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Silver?, no no, we meant gold....

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
lol, turns out that the canadians are getting gold after all.

the french judge got suspended, and they're going to use the marks from the Chezc judge instead.

guess they got evidence that she was responsable for misconduct in her scoring.

the Chezc judge had the Canadians in first place as well, so now things will be tipped in their favor, and they get a gold after all.

i'll be darned.

[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
post #2 of 43
Wow. All in all this is a good thing because we all got a little disallusioned about the Olympics and maybe the press can now focus on actual olymic GAMES.
post #3 of 43
That's justice for the Canadian skaters, but the Ruskies don't deserve the gold too. I heard a Russian skating official on the radio saying it was all anti-Russian politics, including the cheering in the arena. Of course, that's what you'd expect her to say. I'm sure they scoff at us saying, no, it's about who skated the best in this competition. You don't get carry-over points for being good four years ago. Or, you shouldn't.
post #4 of 43
Great news. Too bad it should never have come to this. It's been too man years.
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post #5 of 43
Perhaps they don't deserve the Gold, but it's too late to take it away. it's easier to give than to take.
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post #6 of 43
I'm surprised. I didn't think the ISU had the guts to do it.

The Russians are all upset now that their gold will be viewed as tainted. The deputy prime minister is flying to Salt Lake to "support the team" ...
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post #7 of 43
I can't tell you how happy I am that the US had nothing to do with this.
post #8 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>I can't tell you how happy I am that the US had nothing to do with this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
i a m sure that we won't see you tomorrow on AI , have a good week Scott.

post #9 of 43
Why not? Where will I be?
post #10 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Why not? Where will I be?</strong><hr></blockquote>

don't you wait for somebody today ?, if my wife was coming back after some days i will not go to AI.
My wife won't be please if i was chating on internet after she comes back. Sure she have many thing to tell me.
That's all, nothing serious afterall.
post #11 of 43
Oh yea you never know. She may have lagged over to Turino time. That's 7 ahead of us. So when she flys in at ... well at 1 today that's 8 "her time" she may be in bed by 5 pm today?

[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
post #12 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Oh yea you never know. She may have lagged over to Turino time. That's 7 ahead of us. So when she flys in at ... well at 1 today that's 8 "her time" she may be in bed by 5 pm today?

[ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes it's always hard to come back to our time , it can take a few days to recover.

Turino remind me something :
Did she bring you back a Ferrari ?
post #13 of 43
Personally, this makes me sick.

Let us know for what reasons this judge was dismissed, why there was bias in the judgement. (I don't know what they have said)

If they haven't said then they definitly should show some proof. Otherwise it is an absolute shame and lowers the whole idea of competition.

The fact that we had clamouring for a revision is somehow sickening to me: and most sickening of all was the photo-op of the skaters on stage with that awfull mediocre band the Barenaked Buncha Idiots


Besides I stick to my guns: the Russians were better despite minor flaws: they had passion and sould the Canadians had Wonder Bread: perfect and tastless.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
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"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #14 of 43
I didn't watch either live but from the tape it's clear that the Russians made obvious errors that the Canadians did not.

MS NBC has a nice video loop where they show the two pairs side by side doing the same move. The Candians nailed it and the Russians botched it.
post #15 of 43
There is , there was and there will always problems with the judge for artitistic skating.

I have watch for many years international skating competitions , and there where always problems, contestations. This is really bad for the athlets.
Should the results be voted by public :certainly not the public is not professional, and is not a model of impartiality. Imagine the result of the vote in china for example ...
but something has to change , for the credibility of this sport.
post #16 of 43
Thread Starter 
[quote]Personally, this makes me sick.
Let us know for what reasons this judge was dismissed, why there was bias in the judgement. (I don't know what they have said)

If they haven't said then they definitly should show some proof. Otherwise it is an absolute shame and lowers the whole idea of competition.
<hr></blockquote>

did it ever occur to you that the judge might not want it made public. i'm not sure if you know how blackmail works, but usually it's along the lines of "do what i say or i'll tell people about such and such dark secret"

there's a good chance, IMO, that she had something that she wanted to keep private. she signed a statement to the fact that she was dishonest in the judging, what more do you want? let her private life stay that way.
post #17 of 43
[quote]Besides I stick to my guns: the Russians were better despite minor flaws: they had passion and sould the Canadians had Wonder Bread: perfect and tastless.<hr></blockquote>

Russians: traditional and stale
Canadians: energetic and entertaining

That's how I saw it, and that's how the audience saw it. Fer suuure. Not dooubt abooout it.

