or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Eccentric but effective Steve Jobs pitches iPad to NYT execs
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Eccentric but effective Steve Jobs pitches iPad to NYT execs - Page 4

post #121 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I'm like you and I don't see a need for the iPad that can't be better served by a real computer like a Mac.

In fact I was rather upset that Apps didn't come to OS X in the form of DA's or Widgets. I knew something was up when that didn't occur, the love for Mac's was gone for a new device and something else entirely. Now we know what it is.

What Apple is doing with the iPad is making a content consumption device, not a computing type device like a Mac is.

What I'm afraid of is that people will opt for the consumption device more and more as features are added to the point that Mac's are discontinued due to lack of sales.

Software like SnapProZ, Little Snitch and Carbon Copy Cloner, which Apple detests, wouldn't get a presence on the new device.

Apple has already kicked off Google Voice for starters, which is available on many other phones.

And what was the name of that company that made widgets for OS X before Apple came out with their own and erased them off their platform? Yea, I forgot already because Apple has controlling mind share presence.

So I guess we are all going to forget Mac's and the open OS UI of OS X in favor of the closed App Store world.

What a frigging pity.

My sentiments expounded exactly. Closed systems aren't good in countries (N. Korea or Cuba) and certainly not in consumer products. Apple has always fashioned itself as creative, free spirited, etc but it is on closer examination one of the most dictatorial corporations (maybe that has led to its success, much like China being a closed regime and having an off the charts GDP growth)...It is an interesting topic and one that I am sure will be studied at universities in the future...
post #122 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

...I've always felt that classes in basic logic and analytical skills should added to the general curriculum in schools (starting around age 10 or so). Good to hear that you're making your kids aware.


The game of Chess is a good teacher, but one has to win once in a while as not to get discouraged and quit.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #123 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

concedes that you are wrong but still leave room for a passive-aggressive jab at apple....

now that's classy....

Guys like him hang out here for reasons that are difficult to comprehend.

Must be a low self-esteem thing (or, maybe, dropped on his head as a child, or whatever......)
post #124 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

is there a name for that..

I am sure there is, but it's not one that I know. I like that combo once in a while! Tried it out once, and liked it, that's all.

PS: Gin works well too!
post #125 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

My sentiments expounded exactly. Closed systems aren't good in countries (N. Korea or Cuba) and certainly not in consumer products. Apple has always fashioned itself as creative, free spirited, etc but it is on closer examination one of the most dictatorial corporations (maybe that has led to its success, much like China being a closed regime and having an off the charts GDP growth)...It is an interesting topic and one that I am sure will be studied at universities in the future...

and apple not suceeding in cuba and north korea has hurt them...how much?
post #126 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

and apple not suceeding in cuba and north korea has hurt them...how much?

Not my point at all. My point is that Closed Systems i.e. North Korea and Cuba do not work for the people living in them.
post #127 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

My sentiments expounded exactly. Closed systems aren't good in countries (N. Korea or Cuba) and certainly not in consumer products. Apple has always fashioned itself as creative, free spirited, etc but it is on closer examination one of the most dictatorial corporations (maybe that has led to its success, much like China being a closed regime and having an off the charts GDP growth)...It is an interesting topic and one that I am sure will be studied at universities in the future...


I think state sponsored capitalism has come about to due to the shift of the U.S. being the #1 market in the world. Before everyone wanted the U.S. to be open, as it was The Market, consuming over 90% of the worlds resources so it became lax. But now countries are competing intensely and want the same standard of living as the U.S. and West enjoy. So not only do they compete against each other, but for the worlds limited resources.

It was China that sucked up the worlds oil ahead of the Olympics that caused the $4 plus spike in gas prices last year as a demonstration of their new economic power, the socialist media blames the speculators as the sole cause of course.

China is kicking our collective asses and playing unfairly, not letting their currency float, rather pegging it to the dollars decline, so while we still try to play fair with open markets, as a result we are losing.

Apple is working with the China government directly, to sell wifi-less iPhones in China. WTF?

Google and 30 other US companies get hacked, by a State Government?

In order to compete with the state sponsored capitalism world of the present and future, the U.S. is going to have to throw off this socialist dream team in Congress and embrace a more opportunist set of lawmakers hell bent on pushing American companies and domestic job creation.

We are going to have to fight in the gutter just like China is doing, there is no other option but to wither away as another socialist failure in world history books.

