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Apple removes display of Adobe Flash content from iPad promos - Page 2

post #41 of 139
Quote:
It's not a great user experience if half the web is unavailable to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You can't watch Hulu on any phone right now anyway, so the exclusion of flash makes no difference. Youtube, Vimeo, ESPN, NYTimes, CNN and many others have developed mobile sites and mobile apps that stream H.264 that any phone can display. So really nothing has been lost.

By saying that the iPad will display mobile sites instead of the full sites, I think that you are making his point for him.
post #42 of 139
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Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Good, we don't need flash.

Want 75 million iPhone OS users visiting and using your site?

Dump Flash or provide alternatives.

Adapt or lose.

No, thanks. I think we are fine with the 1+ billion Windows users.
post #43 of 139
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Originally Posted by funkfeend View Post

How great would the user experience be when the browser crashes every couple of minutes, and the battery is dead in an hour?


Them Flash grapes would've been SOUR. Who needs them?
post #44 of 139
The irony of that presentation is that it shows us exactly what we don't want on the internet.

The way the mobile web is set up now is that animated graphics and videos don't play unless you initiate them. That way the page loads faster. One the iPhone embedded video plays full screen automatically. What's the point of watching a tiny embedded video on a small screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Well, it works great on the Nexus One. So why shouldn't it on the iPad?

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...1/popup10.html
post #45 of 139
Sorry your link is broken, it doesn't work on my iPhone.

So you have a working Nexus using Flash or was it just vapourware?

I seem to recall Steve Jobs telling Adobe that they didn't want Flash-Lite on the iPhone and to come back with a full featured version.

Well that was over three years ago and what has Adobe got?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Well, it works great on the Nexus One. So why shouldn't it on the iPad?

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...1/popup10.html
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post #46 of 139
I find it funny that all the comments so far have been debating whether the device should have flash or not. It completely misses the fact that Apple was advertising something that didn't actually run on the product. Is that really lost on everyone? Or is it selective avoidance to not admit apple was falsely advertising the iPad running flash?
post #47 of 139
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Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

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It's not a great user experience if half the web is unavailable to me.

What half of the web are you talking about? Currently on the iPhone every web site I frequent is freely available. The only half I can think that has not actively embraced mobile streaming is porn. Which is surprising, they like to brag about being on the edge of technology. There is no reason for them to be behind.

Quote:
By saying that the iPad will display mobile sites instead of the full sites, I think that you are making his point for him.

I'm saying the way its currently set up the iPad will display video from mobile sites. At the same time mobile websites are designed for finger UI touch screens, so they are still more appropriate for the iPad than websites designed for pixel accurate pointers.
post #48 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The irony of that presentation is that it shows us exactly what we don't want on the internet.

The way the mobile web is set up now is that animated graphics and videos don't play unless you initiate them. That way the page loads faster. One the iPhone embedded video plays full screen automatically. What's the point of watching a tiny embedded video on a small screen.

Why can't people decide them self if they want Flash or not? Why do you want Steve Jobs tell you what you can or can't do? Seriously, that's called "Stockholm syndrome".

I'm not a fan of Flash. Even on a desktop OS. But Flash is a part of the web so a web device should support it. Period. If Flash is buggy on Mac OS (and iPhone OS) Apple should work together with Adobe to fix it. If you don't want it, OK, just disable it.
post #49 of 139
No Hulu on the iPad? Bummer. Guess I'd better keep my MacBook.

There was a theory floating around that Flash was not forthcoming because AT&T didn't want people using bandwidth up streaming TV shows. Does anyone else still think that?
post #50 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Good, we don't need flash.

Want 75 million iPhone OS users visiting and using your site?

Dump Flash or provide alternatives.

Adapt or lose.