And the French officials have already stated that the french judge's did received pressure from the Russians to trade votes. This is all but an admittal of guilt. She was sent packing back to France. If she wasn't guilty, you'd think she'd be putting up a bigger fight.
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post #18 of 43
And the tainted judge has been suspended indefinitely. Her own organization is handing out the sanction.

France is my favorite European country, probably because I learned alot about it (which I have since forgotten 90% of) in school. I've also forgotten most of the language, which I was only beginning to learn. That said, France is also America's worst European ally. Sorry, but I think that can be documented, although I'm not going to be the one to do it here. It's not surprising that the Russians chose to make their bed with the French. I'd guess that it's the bureaucrats in and out of government that love to give the U.S. trouble. The citizens of France probably just roll their eyes at that crap.
post #19 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Gregg:
<strong>And the tainted judge has been suspended indefinitely. Her own organization is handing out the sanction.

France is my favorite European country, probably because I learned alot about it (which I have since forgotten 90% of) in school. I've also forgotten most of the language, which I was only beginning to learn. That said, France is also America's worst European ally. Sorry, but I think that can be documented, although I'm not going to be the one to do it here. It's not surprising that the Russians chose to make their bed with the French. I'd guess that it's the bureaucrats in and out of government that love to give the U.S. trouble. The citizens of France probably just roll their eyes at that crap.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Stop that assessment about France being the worst american allies of US. France love his independance for foreign policy, that's all, i have some time the impression when reading some threads of this forum , that beeing your allies just imply to follow you blindly wherever you go.

The case of the french judge has nothing to do with politics, the french are the leaders in Dance skating, so russians can make pressure on the french : if you don't help us you won't give you the gold medal for dance. That's all, there where always stories like that in skating unfortunately, one of our former dance Skater wrote a book on this subject " les patins de la colere" denounciating this ugly tractation of the judges between them.

This is a shame for me that a french judge is involving, but she is only the tree that hide the forrest. I am happy of the decision of the CIO, and i wish that sportivity is coming back in that sport.
post #20 of 43
Dude, you write the funniest damn posts...

post #21 of 43
poutine sucks.

And what is it with french food? I stopped eating pureed food when I was a kid. French cuisine = hospital food with fancy napkins.
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post #22 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>poutine sucks.

And what is it with french food? I stopped eating pureed food when I was a kid. French cuisine = hospital food with fancy napkins.</strong><hr></blockquote>

post #23 of 43
the Olympics have become a "Joke" intertwined in conspiracy, politics and terrorist threats...

------------------------------------
E PLURIBUS UNIX
post #24 of 43
Whenever I eat french fries with my fingers, my mom always says "If you go to France and eat like that, they will look at you like your a barbarian."

Crazy Swedish mom.
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post #25 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
<strong>The case of the french judge has nothing to do with politics, the french are the leaders in Dance skating, so russians can make pressure on the french : if you don't help us you won't give you the gold medal for dance. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, but let's say it was an Estonian pair that had a shot at gold in ice dancing, or, how about a pair from England? Do you think for one minute that such a bargain could be struck with either of those countries? I think not.

No, I do not think that to be a good ally of the U.S. France must always agree with us. But when the record is as abysmal as it is, what else can be said? Someone has to be at the bottom. I believe it is France. I would expect that if a statistical study was done, France would come out with the lowest percentage of any European country for support of U.S. policies. England would be first, but by no means at 100%. This is not to say that government performance is an accurate reflection of the sentiments of all, or even most, citizens. That is of course also true of U.S. citizens. Which means that France's habitual contrariness always has some support in the U.S.
post #26 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Gregg:
<strong>

Ah, but let's say it was an Estonian pair that had a shot at gold in ice dancing, or, how about a pair from England? Do you think for one minute that such a bargain could be struck with either of those countries? I think not.

