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Apple reinventing file access, wireless sharing for iPad - Page 9

post #321 of 508
1/30/10 at 8:55am
Why is everybody taking the approach used for a suite of integrated software offered by a manufacturer to suggest that is how this manufacturer forces you to organise all your files?

Aside from iLife, nothing else 'forces' you to work in this way. The file system 'forces' you to do nothing, you can put directories where you want, arranged how you want. There is various file management software freely available.

Apple offer a choice. The iLife way is for non-professionals who need spoon feeding and for everything to be nice and simple. No one is forcing you to do anything, to work in any specific way.

Use different software, operate your computer as you want.

The iPad is meant to be a simple device, what is being suggested by Apple re. file management is simple. We haven't seen this work, yet are criticising it.

The pad is not for professional users to create professional work, it is primarily a device for laymen consumers to browse the web, check their email, listen to tunes and play the occasional game.

If professional users want to use it, that's fine - that's great in fact - BUT - Apple is not going to structure this device and the way it works for prosumers, it's a domestic device for the everyman.

If that doesn't suit you, then don't buy the device - it's not for you.
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post #322 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

If that doesn't suit you, then don't buy the device - it's not for you.

Consumer feedback is a fantastic way to improve products. Don't criticize criticisms. It is what drives companies like Apple to do better -- to make products that have a wide range of customers from all walks of life, not just consumers, prosumers or professionals.
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post #323 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Consumer feedback is a fantastic way to improve products. Don't criticize criticisms. It is what drives companies like Apple to do better -- to make products that have a wide range of customers from all walks of life, not just consumers, prosumers or professionals.

Of course it is. I'm not criticising criticism, I'm criticising people who can't see that this device is perfect for it's intended audience.

"It must have this"
"It will fail because it doesn't have this"

It's all BS. There is a difference between constructive criticism and people screaming opinion as fact and calling Apple an incompetent company. A device can't be all things to all people. You want a full powered portable computing device - go buy a macbook. You want a handheld device for casual consumption of information - there's the iPad's role.

I do understand the lack of flash being an issue.

I don't understand the calls for a camera. When did this become a video chat device - how would you even keep it steady at a sensible angle for video chat? Put it on a desk on a stand, with a keyboard in front of it. Oh yes, I've already got that set up in front of me, it's called an iMac. And yet people criticising apple for 'missing' the camera off - were we told it was going to have one? Were we expecting this to be a telephone device? I wasn't. This device does everything i thought it would do, and some more.
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post #324 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

How about if you don't like the way that this (free) software operates, you use an alternative? The style of work you describe is not what the iLife suite is there for, it's to store and manage your media, and to have easy access to it from the other iLife applications, via the media browser.

It's not "steve's" way of working, it's just one, relatively simple way of working that no one forces you to use.

Regardless of a product's intended audience, the fact that some folks have complaints about some of its downfalls shows that this product's audience type could be be extended somewhat. It has a greater potential than was originally realized by its designer. Potential is a good thing.
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post #325 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Regardless of a product's intended audience, the fact that some folks have complaints about some of its downfalls shows that this product's audience type could be be extended somewhat. It has a greater potential than was originally realized by its designer. Potential is a good thing.

This thing has more potential than Apple imagined? Don't be ridiculous.

Regardless of how this is used in the wild, Apple excel by focussing a product to a specific audience and make sure it works for that audience, while letting third parties tailor it to their requirements, within the bounds of the device.

The iPad will fail if people like my mum can't pick it up and browse the web, and trust me - that has to be two button pushes. If prosumers/professionals use it, that's great - but their experience will be limited, no matter how much they complain. Otherwise, what will apple sell to those professionals when their first professional touch device with HD 23" screen is Launched?
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post #326 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Consumer feedback is a fantastic way to improve products. Don't criticize criticisms. It is what drives companies like Apple to do better -- to make products that have a wide range of customers from all walks of life, not just consumers, prosumers or professionals.

You're right, consumer feedback is a great way to improve products. However, any critique you might provide may be deemed irrelevant once it's revealed you have not even used said product.
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post #327 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

And don't you see that two of the platforms you mentioned run a UI alternate than the OS X UI?