American companies like Apple, need to carefully re-evaluate their position in economic hostile countries like China and hedge their bets, shift some of their manufacturing back state side, it's mostly all done by robots anyway. This process of continuation to rape the US and not returning jobs and economic vitality to one of their primary markets is just wrong.

Having worked with a lot of Chinese folks, (no disrespect intended) I know how they tend to be all take and no give, it came about because of their large numbers of course, the need for the individual to survive on few opportunities and resources that doesn't allow much for anyone else. Americans got to survive too! We are not all "fat cats" laying around in luxury, people are going hungry and homeless by the thousands everyday.

By Apple having worked with this type of society now it has obviously influenced and changed Apple from a open platform to a highly closed and controlling one, just like China.

The very fact that jail broken iPhone's out number the State authorized wifi less iPhones in China goes to show that that ideal doesn't work, that open is better, and if it's not open, it will be opened and they will steal apps by the millions too just to spite.

So it shall be with the iPad, but unfortunately we can't trust the sources of those who open the iPad, Apple needs to provide a way to open the iPad for people who want to take their chances, much like OS X is now. Let the lemmings and the ones needing hand holding use the App Store, that's not reflective of the total market and they usually learn fast that they realize a need a more open type platform.

Let the rest of us buy on the open market, use the Apps we want to use. Just place restrictions so that AT&T and the App store doesn't get abused. There are 3G USB sticks for laptops, so what's the big deal? You abuse the 3G you get kicked off.

The best of both is better, open and closed. But Apple I feel won't see it that way and therefore won't realize as much benefit as they could.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #128 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I think state sponsored capitalism has come about to due to the shift of the U.S. being the #1 market in the world. Before everyone wanted the U.S. to be open, as it was The Market, consuming over 90% of the worlds resources so it became lax. But now countries are competing intensely and want the same standard of living as the U.S. and West enjoy. So not only do they compete against each other, but for the worlds limited resources.

It was China that sucked up the worlds oil ahead of the Olympics that caused the $4 plus spike in gas prices last year as a demonstration of their new economic power, the socialist media blames the speculators as the sole cause of course.

China is kicking our collective asses and playing unfairly, not letting their currency float, rather pegging it to the dollars decline, so while we still try to play fair with open markets, as a result we are losing.

Apple is working with the China government directly, to sell wifi-less iPhones in China. WTF?

Google and 30 other US companies get hacked, by a State Government?

In order to compete with the state sponsored capitalism world of the present and future, the U.S. is going to have to throw off this socialist dream team in Congress and embrace a more opportunist set of lawmakers hell bent on pushing American companies and domestic job creation.

American companies like Apple, need to carefully re-evaluate their position in economic hostile countries like China and hedge their bets, shift some of their manufacturing back state side, it's mostly all done by robots anyway. This process of continuation to rape the US and not returning jobs and economic vitality is just wrong.

Having worked with a lot of Chinese folks, (no disrespect intended) I know how they tend to be all take and no give, it came about because of their large numbers of course, the need for the individual to survive on few opportunities and resources that doesn't allow much for anyone else.

By Apple having worked with this type of society now it has obviously influenced and changed Apple from a open platform to a highly closed and controlling one, just like China.

The very fact that jail broken iPhone's out number the State authorized wifi less iPhones in China goes to show that that ideal doesn't work, that open is better, and if it's not open, it will be opened and they will steal apps by the millions too just to spite.

So it shall be with the iPad, but unfortunately we can't trust the sources of those who open the iPad, Apple needs to provide a way to open the iPad for people who want to take their chances, much like OS X is now. Let the lemmings and the ones needing hand holding use the App Store, that's not reflective of the total market and they usually learn fast that they need a more open type platform.

Let the rest of us buy on the open market, use the Apps we want to use. Just place restrictions so that AT&T and the App store doesn't get abused. There are 3G USB sticks for laptops, so what's the big deal? You abuse the 3G you get kicked off.