Speak for yourself. I am iPhone OS user and I need Flash. Likewise, most if not all iPhone users I know want it. There is big number of iPhone users that don't just follow SJ commands, and Apple is risking to lose them in future by ignoring current standards.
post #51 of 139
Technically it was just a picture on a page. Its not like Apple showed someone clicking on a flash video and it actually played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I find it funny that all the comments so far have been debating whether the device should have flash or not. It completely misses the fact that Apple was advertising something that didn't actually run on the product. Is that really lost on everyone? Or is it selective avoidance to not admit apple was falsely advertising the iPad running flash?
post #52 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Sorry your link is broken, it doesn't work on my iPhone.

So you have a working Nexus using Flash or was it just vapourware?

I seem to recall Steve Jobs telling Adobe that they didn't want Flash-Lite on the iPhone and to come back with a full featured version.

Well that was over three years ago and what has Adobe got?

The link is not broken but your device can't handle the full web We are not talking about Flash Lite. Flash 10.1 is still in beta but it works the way Flash works (if we like it or not does not matter here).
post #53 of 139
Once Hulu starts offering non-flash version of content-- and they will, do you think they don't care about millions and millions of Apple devices and the ad dollars they represent?-- it'll be pretty much game over. You Tube and Vimeo have already fallen, many sites already have iPhone friendly versions and a lot of people have no problem at all paying 99¢ for versions of their beloved online Flash games.

I don't think people are grasping the growing clout of Apple's mobile devices, and their ability to dictate terms. It doesn't have a blessed thing to do with liking or disliking Flash or loyalty or anything like that. It has to do with catering to the wishes of your customers. Apple has unleashed an army of customers, and online providers will follow. It's just good business.
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post #54 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Technically it was just a picture on a page. Its not like Apple showed someone clicking on a flash video and it actually played.

True, but it's implied by the picture. You'd think they would have used a non-flash site for those promo's, theres some damn good sites that don't run flash.
post #55 of 139
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Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Once Hulu starts offering non-flash version of content-- and they will, do you think they don't care about millions and millions of Apple devices and the ad dollars they represent?-- it'll be pretty much game over. You Tube and Vimeo have already fallen, many sites already have iPhone friendly versions and a lot of people have no problem at all paying 99¢ for versions of their beloved online Flash games.

I don't think people are grasping the growing clout of Apple's mobile devices, and their ability to dictate terms. It doesn't have a blessed thing to do with liking or disliking Flash or loyalty or anything like that. It has to do with catering to the wishes of your customers. Apple has unleashed an army of customers, and online providers will follow. It's just good business.

The next step youtube needs to make is convert embedded youtube video to HTML5.
post #56 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Why can't people decide them self if they want Flash or not? Why do you want Steve Jobs tell you what you can or can't do? Seriously, that's called "Stockholm syndrome".

Because Apple is pushing to replace Flash with technology that will in the long term be better. Ultimately that's all I care about.

MLB.TV

Quote:
I'm not a fan of Flash. Even on a desktop OS. But Flash is a part of the web so a web device should support it. Period. If Flash is buggy on Mac OS (and iPhone OS) Apple should work together with Adobe to fix it. If you don't want it, OK, just disable it.

You need to read more about the history of Apple and Adobe, Apple has tried to work with Adobe in the past and Adobe turned them down cold. This more than anything will force Adobe to improve Flash, and if they don't it will be replaced by a superior technology, either way its to the benefit of us all.
post #57 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm saying the way its currently set up the iPad will display video from mobile sites. At the same time mobile websites are designed for finger UI touch screens, so they are still more appropriate for the iPad than websites designed for pixel accurate pointers.

So will the iPad deliver the full internet or not? Doesn't sound like it.

I'm disappointed that they didn't release a fully finished product, but they still have a few months to get the software up to snuff. I hope they can do it.
post #58 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Speak for yourself. I am iPhone OS user and I need Flash. Likewise, most if not all iPhone users I know want it.