Ahhh!!


If your trying to push OS X UI and people to buy Mac's, you certainly don't use a iPhone OS UI on a new device like a tablet.

Apple is not pushing OS X UI, they are pushing a closed concept using the iPhone UI and the App Store, which means eventually all Apple's computers will have this new UI.

Apple's computers will eventually just be dumb terminals, with all the processing and storage done on the "cloud".

Programs and data to be used on the "cloud" will be subject to Apple's whims and desires.

That's actually what Google wants.
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post #328 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Regardless of a product's intended audience, the fact that some folks have complaints about some of its downfalls shows that this product's audience type could be be extended somewhat. It has a greater potential than was originally realized by its designer. Potential is a good thing.

No business can appeal to everyone, nor should they try to. Apple will be just fine doing business the way they have been and their financial reports confirm this.
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post #329 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathonc1 View Post

I realize most of the people here are power users and it is difficult to get your head around the fact that 90% of the population aren't. If you are using photoshop, video editing software or other high end software, this device is not aimed at you. I find it hard to believe that people are upset that this isn't a multitouch high end macbook pro.

I though Steve did an excellent job at making this explicitly clear. 90% of the population use computers specifically for email, internet, music, photos, basic word processing, spreadsheet.... OOOOOOH HOOOOO that is exactly what this device is designed to do very well.

Sure video conferencing would be nice, but lets be realistic, most wireless companies are in the middle of a panic attack about the explosion of smart phones on there networks right now. They are all scrambling to up capacity. No network would want to deal with 4 million new video conferencing devices right now. It will likely happen in the future. Besides that, apple isn't stupid, they are famous for slow incremental upgrades and changes to improve their devices over regular upgrade cycles. It is a basic marketing tool, and they are the masters of it

If you want to make phone calls... does this even remotely look like it is intended for that.

This device will do extremely well for its target market. Me for example. At a $499 price point, they will sell like mad.

Some people here are power users, some people here would like us to think they are power users, and the rest are admittedly newer to the game.

This is a new product, with a still very young OS.

Apple has a plan for this OS, and we're beginning to see it unfold. But it's still too close to the beginning of the plan for most to see what it is.
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post #330 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


The iPad will fail if people like my mum can't pick it up and browse the web, and trust me - that has to be two button pushes. If prosumers/professionals use it, that's great - but their experience will be limited, no matter how much they complain. Otherwise, what will apple sell to those professionals when their first professional touch device with HD 23" screen is Launched?

The Touch sells like hotcakes. The iPad, in my opinion, is a larger version with a few interesting tweaks... I have every reason to believe it will be successful. But also, as there will be many who have no use for it, there will be just as many who love what it does - myself included. It won't appeal to everyone, nor does it have to. There are many other players in this game... if you don't like Apple, maybe Acer has what you're looking for.
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post #331 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

This thing has more potential than Apple imagined? Don't be ridiculous.

I'm as big a fan of Apple as the next guy. My first was an Apple Lisa 2, circa 1984. I have a lighted Apple logo license plate and printed my homework on a portable Stylewriter 2200 back in high school. But ridiculous would be to say that Apple is infallible or perfect. The Mac, even with its "confusing file system" has proven itself over many years to be easy to use, even for the most computer illiterate of users. My grandmother just got a 20" iMac. She uses it for basic tasks and is confused by it very little. I use the same model, only larger and with a greater capacity. They both have the same filing system.

Will some folks not use the hierarchical file system? Perhaps. But many don't even use it now, even on current-day full-function Macs. My Dad lived years off of the "recent items" folder and the recent documents screen in AppleWorks. Just because the feature is there doesn't mean that newbies have to use it. Apple's mouse software defaults to a single-button usage. But it is expandable for people would would like the functionality. Insanely great.
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post #332 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

I'm as big a fan of Apple as the next guy. My first was an Apple Lisa 2, circa 1984. I have a lighted Apple logo license plate and printed my homework on a portable Stylewriter 2200 back in high school. But ridiculous would be to say that Apple is infallible or perfect. The Mac, even with its "confusing file system" has proven itself over many years to be easy to use, even for the most computer illiterate of users. My grandmother just got a 20" iMac. She uses it for basic tasks and is confused by it very little. I use the same model, only larger and with a greater capacity. They both have the same filing system.

