Apple reinventing file access, wireless sharing for iPad - Page 3

From iPhone OS 3.2 Documentation:

"Formalized Support for Handling Documents and Files
To support the ability to create productivity applications, iPhone OS 3.2 includes several new features aimed at support the creation and handling of documents and files:

Applications can now register themselves as being able to open specific types of files. This support allows applications that do need to work with files (such as email programs) the ability to pass those files to other applications.
The UIKit framework now provides the UIDocumentInteractionController class for interacting with files of unknown types. You can use this class to preview files, copy their contents to the pasteboard, or pass them to another application for opening.
Applications with the UIFileSharingEnabled key in their Info.plist file can share files with the user’s desktop computer. A connected iPad device shows up on the user’s desktop and contains subdirectories for all applications that share files. The user can transfer files in and out of this directory.
Of course, it is important to remember that although you can manipulate files in your iPad applications, files should never be a focal part of your application. There are no open and save panels in iPhone OS for a very good reason. The save panel in particular implies that it is the user’s responsibility to save all data, but this is not the model that iPhone applications should ever use. Instead, applications should save data incrementally to prevent the loss of that data when the application quits or is interrupted by the system. To do this, your application must take responsibility for managing the creation and saving the user’s content at appropriate times.

Of course, sometimes interacting with files is necessary. If your application creates files that can be exchanged with a desktop computer, you might need to write files to your application’s file-sharing directory. In this case, always be mindful that the user can add or remove files from that directory. Applications should look for new files in this directory and present them to the user automatically. If the user puts a file in the directory whose type your application does not recognize, you can use a UIDocumentInteractionController object to manage the file-related interactions for you as appropriate."

Read post #72. Apps will need to register with the OS what type of files they can open. When another app tries to open a file that it does not support it will ask the OS what app is capable of working with this file. The OS will then replies with a list of supported apps and probably giving the user the list of apps to choose from. Apps don't need to see each other, they only need to know what they need to know. If you ask developers they will tell you that they don't want other apps to mess with their app files and directory. That's the point of the sandbox.

This comparison is misleading and not really valid. The iPad does not "jettison" the file system at all -- it's still there; the user just doesn't see it -- whereas the Newton really did get rid of the entire concept of files. There were literally no files on it, just databases full of objects; to export "files" for use on a computer, they had to be constructed from those database objects and then saved in some file format.


Again, not quite correct. There are iPhone apps in which explicit loading and saving of files *does* take place, such as all the image editing apps that can open images from your photo library (regardless of the convenient browser for selecting them, these are still files stored in a file system), and audio apps such as Beatmaker, which has functions for opening and saving of different types of files, even importing/exporting them.

Maybe you guys are confusing "file browser" with "file system". The hierarchical file system has not gone anywhere. It's there just like every other variant of Mac OS X. Basically they've just sandboxed each app's documents and eliminated the Finder.

Look, you guys are getting too frazzled about all of this. We don't even know what the features are yet other than what Apple showed.

I've been reading articles on various web sites that have been saying that pages will open a Word Doc, but not save to one, even though there is video showing Jobs telling Mossberg that it will!

There's a lot about the way this works that people don't know about yet. It's possible that some of this has already been addressed. People here are worrying about things that we don't even know is true, and they're discussing it as though it it.

In other words, we don't know if all these limitations really exist. We should be questioning whether they do, rather than acting as though they do.

And, again for the fourth time, this is just 3.2. It's likely that the REAL iPad OS will be 4.0 coming out in late June.

Thank you!

As I've been saying, what we say in the presentation, and even in Apple's site isn't the whole word on this. There's far more to the iPad than some think.

You can't guarantee anything. You don't know more than anyone else who isn't a developer, as has just been proven by a couple here who are.

So view it on iWork on the tablet, then edit it on your desktop on whatever application you like.
Besides, once you get used to iWork on the iPad, you might just love it.

Again from the documentation:

"Of course, it is important to remember that although you can manipulate files in your iPad applications, files should never be a focal part of your application. There are no open and save panels in iPhone OS for a very good reason. The save panel in particular implies that it is the users responsibility to save all data, but this is not the model that iPhone applications should ever use. Instead, applications should save data incrementally to prevent the loss of that data when the application quits or is interrupted by the system. To do this, your application must take responsibility for managing the creation and saving the users content at appropriate times.