.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Problems with judges in skating are lasting throuht decades. There is no ideology under it, just crappy alliances in order to have medals. Futhermore, Russia now, have no better relationships with France than USA. I use to watch ice skating competitions for the last two decades, and i have always ears that they where problems with the judges.

Let me point out that there where 5 judges that put the russians first, including China. No one ask why China put the russians first : just because every people find normal that china support russia like the old time. The fact that a french judge support russia was suspect.
The president of the French Federation of skating is suspect, if is implication is prooved he has to be fired.
post #27 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Gregg:
<strong>

No, I do not think that to be a good ally of the U.S. France must always agree with us. But when the record is as abysmal as it is, what else can be said? Someone has to be at the bottom. I believe it is France. I would expect that if a statistical study was done, France would come out with the lowest percentage of any European country for support of U.S. policies. England would be first, but by no means at 100%. This is not to say that government performance is an accurate reflection of the sentiments of all, or even most, citizens. That is of course also true of U.S. citizens. Which means that France's habitual contrariness always has some support in the U.S.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have not any statistical study for support of US policies(i do not know well, the feelings of the others states of EU) but it is possible that french is the last and england is the first, but we are still our allies , at the contrary as other countries like China , states of the middle and far east at the exception of Israel. (Saudi arabia need you, but they don't like you, nor they like europeans people).
post #28 of 43
Sigh, I am SO sick of this. Every time you turn on the TV up here its "Marie and Jean Paul (or whatever their names are)" didnt get gold but they deserve it &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;.

Ya, they deserved it, I agree, but WHO GIVES A **** ALREADY! We all know that they got jipped, stop telling us it. Go report on some towns being bombed in Afghanistan or something ( ).

Sorry, just had to get all that off of my chest.
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post #29 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by The Toolboi:
<strong>Sigh, I am SO sick of this. Every time you turn on the TV up here its "Marie and Jean Paul (or whatever their names are)" didnt get gold but they deserve it &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;, &lt;repeat&gt;.

Ya, they deserved it, I agree, but WHO GIVES A **** ALREADY! We all know that they got jipped, stop telling us it. Go report on some towns being bombed in Afghanistan or something ( ).

Sorry, just had to get all that off of my chest.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Canada rocks

post #30 of 43
OK OK I relent, the judging was unfair . . . . but we only know that because the judge couldn't live with the task she was pressured into doing . . . she broke down into tears and started crying . . . I like her!! and she's soooo beautifull!!!! I feel really sorry for her, she must feel very bad.

anyway, there were other perfect marks given to the Russians. Why aren't the spoiled wonder breads up inarms about this?!?!

And once again, the anti French have to use even this incident as an excuse for racism: its a vicious circle antiFrench leads to anti-US sentiments leads to etc etc.

Often times French pride is taken too far and becomes defensive against the percieved threat of a culturless mono-corporate octopi: I think that the fear is real and partly justified. but the vitriol is often over the top, and, because it is pridefull and defensive seems reactionary. . .however, I think that it is blown out of proportion in the States and everywhere, from David Letterman to these boards there is a tacit approval that it is OK to be racist against the French . . . it makes me sad.

[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #31 of 43
Really, give this up now. It's done and that's that. If you want a REAL Olympic story, read <a href="http://sports.excite.com/news/02172002/v5470.html" target="_blank">this</a> about Apolo Anton Ohno!

That is Olympic! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
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post #32 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by pfflam:
<strong>OK OK I relent, the judging was unfair . . . . but we only know that because the judge couldn't live with the task she was pressured into doing . . . she broke down into tears and started crying . . . I like her!! and she's soooo beautifull!!!! I feel really sorry for her, she must feel very bad.

anyway, there were other perfect marks given to the Russians. Why aren't the spoiled wonder breads up inarms about this?!?!

