or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Steve Jobs disparages Google, Adobe at company meeting - reports
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Steve Jobs disparages Google, Adobe at company meeting - reports

post #1 of 248
Thread Starter 
Numerous reports have alleged that Apple co-founder Steve Jobs discredited Google's "don't be evil" mantra as bogus and predicted the demise of Adobe Flash at an internal company meeting.

A number of outlets received supposed second-hand reports from Apple's "town hall" style meeting with employees last week. While exact quotes vary depending on the source, the message Jobs had about Google remained essentially the same.

An anonymous source who contacted Wired claimed Jobs used an expletive to refer to Google's "don't be evil" philosophy. But that quote was disputed by someone who reached out to Daring Fireball's John Gruber. The exact quote from Jobs, the source alleged, was "Don't be evil is a load of crap."

Wired also reported that Jobs believes Google, which is behind the Android mobile operating system, wants to "kill" the iPhone.

Though there have been rumors of tension between Google and Apple for months, last month Google CEO Eric Schmidt, who formerly served on the Apple Board of Directors, downplayed any perception of a rivalry between the two technology giants. Schmidt said he has a "special spot" in his heart for Apple.

It was Google's entrance into the mobile phone space with Android, as well as its forthcoming Chrome OS for netbooks, that forced Schmidt to resign from Apple's board. Apple and Google were the subjects of an investigation from the Federal Trade Commission over potential antitrust ties.

As for Adobe, Wired's source said Jobs called the company "lazy." He allegedly said most Mac crashes are due to Flash, and "the world is moving to HTML5." The latter comment is consistent with Apple's own public moves toward HTML5. Even Google has dabbled with Flash alternatives for YouTube.

"They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it," Jobs was paraphrased as saying. "They don't do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon."

But Daring Fireball's source also said that Jobs was not entirely negative on the subject of Adobe. The executive was reportedly "nostalgic" about the old days of the company.

Finally, MacRumors received a number of additional details from a source who claimed to be in attendance in at the meeting. As with all other reports, the details come from an anonymous source:

Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone that Android/Google won't be able to keep up with.
iPad is up there with the iPhone and Mac as the most important products Jobs has been a part of (this is consistent with a previous quote attributed to Jobs).
Regarding the Lala acquisition, Apple was interested in bringing those people into the iTunes team.
Next iPhone coming is an A+ update.
New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level.
Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it.
post #2 of 248
Adobe is a really sad company, cant believe they're going to just sit on flash as it is currently, its an old archaic technology that needs serious revamping.
post #3 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Google CEO Eric Schmidt, who formally served on the Apple Board of Directors...

don't you mean formerly? At times this site is pretty sad.
post #4 of 248
The man is on point...
post #5 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it.


I doubt we will ever see BlueRay DVD playback on the Mac.

The reason for this is Steve wants to reduce the mechanical and replaceable parts of computer so they are reduced down to a single simple logic board, assembled and pressed together by machines.

Less fuss, less trouble, less returns or repairs under warranty. If a device like a iPad fails, it's simply replaced and not repaired.

He's also not allowing third party software like Flash that he says is "bug prone" neither.

So we see where he is going, giving the movie studios their hardware lock again, BlueRay disks are vulnerable to hairline cracking, in my experience.

The new Mac's he's talking about, are going to be based upon the iPad like design, thin and all sealed up with new A4 processors and a external optional Superdrive.

I don't think he will port the iPhone/iPad UI over to Mac's though.

So last chance this year of getting a Intel based Mac.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #6 of 248
Jobs is absolutely right. Especially about Flash. YouTube and Vimeo are already transitioning to HTML5.
post #7 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Jobs is absolutely right. Especially about Flash. YouTube and Vimeo are already transitioning to HTML5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

...So we see where he is going, and BlueRay disks are vulnerable to cracking, in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilogic View Post

The man is on point...

No kool-aid for me!

Steve Jobs is a genious but Apple cannot survive without Adobe, Google, or Blu-ray IMHO.
post #8 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I doubt we will ever see BlueRay DVD playback on the Mac.

The reason for this is Steve wants to reduce the mechanical and replaceable parts of computer so they are reduced down to a single simple logic board, assembled and pressed together by machines.

Less fuss, less trouble, less returns or repairs under warranty. If a device like a iPad fails, it's simply replaced and not repaired.

He's also not allowing third party software like Flash that he says is "bug prone" neither.

So we see where he is going, giving the movie studios their hardware lock again, BlueRay disks are vulnerable to hairline cracking, in my experience.

