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Steve Jobs disparages Google, Adobe at company meeting - reports - Page 6

post #201 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Do antitrust ties go with antitrust suits?

For anyone who had any questions about why Apple should not and will not acquire Adobe, Steve's remarks about them should be Exhibit A.

This is the writing on the wall, I agree. But just think what Apple could do with Adobe if they DID own it. An Apple run Adobe would be an amazing company!
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post #202 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Adobe is a really sad company, cant believe they're going to just sit on flash as it is currently, its an old archaic technology that needs serious revamping.

Well, I agreed that Flash is crap and usually that crashes my Mac.

But Adobe is king when it comes to design apps. (Illustrator, Photoshop, AE, InDesign, etc)

Since I make a living using them, I hope they can get their stuff together and have a good relationship with Apple. It would be devastating to the creative industries if they stop supporting the Mac.
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post #203 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

This is the writing on the wall, I agree. But just think what Apple could do with Adobe if they DID own it. An Apple run Adobe would be an amazing company!

I think they'd be a gigantic boat anchor. Large mergers inevitably end up also being mergers of corporate cultures. Adobe's culture is trampling up and down the same well-beaten path. Apple could not easily change that just by owning them, not in many years of trying. The long term danger is Adobe's culture infecting Apple's culture as much as the other way around.
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post #204 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I read this article which makes some interesting points about the 4:3 choice for iPad


www.computerworld.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Well that's kind of awful. They make it sound like 1024x768 is some kind of Mac thing. They completely fail to mention that it's the XGA standard and has been around for 20 years or so.

What? Do you mean the Computer World article that has this line?

Quote:
Those who have used computers for a while will recognize the old "golden mean" of pixel resolution in the iPad's 1024x768 display.

First line of second paragraph. That line seems to contradict your impression, they acknowledge it almost right away.

I am a bit surprised with 4:3 though, it would seem that 1.5:1 would be a better compromise, it's not too far from standard paper (~1.3:1), not too far from standard wide screen video (1.77:1), and right on for most dSLR cameras (1.5:1), and there are still plenty of good old TV shows in 4:3 (1.33:1) that are worth watching. I know some people would still complain if it's any less than 16:9, but 16:9 would also generally be way too narrow to work with in portrait mode.
post #205 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Jobs is absolutely right. Especially about Flash. YouTube and Vimeo are already transitioning to HTML5.

Yeah everyone is transitioning to HTML 5...except for team Internet Explorer, who enjoys more than half of web browser market share. Good or bad, we'll be watching Flash video for a long time, and Apple should allow us the ability to see flash - at least for video content - on their devices. It's still the most effective way to publish video on the web.
post #206 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What? Do you mean the Computer World article that has this line?

The point is, with all of the talk about the "golden mean" and the display resolution of early iMacs they neglect to mention the simple fact that this is the XGA standard. It's not just alphabet soup. If you buy a projector, it's probably going to be XGA. Some have higher resolutions, but still mostly at the same ratio. VGA is also the same h/w ratio. For better or worse, Apple has adhered to a common standard with the iPad, not done something weird just to be different, like they do so often. I think they over-analyzed and missed the most basic fact.
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post #207 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

No.But look at their gross margin at look at the history of the iPod- it certainly became a cash cow conduit for selling music, etc and at a fixed price which Apple now hypocritically bemoans that Amazon is doing presently with book pricing.

Wrong. iPods have generated a lot of revenue in hardware sales, but iTunes music sales haven't generated much for either Apple or content owners.

Cute little anti-Apple schtick you've got, but unfortunately completely out of touch with music retail realities. Your handle seems to self imply a better grasp of such matters.

iTunes music sales hardly even dent retail music sales before MP3s appeared and launched the whole piracy thing. Right now nobody is selling a lot of music, the number of acts producing sales and doing live tours has declined to less than 20% of what it was a decade ago, and as a result the amount of music being made has declined as well.

The only label making money right now is Rhino with older catalogs, which means the only acts making money are those with endorsement deals (very few), older catalog owners for stuff like Devo and Led Zeppelin, and a handful of big bands. iTunes (when DRM was still in place) was actually starting to generate revenue for smaller and mid sized acts & labels, but again thanks to piracy this is disappearing too. It's easy to whine about these "big corporations" and the RIAA, but all of this knowledge is 3rd hand tales that are wildly inaccurate and simplistic.