Sorry, but 30 million iPhone users are quite happy without it. My Aunt Mildred doesn't even know what Flash IS, and yet she loves her iPhone. Maybe it would be good for you, but the iPhone wasn't designed to play Flash. I'm glad the Flash isn't on the iPhone because it is buggy and drains the battery. Who needs that?
post #59 of 139
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Originally Posted by crossuab View Post

I agree, but if the vast majority of the web uses flash, how can Steve Jobs boast a great web experience on the iPad? When is HTML 5 going to be universally adopted? in a year? 2 years? 5? I think half the value of iPad is the web experience on a screen larger than my iPhone's.
I love the thought of getting on the web quickly without powering up my laptop or desktop. But not being able to watch a TV show on Hulu or a video on CNN, what's the point? I'm just tired of Jobs peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining. It's not a great user experience if half the web is unavailable to me.

Spot on.

I'm getting tired of people telling me how bad Flash is. It is one of the most common web standards today. I can live without it on small iPhone screen, as I browse on iPhone mostly for (text) information. But on full screen device like iPad, capable of presenting web page without constant zooming in and out, omission of Flash is big problem for me.

Flash is old and crappy? So is English. Or Chinese - that alphabet is nightmare. Lets scrap them and move whole world to Esperanto. It's modern language, easy to learn, fluid and efficient.

You reckon that'll happen any time soon?

I don't think Apple can bully web into ditching Flash any time soon. Flash will be around long time after this generation of iPad gets redundant.
post #60 of 139
The fastest growing site for video access is Facebook, that largely is because people link video from all over the web on Facebook. Facebook has said it is actively working to provide HTML5 video links for mobile devices. That functionality will be available soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Once Hulu starts offering non-flash version of content-- and they will, do you think they don't care about millions and millions of Apple devices and the ad dollars they represent?-- it'll be pretty much game over. You Tube and Vimeo have already fallen, many sites already have iPhone friendly versions and a lot of people have no problem at all paying 99¢ for versions of their beloved online Flash games.
post #61 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The fastest growing site for video access is Facebook, that largely is because people link video from all over the web on Facebook. Facebook has said it is actively working to provide HTML5 video links for mobile devices. That functionality will be available soon.

You're right, I forgot about that. That's probably the game changer, right there.
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post #62 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You need to read more about the history of Apple and Adobe, Apple has tried to work with Adobe in the past and Adobe turned them down cold. This more than anything will force Adobe to improve Flash, and if they don't it will be replaced by a superior technology, either way its to the benefit of us all.

I know the relationship very well and remember that because Apple shocked them with ending the support of Carbon there is no 64-bit Photoshop now available for the Mac.

So what we have now is a buggy Flash support on the Mac, no Flash on iPhone/iPod/iPad, no 64-bit PS. If customers want the full power of CS4 now they better use it on Windows. Maybe Adobe should consider to stop supporting CS5 on the Mac and give Mac users a $70 sales discount so they can put Win7 on their Macs Would be funny.
post #63 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Sorry, but 30 million iPhone users are quite happy without it. My Aunt Mildred doesn't even know what Flash IS, and yet she loves her iPhone. Maybe it would be good for you, but the iPhone wasn't designed to play Flash. I'm glad the Flash isn't on the iPhone because it is buggy and drains the battery. Who needs that?

Check my other post - I can live without Flash on iPhone, screen is too small anyway. I mostly browse for text information on phone. But from full screen device like iPad, I'd really expect full web experience. Specially that is is advertised as the best web experience ever.

SJ looks like he is thinking Flash will disappear just by him ignoring it. I'm finding that just too arrogant for my liking... additionally, I don't think Apple is strong enough to bully Flash out any time soon.

Don't know how you got to 30 million users number, but even if that is true - it is less than half of iPhone users. Hypothetically speaking (as our numbers are hypothetical), I don't think having 60% of your users unhappy is good for your business in a long run.

I am reasonably happy with iPhone at present. Stanza on phone means more for me than Flash on phone. But in 2 years time, or whenever I decide to change phone, something from other manufacturers with eBook reader like Stanza (Stanza for Android?), a few extras like turn-by-turn navigation and Flash support, might easily turn me other way. And I don't think I'm the only one.