I think you missed the boat- Steve Jobs wants to you buy anything and everything from his iTunes store plantation from now on. He's trying to kill FLASH for that very reason in that it competes with his game sales on iTunes, Blu-ray competes with his low grade HD movies at iTunes, etc , etc. There is a method to his greed- say one thing, mean another.
post #9 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I doubt we will ever see BlueRay DVD playback on the Mac.

And I doubt we will ever see anyone be consistent with the technology's name. It's "Blu-ray Disc" Capital "B", no "e", hyphen, lowercase "ray" and the word "Disc". It has never been referred to as any kind of "DVD". Save yourself the trouble and use the short TLA BR-D.
I own lot's of Apple stuff, but see no need to thump my virtual chest about it.
Reply
I own lot's of Apple stuff, but see no need to thump my virtual chest about it.
Reply
post #10 of 248
granted I'm not a Photoshop user...but I shy away from all of Adobe's products just as I shy away from Microsoft's software. (And Google's for that matter-except search)

I used to have Adobe Elements and man oh man did it take a long to time to open. Now I just use Apple's software and if it can't do something Adobe can do....I just simply don't do it!

I use PDF Shrink and PDF pen for all my PDF documents. But most of the time Apple's Preview fits the bill.

From what I see/read of Flash. It does sound like it's old, buggy and not up to Apple's standards....
post #11 of 248
While it is always interesting to hear some insider leaks about commentary they heard during one of these town hall meetings, I wonder if Apple would be seeking to root out sources of such leaks? I mean, didn't this site report not too long ago about how draconian Apple was about stuff, and yet here we have supposedly first party accounts about internal communication by the CEO to the staff of Apple. It makes one wonder what entices people to violate company confidentiality, especially under the guise of anonymous (which means your name is not glorified by your leak). Is the relatively small attention you receive by doing this worht losing your job? Just musing.
post #12 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

I think you missed the boat- Steve Jobs wants to you buy anything and everything from his iTunes store plantation from now on. He's trying to kill FLASH for that very reason in that it competes with his game sales on iTunes, Blu-ray competes with his low grade HD movies at iTunes, etc , etc. There is a method to his greed- say one thing, mean another.

Are you saying that Apple is more concerned with profits than with making great technology for all of us?
post #13 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Now I just use Apple's software and if it can't do something Adobe can do....I just simply don't do it!

That's the spirit! You are perfect.
post #14 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

It makes one wonder what entices people to violate company confidentiality,

I have heard, but don't really know, that Apple treats many employees very badly.
post #15 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

So we see where he is going, giving the movie studios their hardware lock again, BlueRay disks are vulnerable to hairline cracking, in my experience.

Really? In my experience, I've found that Blu-ray discs seem to be more durable than standard DVD discs.
post #16 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

No kool-aid for me!

Steve Jobs is a genious but Apple cannot survive without Adobe, Google, or Blu-ray IMHO.

I think you're getting these relationships confused.

Apple is selling more Macs in a recession (record numbers.) All without Blu-ray drives.

Jobs' issue with Adobe is about Flash, not Photoshop and the rest of their bloatware.

There is nothing restricting the use of Google's mish-mash of internet services on the iPhone or any other Apple device. And if Apple ever comes up with their own Maps solution and it works well (why wouldn't it?) then there's still no problem.
post #17 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

That's the spirit! You are perfect.

Well I wouldn't go that far. Although, I do have "matinee idol looks!'
post #18 of 248
"Next iPhone coming is an A+ update."
I wonder if that means an Apple ARM chip or just an odd paraphrasing.

"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level."
I hope that finally means the removal of the optical drive from notebooks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Jobs is absolutely right. Especially about Flash. YouTube and Vimeo are already transitioning to HTML5.

Even with Flash 10.1 coming to mobile platforms sometime this year the ability to play videos will still be an issue. Taking all bets on how long before Hulu announces the transition to HTML5 and/or offers app for mobile apps stores.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #19 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

I think you missed the boat- Steve Jobs wants to you buy anything and everything from his iTunes store plantation from now on. He's trying to kill FLASH for that very reason in that it competes with his game sales on iTunes, Blu-ray competes with his low grade HD movies at iTunes, etc , etc. There is a method to his greed- say one thing, mean another.

