Microsoft has streaming technology and Real probably does as well (if they're still in business). Neither of these solutions likely work with iPhone OS, but Quicktime server sure does. You can license QT server and stream free video to your heart's content.

I'm sure Apple will be more than happy to sell you an iPhone, iPod Touch, and soon, an iPad, for you to do nothing but surf free sites with. They make their money selling hardware.
post #333 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

You Macheads really are passionate defenders of the faith aren't you?

Yes, we are. Do you have a point?
post #334 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

You dont sell a product with the tag name "The Best Web Browsing Experience Available" .....

And you would get the Moron of the Year award if you buy nonsense like that. I am sure you didn't buy the tag line. So, would other smart people buy it, and if so, why?
post #335 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's a rather useless comparison.

That may be, or not, but it's a rather useless point.

You can't question SJ's conclusion based on the specific assumption he made. Given his assumption, he is exactly right in what he said. That's the fact. Get over it. Move along (I can't understand why you're so incapable of it).
post #336 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I am disappointed because I am more pessimistic than you. I just don't see it happening. I really believe that the only reason flash isn't on the idevices is because Apple does not want a competitive threat to its app store. Who would download games from the app store if Farmville is a click away? Or TV shows from iTunes, if you could just go to NBC instead?

That's why these restrictions concern me.

Do you own Apple shares?
post #337 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

..so until I see the Kindle and other ebook readers available for the iPad...

Um, they stated multiple times your iPhone apps will sync right over and be useable from day 1.

Are you implying they will block the existing Kindle iPhone app from syncing to the iPad, or is this just more "Apple is evil" speculation that never comes to fruit?
post #338 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

The moment someone sees the missing flash plugin icon, clicks on it, then finds out they can't install flash, then the platform is closed.

Interesting that you equate closed with not being able to install Flash.

That's Flash the closed, proprietary, accessibility hostile, largely unnecessary, resource hog?
post #339 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

fuck flash

Concise, to the point and..................... SPOT ON!
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #340 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Show me some site and statistics on this one PLEASE cause im calling you full of it.

I don't have to - multiple leading video sites were linked in this thread. If you look around HTML5 is buzzing all over the place. Flash's days are numbered. It's already irrelevant to my browsing experience on my MBP - I rarely whitelist or authorize a flash app to run.


Quote:
Really, because it wasnt until recently i think that Apple made it so your music can be DRM free and not tethered to only iTunes. But good way to throw something in there i wasnt really talking about.

Music sold from iTunes - until recently when Apple was able to convince the record companies to drop DRM - did have DRM. But the first 50 gigs of music I put on my iPod came from CD's and MP3's I had. I didn't buy my first iTunes track for almost a year after I had my first iPod and was using it successfully.

And you were talking about it because you were making these typically unfounded claims about Apple being "closed"...

Quote:
I wonder if it will be for free, because i sure as hell doubt Apple's will be.

Maybe, maybe not. They have also acquired their own mobile ad network company as well.

Quote:
Streaming/buying paid content from a provider and being able to get the SAME CONTENT FOR FREE from some website online is what can hurt Apple

Not if the paid streaming is reasonable and ad free. You may be willing to tolerate ads for free, but if there is a reasonably priced streaming option that's ad free, I'll happily pay to be ad free. There's lots of room in here. And netflix is available in non-silverlight streams - there is nothing to say that the current free guys that rely on flash or silverlight couldn't offer something else if it was worth it to them. It's just software...

Quote:
(Apple has the most to lose unlike Palm/RIM/Android with no established media stores).

Again, you are assuming Apple's media sales are key to it's bottom line. While they are there, they aren't as key to Apple as they are to, say, Amazon with the Kindle.

Quote:
Remember Flash goes beyond just music and videos but also into apps and games...and that conveniently steps right on Apples toes yet again

Not really. Apps and games that were flash only have somehow managed to make their way onto the iPhone (look at the flurry of activity from the likes of PopCap). Flash is no longer the 200lb gorilla of the internet. Add 10 million iPads and things will be dire indeed for Flash.

Quote:
Yeah, it renders it moot...in 10 years.

Hang on to that dream - HTML5 is going to be a whirl-wind adoption that will make CSS look like a fad

Quote:
How about we get a standard out that consumers can AND DO use today and implement for tomorrow at the same time? That to me seems like a common sense standpoint no?

HTML 5 is here today. Even Microsoft is getting into the groove with HTML 5.

Quote:
You're also assuming that Flash/Silverlight will literally be standing still for the next 10 years, neither of us know so dont even dare try to act like you do.