Of course, sometimes interacting with files is necessary. If your application creates files that can be exchanged with a desktop computer, you might need to write files to your applications file-sharing directory. In this case, always be mindful that the user can add or remove files from that directory. Applications should look for new files in this directory and present them to the user automatically. If the user puts a file in the directory whose type your application does not recognize, you can use a UIDocumentInteractionController object to manage the file-related interactions for you as appropriate."

Good points.

If the iPad catches on in a big way (and I think it will), I can see what you're saying... Apple gradually beefing up the innards to the point that it becomes a real workhorse for creative work. The form factor seems perfect for some things, namely creative/creativity apps. I can imagine a 256GB model a couple years from now with, say, quadruple the A4's processing power.

I haven't held one yet, but I suspect that when I do I'll fall in love and become a salivating iPad zombie.

Along with a camera and multitasking? Yes, yes, we have heard this before.

I don't want to find out that I have purchased an $850 brick with a cheap 64 gig hard drive when I can go out and buy a 500 gig mini pocket drive for under a hundred bucks. I mean, what type of economy does Steve Jobs think this is? To be quite honest, I'm not really comfortable with a watered down OS on ANY device for over $300 dollars.

Does this mean that someone could create an app to view AVI or WMV files?

So don't buy an iPad then. Personally... I love my 27" iMac + 24" external monitor. Awesome for creative work and web development. I have no need for an iPad. But I can see how it could be a really neat thing for the uses it's aimed at. And I'm really intrigued by the whole idea of the application taking care of document creation and saving for you. I know it would make my dad's life simpler. He barely knows when to click vs. double-click. iPad would be perfect for him.

"files should never be a focal part of your application"...

uh. I don't want to make a Snappy the Clown application here folks. I want to program something useful that I can use on my phone. Sense when did tech documentation have so much philosophy and marketing speak bundled up all in one paragraph?

There are many things they didn't explain well in the iPad documentation. My guess is they are holding information back until they officially announce iPhone 4.0 beta in March or April.

I was in advertising for years. It taught me NOT to believe everything. I hope you didn't believe your own junk.

The point is that Apple likes to make things appear as simple as possible. It likes to put as much under the hood as possible.

Did you ever use PC DOS, or Windows before 2000? If you aren't too young to have had that lovely experience, you don't know how different the Mac OS was from that. While we were screwing around with interrupts every time we changed, added, or removed boards, on the PC (and found out that there wasn't enough!), we never had to do that with a Mac. Yeah, some PC people thought it was great "managing" that cruft. But it wasn't. It was stupid. The Mac took care of that nonsense so we could just get on with it. Plenty of other examples.

This is what's happening here. Apple will tell us the basic things so that people in general will see whats it's about. When you get the thing in your hands, you find a lot of details about the way it works that hasn't been mentioned. A lot of things will just work because the OS is taking care of it.

I really think you're worrying too much here. We're going to see more info coming out over time. Give it a break.

Obviously not. The discussion is about the way files are stored and managed on the device.

What are the uses again? I missed those.

Syncing the files via a cloud bases service would be a real reinvention. But this smells like a Windows 7 HomeGroup like sharing experience.

And we would still need iTunes and an USB cable oh and a personal computer for other things to sync.

For me the real problem is about what the iPad wants to be?!

It is not a PC, I'm OK with that. But like the iPhone is a communication device and the iPod touch is a mobile music/media consumption device, what is the iPad? If it wants to be an internet device it should have flash, a webcam and at least iChat that can run beside other apps. If it wants to be a media consumption device it should have a 16:9 display, stereo speaker, IPTV and full HD video out. If it wants to be a reading device it should have a different display because even this sexy display will hurt your eyes. If it wants to be a digital note book it should have get optional stylus input. Seriously, that notes app is a joke, isn't it? Compare that with MS Office OneNote or even the Journals app coming with Win7...

And did people realize that they just copied two of the most innovative gestures from that Courier prototype video? (1: pinch to close full screen apps and 2: tab, hold to drag items around)

Then you have plenty of netbooks to choose from, right? The iPad isn't for you. Fair enough.

On the other hand, lotta people won't be looking for a swiss army knife. They'll be looking for a precision toolset that already feels familiar.

Out of curiosity, who did you hear this from, and why did you base your expectations on rumors? Because Apple never even said they were making a tablet, let alone what it would do.


Then don't buy it.