Wow, TEKkie, man can you go off on a tangent. How exactly does Flash compete with App Store games? It doesn't - two completely different classes of games. Flash is completely available to Mac user on the computing systems (laptops and desktops), Blu-ray doesn't compete with with iTunes movies, as it is a very small part of the current media supply lines and the media companies are already looking ahead of Blu-ray technology to the next big thing. The whole driver for these "deeper content" technologies is to get you to re-purchase content you already have. Can you be any more spectacularly obtuse on these technologies?
post #20 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Are you saying that Apple is more concerned with profits than with making great technology for all of us?

No.But look at their gross margin at look at the history of the iPod- it certainly became a cash cow conduit for selling music, etc and at a fixed price which Apple now hypocritically bemoans that Amazon is doing presently with book pricing.
post #21 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I think you're getting these relationships confused.

Apple is selling more Macs in a recession (record numbers.) All without Blu-ray drives.

Jobs' issue with Adobe is about Flash, not Photoshop and the rest of their bloatware.

There is nothing restricting the use of Google's mish-mash of internet services on the iPhone or any other Apple device. And if Apple ever comes up with their own Maps solution and it works well (why wouldn't it?) then there's still no problem.

Best quote of the day...that is exactly how I would describe google's sw offerings right now, 'Mish-Mash!' As opposed to Apples offerings of tightly integrated sw and hardware. I take a video on my iPhone of my girlfriend's stupid, overfed, undersexed cat 'falling' out of a tree, post it on MobileMe and my AppleTV...in 3 minutes using iMovie...'Announce' to my daughter who is living in St. Maarten and my GF is watching it on my AppleTV inside 5 minutes....talk about ease of use and integration!

Ps. For iGenius: 'SW' is an abbreviation for 'software!'
post #22 of 248
I guess Apple may go down that road and hut leaks. But having read about all their secrecy when they really want it, my take would be that Steve actually counted on leaks here. There is no easy and safe way he can hunt down one or two leaks among hundreds of employees. It's also a good way to be able to say somewhere that you should not trust rumors. Unless you here it from me it's not true. But he can get a feel for the reactions though and if they run down his own alley - he can move along with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

While it is always interesting to hear some insider leaks about commentary they heard during one of these town hall meetings, I wonder if Apple would be seeking to root out sources of such leaks? I mean, didn't this site report not too long ago about how draconian Apple was about stuff, and yet here we have supposedly first party accounts about internal communication by the CEO to the staff of Apple. It makes one wonder what entices people to violate company confidentiality, especially under the guise of anonymous (which means your name is not glorified by your leak). Is the relatively small attention you receive by doing this worht losing your job? Just musing.
post #23 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I have heard, but don't really know, that Apple treats many employees very badly.

I have talked with many of the Apple folks at the local Apple Store and they seem to be really happy to be involved with Apple at that level - especially in a retail environment. I didn't see anything really bad in what was reported about how Apple responds to confidentiality compared to any other company that produce intellectual property. And I really wish people who don't have personal experience not chime in with "that's so wrong", or "they are infringing our freedoms" crap. I work for a Fortune 50 company, we all have to sign confidentiality agreements, have to reconfirm Employee Conduct guidelines on a yearly basis. All our outbound email are filtered and inbound data scrutinized. This is how business is done. If I violate these guidelines, I am subject to disciplinary actions up to and including job termination and even criminal charge if merited.
post #24 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The new Mac's he's talking about, are going to be based upon the iPad like design, thin and all sealed up with new A4 processors and a external optional Superdrive.

I don't think he will port the iPhone/iPad UI over to Mac's though.

So last chance this year of getting a Intel based Mac.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
Reply
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
Reply
post #25 of 248
Ideally, don't you want to avoid talking about the competition? Besides, going by actual sales, it doesn't sound like Google is serious competition, doubly so if you want any customer service if something goes wrong.

It seems a little unprofessional to make comments like that that might leak.

I don't remember this sort of thing leaking out of an employee "town hall" meeting before, so maybe this sort of thing happens often, just not reported.
post #26 of 248
Quote:
Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone that Android/Google won't be able to keep up with.

Without multitasking (especially on the iPad) it's difficult to imagine...
Quote:
Next iPhone coming is an A+ update.

Really? Front facing camera + iChat?

Let's be honest, even though the iPhone was a game changer (and it changed my life for sure) and even though the iPad will also be ubber-successful, there are a few basic things that Apple will have to introduce to keep up with the competition .

Just as we screamed for copy-paste before iPhone OS 3.0, we now want multitasking with easy switching between applications (I could live with a nice multi-touch swipe), iChat with front facing camera and yeah, 5 MP camera with LED flash.