I respect your views and thanks for the anecdotes. One could say that the shit has yet to hit the fan- namely that the Chinese economy will at first feel the tinges of economic despair gripping the West and then soon accelerate in its decline and China's decline will be far steeper than ours. China relies on American consumers and European Consumers to buy its goods. It is great for them that African and Middle Eastern countries are buying as well but even they are feeling the hurt of the global economic crisis (Dubai getting loans from Abu Dhabi, etc). What I fear though is that the opportunists you mentioned have already arrived and instead of having noble goals (like push for job creation) they are instead filling their own pockets from the ship (USA) that they see as sinking. Liberal or Conservative nothing is ever done in Washington precisely because that is how the corporations that pay lobbyists want it to be. But it is wrong to say that nothing gets done- a whole lot gets done for the corporate interests - look at wall street, auto makers, etc... The question is where do we go from here as a society? And why do we hold ourselves up to ideals that never existed in the first place (free market, etc). We are capitalist in regards to profits and socialist in regards to losses.
post #129 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

the iphone blew people away because it was totally new (the top selling phone in 2007, prior to iphone was a RAZR). people see the ipad and say meh, "it's been done before"... so the wow factor is not the same because the mechanics are the same. BUT...

pay attention to the demos at the keynote, and ignore everything but the chrome. there are new UI elements introduced, and new interaction paradigms that are hard to appreciate unless you actually use it (NOT that i've used it).. overall I think the keynote demos were pretty poor because they didn't split the screen and show the hands on one side, and the screen on the other.

initially, it wont take off like the iphone, there will not be hours long lines to buy, but that will change by summer. once new or pad specific apps start to hit the store and more and more people get their hands on it they'll realize that this isn't just a big ipod.

the iphone introduced intuitive mechanics: tap, flick, pinch.
the pad will introudce a [more] intuitive interface.. the quality and robustness of an app mean nothing w/o an intuitive interface. there's only so much you can do on the phone screen, as slick as the mechanics are the bigger screen means more/new innovations that utilize the same mechanics we already know (and dare I say.. now EXPECT?).. it's just that this time.. you have a bigger screen which means you can now support apps that simply wouldn't work due to the screen realestate limitations on the phone.

is it still a big ipod if they build apps that just won't work on a small screen?

apple threw down a blank canvas, the new iwork apps are "demos" of what's possible.. it's up to the devs to take those concepts and run with them.

What type of Apps do you think will change this and make it a must have item? Games?

I think that until this thing can multi-task it is not going to be that robust...
post #130 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

But yeah, I've always felt that classes in basic logic and analytical skills should added to the general curriculum in schools (starting around age 10 or so). Good to hear that you're making your kids aware.

Once a year or so I insist that they reread Stephen's Guide to the Logical Fallacies. IMO, everybody should, along with The Five Rules of Propaganda.

It is easier to resist logical fallacies and propaganda if the techniques used are set forth clearly.

IMO, many folks here embrace these techniques without being aware of it.
post #131 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

the new iwork apps are "demos" of what's possible.. it's up to the devs to take those concepts and run with them.

I took the iWork stuff to be primarily demos of the app pricing that will be possible with the iPad.
post #132 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I respect your views and thanks for the anecdotes. One could say that the shit has yet to hit the fan- namely that the Chinese economy will at first feel the tinges of economic despair gripping the West and then soon accelerate in its decline and China's decline will be far steeper than ours. China relies on American consumers and European Consumers to buy its goods. It is great for them that African and Middle Eastern countries are buying as well but even they are feeling the hurt of the global economic crisis (Dubai getting loans from Abu Dhabi, etc).


The China economic engine has started and has it's own population to use as fuel for quite some time. It also has locked in the cheapest labor and pegs it's currency to the dollar to ensure that American and European countries have no other less expensive option but to buy from China.

If there is a source that is less expensive, numerous, homologous, hardworking and as intelligent as China's people in the world, it remains to be seen.


Quote:
What I fear though is that the opportunists you mentioned have already arrived and instead of having noble goals (like push for job creation) they are instead filling their own pockets from the ship (USA) that they see as sinking.

Well it was the socialist mindset creep in government, that everyone was entitled to own their own home even if they can't afford it, started by Clinton (Community Reinvestment Act) and finished by the 2005 Congress (the ones in right now) that caused the economic mess and huge national debt we are in right now.

That "hate capitalism" socialist policy has cost the poor who were conned into giving up their life savings for a down payment on something they couldn't afford by a Government who was backing the play with tax payers money and bilking investors the world over. To the point that the actual ratings of the securities were altered!