Apple has never made much money from iTunes music sales, nobody really has. Thanks to those that whine about DRM, there's less quality music in every genre, a homogenizing of styles, and no good ecosystem for developing music entertainment.

Enjoy Lady Gaga, "stud".
post #208 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

this is the XGA standard.

That's pretty 20th century. Why did Apple choose an outmoded standard?
post #209 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Wrong. the number of acts producing sales and doing live tours has declined to less than 20% of what it was a decade ago,


Do you have a cite for this? An 80% decline in acts doing live tours over ten years?
post #210 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

Really? In my experience, I've found that Blu-ray discs seem to be more durable than standard DVD discs.

From my PS3 experience with both games and movies, I tend to agree with you.

I'm yet to see scratched BR disk, be it a movie rental or pre-owned game. I was always reluctant to do 2nd hand DVDs, but I'm buying 2nd hand PS3 games (hard to find 1st generation titles) with confidence, after purchasing 7 of them (and seeing much more) looking brand new.
post #211 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The point is, with all of the talk about the "golden mean" and the display resolution of early iMacs they neglect to mention the simple fact that this is the XGA standard. It's not just alphabet soup. If you buy a projector, it's probably going to be XGA. Some have higher resolutions, but still mostly at the same ratio. VGA is also the same h/w ratio. For better or worse, Apple has adhered to a common standard with the iPad, not done something weird just to be different, like they do so often. I think they over-analyzed and missed the most basic fact.

I suppose you're right on that. But it's not hard to buy a wide screen projector. If you buy a budget one or one made for business, yes, it's probably going to be 4:3. I just found a 1080p projector for $999 that seemed pretty good, I didn't look too hard at it yet.
post #212 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I suppose you're right on that. But it's not hard to buy a wide screen projector. If you buy a budget one or one made for business, yes, it's probably going to be 4:3. I just found a 1080p projector for $999 that seemed pretty good, I didn't look too hard at it yet.

Possibly, but I've yet to see an HD projector used in any presentation I've ever watched. Most people are plugging them into their laptops.
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post #213 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What? Do you mean the Computer World article that has this line?

First line of second paragraph. That line seems to contradict your impression, they acknowledge it almost right away.

Did you read the article? I thought they covered it pretty well. Based on how it felt in two hands in portrait and landscape, the aspect of many books, magazines, and newspapers, etc.

Sure, wide screen movies look a little odd but overall their design choices seem to be well thought out with some compromises.

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post #214 of 248
Apple makes products for consumer, not for geeks.
Consumer needs Flash and Bul-Ray.
They don't care about trends to HTML5.
post #215 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Did you read the article? I thought they covered it pretty well. Based on how it felt in two hands in portrait and landscape, the aspect of many books, magazines, and newspapers, etc.

Sure, wide screen movies look a little odd but overall their design choices seem to be well thought out with some compromises.

I did read the article, but you should understand that I as responding to specific comments made about said article. It's easy to rationalize and hypothesize why things are the way they are, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or they can divine the precise reason.

I also wasn't suggesting a 16:9 display, I went through the list of the range of media the device was used for and suggested that it shouldn't go hard one end or the other. But XGA probably helps keep the cost down.
post #216 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Possibly, but I've yet to see an HD projector used in any presentation I've ever watched. Most people are plugging them into their laptops.

Certainly, that falls under the business use I mentioned, though I think there is some benefit for wider as the limiting factor in most rooms is often the height, especially if you factor in a table. My own video projector is widescreen, 1080p.
post #217 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Very good post!

THX. My follow up is below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

And yet the lack of widescreen looked pretty silly when Steve was demoing video playback. 4:3 died years ago, it's a strange move to bring it back from the dead. The ebooks angle isn't something Apple are pushing much and rightly so, as iBooks is US only and nobody in their right mind would want to read for long periods on a super bright LCD screen.

Sorry, but your dock connector argument makes no sense. It's ridulous to have to buy an adaptor just to plug a camera or flash drive in. It's just a pointless upsell from Apple so they can save a few pennies on a USB connector, nothing more.

The iPhone OS multi-tasks with Apple apps a little, but not fully. I can't, for example, fire off a text message while browsing, I still have to quit Safari. What really annoys me is when I'm playing an iPhone game and a message, be it a text, an IM, or an email comes in, and the only way to view or reply to the message is to quit the game. Not exactly a great experience. Do you have inside info that multi-tasking for all apps is coming? As I've never seen it confirmed anywhere.