Will some folks not use the hierarchical file system? Perhaps. But many don't even use it now, even on current-day full-function Macs. My Dad lived years off of the "recent items" folder and the recent documents screen in AppleWorks. Just because the feature is there doesn't mean that newbies have to use it. Apple's mouse software defaults to a single-button usage. But it is expandable for people would would like the functionality. Insanely great.

Yes, I agree, completely with you.

but Apple know exactly the future of this device, and they know all about it's potential, and the potential for 'grown up' devices built on the model that this will form the foundations of. To suggest the Apple don't realise that this will go a long way and be used in many different ways, by many different sectors is a wee bit naive. iPad = iDollars and a future market place, or Apple wouldn't be launching it - apple are FULLY aware of it's potential.
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post #333 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Now you're just being dense. Because of the number and size of all the files, combined with iPhoto's time consuming import process, it took A LONG TIME to do this. Hours upon hours. It would have taken minutes to simply copy the files to the hard drive. Also, when I first imported these photos, iPhoto did not work as you described. When I dragged all the folders in at once, iPhoto created a single event for all of them and threw away the folder names I had created. Only recently has this behavior been corrected. With previous iPhoto versions, I was forced to import ONE FOLDER AT A TIME! It took freaking DAYS! It took Apple two years to correct this.

And this leaves the Aperture question unanswered. How are you supposed to manage images using both iPhoto and Aperture? Each has a mutually exclusive feature set to the other. Each has its own separate database.




And that is PRECISELY why application/database/library-based file management doesn't work. You are forcing users to use only a single application to interact with a particular file type. Do you know how many situations there are when you need to use different applications to access a set of images?? You don't see a problem with this?

How am I supposed to manage my files - system-wide - when each application insists on barricading its own data files while omitting features offered by other applications?

Solution?

1) Aperture should offer all the functionality of iPhoto (impractical)
2) All applications should stick to standard file management instead of relying on closed data libraries
3) The database file system should be standardized and integrated throughout the entire operating system for use across all applications





It's clear from your comments that you aren't particularly serious about photography or you would understand the challenges I'm describing. The vast majority of serious photographers have abandoned Aperture and moved on to LightRoom.




A $2500, professional DSLR camera shoots images and HD video. Is it crazy to want to come return a trip and view the images and video clips in the same location?

I don't want to edit video clips in Aperture. I just want to keep the photos and video clips which I take at one event together. I want to be able to browse them together. iPhoto lets me do this, while seamlessly synchronizing with iMovie when I want to actually edit the video files. But iPhoto lacks Aperture's advanced image management and editing features. Meanwhile, Aperture offers advanced image management and editing, but it forbids me from storing or browsing my video clips together with my images.

Shooting stills and video with the same camera is still too new for the software companies to have figured out what to do with both.

Earlier, when camcorders shot stills, they were pretty terrible, and because of limitations, were done rarely. More recently, we have compact cameras shoot video, but those are amateur devices.

With semi pro and pro cameras now shooting credible video, Apple, Adobe, Phase One, DXO, and others will have to decide if they wish to combine their use in one program.

So far, I see no interest in my colleagues in doing so. I imagine some attitudes will change, but as few are doing this as yet, it will take some time.

In addition, few of us using professional apps for professional use are seeing much crossover to using an app such as iPhoto for our files.

As you say, it's confusing. While Aperture has some hooks to iPhoto, it's still clumsy. Aperture is a photo management app. In fact, it's mostly being used for that purpose. Unfortunately, Apple blew it with Aperture when it first came out, and have never been able to recover the lost momentum. Rumors of ver 3 are floating around, but Most pros who don't just go to ACR in PS have moved to Lightroom, though they, of course still use PS.

Meanwhile, Apple has acknowledged that Aperture hasn't made it in the pro market, and has accordingly priced it to sell to the higher end amateur market.
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post #334 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Apple has a plan for this OS, and we're beginning to see it unfold. But it's still too close to the beginning of the plan for most to see what it is.

