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Adobe "lazy", Flash "unstable and bug prone" - Jobs

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Have to write something here.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=222600577

Quote:
iPad Vs Flash: Jobs Calls Adobe Lazy

Apple CEO says new tablet computer doesn't support Flash because Adobe's Web graphics program is unstable and bug prone.

By Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
February 1, 2010 08:07 AM

Apple CEO Steve Jobs defended his company's decision not to include support for Adobe Flash in his company's new iPad portable computing device.

Jobs said Adobe's multimedia graphics platform for Internet publishing is unstable and bug-prone, the result of "lazy" development procedures, according to a published report.

"They are lazy," said Jobs. "They have the potential to do interesting things but they refuse to do it," said Jobs, according to a report published by Wired last week.

"Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy," Jobs reportedly said while speaking at a gathering of Apple employees.

Adobe last week said no Flash support means Apple's hot new tablet is incompatible with millions of Web sites.

"There's something important missing from Apple's approach to connecting consumers to content," wrote Flash marketing manager Adrian Ludwig, in a blog post. "It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and customers," said Ludwig.

"If I want to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJabnot to mention millions of other sites on the Web, I'll be out of luck," he added.

Adobe is developing a workaround. Its forthcoming Packager for iPhone kit will allow Flash developers to build apps that run on the iPhone and, by extension, the iPad.

The lack of Flash support isn't doing much to mute the buzz surrounding the iPad launch. And Apple insisted the device is plenty flexiblecapable of running the more than 140,000 programs currently available on the Apple App Store.

"iPad is our most advanced technology in a magical and revolutionary device at an unbelievable price," said Jobs, at the debut event.

Pricing starts at $499 for the 16GB model, $599 for the 32GB model, and $699 for the 64GB version.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #2 of 18
not having flash for an iphone is okay, because the competition is so weak in their applications and what their phones does, it really doesn't matter, but for the ipad, you can't sell a web experience without flash. The ipad is going to have to depend on selling people as an ereader, gaming device, and newsreader for sites who program their dynamic content without flash.

Could apple pull it off? I believe so, but it will still limit their device.

I would like to see a poll asking consumers how satisfied they are with flash. I personally, would rather my browser crash maybe once every week or so, then to live without all of the dynamic content flash brings.
post #3 of 18
Not putting Flash on the iPad will always be regarded as a mistake by people who won't buy an iPad, but the fact of the matter is that it has sent the message to web developers everywhere. Apple have small market share in the global playing field, but for whatever reason they can be and have been very influential in recent years.

It would not surprise me in the least it this marks a point in time when Flash's timeline was visible for a moment. HTML5 is the future, and all Apple has done is helped push that along. But I don't expect many to agree with that. Most people hear Mac guys saying this they no doubt think: "fanboy", but it's not the reason why it's said.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #4 of 18
I don't see video as the main reason for flash. It's games. My wife plays a few Facebook games on a daily basis and couldn't live without flash...

Except... there are plenty of great free games on the App store that could do just fine to replace her favorites for when she's not at her laptop. So games really aren't that much of an issue in the long run.
post #5 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I don't see video as the main reason for flash. It's games. My wife plays a few Facebook games on a daily basis and couldn't live without flash.

So it's not really flash per se, but rather Farmville

Basically, it's Facebook apps. HTML5 Facebook apps anyone?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #6 of 18
Personally, I am sick of this debate about flash. Jobs is spot on the money about this. I would despise the thought of running flash on a mobile device (seeing as they are limited in performance and battery life as it is). I hope that Apple continues to persevere on this matter.

I have an iMac and my partner also has a brand new 21.5, reasonably fast iMac. When using the internet, the flash plug-in can sometimes thrash the processor up to 180-190%, and still appear glitchy and jumpy on the content. This is on a computer that can run a dozen applications at once, without flinching.

This is absolutely ridiculous, and completely impractical for a mobile device. Think about what 95% of using the total iPhone processor would do for the battery. I don't understand the need for flash content on a portable device, most content is tacky and less functional than it should be, some if it is purely for showing video (which I would debate the need for), some of it is for advertising (surely a massive non-benefit!) and some is for games. Personally, I wish I could get rid of it our iMacs as well!