If the real estate bubble was allowed to be a typical speculative, wealthy only type game, only the rich who held property too long would have lost. I been through one before so I know what happens. But no! The Congress decided to get Freddie and Fannie into the sub-prime game and now we are in debt to the Chinese to our eyeballs because of it.

Now Barney Frank want's to get rid of the two GSE's because nobody will buy their stock and thus can't attract any investors. He wants to create a new socialist government controlled entity so it can attract (and bilk) investors (retirees life savings) out of their hard earned money all over again.

We all, even the poor, are going to pay dearly due to the high inflation that's coming for years. It's already started last month and the Fed isn't tightening one bit so they intend for it to be high to pay back in cheaper dollars.


Quote:
Liberal or Conservative nothing is ever done in Washington precisely because that is how the corporations that pay lobbyists want it to be. But it is wrong to say that nothing gets done- a whole lot gets done for the corporate interests - look at wall street, auto makers, etc... The question is where do we go from here as a society? And why do we hold ourselves up to ideals that never existed in the first place (free market, etc). We are capitalist in regards to profits and socialist in regards to losses.


The tax payer is not a ATM machine of endless money, I calculated that everyone would have to work something like three or four months full time for free to pay for something that they had nothing to do with by a socialist government mentality that can't even run their own State of California well, much less the US Government. Sub-prime lending abuse started in California and their government is bankrupt, issuing IOU's. (But then conservative Texas has a good economy and no sub-prime mess. Why is that?)

We need to focus on endeavors that the rest of the world can't compete with the U.S. on, reverse or minimize the outbound cash flow, cut the fat like unions getting $75 a hour and 95% pay if not working and focus on competing nationally better. The fat should also be cut in other areas as well, so it's just not labor, but management as well.

Also the deflation rate should have been allowed to continue, it was a natural adjustment, to bring US prices down to more realistic world prices so we can compete on a more even level with other nations.

With all things being equal, labor costs and prices that is, companies would decide to move operations back to the US from other countries to avoid instability, government control and shipping costs.


Quote:
why are we still in Iraq?

It's obvious, Middle East stability and control is vital to the U.S. for it's energy and national security.

China like the U.S., doesn't have abundant energy resources as cheap as oil, it would be there in a heartbeat and cutting everyone else off, or making them pay higher prices.

The Middle East countries accept US involvement because we are interested in maintaining the peace and letting the free market of capitalism to work.

Those who reject the US involvement can do so, but if they threaten the region, like Saddam did, they will be dealt with.

If the US pulled out of the Middle East, there would be a rush of hostile nations in to fill the power void and thus hamper our ability to maintain our economic and national security by controlling a energy resource as cheap as oil.

So that's why we are in Iraq and Afghanistan and why Obama, despite his political campaign rhetoric, hasn't pulled out one troop out and rather increased troops instead.


Hopefully with Apple's iPad, more textbooks will become available to users at a lower cost that will explain the complicated political and economic relationships that exist between countries of the world. Shed a bit of light to the average American so they can understand the why's and how comes.

It's the ignorant public that is electing ignorant politicians.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #133 of 163
Anybody interested in discussing the story?

I think it's so interesting that Steve is doing personal dog and pony shows for the iPad. Apparently he's still in NYC and was seen visiting Time Inc. today. I don't think we've ever seen him do this for any other Apple product. He obviously has a lot personally invested in it.
Please don't be insane.
Reply
Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #134 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

I highly doubt New Yorkers will be as gullible as Hollywood's music industry.
Though again they are a very liberal news rag and he does have that Al Gore connection.

I guess you kind of missed the whole "Steve goes to NYC to court John Sculley" private talks a few decades back?

Yeah. Thought so.

In the end, Sculley didn't get it either. And look what happened to him.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
post #135 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


The Middle East countries accept US involvement because we are interested in maintaining the peace and letting the free market of capitalism to work.

Those who reject the US involvement can do so, but if they threaten the region, like Saddam did, they will be dealt with.

If the US pulled out of the Middle East, there would be a rush of hostile nations in to fill the power void and thus hamper our ability to maintain our economic and national security by controlling a energy resource as cheap as oil.

So that's why we are in Iraq and Afghanistan and why Obama, despite his political campaign rhetoric, hasn't pulled out one troop out and rather increased troops instead.

i think if i were american, i'd question why my country is protecting israel so fiercely...i would also question if my elected president is actually safeguarding american rights, or whose...
post #136 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

What type of Apps do you think will change this and make it a must have item? Games?