Quite true. Though I've spent some time on this forum topic defending my right to voice an opinion, I too believe the iPad is an exceptional product, worthy of praise. I'm personally making a decision currently as to whether it will be appropriate for my mom. And though I realize this is not its intention, I'm actually considering it for her as her main computer. The items which I've been wondering about currently are Printing, Filing System, CDs/DVDs, photos and music. My mom is looking at the Mac Mini and has been for quite some time, but even the Mini is at the uttermost limits of her budget -- believe it or not, in this fantastic fiat currency paper money economy we've got going -- yes, her budget is limited..lol.

Admittedly, she probably wouldn't use the filing system much, but even back when she was using an old iMac G3, she did save things occasionally, so it's a very small concern. I've been wondering, if she were to purchase the iPad as her main computer, how long would it be before she would have to come to me to back up her photos (if she also bought a camera)? And given iPhoto's filing system, how easy would it be for me to make a backup for her on my computer? And then there's music of course. She just now started using CDs, so she may not be interested in iTunes. But you never know.

I know this computer is not intended to be one's main computer. But for my mom it actually might just fit the bill. The surfing and email capabilities are fantastic. But like I said, the printing capability and a few other things I still wonder about just because I know she's needed them before. And I don't want her to have to drive 30 minutes to my house every time she wants to print something.
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post #335 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Actually most of the 90% of the population use computers for work, as witnessed by Windows 90% market share.

Work computers are hooked up to others, to machines and printers, CAD/CAM devices, ATM machines, POS devices and the what not.

It's that Apple has given up on that 90% market, even when it's demanding a more reliable and secure OS than what Microsoft has been offering all these years.

PC's are in such large quantities because most PC's are a open device, not a closed one and locked to a App Store like what Apple is doing with the iPad.

So it's more like 90% of 10% of Apple users use their computers for only the basics you mentioned

I find is totally unrealistic, because people wouldn't buy a MacBook Pro or a iMac if a cheap netbook would do the basics you mentioned.

But the MacBook Pro and the iMac are Apple's best sellers? Why is this? Because people are using them for more than the basics.

Actually, you're wrong. For years now, most computers have been bought by people for the home, with home use intended. It's been a long time, the mid 90's since most computers have been used for work.

Mac buyers buy the machines they do because they like them. The Macbooks outsell the Macbook Pros by a wide margin, and the iMacs, while used for pro work, are mostly not.

I also know plenty of people who buy MBP's because they like the way it's made, and the way it looks, as opposed to the plastic Macbook, but the Macbook is still Apples best seller.
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post #336 of 508
1/30/10 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

No business can appeal to everyone, nor should they try to. Apple will be just fine doing business the way they have been and their financial reports confirm this.

Indeed, they've been quite successful. They are also great listeners. Further proven by their financial reports.
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post #337 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by God of Biscuits View Post

I hope that you'll be able to stream movies and music from your household Macs or PCs to your iPad so that you don't have to sync them first.

Like streaming to an Apple TV or streaming from Mac to Mac.

bingo

the ipad will morph into the apple tv minus HD soon enough

THE IPAD WIIL REPLACE ATV

am i off topic ??
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post #338 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Yes, I agree, completely with you.

but Apple know exactly the future of this device, and they know all about it's potential, and the potential for 'grown up' devices built on the model that this will form the foundations of. To suggest the Apple don't realise that this will go a long way and be used in many different ways, by many different sectors is a wee bit naive. iPad = iDollars and a future market place, or Apple wouldn't be launching it - apple are FULLY aware of it's potential.

Regardless of extremist fanaticism, Apple's intended product usages, and their great wisdom of product potential, the crowds will continue to want and protest for features. Demand will always demand and products will result. The iPad, though highly more valuable than paper money, they will make plenty of it I am sure.
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post #339 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thartist View Post

How is this a feature?