NEMESIS!

I get it, I get it. You're a spoiled individual, born of the microwave generation, who can't wait for anything to evolve. This is how it's done my friend. If you can find a corporation that doesn't like to shift costs on their products or incrementally release updates so you buy a new product, please point it out. I believe it would be a novel gesture. but regretfully this is not an egalitarian, alrtuistic world. We are obligated to make profits in the corporate world which almost all of us are a part of.

The screen represents a very usable form factor. Multi-tasking is on its way and ports are quickly becoming a thing of the past especially for $500 mobil devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Nah, he just stole it from one of many variations doing the rounds.

Interesting from a historical perspective this example dates from the Nocopypastus, Nonmmsian, Lackavideo era predating the current Nomultitaskian and Lackaflashian era.
[/IMG]

Witty timeline. Kotatsu needs to reference the evolution of the iphone and realise everything he complains about is slowly reaching market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

Apple products cost money, people don't have infinite money, staying with a Powerbook G4 is smart until i5 Macbook Pros come out, because it drops all the prices on new and used Core 2 Duos MBPs.

UGH, Yeah I know computers cost money. Do whatever you want, but there is little gained by waiting. It would only provide a marginal rate of return on your investment over upgrading to an intel chip. We're not going through the PPC to Intel switch at this point, so upgrade and gain compatibility now. The performance increase is far overshadowed by gaining compatibility with the latest software. Your biggest increase to productivity would be due to the new software and not in the case of an core2duo VS an i5 chip. I for one am a big fan of last years model for someone looking for a real value. Especially someone who's upgrading from a PPC chip. "Last years model" also makes a great "stopgap" computer for in between releases. Besides do you really want the first i5 to be used in an Apple Laptop?
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post #218 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Certainly, that falls under the business use I mentioned, though I think there is some benefit for wider as the limiting factor in most rooms is often the height, especially if you factor in a table. My own video projector is widescreen, 1080p.

Maybe... So when are they going to start making 16:9 screens? All the screens I've seen outside of movie theaters are virtually square.
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post #219 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Wrong. iPods have generated a lot of revenue in hardware sales, but iTunes music sales haven't generated much for either Apple or content owners.

Cute little anti-Apple schtick you've got, but unfortunately completely out of touch with music retail realities. Your handle seems to self imply a better grasp of such matters.

iTunes music sales hardly even dent retail music sales before MP3s appeared and launched the whole piracy thing. Right now nobody is selling a lot of music, the number of acts producing sales and doing live tours has declined to less than 20% of what it was a decade ago, and as a result the amount of music being made has declined as well.

The only label making money right now is Rhino with older catalogs, which means the only acts making money are those with endorsement deals (very few), older catalog owners for stuff like Devo and Led Zeppelin, and a handful of big bands. iTunes (when DRM was still in place) was actually starting to generate revenue for smaller and mid sized acts & labels, but again thanks to piracy this is disappearing too. It's easy to whine about these "big corporations" and the RIAA, but all of this knowledge is 3rd hand tales that are wildly inaccurate and simplistic.

Apple has never made much money from iTunes music sales, nobody really has. Thanks to those that whine about DRM, there's less quality music in every genre, a homogenizing of styles, and no good ecosystem for developing music entertainment.

Enjoy Lady Gaga, "stud".

Right Apple makes NO money off of iTunes and therefor refuses to raise the price of music for that very reason - WRONG.
Enjoy Glambert, "hose".
post #220 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I think you're getting these relationships confused.

Apple is selling more Macs in a recession (record numbers.) All without Blu-ray drives.

And you are positive they would not sell a few more with BR support?
post #221 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

I'm not sure why it is that you're getting so many scratched and unreadable discs. Believe me, though, that I haven't had a bad disc in months. Maybe it's a disgruntled postal worker in your area who likes to beat up Netflix discs for fun. But seriously though, what happens when you get new releases? Are they really beat up too? Some of the Blu-rays I get look brand-new and all play just fine. How close is your local Netflix distribution hub? Mine is about 50 miles from my house. Also, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of DVD player(s) are you trying to play these discs on?

The distance to a hub is about the same and yes, I DO have a VERY disgruntled postal worker to deal with. Seriously! Mostly I just try to stay the heck out of his way whenever he is around.

I can also say that very recent releases often show up in better shape, but not always.