And once again, the anti French have to use even this incident as an excuse for racism: its a vicious circle antiFrench leads to anti-US sentiments leads to etc etc.

Often times French pride is taken too far and becomes defensive against the percieved threat of a culturless mono-corporate octopi: I think that the fear is real and partly justified. but the vitriol is often over the top, and, because it is pridefull and defensive seems reactionary. . .however, I think that it is blown out of proportion in the States and everywhere, from David Letterman to these boards there is a tacit approval that it is OK to be racist against the French . . . it makes me sad.

[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</strong><hr></blockquote>Thanks pfflam, but i enjoy dealing with many people here on AI despite some minor attacks (it's just a forum afterall), i expect that you don't find me aggressive, that's not my willing, i just wanted to say that the judgement was unfair, but this judgement as nothing to do with politics.

I say " bravo les canadiens" for you golden medal. I hope that you will have plenty more of it. I hope that the morality in sport will come back, no more cheating, no more doping , just goods thinks.

:cool:
post #33 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>Really, give this up now. It's done and that's that. If you want a REAL Olympic story, read <a href="http://sports.excite.com/news/02172002/v5470.html" target="_blank">this</a> about Apolo Anton Ohno!

That is Olympic! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
you are right i give up : que le sport continue (sport must go on).
post #34 of 43
The funniest thing about Bradbury is that the *exact* same thing happened to him the semi-final race just prior!

He was in last place at the last turn and Turcotte (Canadian) slipped in front of Li (China.) The Korean skater had already slipped earlier. That left Bradbury (Australia) and the Japanese skater to cross the finish line. After the judges conferred, the Japanese skater was DQ'd for whatever reason...I have no idea why though. From what I saw, he skated a clean race.

In the final, the Korean skater wrapped his arm around Ohno as he fell...God. I want to slap that kid's face.
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post #35 of 43
Thread Starter 
one thing about this whole mess i don't understand is why they didn't use the alternate judge's scores.

they have ten judges, but only nine of them normally count. however, the tenth is there on the off chance that a judge gets sick, can't make it, or their scores are thrown out 'cause they're suspect.

this is exactly that situation. a judge's scores are thrown out, so why not just use the tenth judge's scores to decide the matter?

(btw, the tenth judge had the Canadian pair in 1st place as well)

-alcimedes
post #36 of 43
powerdoc, really, my only point was that it is not surprising that Russian and French judges were conspriring together. Now, Russian and English would be surprising, or Chinese and Taiwanese, or American and Iranian, you get the picture....

It does have to do with politics in the sense that some countries simply will not deal with each other on any level. But France and Russia; that fits.
post #37 of 43
I fail to understand why it is 'fitting' ?!?!?

is it because before WW1 the two countries had a pact?

are your examples of bad pairs of countries supposed to make it 'fit'?

let me guess: its because France has a karge amount of "socialists" and Russia used to be Communist?!?!?!

. . . . ummm?!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #38 of 43
Have you read my other posts in this thread? The answer to your question will be found there.
post #39 of 43
Well . . . . I'm going to recant my recant and stick to my guns after all.


It turns out that the pressure on the (beautifull) French judge did NOT come from Russia after all.
It came from the CANNADIANS!!!!!!

and NBC must have also had a big say in things as far as other sports go... I'm sure of it... just too much money involved for there not to be pressures.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #40 of 43
[quote]Originally posted by pfflam:
<strong>It turns out that the pressure on the (beautifull) French judge did NOT come from Russia after all.
It came from the CANNADIANS!!!!!! [sic]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Riiiiiiight....

Reminds me of that character Martin Short used to play. He was supposed to be some sort of big company exec getting grilled by some Mike Wallace-type reporter. (While chain smoking and shaking uncontrollably) "Nervous? I'm not nervous! You're nervous! I'm not trying to hide anything. You look like you're trying to hide something!"

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
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