This philosophy is flawed in so many ways. Apple is not giving the end user MORE freedom, but less! Filetypes should act independent to programs for one reason only. LICENSING! Let's apply Apple's logic to the way my computer works now. Being a graphic guy, I switch between Photoshop and Fireworks all the time. Why would I want Photoshop to open and save graphic files when both applications treat the same file totally differently! I also script! There are some things Pages sucks at (script writing development). Why would I want to be in Pages only to write my scripts when scriptwriter pro does it much better?

PDFs is another great example. I want to open PDFs in Acrobat, not PREVIEW! I also want to put files on my thumb drive to send to clients, or upload them to box.net for review. Now what? I have to say to the client, "sorry. That thumbnail I rendered on my iPhone can only be used with this application software of which you have to buy..."

Yea, right.

Why is Apple giving me a reason to move over to the upcoming slate or a netbook running Linux? WHY! What's next Apple? Are you going to tell me that I have to put ice cream in a cone instead of a cup?

the ipad is not a computer
it is a media player
and go forth young man and enjoy linux all you want
and the linux forums are cool too !!
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post #340 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

But 'correct' it they did, and you're still complaining? Maybe they saw it as a new feature, rather than a 'correction'.

This was not merely a feature. It was a gross omission, due to Apple's shortsightedness with certain concepts. They want to create a simple and straightforward system - which I admire - but they sometimes fail to consider how real people work in real life. Sure, feature X is easy to use when creating new content from scratch, but did it occur to anyone how it might work for people importing years' worth of files or for people who, I don't know, maybe need to collaborate with others who use different software and computers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

what are you a masochist, or stupid?

I'm not stupid, but perhaps I am a masochist for wasting my time trying to explain things to the feebleminded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

find software that works the way you want it to - nobody is forcing you to use iPhoto or Aperture.

Oh… so I should either love it or shut the fck up?



Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

and photoshop doesn't edit video. And Final Cut Pro is a terrible desktop publishing package.

Are you retarded? I never said that one app should edit all file types. My point is that no application should lock up its files in a way that restricts the user from browsing them or organizing them whichever way he wants. Aperture should NOT do video editing. However, it also shouldn't restrict me from keeping photos and videos from a specific event in a common folder for that event.
Idiots like you give Apple users a bad reputation.
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post #341 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Shooting stills and video with the same camera is still too new for the software companies to have figured out what to do with both.

Holy crap, it was an EXAMPLE. What is so complicated about this?

Users should be allowed to organize and browse their files any way they want. Applications should not isolate and hoard file types.
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post #342 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... the iPad will sync some apps' documents via either iTunes or MobileMe, including photos, music, movies, TV shows, contacts, calendars, and bookmarks...

confusing: Mobile me already syncs all the entities listed.

Will the new system synchronize documents from iWork wirelessly and seamlessly just as it does all those other files?

The article seems to build to that conclusion, but then falls far short with the concluding sentence: "some apps' documents" and a list that doesn't mention iWorks docs.

anybody know?
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post #343 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Quite true. Though I've spent some time on this forum topic defending my right to voice an opinion, I too believe the iPad is an exceptional product, worthy of praise. I'm personally making a decision currently as to whether it will be appropriate for my mom. And though I realize this is not its intention, I'm actually considering it for her as her main computer. The items which I've been wondering about currently are Printing, Filing System, CDs/DVDs, photos and music. My mom is looking at the Mac Mini and has been for quite some time, but even the Mini is at the uttermost limits of her budget -- believe it or not, in this fantastic fiat currency paper money economy we've got going -- yes, her budget is limited..lol.

Admittedly, she probably wouldn't use the filing system much, but even back when she was using an old iMac G3, she did save things occasionally, so it's a very small concern. I've been wondering, if she were to purchase the iPad as her main computer, how long would it be before she would have to come to me to back up her photos (if she also bought a camera)? And given iPhoto's filing system, how easy would it be for me to make a backup for her on my computer? And then there's music of course. She just now started using CDs, so she may not be interested in iTunes. But you never know.

I know this computer is not intended to be one's main computer. But for my mom it actually might just fit the bill. The surfing and email capabilities are fantastic. But like I said, the printing capability and a few other things I still wonder about just because I know she's needed them before. And I don't want her to have to drive 30 minutes to my house every time she wants to print something.

