Steve Jobs disparages Google, Adobe at company meeting - reports - Page 2

They are, but they still have a short shelf life and are locked down with copy-protection and not exactly portable once you have a large collection. I'd much rather have my HD content on external hard drive or on an SD card.

I have a couple of dozen Blu-ray movies, I have no intention of looking at them on a screen less than 32", there's no point. Why would anyone want Blu-Ray playback on a laptop computer, the iPad or any desktop with a screen of less than 24"?

As far as blu-ray storage/back-up is concerned, the average prices for recordable media (never mind RW) is £10 - £15 per disc in the UK. Why on earth would I do this, with 1 terabyte external hard drives available for £80 - £100. I've yet to do it, but I'm pretty sure it will take longer to burn a 5GB backup to a blu-ray disc than to drag 5GB of data over to an external HD.

It's amazing how people latch on to the few 'weaknesses' they can find (blu-ray, flash, front facing camera on a consumer media consumption device) and constantly repeat these complaints about 'omissions' and 'faults'. The majority of users don't need blu-ray on their home computers. For those that do, get an external drive and toast - no one is stopping you from having blu-ray, it's just not a standard feature because it's not what the majority (or even a significant minority) want. All it would do is push up prices at a time when people criticise apple's prices for being too high.

I can't wait for Apple to lead the way and remove optical drives from their line up, the uproar will be exactly as the loss of the floppy drive or the ADB/SCSI/Serial ports. Then in a few years, you won't even think about them. Fragile, limited useful life and bulky to store. An SD card will hold so much more data than a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray disc, with faster access times and less draw on battery, cost less to produce and be easy to carry around.

Bring on the future.

Agreed, maybe we just need one optical drive per house hold....on an AppleTV or one inside TimeCapsule....and no more in desktops or laptops (or in landfills for that matter!).

Or maybe just one portable optical drive like the MBA's.....I hardly ever put a DVD/CD in my MacBook anymore or even in my car for that matter. I would rather have thinner quieter, lighter machines and less expensive machines without optical drives.

Do antitrust ties go with antitrust suits?

For anyone who had any questions about why Apple should not and will not acquire Adobe, Steve's remarks about them should be Exhibit A.

Most software that I get these days is downloaded, without an app store. I still regularly use DVD for movies though.

I have no idea how this comment relates to the ones you replied to.



Before it's tome, no. When it's time, yes. This isn't the 1990s. People are well connected to the internet and to networks in their home. Installing software via CD/DVD or watching/listening to music from a disc isn't that common in personal computers these. Is it done, sure, but Apple doesn't make decisions on what some may still be doing. They have several other agendas that are helping to push this change. It will happen and those that think it won't are just as wrong as the ones that thought you can't remove the floppydrive, serial and parallel ports from computers.

Why would they promote open standards and build the browser with leading HTML5 support, if that's the plan? Makes no sense. Apple even allows the software of competing shops and music services in the App Store...

He is trying to kill Flash, because Adobe is not giving Mac users a good product. They ignored Cocoa for a decade, now they can't even provide 64-bit apps, Flash crashes and eats resources like a 3D renderer, just for the trivial task of playing a movie... They want the revenues, but do not want to invest any work. Serves them right.

BTW, maybe read the blog of the Fennec (Mozilla browser used on Nokia's N900) developers. Guess what they have just done? Right. They disabled support for the Flash plug-in, as it was ruining the user experience to the degree of making the browser unusable.

Awesome! P!ss off your only important friends- Intel, Google, and Adobe.

Your ego will bring Apple to its knees and I'll be there to laugh.

Because competition is bad?

I hope that Apple remain in bed with Intel, it's good to see the Intel badge - it's reassuring for Windows switchers. I believe Apple should continue to excel at what they are good at - Intel do chips, Apple do the user experience - let's hope they keep it that way. I'm sure Apple can excel, but for now, let's withhold judgement until we see what the A4 processor delivers.

Integration of these companies, not a lot of competitors is the way forward. An Apple aligned with google and Intel can define the future of computing. An Apple with Google and Intel as enemies would be doomed.

