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Next iPhone will beat Droid according to Jobs

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Electronista has more from Stevie's peptalk. Among other things he indicated that the Droid/ android is their main foe but the next iPhone will blow them away. I wonder if it's true. He really seems to hate Google.

http://www.electronista.com/articles....beat.android/
post #2 of 19
I don't see how an iphone update will blow the competition away when the iPad is brand new and just managed to match the Nexus One hardware. Sounds like some marketing talk again - even if it gets a 5M Pixel camera + LED flash, plus multitasking, it's not really better than the competition. The only thing would be the IPS LED backlit screen, which the competition certainly can't match if Apple get an exclusive provider or exclusive pricing. Another could be Tegra 2 but then it's more powerful than the iPad, which seems illogical because they could just have made an iphone dock instead of another product.

The minute that Jobs mentioned on stage a while back about wanting to partner up in the context of Google, you could see some tension there. Like I've said before though, Google do search and Microsoft are trying to heavily compete with them. Google partnering with Apple was never going to do anything to unseat Microsoft who are starting to put bing as default on their products and they have a huge marketshare. With their own phone and OS, Google can push their own search to a wider audience.

It's a shame but inevitable due to the respective business strategies. I don't really want to see Apple and Google turn against each other because they could make pretty strong partners. Steve Jobs has to realise that not every company can afford to stick with less than 10% marketshare. Chrome browser overtaking Safari so quickly sort of proves that Google is doing the right thing although I guess they could easily have pushed Safari on their homepage instead.
post #3 of 19
Two things: you're assuming that Jobs' talk of beating Droid was simply about specs. Surely at this point we understand that there's more to the game than that?

Secondly, talk of marketshare that limits itself to the desktop is rapidly becoming incoherent. Apple is clearly staking mobile as the next big thing and an area that they do a great deal better than 10% or so, because they don't have to swim upstream against an entrenched Wintel duopoly. So far they seem to be doing very well in that space, indeed.
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post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't see how an iphone update will blow the competition away when the iPad is brand new and just managed to match the Nexus One hardware.

You make it sound like the N1 has been here for ages.

Furthermore N1 has a Cortex A8 CPU whereas the iPad has a Cortex A9.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Two things: you're assuming that Jobs' talk of beating Droid was simply about specs. Surely at this point we understand that there's more to the game than that?

What could it be though besides the screen? it's not software as Droid has an open market and doesn't force people to use Objective-C, which most developers are unfamiliar with. It's not the eco-system as Droid has 20,000+ apps, which is respectable vs 140,000 and the broad spectrum of devices will expand this rapidly. The Nexus One UI is really nice so it's not that either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Secondly, talk of marketshare that limits itself to the desktop is rapidly becoming incoherent. Apple is clearly staking mobile as the next big thing and an area that they do a great deal better than 10% or so, because they don't have to swim upstream against an entrenched Wintel duopoly. So far they seem to be doing very well in that space, indeed.

The smartphone marketshare yes but not the phone marketshare. Apple iphone has sold 37 million to date. Phones shipped in one year = 1 billion. Global smartphone share is 15% or something, global handset share is under 2%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL

You make it sound like the N1 has been here for ages.

Furthermore N1 has a Cortex A8 CPU whereas the iPad has a Cortex A9.

I doubt 1GHz ARM Cortex A9 (assuming Apple even use that clock speed) will be significantly faster than 1GHz Snapdragon. You won't notice the difference in everyday tasks.

The CPU will for the most part only match the competition. The GPU will be weaker than a lot of competitors. Zune HD already uses the Tegra. Tegra 2 is double that.

NVidia Tegra 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGtu_ZkwqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-LuNzZHzmc

HTC has shown a more innovative UI than the iphone - so has the Nexus One to some extent.