I believe quite strongly that Apple intends for some people, and it will just be a few at first, to use this as their computer. People are great at rationalizing convenience as being their most important focus.

If they get their cloud services (oh, how I dislike that term) up and running soon, then what more will many people need? Yes, the screen is small, yes, by today's standards the rez is low, but you know what? With more people going to smaller notebooks as their main, or only machine, this isn't so impossible a thought anymore.

I even know a couple who use a netbook as their only machine, dreadful as they are, and they truly are. This seems, from what I've read from those who have actually used it, much faster than even the fastest Windows netbook. Yes, Linux netbooks are somewhat faster than their Windows counterparts, but no matter how hard the Linux community tries to say so, they haven't caught on. People just don't want them. I installed Win 7 on my daughter's Toshiba 205 netbook that I bought her for the summer for her schooling in the UK, but it's no faster than it was with the original Win XP Basic. It's maddeningly slow.

But this isn't. Get the keyboard dock, and it seems real nice. Put the whole thing in a draw when not being used.

I have no doubt we'll be seeing 15" models, and even bigger ones later on.
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post #344 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

the ipad is not a computer
it is a media player
and go forth young man and enjoy linux all you want
and the linux forums are cool too !!
good bye

It's pretty obvious that it is a computer.
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post #345 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thartist View Post

Along with a camera and multitasking? Yes, yes, we have heard this before.

I don't want to find out that I have purchased an $850 brick with a cheap 64 gig hard drive when I can go out and buy a 500 gig mini pocket drive for under a hundred bucks. I mean, what type of economy does Steve Jobs think this is? To be quite honest, I'm not really comfortable with a watered down OS on ANY device for over $300 dollars.

OMG
it is a brick
it is a media playback device
not a computer
please don't buy it
net books for you
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post #346 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Holy crap, it was an EXAMPLE. What is so complicated about this?

Users should be allowed to organize and browse their files any way they want. Applications should not isolate and hoard file types.

Users can do this. Apple and other companies offer software that offer a variety of solutions, if you don't like one, use another. That's why there is choice, that's why there are alternatives. You're determined to argue. If every piece of software worked in the same way, there would be no choice - no doubt you'd complain about that too.
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post #347 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I even know a couple who use a netbook as their only machine, dreadful as they are, and they truly are. This seems, from what I've read from those who have actually used it, much faster than even the fastest Windows netbook.

Definitely. I can see from just watching the keynote that the iPad is MUCH faster than many netbooks. I know a few folks with cheaper netbooks and I know how painfully slow they can be. The iPad's simplicity factor no doubt contributes to its blazing speed. I can appreciate that.
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post #348 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

It works well for songs and photos or other single type of content and is mainly for viewing/listening. But iTunes and iPhoto also essentially act as content servers to share the media with other applications. Are all 3rd party apps expected to build in that same capability?

And you sort of invalidated your entire argument when you say you drag your content to the desktop or to other applications when you need it there. How can you do that when the iPad (currently) can't multitask and there really isn't a desktop to drag a file to.



Ok, great; but just how do you propose tagging the files and, more importantly, viewing the collection of files you tagged with that project? You'd need an app to allow you to identify the files you want to tag and then view the related files the way you've organized them.

Guess what, you just reinvented the Finder, the Mac's file management application. Granted, you may not be navigating according to the actual file structure of the operating system, but you've still created a virtual file structure the user needs to be able to navigate.

This new file management system will work fine when you have a relatively small number of file types and limited interaction between apps (what would you break if you deleted an app and all it's related documents and other apps were referencing those documents?).

Sorry if what I repeat has been discussed, but I realize why I rarely post...3 pages!! I can't keep up

I said Apple is heading towards this type of file management. It's far from perfect. iLife is the 1st step in this direction, the iPad and iPhone are the next steps. Believe you me what we're seeing now is far from what this will look like in several years.

As for dragging to the desktop I can't remember the last time I did that. Usually if I need to use another application I will either drag the file onto that application OR if I need to use an iLife document, I will use the media browser within the application I'm using.

I design websites and can easily imagine a system where I don't need specific folders or the finder to complete the site.