I just wish Apple would buy Adobe, and sort the current mess.

There is no point in having a sycophantic relationship. Apple need to deliver a high standard of user experience, if Adobe don't do this, then a conversation needs to be had. Friendships are not all about the good times. Apple must constantly push the industry, suppliers, component manufacturers and think tanks. Going through business walking on eggshells will result in a lethargic attitude from the likes of Adobe, this can't happen - it's not good for anyone.

Adobe need to up their game, and google and apple need to work out common ground and work together, they should not be competitors.

I read a lot of the finger pointing between the two and it seems to be the same ol' same ol'. I don't see why Adobe and Apple can't work together to make things better. Flash is garbage on OS X, but it's not as if Apple is making it easy for Adobe. In fact, I can't remember the last time Flash crashed on my SL install since a removal and reinstall for it. No flash and no java runtime equals not being the whole internet experience as Apple claims. I don't miss Flash that much on my iPhone, but there are times when I am driving with co-workers trying to look at an online menu for some eatery and it doesn't work because it's in Flash. Other than that, no issues.

Bold statement, but it does sum up Apple's attitude lately. Unfortunately.

No flash, no blu ray, heck, no DVD drive before long. It sure seems Apple doesn't want you to have any choice (my favorite word) but to buy from iTunes.

When I bought my first PC, I had to use Windows because I had no choice. (No Apple stores or Macs at Best Buy.) I didn't like it and when a choice was made available to me, I took it and got a Mac. I didn't like a company that had the attitude of "You WILL love XP."

I don't think people like being treated in that manner. People outside of the AI forum anyway.

The replacements for floppy drives and serial and parallel ports represented clear and obvious benefits over their predecessors. I don't, however, see a replacement for optical drives that offers such a clear and obvious benefit just yet. Yes, I agree that it will happen, but optical drives still represent a cheap and effective means of delivering and storing data.

For someone who has a signature that says "Don't feed the trolls" you certainly are acting like one.


It's not my problem you can't spot where Apple is going based upon recent events, product announcements, processor changes etc.

Apple has switched from PPC to Intel processors in a emergency basically because the PPC was too hot for laptops. As a result the cloners reared their ugly heads, but Apple bought PA Semi to make their own processors and now with the iPad announcement that it has a Apple A4 processor, goes to show Apple doesn't need Intel processors any longer.

Apple is making thinner and lighter machines, as witnessed by the MacBook Air and the iPad, both don't have a Superdrive as a internal device. Apple has recently introduced SD slots on their computers, which is a thin interface. Apple likes thin.

Apple is also doing away with hard drives, using SSD instead, as witnessed by the MacBook Air, the Pad, the iPod Touch, the iPhones etc.

So given all these obvious signs, and especially Steve's coded message that big changes are coming to most of the Mac line, it's rather safe to conclude what is coming based upon current trends.

I dont think thats a testament to the quality of the disc more than it is mailing and shipping. I only buy Blu-ray dvds but i'll go out to the redbox and rent some on occasion and i have yet to have one not work from scratches/or be cracked.

Apple could easily support Blu-ray for their AppleTV instead of the paltry and lacking offering that it currently is. What annoys me to no end is their new upper end of devices like the new iMac both 21 & 27' models which support Blu-ray resolutions are missing this. I can see MBPs and the Mini missing this support, but damn throw us a bone.

Now you can say people dont watch movies on their computers but simply that isnt true. At 27" that is still a great size for movies in incredibly high resolution.

Adobe's products are still using code from the early 1990's. They had a chance to write their apps from scratch 10 years ago when OS X debuted and didn't do it. Photoshop and Illustrator are so bloated and complicated that you practically need a degree to learn how to use them.

But there's no alternative because Adobe has no competition. As long as that's the case, Adobe will continue to drag along.

As much as I hate Flash, it's not what makes Mac crash.

Good points!

Are you glad that Apple didn't build in an SD card reader into the iPad?