I read "files should never be a focal part of your application" not as "philosophy and marketing", but as a software design recommendation for abstraction.

Typo... I meant to say users. And the answer... as I've said a bunch of times already... are the average joes and computer idiots who just want to write email, surf the web, download music, post on facebook... etc. i.e.... not creative pros or developers or other content creators. Steve made that VERY clear in his presentation. The very first thing he said was that this new creation was something IN BETWEEN a full blown computer and a handheld. You can't fault the iPad for not being OS X. That's what your desktop / laptop is for. No one ever said that the iPad was a replacement for a full blown computer.

Actually I remember a different world where the pc offered the first math co-processor allowing artists such as myself to create 3d worlds and environments, in a world which was dominated by power hungry Silicon Graphics and the like. This was before Windows 2k. More like DOS. I run two environments in my studio for the record. My Macbook Pro handles Newtek's Lightwave brilliantly. But Painter, not so much, so that is Windows 7 all the way. And my Fedora environment is great for...well...stuff.

A computer is a tool. Nobody sells you a wrench and tells you that you can only hammer with it because it consists of a solid metal alloy.

YES, Exactly! As a developer, its the most modular, cleanest integration ever, just like OSX. Whatever filetype you can think of as long as theres an app for it, it would open. Even if the files where to be created locally within the Apps, other Apps can see them as well. There are no folders to manage, no files to move, nothing to sort physically. This is a good thing because it prevents you from forgetting where you put the file into, but a "Spotlight" like feature finds all, even if specified right down to the file type. Eg. Why would a Video player app would need to list PDF files if it can't read it?

Another neat thing is Desktop integration. Just dump any files into it, it will sort itself. No need to create sub folders(although you can, but you don't have to). Great for people who (don't sort) clutter their files on their ~/Desktop

It's more complicated that that.

First of all, this is the first iteration, both for the hardware, and the software. You don't expect next years model to not contain more Flash, more cpu and gpu power, and more sophisticated OS, and just more capability all around?

We can look at how far the iPhone has come in such a short time, just two years saw three models. Now we'll see the forth after the third year. It will likely be a major upgrade in both hardware and software. Very possible that some of the features of the iPad will find their way back to the iPhone/Touch.

Talking about $300 as though it's some magic number does no good. You could have said $200, or $400, or $600. Any one of those number would have the same meaning.

I bought my daughter a $400 netbook for the summer because she just needed Skype, Im internet, and a few other simple things, and wanted to wait for a later MacBook Pro, which we got her in September.

I've got the thing here. With the 2 Gb RAM upgrade it cost $500. But what a piece of junk! It can't run most software. I even upgraded it to Win 7 just for the heck of it, and it's no better. The iPad seems far more versatile.

But, according to you, it's a "real" computer, because it's got a full OS, and a 160GB HDD. Nonsense! The iPad looks far more useful, and vastly more capable.

That's the beauty; if you use the usual rule for buying a computer -- do I need it NOW, or can I wait -- you don't have to get the first iteration if it's not something you need now.

Me, I'm going to be using a few of these for a trial run on the next feature I shoot later in the year. I'll give one to each of my department heads (costume, set design, art direction, etc.), so that instead of running up to me with notebook computers to show me some pic to make a choice on (always awkward, but still better than the old Polaroid method from days of yore), they can use a sleeker and easier to handle iPad. I'll be trying to keep my shooting script on the iPad for myself and (if possible) my storyboard. If I can find a way to stream the camera's feed to the iPad (maybe via my MBP which I'll also bring), I'd have a very versatile and mobile monitor as well. Also, any reference footage and graphics will be easy for me to call up. For me, it looks like a very useful tool. But again, this will be a test.

Yup. That is the issue. I think everyone is trying to wrap their head around what this product's purpose in life is. And it's trying to cover ALL of the media bases. So there are a lot of compromises. As you've outlined. I think the other problem with the iPad is that no one NEEDS one. No one NEEDS an iPad. Everyone needs a computer and a phone. No one needs an iPad. Still... it is a very interesting device. And the app-centric concept is intriguing too... from a usability point of view. It will be fascinating to see how it evolves.

But why create an "inbetween" device when you have to pay $850 plus AT&T agreement for a hard drive the $500 price point should give you? For $150 more I can get a regular Macbook WITH-A-FINDER !!!

I can accomplish all the above with a box.net account. Much cheaper.