Give it time. The iPad OS is barely ready to replace a computer for basic home use let alone professional use.
-Toyin
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-Toyin
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post #349 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Holy crap, it was an EXAMPLE. What is so complicated about this?

Users should be allowed to organize and browse their files any way they want. Applications should not isolate and hoard file types.

It is complicated. That's the problem.

The goal of computer scientists for decades has been to eliminate these individual folders. It's not just Apple.

Besides the folders are just a metaphor anyway. They don't exist.

While we all seem to like them, because they make us feel comfortable, are they REALLY needed? My daughter and her friends use Spotlight to find everything. I don't think they care at all. When I look through her machine, it's a disorganized mess, and I talk to her about that, but she knows how to find whatever she needs. Her machine is automatically backed up incrementally, so she won't loose anything. Maybe the problem is us.
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post #350 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:26am
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Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Yes, I agree, completely with you.
but Apple know exactly the future of this device, and they know all about it's potential, and the potential for 'grown up' devices built on the model that this will form the foundations of. To suggest the Apple don't realise that this will go a long way and be used in many different ways, by many different sectors is a wee bit naive. iPad = iDollars and a future market place, or Apple wouldn't be launching it - apple are FULLY aware of it's potential.


Apple is brilliant 95% of the time. But that doesn't change the fact that they're still infuriatingly stubborn the other 5% of the time.

One example that comes to mind: the Mouse. Apple brilliantly pioneered the GUI and mouse in consumer personal computers. Today EVERYBODY uses a GUI and mouse.

On the other hand, they resisted 2-button mouse functionality for years. THAT was retarded. They knew it was retarded, but it was a matter of pride for them.

It's OK to hide potentially confusing features from newbie users (i.e. the secondary click touchpad function) but it's not OK to completely hold back an essential feature such as this from millions of users who do need it.

Just because Apple is the only computer software and hardware maker who demonstrates any real level of innovation and commitment to the user experience doesn't mean that they should not be criticized when they make a boneheaded move.

And just to bring my comments back into context, I am NOT suggesting that the iPad should have a conventional Finder-type file management system. My comments were directed at the notion that Apple is "reinventing file access." There's a kernel of truth there, and I certainly hope they can reinvent file access, but their current direction on the DESKTOP, as evidenced by Aperture, Iphoto, etc., still needs a lot of work before it can become truly successful.
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post #351 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thartist View Post

1. Because you have the freedom to hack other computers if you would like to.
2. Because sometimes Apple doesn't GET IT RIGHT.
3. Because games during the golden age are clearly better than the buggy crap EA puts out now.
4. I had a sandbox too.

I can't hack with an iPad. I can't run Wireshark with an iPad. I can't play quality strategy games with an iPad (just imagine how big games are going to be that take full advantage of the screen resolution!)

sad you can't steal via torrent and lime wire
sad you can't steal
now i understand why you are so stupid
it is an appliance
not a computer
you use for games and movies and email u-tube internet stuff

not for data base type work and company work files

it is made for bored house wives
not teck gods like you


and when you say hack you say i am a thief
good luck with that
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #352 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:31am
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Originally Posted by Toyin View Post

I think this is where Apple has been heading for sometime......and I like it. I remember when iTunes came out. I couldn't stand it reorganizing my folders. When iPhoto came out I had a apoplectic fit as it hid all my carefully organized photo folders. You know what, after letting the applications organize my files/folders, I found it so much easier. I can't remember the last time I went looking for photos or music files in the finder. If I need a file I simply drag it to the desktop or onto the application icon in the dock that needs it.



This is where metadata could make this file system work. Tag one project's files with the project name.