The problem with this event was more like talking behind someone else's back, not a direct conversation like you suggest. It needs to be said to Adobe, not preached to the Apple employee choir.

Well the event was to launch the iPad, nothing was ever mention about MBP updated. The iMac wasn't updated at this event either - what's your point?

The current MBP is less than a year old. You don't even know what the upgrade will bring, or when it will be, so instead of buying what is already a great product, you're hammering away on technology far inferior. Very odd mindset.

There will always be something new around the corner - that's the nature of any industry, any product. It's not a reason to not buy today, unless you know the update is coming tomorrow. You don't know this, so just buy the MBP already!

Well thank goodness you can go out and buy an external blue-ray or dvd drive and plug it into your Macs trusty little USB port.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand that. The fallacy about screen size is that it's not just about screen size, it's also about distance. HD video looks a lot better than SD on 15" notebook computer, because it's right in front of you at arm's length.

The same things was said 10 years ago when Apple dropped the floppy disk and adopted the CD/DVD. People said the industry wasn't ready. Or when Apple dropped the old multipin ports and adopted USB and Firewire.

Point being that

1. Flash is proprietary and Adobe won't let anyone look at the source code, let alone work in partnership with them to fix it. And it does need fixing.

2. There is nothing useful about creating a navigation system in flash - that's just poor web design. Navigation should be accessible, with out the need for closed, proprietary technology.

3. What lack of java in mac broswers? Java Runtime, ok - not sure what your point is here - but that's not about the end user experience. I develop in ajax/jquery/javascript/css/html all day and Safari and Firefox on the mac are the best standards supporters in this arena - the only thing which hangs/crashes is the only component which isn't standards compliant and open source/non-proprietary. Flash.

Agreed! but it would be nice to see a world without plastic CD's/DVD's and all the attendant, plastic and cardboard packaging...not to mention the toxic ink used or all the mideast oil being used to ship this stuff. If I can download a 4gig movie wirelessly I don't see why I can't download most software?

Ps. Imagine no plastic bags, too.

You can buy the drive, it is possible to write to it, but you can't play a disc without booting into Windows.

That's been about my experience as well, and what's bad is you can't see the cracks, so you send it back as being unplayable to get another, wind up with the same version with the same problem.

Must be going through the mail processing machines or something causing it.

It was a private meeting for employees - those happen you know. Companies do talk about their suppliers, competitors and affiliates during business meetings, and not always positively. This is business not a church group meeting.

Don't be so naive.

I'm pretty sure Adobe and Apple have their own dialogue going on behind closed doors. It's just a shame employees can't keep their mouths shut and harm their employer by leaking the content of (private) meetings such as these.

If apple employees are so disgruntled, I'm pretty sure they're free to leave.

We are well connected to the internet, but there are limitations on us from cable companies (i have no such limitations but i hear comcast is notorious for this) not everyone will be able to rely solely on this.

CD/DVDs provide a cheap way to distribute software and that is why it wont be going anywhere anytime soon. (im saying atleast next 5 years)

A little harsh...but still a good point!

I totally agree with you here. I was sorely disappointed to see the new iMac line not offer Blu-ray support. Unfortunately, we seem to be in the minority here and you won't find much support from many of the members here on AI.

very true, what do you expect? after all, they're after his ideas, so why wouldn't he hate them?

i would love it if people that complain about lack of webcam in the ipad, how would you position the tablet when you do video conferences?

Nah.

In the first place, Google can't stop providing it's services to Apple or to Mac users, that would be against the law, so they aren't even in the equation. In the second place, BluRay will probably be supported when (as Steve himself notes), enough people have enough BluRay discs that it becomes an issue.

Thirdly, Adobe has some core software on the Mac, but it's all shite. It's written poorly, it's coded using tools from decades ago, and it's buggy and slow. There are two guys who have already written an almost complete replacement for Photoshop for instance all by themselves called Pixelmator. Two guys! Steve is right that Adobe with all it's thousands of employees is just lazy in that they haven't found the time to do this themselves.