I have a Sony DVD player, which will shortly morph into a Panasonic BD60 or better. The odd thing is that I can (and have) played some of the "rougher" DVD's through my MBP and they play just fine. Still bothers me though, how badly beat up the majority of these discs are when received. I have only had two cracked discs in the whole time I have used their service, but lots and lots of really scratched discs. I wonder if folks on the Netflix Blu-ray plan are receiving nicer copies?

Bottom line is that I guess people treat these rental discs a lot differently than they would if they owned them. Rather sad, but it goes with the times.
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post #222 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

And you are positive they would not sell a few more with BR support?

That is a strawman argument. Selling a few more units doesn't equate to a higher profit in the short term or constructive business plan for the future. We could say that Mac Pros should come in a rainbow of colours because they'd likely sell a few more, but that doesn't seem like a good move to me.
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post #223 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sure, wide screen movies look a little odd but overall their design choices seem to be well thought out with some compromises.

Movies would be great on a tablet of the right proportions. And internet too - with a device that could access the whole 'web.

Apple's choice of compromises kind of kill what I want a tablet for. I can see that for other people, they might be the right ones.
post #224 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I for one will buy the iPad - for my mum - but I'll certainly wait for V2 or even V3 before I get one for me...

Good plan FullGaz...my plan is to get one as soon as it is available (use it have fun with it) and when the new version comes out give the 'old' one to my daughter. Win/win....kind of our own family earth-friendly recycling program.

Heh. Considering how kids need webcams more than grown-ups (we are apparently not cool enough to enjoy video chitchats with our mates), I can see you keeping iPad mark I and giving your daughter iPad mark II
post #225 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Maybe... So when are they going to start making 16:9 screens? All the screens I've seen outside of movie theaters are virtually square.

I don't profess to be up to speed on a lot of screen ratios, but why oh why can't movies shot in 2.40:1 be converted to 16:9? It seems less than elegant to have a great plasma display and a former high end DVD player (soon to become Blu-ray) while watching a great movie, such as Master and Commander, yet having nearly 1/2 of the screen as a blank band on the top and bottom. Really annoying.

Is the only other choice to buy the 4:3 version, if available? I just do not understand the logic in preserving the so-called clarity of the original movie, shot and made for the big screen, when most folks are now watching said movie anywhere EXCEPT a movie theatre.

I suppose it comes down to preferences, but I would love to hear of any work arounds out there.
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post #226 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Maybe... So when are they going to start making 16:9 screens? All the screens I've seen outside of movie theaters are virtually square.

Huh? WTF?

Never been to Best Buy? Or MALL*WART? Or anybody's home?
post #227 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"They don't do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon."

Doesn't El Jobs mean Cocoa?
post #228 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Heh. Considering how kids need webcams more than grown-ups (we are apparently not cool enough to enjoy video chitchats with our mates), I can see you keeping iPad mark I and giving your daughter iPad mark II

Yep! You're right there....I'm using a 4 year old macbook made out of 'plastic' and I just bought her the upgraded version of the MacBookPro for Med school! What gives?

I told her the heaviest thing in my backpack was the MacBook I'm lugging around and she said the lightest thing in her backpack was the macbookpro and she was 'skipping' to class!

Damn, what gives!
post #229 of 248
In a way Adobe did abandon Apple.

Back when Steve Jobs was working to save Apple from the edge of the abyss. He asked Adobe to help with developing consumer video editing software, Adobe turned down the offer.

That forced Apple to purchase Final Cut Pro from Macromedia. We all know how that worked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post

Apple should remember that Adobe basically saved Apple a number of years back. If Adobe would have abandoned the MacOS during the dark days of Apple, we would all be using Windows (or some Linux for many of us) today.

>>Shivers<<
post #230 of 248
I think he meant Adobe was slow to move from Carbon to Cocoa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcassara View Post

Doesn't El Jobs mean Cocoa?
post #231 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

As for Blu-Ray, it's a format owned and licensed by Sony, meaning more licensing cost for Apple that sure as hell would be passed on to the customer, as well as an additional mechanical faliure that I agree with Steve in wanting to eliminate.

Wow, there are still people around that think Sony owns Blu-ray, Blu-ray is owned by the Blu-ray Disc Association, to which Apple is on their board. Also, Apple has their hand out as a patent holder of parts of H.264, which Blu-ray uses, so Apple will get some of that money back again.
post #232 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by macusersince1993 View Post

Flash had its day, but it's time to move on. Sometimes Apple has led the way in ditching old technology to embrace new (remember people complained iMacs didn't have floppy drives?). If Flash is still around, the HTML5 debate is going to drag on forever and we will be using 1990s proprietary technology for the Web when we could have 2010s open source technology. A lot of companies, not just Apple and Google, are waiting for people to make up their minds with HTML5 to save the money they pay Adobe in royalties.