Aren't "Folders" easier than that?
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post #353 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:33am
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Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Apple is brilliant 95% of the time. But that doesn't change the fact that they're still infuriatingly stubborn the other 5% of the time.

i would argue that brilliance and stubbornness are indefatigably intertwined. But so insanity, which leads back to a popular Einstein aphorism.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #354 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:33am
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

When I look through her machine, it's a disorganized mess, and I talk to her about that, but she knows how to find whatever she needs. Her machine is automatically backed up incrementally, so she won't loose anything. Maybe the problem is us.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. I believe a lack of organizational responsibility often extends far beyond the computer realm in today's society. I particularly enjoy the entertaining TV show that was just released recently by A&E entitled "Hoarders." Perhaps this a bit off-topic but I believe that, more often than not, this is simply a learned behavior rather than some sort of mysterious medical problem. But, back to computers. Can we become TOO dependent on them? I tend to think we can.
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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post #355 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phpmaven View Post

I have an idea for you: Don't use iPhoto. Next!

phpmaven
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010

Posts: 3


Thanks for that helpful comment, "phpmaven". After seeing such insight coming from someone after just three weeks of lurking the AppleInsider forums, I await with bated breath your next contribution.





.
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post #356 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. I believe a lack of organizational responsibility often extends far beyond the computer realm in today's society. I particularly enjoy the entertaining TV show that was just released recently by A&E entitled "Hoarders." Perhaps this a bit off-topic but I believe that, more often than not, this is simply a learned behavior rather than some sort of mysterious medical problem. But, back to computers. Can we become TOO dependent on them? I tend to think we can.

i find it funny that people think they're being deprived of their freedom when they can't drag and drop from a folder to another like they do with finder...there are popover lists in the ipad, this will be achievable somehow or another

do you need to be looking at where in the hard drive your files are written? what sector and cluster? no, then this should be the same...and i doubt it restricts you in any way
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post #357 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It is complicated. That's the problem.

The goal of computer scientists for decades has been to eliminate these individual folders. It's not just Apple.

Besides the folders are just a metaphor anyway. They don't exist.

While we all seem to like them, because they make us feel comfortable, are they REALLY needed? My daughter and her friends use Spotlight to find everything. I don't think they care at all. When I look through her machine, it's a disorganized mess, and I talk to her about that, but she knows how to find whatever she needs. Her machine is automatically backed up incrementally, so she won't loose anything. Maybe the problem is us.


If you place your complete trust in such a system, you're always just a misspelled filename or keyword away from losing an important file. Organizational systems need some degree of redundancy. And file folders, metaphorical or otherwise, are a great way to group related files so you can quickly find and isolate them when needed.

Projects are a great example of this. Let's say your working on a complex presentation with all sorts of files. Do you really want to wade through an endless search results list every time you want to access each individual file you're working with? Or is it simpler to just toss your project files into a folder where they will always be at your fingertips?

I fell in love with Spotlight the first time I used it. Over the years, though, I've noticed that sometimes there are quicker and easier ways to find what you want. Bottom line, I never rely on a single system.
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post #358 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

If you place your complete trust in such a system, you're always just a misspelled filename or keyword away from losing an important file. Organizational systems need some degree of redundancy. And file folders, metaphorical or otherwise, are a great way to group related files so you can quickly find and isolate them when needed.

Projects are a great example of this. Let's say your working on a complex presentation with all sorts of files. Do you really want to wade through an endless search results list every time you want to access each individual file you're working with? Or is it simpler to just toss your project files into a folder where they will always be at your fingertips?

I fell in love with Spotlight the first time I used it. Over the years, though, I've noticed that sometimes there are quicker and easier ways to find what you want. Bottom line, I never rely on a single system.

Well said! Thank you.
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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post #359 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:47am
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Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

i would argue that brilliance and stubbornness are indefatigably intertwined. But so irrational psychosis, which leads back to a popular Einstein aphorism.

Brilliant choice of words a very adroit post

............

Good to see Mel is back

.................


The iPad is a information appliance people (Not a Computer) . I find it abstruse that people would say such

..........................

brucep thanks for the sig compliment feel free to duplicate if you want
Apple!

Think Different
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Apple!

Think Different
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post #360 of 508
1/30/10 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMe View Post

The iPad is a information appliance people (Not a Computer) . I find it abstruse that people would say such

Unless the definition has changed recently, I may disagree with that statement:

com⋅put⋅er
  /kəmˈpyutər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhm-pyoo-ter] Show IPA
Use computer in a Sentence
See images of computer
Search computer on the Web
noun
1. \tAlso called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations.
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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