If Adobe refused to make Mac versions of their products, you can bet that Apple would have a viable contender in place for all of them inside of a few months.

Apple doesn't want to be the producers of all the software for the Mac, they know that it's a far healthier situation if companies like Adobe develop the programs themselves. Why else would they be so patient with the heap of dog doo-doo that is Adobe CS suite? If that doesn't work though, you can be sure that Apple has several alternative plans in place.

In short, neither of these two companies, nor the BluRay consortium, have any hold over Apple in the long term and none of them could "bring Apple down" or anything of the sort.

Devices that only had options to connect via serial or parallel ports when your Mac had a USB port, requiring you to buy new peripherals or getting lucky with an adapter was a not a clear benefit for those that didn't do their homework.

Floppy Drives were rewritable, multiple times, while most CD drives were read only or had a single write option that used up a very expensive disc.

Yet these changes still happened despite 100% of the population not yet being ready for it.

We know most people don't do backups and the most likely way to complete a backup by HDDs, so I can't imagine your comment "optical drives still [...] means of [...] storing data." is referring to that. If we're talking about movies, I have to wonder how many people really use their notebook computers for watching DVD movies over a DVD player in a home entertainment center.

Optical drives came about when the internet wasn't as ubiquitous, when HDD costs were high. THey simply aren't party of the path of the personal notebook computer. If you think you need a DVD player in your future notebook to install apps and watch movies then you're not going to be a Mac user.

great contribution to this thread, you are my hero

They also switched because the AIM alliance was basically dead and Motorola could careless for Apple. The Apple A4 processor is only 1 GHz. While perfect for an iPhone or an iPad, that is by no means fast enough for a consumer/pro laptop/desktop. Apple have also stated many times that they are very happy with their relationship to Intel. They (Apple) don't get preferred treatment on new processors first before the other guys (who have more hardware, and more sales) for nothing. Apple and Intel will be in bed together a long time.

Yep...I hope it's within 5 years! It seems like five years ago 'most' people were still using dial-up!

I think Blockbuster is getting a 'taste' of the changes that are coming! As is NetFlix. The App store has changed everything, including the optimum delivery method for music, movies, books, newspapers, magazines, games and software!

My guess would be no on the A4 or a variation of it for new Macs, unless Steve decides to expand their offerings to netboxes or does a notebook variation on the iPad. No software vendor is going to make another chip platform change with Apple, especially not after Steve's lack of appreciation with Adobe in this last rant of his. Apple is lucky Adobe didn't dump them and go Windows only after their last change to Intel processors. Adobe might be bastards when it comes to licensing and customer support (or lack thereof), but their software still powers the systems of pretty much every content developer, so they have the leverage for now until someone decides to take them on. And no, iPhoto and the rest of the iLife suite ain't going to cut it.

While there is a place for A4 chips in entertainment devices like the iPad, Apple would not be able to make enough chips to power their whole line-up - this is the reason they gave for switching to Intel chips from Motorola/IBM Power chips during the last changeover. My guess, for them even going with the A4 this time around in the iPad, is that they didn't expect they would have an enormous demand right off the bat and would be able to keep up with supply for the near future. However, add additional devices using the A4 and that situation could quickly change.

The A4 is just a shot across Intel's bow to gain purchasing and design leverage for future orders. However, I don't think Intel will take the bait because Apple needs Intel a lot more than Intel needs Apple. Steve probably doesn't like the performance/power/price ratio of the Intel Atom (neither do I) and knew he could do better this time around. However, at some point he'll need to get Intel to build-in the features he wants to take advantage of quantity manufacturing/pricing and get rid of the overhead it costs Apple to produce the A4.

I don't know if you created this but it's so not funny.

I don't mean that in the sense that i'm offended, but in the sense of actual criticism of the humour (or lack of it) involved. The list of items is irrelevant to both products, the date of the "stone" is off by about 39,900 years or so, and it's just inaccurate in any case. The stone can't "multi-task" at all, and the iPad actually can. To be funny it would have to be kind of ironically true in some sense, and this just isn't.