It's not about flash and buggy nor battery. It's about iTunes. Do you think Apple will truly offer a lightweight portable device that streams TV shows on the iPhone or ipad when they can force people to purchase it. By force I mean in a sense there is no other way.
I truy hoe thisc at comes but Apple would be shooting themselves in the foot with regard to TV. But if it's possible, then let's see it. Then add support for open codecs such as Xvid.
Godspeed All!!!
post #233 of 248
So tell me which Flash based sites stream Xvid or other DivX based codecs.

Flash uses an flv wrapper it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with converting DivX files to a format that plays on iPhone OS then transferring the files from a computer.

You need never go anywhere near the iTunes store if you don't want to or buy a single thing.

Any media file on a computer can be converted and synced using iTunes software apart from DRM protected files like BluRay.

It's a separate issue it has nothing whatsoever to do with Adobe Flash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

It's not about flash and buggy nor battery. It's about iTunes. Do you think Apple will truly offer a lightweight portable device that streams TV shows on the iPhone or ipad when they can force people to purchase it. By force I mean in a sense there is no other way.
I truy hoe thisc at comes but Apple would be shooting themselves in the foot with regard to TV. But if it's possible, then let's see it. Then add support for open codecs such as Xvid.
Godspeed All!!!
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post #234 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

No kool-aid for me!

Steve Jobs is a genious but Apple cannot survive without Adobe, Google, or Blu-ray IMHO.

Definitely don't need Blu-Ray. Adobe is becoming less of a need and Google they need.
post #235 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

In a way Adobe did abandon Apple.


"In a way", eh?
post #236 of 248
My previous statement was speculation, but it is now supported here on AI:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...e_3gs_gpu.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberben View Post

I did not think that Apple had any plans to make their own GPU, I would be interested in seeing your information for this if you would be so kind.
post #237 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

But isn't that exactly how Apple stores music on the iPod?

Yes and no. They are put in specific folders pertaining to your music collection, not just one folder for everything. Yet they are given "tags" which makes it incredibly easy to locate them. Otherwise you would have a problem playing your music I would suspect. If you take your ipod and put those same files back onto your mac, insert them into itunes, all the names, and album data will be organized (in fact you can use "Senuti and take files off as you choose without having to use iTunes). Now you can find whatever album/artist/song you want and drag it to a flash drive directly from itunes if you'd like. I'm sure it would be just that easy on an iPad to transfer whatever data you'd like. As in, select "folder/album/file/document" to transfer, and select location to transfer to. For instance I create a beat on Beatmaker. Within the App I could select to "export" I would then select export to network. My shared folder would pop up and I would export to that. Simple as cake.
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post #238 of 248
Can the iPad Multi-Task?

I would love to know be fore I buy it this March.
post #239 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

It's not about flash and buggy nor battery. It's about iTunes. Do you think Apple will truly offer a lightweight portable device that streams TV shows on the iPhone or ipad when they can force people to purchase it. By force I mean in a sense there is no other way.
I truy hoe thisc at comes but Apple would be shooting themselves in the foot with regard to TV. But if it's possible, then let's see it. Then add support for open codecs such as Xvid.
Godspeed All!!!

Yeah a colleague and I were talking about this the other day. It may be about all of these things, but you're right. It probably has a LOT to do with iTunes movies and tv shows. If I could use hulu or netflix on it I wouldn't have to buy movies and tv shows from iTunes.

Half of what I do on the web at home is watch hulu and netflix streaming. The iPad is a cool device, but I have no need for it if it can't use those sites. Hulu and Netflix don't seem to be racing to convert all their stuff to h.264, so it looks like no flash video is a deal-breaker for me. I can't put a DVD in there, so what does that leave to watch? iTunes and YouTube...no thanks for 500 bucks + $2 an episode.

Not supporting Flash to protect the iTunes distribution model may be it.
post #240 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellSakay View Post

Can the iPad Multi-Task?

I would love to know be fore I buy it this March.

Multitasking wasn't shown in any of the demos i've seen, so I'm assuming that it cannot. Like the iPhone, though you can probably jailbreak it and get it to multi-task.
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