I think that until this thing can multi-task it is not going to be that robust...

What apps make the iPhone or iPod touch a "must have" item? I can't name one because it changes from person to person. What is really important is the selection and variety of apps so that people with different tastes and intended tasks for a tablet can see the value in the iPad. Apple has shown that iPad apps can be much better than iPhone apps. This guy just wants to read comic books on an iPad, and there is already an app under development for it.

Multitasking is largely a red herring. How many tasks can you perform at a time? One. It is far less essential to have than people suggest, saved states alone would solve many problems. The most common (and most legitimate) reason people want multitasking is to listen to music from a source other than the iPod App. An interesting point about the iPad is that it is missing a lot of stock iPad Apps that the iPod touch has like weather and stocks. These are apps that don't need to be full screen... or Apps at all. They would be better suited as widgets, which is exactly what some people are speculating about. A streaming radio widget would get around the whole app store apps can't multitask problem (native apple apps can) quite nicely wouldn't it? While multitasking isn't needed in most instances, it is definitely a nice feature to have and something I am hoping for in iPhone OS 4.0 which should be out in June. If that happens, iPad users would have suffered the "intolerable" lack of multitasking for three whole months. The lack of multitasking simply isn't a deal breaker to me, or most other people and those who care about it are usually the ones who are also capable of jailbreaking to get it. Either way, we should know more about iPhone OS 4.0 in March before the iPad ships if history is any indication.

There are two ways to look at the iPad:
1. At what it does and where it can go from there
2. Features that it doesn't have

I've said it before and I'll say it again: far too many people judge Apple products based on what they don't have, which illogical since you buy products based on what they have, not what they don't have. If you look at what the iPad has going for it, it will appear as a great platform, if you focus on missing features, it will always be terrible (naysayers will always find a new "must have" feature that is missing).
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #137 of 163
Ironically, the Pranna website is entirely flash-based and completely useless on the iPad.

http://www.prannanyc.com/
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
Reply
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
Reply
post #138 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

When you have to go to those extremes after you've launched your next "revolutionary" device then you know Apple is in BIG trouble.
Imagine what you'd being saying if Steve Ballmer was doing that for whatever reason.

Besides, you can get a subscription to the New York Times right now, today, on any Kindle.

a Kindle which basically costs the same as an iPad. with NO touch screen NO colour NO internet access NO applications NO video

basically Kindle = EPIC FAIL

a post in the style of Techstud
post #139 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

If the NY Times was offered for FREE to the iPad, with the income coming from display ads, perhaps it would work.

It's the other way around. Offer a free/$99 iPad (subsidized) for a 2 year premium online subscription.
post #140 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Apple executive reportedly arrived wearing a a very funny hat a big top hat kind of thing, and ordered penne pasta with a mango lassi to drink

I love mango lassi, and I often dress like Lincoln. What's so strange about that?
post #141 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Anybody interested in discussing the story?

I think it's so interesting that Steve is doing personal dog and pony shows for the iPad. Apparently he's still in NYC and was seen visiting Time Inc. today. I don't think we've ever seen him do this for any other Apple product. He obviously has a lot personally invested in it.

That's far from the only reasonable guess. Another might be that things are not going well with regard to attracting partners, so Steve is forced to step in.
post #142 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I've said it before and I'll say it again: far too many people judge Apple products based on what they don't have, which illogical since you buy products based on what they have, not what they don't have.

I think that the bottom line for most folks is that they DON'T buy Apple products. Perhaps it is based upon what they don't have, at least for the prices charged. Perhaps there are other reasons too.
post #143 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

That's far from the only reasonable guess. Another might be that things are not going well with regard to attracting partners, so Steve is forced to step in.

Frankly, it matters zilcho whether or not he has found 'partners.' The media needs the iPad more than the other way around. They are on their last throes and some of them, inclduing some well-known names, will not survive to get a second chance.

If this thing is nothing more than a glorified iPod Touch enlarged - it is way beyond that in so many different ways and I need not go into here - it will still be a massively successful product.

In other words, some of these traditional 'content' providers would be complete idiots to not get in line. Time will tell.
post #144 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Frankly, it matters zilcho whether or not he has found 'partners.' The media needs the iPad more than the other way around. They are on their last throes and some of them, inclduing some well-known names, will not survive to get a second chance.