For Apple to blow away the competition, the next iphone would have to have multitasking, 1GHz Cortex A9 or more, better GPU than the iPad, IPS screen, 5MPixel camera with LED Flash and a personal call girl that comes with every handset (a pretty one too). Otherwise, it will just be slightly better and overtaken again in 6 months.
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The smartphone marketshare yes but not the phone marketshare. Apple iphone has sold 37 million to date. Phones shipped in one year = 1 billion. Global smartphone share is 15% or something, global handset share is under 2%.

I am not sure Apple wants a share of the dumbphone market.
And to be brutally honest, I am not sure anyone wants a share of the dumbphone market. There does not appear to much revenue in it.

Don't think of it as business, think of it as a charitable venture. A bit like making netbooks.

That market mostly belongs to Nokia. Apple's single handset generates more profit than all of the 523,842 varieties of smartphone and dumbphones Nokia sells all put together. And most of Nokia's profits come from their smartphones.

As Marie Antoinette once said - let them eat Marketshare.

C.
post #7 of 19
So Marvin, why don't you fill us in on how many cores the Apple A4 SOC has...

...oh that's right, it's an unknown quantity.

There is nothing definitive at this stage.

Then there are other issues such as how fast can you get data from a microSD card to the SOC for processing?

Given the limited memory of the Nexus wouldn't this bottleneck affect performance?

btw check these benchmarks the HTC Touch HD has a 1GHz snapdragon doesn't it?

iPhone 3GS 882 fps vs HTC HD 412 fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

For Apple to blow away the competition, the next iphone would have to have multitasking, 1GHz Cortex A9...
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post #8 of 19
Gonna be delicious
post #9 of 19
What's the next possible release date for the new iPhone?
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

What's the next possible release date for the new iPhone?

They have a habit of coming out in June.

This is preceded by a slow quarter in which the demand for iPhones drops away as people start to anticipate the new model.

Apple could (of course) boost sales by bringing forward the release date.

C.
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So Marvin, why don't you fill us in on how many cores the Apple A4 SOC has...

...oh that's right, it's an unknown quantity.

Yeah, that's true, Tegra 2 will be dual-core 1GHz coming a couple of months after the iPad and the next Snapdragon will be dual 1.5GHz so it would have to be dual-core in the iPad - wonder why they didn't mention it though. If you wanted people to know how magical it was, surely you'd say dual 1GHz. They'll probably underclock it for the iphone.

There's also no point if they don't turn on 3rd party multi-tasking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Then there are other issues such as how fast can you get data from a microSD card to the SOC for processing?

Software runs in RAM, the storage format is meaningless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Given the limited memory of the Nexus wouldn't this bottleneck affect performance?

It has double the RAM of the 3GS. The internal flash storage is 4GB or something and more storage is on the SD card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

btw check these benchmarks the HTC Touch HD has a 1GHz snapdragon doesn't it?

iPhone 3GS 882 fps vs HTC HD 412 fps.

That's an OpenGL benchmark. The Zune HD would probably beat the 3GS in that test. Tegra 2 vs Mali-55 would be interesting but NVidia have a better history of high performance graphics.

I'm not saying the next iphone won't be able to be the others on spec, I'm just saying it probably won't be the spec that means they can't compete - it'll be the display. OLED doesn't hold a candle to an LED backlit IPS screen.
post #12 of 19
The Zune is irrelevant.

People have this strange belief that because the name NVidia is associated with the Tegra, it's Arm based architecture is like their graphics cards.

It's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

That's an OpenGL benchmark. The Zune HD would probably beat the 3GS in that test. Tegra 2 vs Mali-55 would be interesting but NVidia have a better history of high performance graphics.

I'm not saying the next iphone won't be able to be the others on spec, I'm just saying it probably won't be the spec that means they can't compete - it'll be the display. OLED doesn't hold a candle to an LED backlit IPS screen.
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post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The Zune is irrelevant.

People have this strange belief that because the name NVidia is associated with the Tegra, it's Arm based architecture is like their graphics cards.

It's not.

The Unreal 3 demo on Tegra 2 looks way better than the demo on the 3GS, it's not just the brand being judged. MALI-55 will improve on the 3GS but Tegra 2 is 2-3 times faster than Tegra 1, which is already either on par or exceeds the 3GS (both get 35-40fps running Quake 3).