Your assuming it will matter that they will not be standing still. I won't care because I won't be using them

Microsoft was able to steamroll over earlier browser vendors with pure market dominance and their muddying of the waters and Internet standards allowed Flash to step into the void. That's no longer the case.
post #341 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's a rather useless comparison. Apple is getting the profits of both the hardware and software from a sale. MS only gets the software profits.

Sounds like a flawed model for the long term, no?

Quote:
If you want to add up both the hardware and software profits from all Windows laptops, that'd be a much fairer comparison.

How so? Microsoft doesn't see that hardware revenue.

Quote:
And then I think the numbers would show a fairly different picture.

Yup, an inaccurate one!

Quote:
There's no doubt Apple is a huge player in mobile devices. I am not disputing that. I don't take issue with cherry-picking stats to suit their marketing. How convenient for Jobs to compare all mobile devices that Apple sells to a company that pretty much sells only mobile phones or one that sells only gaming devices. If Nokia started selling music players and laptops, it'd be a fair revenue comparison.

As others pointed out, Nokia does sell laptops. It won't matter, by this time next year Apple will surpass Nokia in revenue with just the iPhone/iPad. Notice I said revenue - you can focus on market share if you like, but hi marketshare/low profit devices don't bring in the revenue and in more ways than one.

Nokia is in serious trouble and they know it.
post #342 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I'd say your original comment was the stupid one (if we are going to start throwing insults around)



I'm not surprised Adobe is upset that the iPad still doesn't support flash.

Boo frigging hoo. Flash gained popularity due to limitations in HTML - those limitations are no longer there.

Despite the protesting (I like the metric of the louder the protesting the more successful an Apple product will be - genius!), the iPad will be successful and there will be even more pressure on sites to ditch flash - at least as the only method for navigating them.

I see this as a good thing. I look back at the howls of protest on Apple dropping the floppy and adopting this crazy "USB" technology.

Well, the protesting for the floppy was ridiculous because even back then there weren't many individual files that fit easily on a floppy never mind doing any kind of useful project work off of floppies. People just wanted them because they have always been there.

I'm FINALLY starting to see PC's that are completely legacy free be the norm rather than the exception. USB has been well entrenched for almost 8 years (due to the iMac no less) and ps/2 ports (PS/2!) are still floating around out there. I still run across things that require serial and parallel ports (and new devices - not stuff hanging around for 9 years).

The bottom line, without companies like Apple pushing boundaries and taking chances there would be few others pushing technology forward. Just look at the stagnation in the PC industry - other than faster CPU's, bigger hard drives and more memory you hardly ever see anything radical from the PC manufacturers. If you look at the directions Apple has pushed the industry (and not just in computers, look at the mess of commercial digital music before iTunes) you should be embracing Apple's willingness to try to "move the puck" - even if you don't care about using their products.

There are plenty of other companies doing things the "traditional" way - go use their products. Stop trying to ridicule Apple for doing something different from everyone else. Thank goodness they don't pay attention to people like you and keep on doing their thing.

GREAT POST, i couldn't have said it any better!!!
post #343 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Yep, and I am sure every one of those apps is truly useful and entertaining (obligatory fart app reference).

Yes, because one mans fart app is another mans holy grail. I'm glad you are so plugged into the needs of everyone you can make such substantial and informed judgements about the quality of a whole ecosystem.

Quote:
Aside from that, what does the number of app downloads have to do with my argument that a closed platform is handicapped?

Well, I dunno - handicapped implies impeded, crippled, hobbled... and the App store has been the single biggest success for any kind of applications store on any platform. Ever.

In three years it's generated more revenue for mobile applications developers than all other platforms - some that have been in existence for over 10 years and are "open".

If that kind of success is what you consider "handicapped", to quote another movie "You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means."

Quote:
It's difficult to argue a negative. How much would downloads have been if Apple had opened up the platform more?

It's hard to argue the theoretical - there is just as much a chance that it would be exactly the same or less. There is no way to know for sure. That's what makes baseless speculation on the Internet so much fun!

Quote:
What I am concerned about in this case, is that Apple is selling a computer with restrictions we have not really seen before.

Except it's not a "computer" in the traditional sense. It's more an appliance or unique platform. It's something new entirely.

Quote:
Can you imagine for example, Apple approving what software you can install on your mac?

No, because it's not going to happen. And it doesn't happen on the iPhone either. Yes, there are some cases where Apple has rejected apps like Google voice, but I suspect most of those have been because of agreements with AT&T. It will be interesting to see if things change with the iPad - esp. with wifi only models.