A lot of people think Flash omission has nothing to do with Flash "crappyness", but with Apple killing free Flash games competition for Application store. I don't know... but I'm wondering.
post #64 of 139
The "real internet" is relative as technology is always in flux. Remember back when web sites had to be optimized for IE proprietary extensions. Safari and Firefox had to go through a painful period of breaking the web from IE proprietary extensions to force web designers into following W3C standards.

People complained at the time that Safari and Firefox could not render web pages quickly or correctly. The goal was to break free of the grip of IE. This forced MS to submit many of its extensions to the W3C as official standards. The web as a whole is better than it would have been.

As I said earlier this will either force Adobe to improve flash in the way that it should, or flash will be replaced with a better technology, either way the outcome is better for us all.

I would ask why do you guys accept mediocrity instead of pushing for excellence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

So will the iPad deliver the full internet or not? Doesn't sound like it.
post #65 of 139
It was no surprise, Apple introduced Cocoa nearly 10 years ago. Apple has been saying for years developers need to move over from Carbon. Adobe knew this in advance its not Apple's fault they didn't heed the warning. Apple was only using Carbon 64 as a way to help the transition to Cocoa. Adobe knew Apple wanted everyone to move onto Cocoa.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

I know the relationship very well and remember that because Apple shocked them with ending the support of Carbon there is no 64-bit Photoshop now available for the Mac.

So what we have now is a buggy Flash support on the Mac, no Flash on iPhone/iPod/iPad, no 64-bit PS. If customers want the full power of CS4 now they better use it on Windows. Maybe Adobe should consider to stop supporting CS5 on the Mac and give Mac users a $70 sales discount so they can put Win7 on their Macs Would be funny.
post #66 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Well, it works great on the Nexus One. So why shouldn't it on the iPad?

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...1/popup10.html

No, it doesn't - i have the Nexus. Video playback is choppy, the browser crashes (in fact, the whole phone hangs), using flash reduces battery life by about 60 - 80% and the phone turns into a toaster. Same thing happened with my HTC touch. I've yet to see flash work properly on a phone.

If there's one out there, someone point me in the right direction.

You know what - flash is a big bag of hurt. It's for Adobe to fix this. CS4 is an unstable mess on my Mac Pro, no one is shouting at Apple for that - just go visit the Adobe forums.

Adobe - get your act together, fix the plug-in, reissue it to android users and apple users once you've fixed it - you've got enough staff, just focus on it and sort it.
post #67 of 139
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Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Remember back when web sites had to be optimized for IE proprietary extensions. Safari and Firefox had to go through a painful period of breaking the web from IE proprietary extensions to force web designers into following W3C standards.

I see your point. The iPad will be painful to use for a couple of years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would ask why do you guys accept mediocrity instead of pushing for excellence?

I've wanted a cool tablet computer to surf the web and play music and videos around the house for many years.

I won't accept mediocrity, so I'll still wait for a device that just works, without having to worry about formats and codecs.

I'm damn disappointed with the iPad.
post #68 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Quote:
It's not a great user experience if half the web is unavailable to me.



By saying that the iPad will display mobile sites instead of the full sites, I think that you are making his point for him.

It's not "half the web".

Flash was never intended for video playback - inexperienced/amateur/untrained developers use flash for video playback because they can't code for sh*t.

iPlayer, YouTube, Hulu and Facebook are all working on (have worked on/have deployed) a sensible auto detecting alternative, which (for video) is far superior with faster load, smoother playback and more responsive scanning through content. The rest of the world will/must follow soon.

So flash online - about 30 - 50% is video (doesn't need to be, and it's not a difficult thing to display video better than this - there's no new technology required, it's already here, it's about learning to develop web content properly). 20 - 30% is spank the monkey ad's/porn - better not to see them anyway and the rest are games and unnecessary crap animation and nasty, inaccessible web sites made entirely in flash by lazy/untrained web 'designers' who don't know the proper, accessible way to present a page of typeset text without a thirty second "loading" animation everytime a new page is called.