Now, I have this theory that Apple always have a 5 years plan, just like the old communist party in the now defunct USSR: they come up with a fantastic product and introduce it bit by bit to the market. At first, the product seems lacking stuff, but really it's all there, in the lab or in the code, waiting to be updated or upgraded slowly!

I for one will buy the iPad - for my mum - but I'll certainly wait for V2 or even V3 before I get one for me...

But it's ok: in June, the new iPhone, and next year the new iPad
post #27 of 248
I for one welcome our iPad overlords...
post #28 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

Really? In my experience, I've found that Blu-ray discs seem to be more durable than standard DVD discs.

For me, maybe 1 in 50 Netflixed Blu-Rays arrive cracked. Never had one not play due to scratching though, so that part works well, but I rarely get a DVD that doesn't play well because of scratches.
post #29 of 248
It's one thing to have rumors about what technologies the company is working on; what new product will be released; etc.
When it gets to the point of Hey, there's a rumor that Steve Jobs said in a meeting that "Fred Shred sucks balls" or how about "Good morning fellow Apple employees, I am going to die next week."
AI should just stay out of the "...somebody said that somebody said that steve said..."
That stuff is not rumors. That's called gossip.
This board is not a board made-up of 13 year old little whiney gossips, and I think that I...
Oops, wait a minute,,,

Never mind.
post #30 of 248
I'm glad Google is competing against Apple. It makes Apple a better company.

Imagine how your Mac would be today if Microsoft didn't have most of the Market share. You think you would be able to run all the stuff you can run in a Mac today, including Windows? Do you think you could get a Mac anywhere near a competitive price?

Look, I love Macs and I love the iPhone, but I'm frustrated how Apple's tyrannical approach to everything has crippled my experience with their products.

Google gets it. Google knows people like Apple's products, but they're not too crazy about using Apple's network of choice or use only the applications Apple tells you to use, or not having an option over anything Apple does.

If more people embrace Android, Google is going to prove Apple they must relax some of their business choices. If people embrace Chrome OS, Apple is going to realize people want cheap devices (which have a camera, for @!#$ sake!) for browsing the Web, not necessarily XL iPod Touches.

I hope Google is right on this one. If they are, they can actually save Apple from themselves. I don't call that evil at all.
post #31 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Best quote of the day...that is exactly how I would describe google's sw offerings right now, 'Mish-Mash!' As opposed to Apples offerings of tightly integrated sw and hardware. I take a video on my iPhone of my girlfriend's stupid, overfed, undersexed cat 'falling' out of a tree, post it on MobileMe and my AppleTV...in 3 minutes using iMovie...'Announce' to my daughter who is living in St. Maarten and my GF is watching it on my AppleTV inside 5 minutes....talk about ease of use and integration!

I can't deny the convenience integration provides. At least Apple hasn't lost its identity while increasing marketshare, hopefully Steve Jobs' successors will continue his work, and not "sell out."
post #32 of 248
I for one will buy the iPad - for my mum - but I'll certainly wait for V2 or even V3 before I get one for me...

Good plan FullGaz...my plan is to get one as soon as it is available (use it have fun with it) and when the new version comes out give the 'old' one to my daughter. Win/win....kind of our own family earth-friendly recycling program.
post #33 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

"Next iPhone coming is an A+ update."
I wonder if that means an Apple ARM chip or just an odd paraphrasing.

"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level."
I hope that finally means the removal of the optical drive from notebooks.

Could take it to the next level or if the vast majority of Macs being Macbooks sold to general users could result in Mac sales free falling when they learn they learn they can't go out and by software or watch a DVD without an external device. SD cards are too expensive for software distribution and the way Apple has managed the iPhone App store, I'm not so sure I want a Mac version. Move away from optical media before the market is ready and it could be very much to Apple's peril.
post #34 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by macusersince1993 View Post

I'm glad Google is competing against Apple. It makes Apple a better company.

Imagine how your Mac would be today if Microsoft didn't have most of the Market share. You think you would be able to run all the stuff you can run in a Mac today, including Windows? Do you think you could get a Mac anywhere near a competitive price?

Look, I love Macs and I love the iPhone, but I'm frustrated how Apple's tyrannical approach to everything has crippled my experience with their products.

Google gets it. Google knows people like Apple's products, but they're not too crazy about using Apple's network of choice or use only the applications Apple tells you to use, or not having an option over anything Apple does.