Quote:
On the iPhone it might have been excusable because of issues and concerns about the impact on the cellular network.

It wasn't just that - it was also the possible impact of crappy code on the user experience. Sadly there is far to many examples of bad code on Windows and even Mac OSX.

Quote:
On the iPod Touch it might have been tolerable because they wanted to avoid duplication and keep one app store for the the ITouch and the iPhone.

Huh? This never happened nor was it EVER implied, except in kooky threads like this on the Internet.

Quote:
On the iPad that's quite a stretch.

What's a stretch is your tortured logic. What's the point of wanting something different, and then complaining when it isn't like every other piece of equipment out there? If you don't like Apple's model, then don't buy it! Run to Android or whatever other system more floats your boat. But I (and millions of others) happen to like the direction Apple is going in true computing appliances.

It's about time someone focuses on the overall user experience and you can't do that without accountability from everyone. The App store enforces that. It's a good thing.

Quote:
's not the size. It's the function of the device. If all that's going to be allowed are apps that are allowed on the iPhone or productivity suites that are on par with iPhone tools, then the iPad will be less of a computer and more of an oversized iPod Touch.

Says someone who has yet to hold one in his hands, see the final version or see how developers react to it.



Your pretty cocksure about a whole lot of hypotheticals that rely on some pretty fantastic assumptions - esp. given Apple's track record over the last 10 years.

Quote:
I have no problem with that. But let's not pretend this is an amazing platform if that's all that's coming to market.

It is an amazing platform coming to market.

The really wonderful thing is it will still be an amazing platform coming to market despite myopic people such as yourself not believing so

Quote:
I am concerned though that people seem to be thinking that this more a netbook replacement than a giant portable DVD player/net browser/e-reader all in one.

People will think what they want to - at their own peril. The iPhone morphed way beyond what even I imagined for it. With the advances in the iPad, in a year we are going to look back and go "damn!" for stuff that we can't even conceive of right now that will no doubt come popping out of the woodwork. Just like it happened with the original iPhone. When you give developers fertile ground with low barriers to entry, amazing thinks happen. They aren't even relying on lightening to strike twice since the iPad is an evolution of an existing, wildly successful model.

Quote:
But let's not pretend it's going to be able to do all that my old laptop did.

I don't think any has implied that - Apple certainly hasn't, they were very clear about where they see the iPad.

Quote:
This is no productivity machine.

Careful grasshopper - productivity is in the eye of the beholder.

Quote:
Even the iWorks Touch package is just a sop to sell the "productivity" aspect. Is anybody really going to write papers or edit spreadsheets or make whole presentations on here?

Why not? If I had a proper fold out keyboard for my iPhone like I had with my Palm Pilot, I would be taking notes on it in meetings instead of paper or my (ugh) work laptop. We already know the iPad will have keyboard support. Right now it looks like it can easily do 80% of what the average office work (and I count myself in that category) can do these days. It will be interesting to see just how far it can be pushed.

Quote:
In a pinch, maybe. But most will do it on a real computer and use this thing for last minute changes or to display their work.

Again, I think you are seriously lacking in imagination. I guess we will see when it ships (when it ships - that has a nice ring vs. all the previous vaporware in this category from other manufacturers).

Quote:
Agreed. And smart move by Apple. If they added anymore functionality they would have cannibalized their macbook sales. Amazing. The company that wanted to give you one device in your pocket (instead of an iPod and a phone) now wants you to have two in your briefcase (iPad and Macbook)

But see, I rarely need a Macbook when I am on the go. When I go on travel, I no longer take a notebook with me - my iPhone does almost everything I need. An iPad will definitely do everything I need and then some. I regret buying my MBP now - although I will still have uses for it, if I do get an iPad my MBP will see *allot* less action.

Quote:
Is the attitude really necessary? Keep your fanboy in your pants.

It's not being a fanboy, it's a fact. There are far more non-technical users who haven't been touched by computing, or are barely using "computers" (just like my father) than there are of you and I.

Steve acknowledged as much several years back when he declared the desktop wars over and MS the winner. He's right. I think the success of the iPod woke Apple up to a new and untapped market that is orders of magnitude larger than traditional computers (desktops, laptops, netbooks, etc.) Everything with the iPhone, the SDK, the iPod Touch and now the iPad is marching relentlessly to domination of this sector. The debut of the Apple designed A4 CPU in the iPad is huge. Now not only will vendors not be able to re-create Apple's software ecosystem easily, they won't be able to slap some off-the-shelf parts together and get 90% the way towards what Apple is doing. Here is where Apple will really step away from the pack and start to leave them in the dust. The gap will just widen more dramatically with each generation. The tight integration of Apple's hardware and software will become even more of a self-reinforcing loop than it already is.