The games, we will miss, sorely - so come on Adobe, pull YOUR finger out and fix YOUR software. It doesn't work on my Nexus, it doesn't work on my Samsung netbook and it didn't work on my HTC Hero. Choppy video, hangs/crashes, hot processors and battery drain are a common factor with the flash plug in on every low-end mobile device.

Sort it.
post #69 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Speak for yourself. I am iPhone OS user and I need Flash. Likewise, most if not all iPhone users I know want it. There is big number of iPhone users that don't just follow SJ commands, and Apple is risking to lose them in future by ignoring current standards.

No, you don't want flash - you want streaming video and interactive games. There are ways to do this other than flash (until such time as Adobe fix their issues) - don't mistake a delivery method for the only means of displaying interactive content. Being The ubiquitous 'standard' does not mean this is the only, or the best way.

Microsoft windows is a ubiquitous 'standard' - I'm guessing most of you choose an alternative, or you wouldn't be here debating this issue so passionately. The dominant technology is not the one to which we must pander, we must constantly push to make it better. Flash sucks - not what flash can do, that's incredible, but the plug-in is a mess. It's proprietary, only the owner can take responsibility.

Move forward, develop. There are no boundaries, other than those we set ourselves.
post #70 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I see your point. The iPad will be painful to use for a couple of years.




I've wanted a cool tablet computer to surf the web and play music and videos around the house for many years.

I won't accept mediocrity, so I'll still wait for a device that just works, without having to worry about formats and codecs.

I'm damn disappointed with the iPad.

Why, because Adobe's plug-in is flawed? Why is that a reason to be disappointed in the manufacturers of the iPad? THhs will surf the web and play music and videos (bet you never dreamed it could be used for basic content creation with iWork). This does 'just work'. From your dream list, only one thing is missing, and that is not Apple's fault.
post #71 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

No Hulu on the iPad? Bummer. Guess I'd better keep my MacBook.

The iPad is not meant to replace anything. If you buy an iPad you will still need a computer to sync it with. I know many people who own both laptops and netbooks because they don't want to carry around 6 pounds laptop just to check emails, browse the net, and watch movies.
post #72 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

SJ looks like he is thinking Flash will disappear just by him ignoring it. I'm finding that just too arrogant for my liking... additionally, I don't think Apple is strong enough to bully Flash out any time soon.

I don't believe Apple wants to necessarily kill flash. But they feel they have an alternative that works better. What rule says everyone has to support flash?


Quote:
A lot of people think Flash omission has nothing to do with Flash "crappyness", but with Apple killing free Flash games competition for Application store. I don't know... but I'm wondering.

Apple is directly contributing to 3D animation that can be rendered directly in the browser. Very soon these elements will be used to make animations and games that play right in the browser.


WebGL

CSS Visual Effects
post #73 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The problem with that argument is that you still couldn't do it if Apple put Flash Lite on their iPhones. Some things to consider...[LIST=1][*]Flash Lite can't play video from the popular sites you mentioned.

Flash Lite 3 (released in 2007) supports FLV. Although I've never tried the New York Times website, other Flash video worked perfectly.

Quote:
[*]If it's Apple fault that Flash wasn't on the 2007 iPhone then why isn't Flash slated to arrive on Android, WebOS, WinMo or Symbian until mid-2010, 3.5 years later? Surely that can't be Apple's fault too.

Why not use Flash Lite in the meantime? It supports most of the features that the average user is interested in.

Quote:
[*]Flash 10.1 is going to require Android OS v2.0, leaving out a great many new Android handsets.

I can't think of a single Android handset that won't be getting the v2.0 upgrade once it's available for non-Google experience devices.

Quote:
[*]Netbooks with 1.6Ghz Atom processors and 1-2GB RAM can't play Flash videos from these sites without them being choppy so Flash 10.1 has got to be great for these videos to stream on 400-600GHz ARM processors with only a 128-512MB RAM. I have doubt.

Again, my N95 used to play Flash video fine. From the videos posted on the Internet, the N900 fairs very well too. Flash for Mac is incredibly poorly coded. That's not the case on all platforms though.
post #74 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I see your point. The iPad will be painful to use for a couple of years.