If more people embrace Android, Google is going to prove Apple they must relax some of their business choices. If people embrace Chrome OS, Apple is going to realize people want cheap devices (which have a camera, for @!#$ sake!) for browsing the Web, not necessarily XL iPod Touches.

I hope Google is right on this one. If they are, they can actually save Apple from themselves. I don't call that evil at all.

Another kool-aid drinker. Just another flavor.
post #35 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

For me, maybe 1 in 50 Netflixed Blu-Rays arrive cracked. Never had one not play due to scratching though, so that part works well, but I rarely get a DVD that doesn't play well because of scratches.

For me, 1 in 50 DVDs show up damaged or cracked. I haven't received any damaged blu-rays yet though. Scratch-wise, everything seems to play just fine.
post #36 of 248
For god's sake, I just want them to rev the processor on the MBPs already. I've been waiting with increasing impatience since December, hammering away at my aging G4.

Noupdatesattheeventdontneedanipadmumblegrumble.
New MacBook Pros next Tuesday!
Reply
New MacBook Pros next Tuesday!
Reply
post #37 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

I think you missed the boat- Steve Jobs wants to you buy anything and everything from his iTunes store plantation from now on. He's trying to kill FLASH for that very reason in that it competes with his game sales on iTunes, Blu-ray competes with his low grade HD movies at iTunes, etc , etc. There is a method to his greed- say one thing, mean another.

Nonsense. YOU can source media from many, many sources - the SD card slot appearing on new models follows SJ's comments about the disc being dead, and you can fit much more, with faster access on an SD card.

A company wanting to make profit is not 'greed', it's how companies grow, and have a reason want to continue to grow. R&D expenses and profit. Yes profit - it's not a dirty word.

Blu-ray does not compete with his 'low grade' HD movies. It is an alternative, and no one is stopping you using it. Who wants to watch 1080 HD content on a 9.7" screen - that's just bull. Apple are not trying to "kill flash", they're ensuring that flakey software which causes hangs, crashes, causes products overheats and reduces battery life isn't allowed to run on their devices. It's SJ's company, and that's his right - don't like it, don't buy the product.

Stability, security and a consistent user experience. That's what Apple are trying to achieve.

I for one applaud it.
post #38 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

No kool-aid for me!

Steve Jobs is a genious but Apple cannot survive without Adobe, Google, or Blu-ray IMHO.

We are not talking about surviving without Adobe, just Flash. I don't think Apple wants to exclude Google, they just have to protect what their turf. Bluray on the other hand, is a dead duck. I know some people love it for good reasons, but it will never be main stream on computers. Specially not on Apple computers. An optical drive is clunky and occupies too much valuable space.
post #39 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

I think you missed the boat- Steve Jobs wants to you buy anything and everything from his iTunes store plantation from now on. He's trying to kill FLASH for that very reason in that it competes with his game sales on iTunes, Blu-ray competes with his low grade HD movies at iTunes, etc , etc. There is a method to his greed- say one thing, mean another.

Flash had its day, but it's time to move on. Sometimes Apple has led the way in ditching old technology to embrace new (remember people complained iMacs didn't have floppy drives?). If Flash is still around, the HTML5 debate is going to drag on forever and we will be using 1990s proprietary technology for the Web when we could have 2010s open source technology. A lot of companies, not just Apple and Google, are waiting for people to make up their minds with HTML5 to save the money they pay Adobe in royalties.
post #40 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Nonsense. YOU can source media from many, many sources - the SD card slot appearing on new models follows SJ's comments about the disc being dead, and you can fit much more, with faster access on an SD card.

A company wanting to make profit is not 'greed', it's how companies grow, and have a reason want to continue to grow. R&D expenses and profit. Yes profit - it's not a dirty word.

Blu-ray does not compete with his 'low grade' HD movies. It is an alternative, and no one is stopping you using it. Who wants to watch 1080 HD content on a 9.7" screen - that's just bull. Apple are not trying to "kill flash", they're ensuring that flakey software which causes hangs, crashes, causes products overheats and reduces battery life isn't allowed to run on their devices. It's SJ's company, and that's his right - don't like it, don't buy the product.

Stability, security and a consistent user experience. That's what Apple are trying to achieve.

I for one applaud it.

Perfect...well said and that is exactly apple's approach. Which I for one really appreciate.

Do you think by new macs this year he is referring to Apple Chips being inside and slowly changing from intel?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Steve Jobs disparages Google, Adobe at company meeting - reports