Meanwhile you can't even call Google on the phone to get support for Android? And that's a threat? Once Android hits geek saturation, where is it going to grow to? Users like my father certainly won't be buying one!
post #344 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Nokia could only make non-smartphones and that business alone would make them more profits on phones than Apple. Hardly a dead dinosaur.

You can get a 3G for $99.

How much longer are most people going to accept "non smartphones"?

No one has ever survived by clinging to the bottom - and if they manage to, it's never pretty.

Quote:
They'll always have their market. Nobody is going to give an iPod Touch or an iPhone to an 8 or even a 10 year old.

Ha! You haven't seen the crazy yuppie parents around me! I see kids with them in restaurants all the time (and I'm surprised how many end up being iPhones and not "just" iPod Touches)

Quote:
And that network gaming feature on an Nintendo DS is a big draw for kids. Ultimately though, with kids it's what other kids have that determines the popularity of a device.

With the opening up of the dock connector, I am really surprised that many of the case/sleds with arcade style buttons haven't caught on. Probably has something to do with restrictions on the input manager that don't allow keyboards Perhaps with the debut of the keyboard on the iPad this will trickle back to the iPod and iPod touch and finally allow broad support for accessories like these. If so, the DS is truly toast.

Quote:
I have yet to see a group of grade schoolers huddle together with their iPod Touches. If I was 10 today, I'd want a DS over an iTouch. Teenagers? Different story altogether.

For right now, sure. But trends change. Kids are fickle - just ask any parent
post #345 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I do appreciate the iPad for what it is: a really awesome media consumption device. Which for most of the population these days, is a fairly satisfactory replacement for a computer.

media consumption devices aren't in and of themselves very interesting. If they were, existing products from companies like Creative would be far more popular.

The iPad is much more than a simple media consumption device. That's what makes it so interesting.
post #346 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


Don't get me wrong, Apple's been doing an impressive job and at the pace they are going, they will be #1 very quickly (at least in revenue)

Regs, Jarkko

At least in revenue? .... At least in revenue? ... for crying out loud dude, these companies all exist for the same reason .... to show a profit. What other criteria means diddly squat?
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #347 of 429
So do I, on my iPhone, it's a bit hard on the small screen but it's definitely playable and you can do pretty much everything.

Fight, do jobs, bank, collect from businesses, enter the daily draw, upgrade, accept people into your family, buy things, post on your wall, it's all their and a lot more fun than planting carrots in Farmville.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I just play Mafia Wars too much!
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #348 of 429
I agree entirely, where did all the Adobe shareholders come from?

It's the only explanation I can come up with for such blind devotion to a proprietry, closed system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

fuck flash
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #349 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

What other criteria means diddly squat?

A surprising amount of people seem to be hung up on market share for some reason
post #350 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


But let's not pretend this is an amazing platform if that's all that's coming to market.

I'm not going to bother responding to your complete post because others have already done so but I think I can offer a different slant on this whole iPad thing. You see, I think the biggest competitor to Apple out there is .... Apple itself. Let me explain.

Go back in time to a few days before the iPhone was launched in 2007. There were no smartphones, as we know them today ... no multi-touch devices ... a completely different landscape from today. Then Apple comes along and introduces .... not the iPhone, but the iPad.
The marketplace would have hailed this iPad thingy as the most revolutionary device since sliced bread. Sales would have skyrocketed. Imagine, reading a book or surfing the net at the beach, listening to music, showing off photos of your kids, watching videos ... all on the same device. Sales would have skyrocketed.

Now fast forward 18 months or so to another Apple "special event" where Apple states that the hugely successful iPad was being followed up by the iPhone. People would have been amazed yet again, to see all that wonder in a device that fit in your pocket and again .... sales would skyrocket.

The point is ... That Apple has set the bar so high with the iPhone, mostly because it was so far ahead of every other phone out there, it was such a giant leap forward ... that everyone, including Apple themselves ... are having difficulty repeating that much separation over present day offerings. Does that make the iPad a disappointing device? Not necessarily. I just think the level of separation between the Apple iPhone/touch etc. and the iPad is not as great as the first iPhone was with it's competition at the time.