No, the iPhone has already set things up for the iPad.

Quote:
I won't accept mediocrity, so I'll still wait for a device that just works, without having to worry about formats and codecs. I'm damn disappointed with the iPad.

That is the point of HTML5, so that the user does not have to be concerned with conflicting formats and codecs. One codec that plays on everything with minimum drain on battery life.

Luckily for you every computer manufacturer will be launching a tablet over the course of the year. So you will have ample choice.
post #75 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossuab View Post

I agree, but if the vast majority of the web uses flash, how can Steve Jobs boast a great web experience on the iPad? When is HTML 5 going to be universally adopted? in a year? 2 years? 5? I think half the value of iPad is the web experience on a screen larger than my iPhone's.
I love the thought of getting on the web quickly without powering up my laptop or desktop. But not being able to watch a TV show on Hulu or a video on CNN, what's the point? I'm just tired of Jobs peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining. It's not a great user experience if half the web is unavailable to me.

I 100% Agree.... Don't bill it as the best web experience ever if you can't see the majority of the video content on the web....
post #76 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

The iPad is not meant to replace anything. If you buy an iPad you will still need a computer to sync it with. I know many people who own both laptops and netbooks because they don't want to carry around 6 pounds laptop just to check emails, browse the net, and watch movies.

I didn't mean I was going to replace my MacBook with an iPad. What I meant is if you intend to visit a website with flash, like Hulu, you have to bring a MacBook with you while traveling. You have no choice. Which unfortunately seems to be a reoccurring theme with Apple lately.
post #77 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadgarrison View Post

...
My bigger issue is Apple's attitude towards it, pretending like the need doesn't exist or like anyone's opinions outside of their cult are not relevant.

... but why not reach out and work with Adobe (or buy them) to help them create something to bridge the gap. It's a snobbery thing with Apple, and that doesn't help anyone.

I have read variants of this sentiment from various posters on various topics. I have no inside information on Apple's attitude nor behind-the-scene efforts pertaining to marketing, Adobe, or Flash.

What are the facts that support the sentiment vs. the posters' own attitudinal bias and assumptions?
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post #78 of 139
"Earlier this week, and a day ahead of the iPad launch, I interviewed Hulu CEO Jason Kilar at the DLD Conference in Munich...."

When I asked Kilar if he was going to make a special version of a Hulu app for the iPad, Kilar said: “We are very big believers in mobile and we don’t think about (just) one device only.”

“The computer in your pocket is very important,” he said. “Mobile is a monster – we are very bullish. We will embrace any device.”


GIGAOM


The other point you have to think about is that Hulu nor Netflix own the content, they have to get permission for its distribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I didn't mean I was going to replace my MacBook with an iPad. What I meant is if you intend to visit a website with flash, like Hulu, you have to bring a MacBook with you while traveling. You have no choice. Which unfortunately seems to be a reoccurring theme with Apple lately.
post #79 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I was surprised that Apple would make such a mistake in their product marketing materials. I'm sure someone's rear end is smarting right now!

Yeah, Steve Jobs at its unveiling, who looked liked the only FOOL showing page after page of incomplete web content and then stating that the iPad was "THE best browsing experience you'll ever have. It's phenomenal."
HA!
Even the audience laughed.
post #80 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

"Earlier this week, and a day ahead of the iPad launch, I interviewed Hulu CEO Jason Kilar at the DLD Conference in Munich...."

When I asked Kilar if he was going to make a special version of a Hulu app for the iPad, Kilar said: We are very big believers in mobile and we dont think about (just) one device only.

The computer in your pocket is very important, he said. Mobile is a monster we are very bullish. We will embrace any device.


GIGAOM

The other point you have to think about is that Hulu nor Netflix own the content, they have to get permission for its distribution.

Yup, and John Gruber has jumped in about how websites are beginning to move away from Flash. http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/blue_boxes

And see this on Flickr: Do you really need Flash for the Web?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/4314276957/
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