In there latest quarterly report, Apple specifically said that they run the App Store at a little better than break even. Storage, bandwidth and transaction management aren't free.

You're older than you seem to be. The Mac didn't NEED a math co-proccessor, because other than the first couple of models, the 68xxxx cpu's already had them. And they were 16/32 bit cpus rather than the 8/16 bit ones the PC used for so long.

Lightwave is a dead weight these days. Congrats for being one of the last pro users.

True, but notice the FREEDOM you had to install another OS, to test out other applications,etc? I can tell you that the iPad will not handle a one-tenth of what a Slate device will be able to handle due to its 1ghz processor. MIght run X-com though. OOOO. Can I install Steam on the iPad? Wait. I can't. The iPAD is sandboxed. :-(

Explain please. I'm looking for a tool that I (and my people) can use on set and on location to be a digital script reader, storyboard reference, graphic reference and possibly a monitor for my DP's shooting. What does box.net have to do with that? I don't need a cloud storage identity, I need a physical tool to replace all the notebooks people are running around with on set (which are a bit unwieldy - whereas the iPad looks to be lighter, thinner and less awkward). I'm discussing a tool to use while shooting a feature film.

I remember when the iPhone first came out it was priced at some ridiculously high amount. Like.... $700 or something insane. Oh... and since the Macbook doesn't have 3G and doesn't require an AT7T agreement... that's not a fair comparison.

As you know, the more compact the device, the more expensive it is.

That's why laptops are much more expensive for less performance than a desktop or tower. That's just the way it is.

If you don't need 3G, the $699 device, (it's $829 for the 3G version, not $850) will serve. Last I heard, there's no built-in option for 3G in any Mac laptop, so that's not a fair comparison. There's no GPS or compass either. At least be fair with your comparisons.

In addition, people in a number of cases seem to be willing to pay five times the price for an SSD that's much smaller than the HDD it replaces. So not everyone would agree with your HDD/Flash comparison either.

Two different kinds of freedom. The freedom to do whatever the heck you want versus the freedom from having to think too much and learn how to use a complex computer system when all you really want to do is write an email and share pictures of your kids. Please read what I'm writing and try to understand. I'm not trying to argue with you. We actually agree. I have no need for an iPad and would never buy one. Not as it is now. I need a full OS just like you. But I'm not all up in arms about the iPad. Why should I be? It's not aimed at me. And it's not aimed at you. And what's wrong with that?

This is what I was referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

Oh please! About 1% of people install another OS. With PCs, most people just get a new computer.

Your argument is going downhill. You're now bringing things into this that don't apply.

Just who do you think is going to buy this? Linux geeks?

The first models of this will be sold mostly to people who want to consume media. And if a few say their collections of music and whatnot are too big, well, fine. People have been complaining about that lack of space on iPods and iPhones too. So far it hasn't seemed to have hurt sales to any extent.

Much of the rest will go to business people on trips. I've already read articles about why they will want this.

I'm willing to bet that it will take the market for PC tablets in the medical profession away. Smaller and lighter. The iPhone is already one of the most popular phones with doctors.

The pro photography sites are awash with articles about how this will be a great thing for them. As that was my business for a long time, I can agree.

There will be many apps for this, as well as hardware that will extend its use, even if you don't see that.

This will result in people having much MORE freedom. Just not what you want to envision, because most people don't care about all of that.

You're stuck on this first edition, and can't seem to imagine that it will advance. Or is it that you'd rather not want to imagine that it will?

Well if you want to pay me for consulting... :-)

box.net has an app in the app store. Think of people walking around with cheaper iTouches as opposed to these huge pad devices which are subject to being dropped. I have a workflow worked out with my iPhone being the main device which uploads info to the cloud. Since I can't really PULL info from the cloud because the device is sandboxed, I can at least sync it with my machines at the office. Email me for more info. :-)

What I want to know is whether this is going to be booked to cash or accrued revenue and whether Apple''s going to invoke some magical and wonderful GAAP faux-explanation to charge me $x every three months when the underlying OS is upgraded.

Otherwise, I'm good to go.

And that is a good thing.
1.Security. If a sneaky developer decides to create a decoy app to modify let say Mail.app and that reads all of your email addresses and uploads it to their own server. Then you'd blame Apple for getting spam, and that the Mail.app has a security hole. This is why Apps should not talk to each other.
2. Clean Install/Uninstall. You claim your space back without having random files scattered all over the system.