In those days Apple was only competing with the Nokias and Rims of the world. .... Now Apple has to compete with Apple, and that is a much stronger competitor. .... I think, in time, the iPad will find it's legs and will surprise a lot of us.
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #351 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

A surprising amount of people seem to be hung up on market share for some reason

Which would explain why a lot of businesses fail every year. ...Well, when you can deposit market share in the bank ... I'll be interested, until then ... as Rod Tidwell would say ..."Show me the money".
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
Reply
post #352 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

Anant corrected your Apple numbers above, but I'm not sure why you're comparing it to 8.46B EUR for Nokia. Nokia's own spokesperson only used 8.18B EUR for their devices and services comparison. The remaining NAVTEQ and network divisions were not included. Not that it really matters.

The 8.46B was the original calculation by Anant for Apple's revenue. I was trying to point the difference in the figures given by Anand, and the SEC figures that I could find. Funnily enough, the two sources have totally different figures for iPhones and iPods, but exactly the same figure for MBs.

Anand gave the link to the figures he used and thank you for that. Like I said, I couldn't find the actual document and had to rely on a synopsis of it. Facts are what I was looking for and now I have them.

Just shows that almost anyone can claim almost anything and be proven right (and wrong at the same time). And this is not meant as a stab or discredit at the claim(s), just an observation.

Regs, Jarkko
post #353 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Well done for completely missing the point.

An open system allows me to install whatever I like. Sure it's nice if people can pick apart the source, but as a non programmer all I want is the ability to install flash, firefox, photoshop, 3ds max etc etc. That's the key part, I install what I want on my hardware. Simple concept really.

And why on earth did you bring up the UK's network of spy cams? What am I expected to do about them? Seriously, what do you think I should do? Please try to at least be a little rational when arguing.

Try and be rational yourself, when you mention big Brother theory, you being very rational ..NOT. Why do you visit this site. I never gone onto a Microsoft news site to make negative comments, since I do not like using MS and what is the point, since already know that I will never use MS and do not like their software.

Btw you talk about calling people names..Hmm may want look in mirror, noticed you written a few childish ones yourself.

I know you do not have much to do during your evenings at moment (winter season) because it is so wet, cold and windy in UK right now, but maybe try use your energy for some good instead of getting your 'thrills' by thinking that your arguments in this thread will change the world, YOU make no difference with your comments to change our minds, since you come with destructive approach.

Btw: You can do something about spy cams, you and UK people just like film 'V for Vendetta'
post #354 of 429
Never ever in my life have I read something about Apple that says this.

"....and notes that quite a few pundits expected Apple's iPad to be a flop"

this was also said about the iPhone though right ?
post #355 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

fuck flash

With intelligent arguments like that, I can see why Apple decided against supporting the world wide standard for online video and interactivity.
post #356 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

With intelligent arguments like that, I can see why Apple decided against supporting the world wide standard for online video and interactivity.

Why yes - yes they did - thank you for pointing that out - we neophytes need people like yourself to point us toward the wisdom that is FLASH! - oh Glory - Glory to the almighty adobe.

NOT!

May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #357 of 429
The problem with Steve Jobs' definition of mobile devices is where do you draw the line? Are we going to see the CEO of Toyota going to stand up next week and make similar claims? After all, cars are mobile too. And full of electronics.

Jobs must have known that the world's press would take his sound-bite and repeat it without explaining his non-standard definition. It's clever but misleading.
post #358 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The problem with Steve Jobs' definition of mobile devices is where do you draw the line? Are we going to see the CEO of Toyota going to stand up next week and make similar claims? After all, cars are mobile too. And full of electronics.

Jobs must have known that the world's press would take his sound-bite and repeat it without explaining his non-standard definition. It's clever but misleading.

Toyota? - the same company that just recalled 3M of their 'mobile devices' - lol
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #359 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Just shows that almost anyone can claim almost anything and be proven right (and wrong at the same time).

Not really. In this instance, there is only one right set of numbers. Period. You don't get to pick.
post #360 of 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The problem with Steve Jobs' definition of mobile devices is where do you draw the line? Are we going to see the CEO of Toyota going to stand up next week and make similar claims? After all, cars are mobile too. And full of electronics.

Jobs must have known that the world's press would take his sound-bite and repeat it without explaining his non-standard definition. It's clever but misleading.

Now, that's a fair point. What makes it somewhat credible, however, are two facts: One, Nokia has decided to enter the mobile computing market itself, and two, the line between 'phones' and 'laptops' is blurring.

It is still some technological distance to a laptop that can physically transport me to work, or a car that can do an Excel spreadsheet. When we get there, Toyota can make the claim too, why not!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Microsoft, Nokia, Nintendo take shots at Apple's iPad debut