I think that Adobe could very well improve flash to where it was an efficient enough application for use, but they are sitting on their market position with apathy.
post #7 of 18
My main problem with flash (amongst the many others) is that it isn't an open format. Developers are required to buy expensive licenses from Adobe. Apple also has no say in the direction, compatability or general bugginess of it. At least with open formats they can work towards redressing problems. Open formats tend to be better developed anyway because they're built by consensus from individuals and groups with a vested interest in the quality of the format, as opposed to making money from it. I see this as being one of Apple's major problems with Flash also. In time new web standards will be able to do everything and more that Flash can, even JavaScript can do a lot including games.
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

In time new web standards will be able to do everything and more that Flash can, even JavaScript can do a lot including games.

The HTML demos certainly show the animation capabilities are all there:

http://9elements.com/io/projects/html5/canvas/

and full-fledged apps with complex interfaces:

http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/

With the video support in there too, it's just going to take a little time for the transition and Flash will be used less and less. The problem I see is that Adobe are the biggest developers for content creation apps in this field and I haven't seen any IDE for HTML Canvas yet.
post #9 of 18
After experiencing Silverlight on the NBCOlympics website (720p video delivered crystal clear without glitch on an old Mac Mini with Intel graphics) and without even stressing the CPU, I'm forced to agree that Flash is terrible. If Microsoft can deliver that sort of performance, there is no reason Adobe can't, and Apple blocking them isn't an acceptable excuse.
post #10 of 18
I run Folding@Home on my 3 Macs 24/7. When I found that Flash was eating valuable CPU cycles while doing nothing, I installed Click-to-Flash.

I haven't "clicked" very often, so I feel that I don't really miss much of importance. And missing those irritating banner ads etc. is a real bonus!
post #11 of 18
I propose Apple come up with something like flash player and it's editor platform lite for free as iTune or Quick-time. If possible, do it in open source. I really want o see Apple invest some time and resources to help create another alternative standard to kill Flash, a CPU resource hogging, memory power drainage and battery/energy vampire application many hate, but have to put up with due to no alternative.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jea View Post

I propose Apple come up with something like flash player and it's editor platform lite for free as iTune or Quick-time. If possible, do it in open source. ...

If you were paying attention, then you would know that Apple is doing precisely that.
post #13 of 18
Apple is NOT winning friends in the Web authoring community, especially with the upcoming Flash 10.1, which takes better advantage of the memory management in MacOS X 10.5/10.6 and also uses a lot of GPU calls to make Flash vastly less CPU intensive on Macs.

Besides, if Apple REALLY wants to move forward from Flash, they should offer HTML 5.0 authoring tools AND tools to convert from Flash calls to their HTML 5.0 equivalents, which would win a lot of goodwill in the web authoring community. Hopefully, Apple will show such tools at WWDC 2010.
post #14 of 18
Mr Me

Would you please give me a link to what Apple is doing. Thanks.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by John E C View Post

Mr Me

Would you please give me a link to what Apple is doing. Thanks.

You can start here. The following paragraph is about as clear as it can be:
Quote:
The HTML5 editors are Ian Hickson of Google, Inc. and David Hyatt of Apple, Inc.[3]

For official information, read the current HTML5 editor's draft. Pay particular attention to the copyright notice.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

For official information, read the current HTML5 editor's draft. Pay particular attention to the copyright notice.

All the MORE reason Apple should officially sell developer and web master tools specifically for HTML 5.0, including conversion tools from Adobe Flash. That way, web page coders can do a fairly seamless migration to HTML 5.0. Let's see what Apple offers at WWDC 2010.
post #17 of 18
It's worth noting that flash is particularly bad on OS X. I got tired of hearing the fans on my Mac Pro ramp up when I had a lot of browser windows open, so I installed Click2Flash. I've since installed it on my Power Mac 2x2.0 at work, which seriously needs help keeping up these days

I do believe that expecting people to go without Flash on something like the iPad is a mistake; on the iPhone I simply don't care.

However, if it marks the turning point from Flash to HTML5, so be it.
post #18 of 18
I understand picnik.com (recently purchased by Google) is written primarily, if not entirely, in Flash. I know nothing about the relative capabilities, but does anyone know whether a site like picnik.com could be written solely in HTML5 at the moment? If so, would it be just as easy, or far more difficult?
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