Anyway, the issue is what can/will they do to beat the Droid? If it's not spec then what is it? Consumer gadgets all have a limited set of traits that sell them: design, performance, features, price. If they are going to beat Droid/Google etc, it has to excel in at least one of those areas.

Design it already has going for it but some people think it's getting stale, performance IMO is likely to just match it not vastly exceed it, I'd expect it to be more expensive and typically Apple don't go the features route especially with tightly controlled OS and app distribution.

The only thing I can see being hugely improved is the display quality but I don't think that will be a big selling point for people.
post #14 of 19
140,000 "tightly controlled" Apps, 120.000 more than Androids uncontrolled java based applications.

You won't be seeing much in the way of 3D games running on Android, then there are the memory limitations I outlined before.

I can sync my 4.5GB of iPhone Apps to a new iPhone within an hour, can Android do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

... tightly controlled OS and app distribution.
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post #15 of 19
Well, well, well...

I believe it's pointless to factor the software in. Ubuntu can't match OS X. It never could. Tested, verified, sealed.

Quote:
Motorola Droid Specs:
- Carrier: Verizon
- Available: October 30th 2009
- Networks: CDMA dual band (800/1900 MHz); CDMA2000 1xRTT/1xEV-DO rev.0/1xEV-DO rev.A
- Display: 3.7-inch screen with 854×480 (16:9 widescreen) capacitive touchscreen
- Camera: 5 megapixel camera with autofocus and LED flash and video recording
- Operating system: Google Android 2.0 OS
- Input: QWERTY keyboard, touchscreen
- CPU: 600 MHz ARM Cortex A8 Processor
- Memory: 256 MB RAM / 512 MB ROM
- Memory card: microSD/microSDHC
- Connectivity: GPS, Wi-Fi, 3.5mm HeadPhone Jack
- Misc: AMR-NB/WB, MP3, PCM / WAV, AAC, AAC +, eAAC +, WMA
- Media: MPEG-4, H263, H264, WMV
- Form factor:
- Battery: 1400mAh Li-ion
- Talk Time: 420 minutes
- Standby Time: 450 hours
- Dimensions: 60.00 x 115.80 x 13.70 mm
- Weight: 169g

Then what seriously remains to beat?
Screen? Yep, we know this, 3 generations of the device are long enough; time to change for the better.
Camera MPixels? Not that it's anyhow necessary, but the market dictates...
Battery? Wow! You're going to put descent 1800mAh in, aren't you? That's what we're waiting for since all 3 generations of your phone, Apple.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #16 of 19
Google just enabled multitouch on the Nexus with pinch to zoom etc.

OTA update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Well, well, well...

I believe it's pointless to factor the software in. Ubuntu can't beat OS X. Tested, verified, sealed.



Then what seriously remains to beat?
Screen? Yep, we know this, 3 generations of the device are long enough; time to change for the better.
Camera MPixels? Not that it's anyhow necessary, but the market dictates...
Battery? Wow! You're going to put descent 1800mAh, aren't you? That's what we're waiting for since all 3 generations of your phone, Apple.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

OTA update.

OTA stands for Over-the-Air?

But two phones are just not comparable! What to beat? EVDO rev A? 3G UMTS is already far better! And if iPhone 2010 is LTE, Droid will be nowhere near...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #18 of 19
This is for the Nexus, not the Droid.

This is the one for the next iPhone to beat, the Google phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

OTA stands for Over-the-Air?

But two phones are just not comparable! What to beat? EVDO rev A? 3G UMTS is already far better! And if iPhone 2010 is LTE, Droid will be nowhere near...
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

This is for the Nexus, not the Droid.
This is the one for the next iPhone to beat, the Google phone.

Ah. That's true; Nexus is expected to be full HSPA... But not droid; and nexus is to be seen around yet...



P.S. Wuh??? "Mechanical autofocus"? On a phone? Bwga...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
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