If this thing is nothing more than a glorified iPod Touch enlarged - it is way beyond that in so many different ways and I need not go into here - it will still be a massively successful product.

In other words, some of these traditional 'content' providers would be complete idiots to not get in line. Time will tell.

Of even more importance, Apple already has several big media partners in place. They were announced the day the iPad was announced. Steve seems to be doing the full court press on the others. Knowing something about the way he thinks, this doesn't entirely surprise me. He wants to do for the print industry what Apple did for the music industry. I don't think he'll be satisfied with anything less.
Please don't be insane.
Reply
Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #145 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

It is just an iPod Touch Pro that you can access 3G with (from AT&T who sucks btw). Correct me if I am wrong
on this one but why exactly would people like me want to lug around an iPod Touch and an iPad? It'll fit right in between a laptop - Dolt!
There is no way I could charge my iPad from my work computer's USB port - so what? - no really - who cares? (it is too big and therefore too conspicuous in a work environ)
It is an at home device and therefore only WiFi is needed
One mistake every 10 years ain't bad (and the iPad is still better than the Zune and Windows Vista!!!). - the Zune and Vista? - oh, I get it - hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts? - no really - are you thinking?

"Correct me if I am wrong" - OK - YOU'RE WRONG! - Dolt!

You just admitted that the iPad will be a home device
There are 121,318,000 dwellings in the USofA (2005 stats),
let's just say 2.5% take up the 'home device'
some 3,000,000 odd? - on your recommendation.
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #146 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I'm like you ................ (read 'freethinker' that is)

OK, - that's fine with us - you're an idiot too - it's OK
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #147 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Of even more importance, Apple already has several big media partners in place. They were announced the day the iPad was announced. Steve seems to be doing the full court press on the others. Knowing something about the way he thinks, this doesn't entirely surprise me. He wants to do for the print industry what Apple did for the music industry. I don't think he'll be satisfied with anything less.

Exactly.
post #148 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I enjoy doing that with Rush. I point out examples to my kids when they are in the car and Rush is on the radio. He is masterful with that technique. He knows how to sound like he is actually making a cogent point without letting a single sound bite slip through. A common technique is to set up a point, start the conclusory sentence, and then digress before he ever states any conclusion.

He's masterful.

*

So the example you are setting for your kids is:

1) Listen to Rush while in the car...
2) Pay careful attention to what he is saying,,,

You sly fox

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #149 of 163
"My point is a niche product isn't going to help the Times all that much"

The electric light bulb, the telephone, the automobile, the personal computer, the cell phone, and indeed the iPod as well as many many more were ALL niche products at one point. Apple is not playing for "niche" ... the iPad will be far more successful than most people believe. Why? One big reason is the App Store, and there are many others.
post #150 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I respect your views and thanks for the anecdotes. One could say that the shit has yet to hit the fan- namely that the Chinese economy will at first feel the tinges of economic despair gripping the West and then soon accelerate in its decline and China's decline will be far steeper than ours. China relies on American consumers and European Consumers to buy its goods. It is great for them that African and Middle Eastern countries are buying as well but even they are feeling the hurt of the global economic crisis (Dubai getting loans from Abu Dhabi, etc). What I fear though is that the opportunists you mentioned have already arrived and instead of having noble goals (like push for job creation) they are instead filling their own pockets from the ship (USA) that they see as sinking. Liberal or Conservative nothing is ever done in Washington precisely because that is how the corporations that pay lobbyists want it to be. But it is wrong to say that nothing gets done- a whole lot gets done for the corporate interests - look at wall street, auto makers, etc... The question is where do we go from here as a society? And why do we hold ourselves up to ideals that never existed in the first place (free market, etc). We are capitalist in regards to profits and socialist in regards to losses.

I usually avoid this type of discussion, but I am not fully awake yet... so here goes:


On one hand we have an economy (USA) whose future depends on unrealistic, unsustainable debt.

On another hand we have an economy (China) whose future depends on unrealistic, unsustainable growth (based on human exploitation and acquisition of USA debt).


Is the USA too big to fail?

Who will bail them out?

Is China too big to fail?

Who will bail them out?

Can anything be done to rectify the situation?

What?

Does it matter?

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #151 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I
On one hand we have an economy (USA) whose future depends on unrealistic, unsustainable debt.

On what logic -- not political talking points -- do you make the judgment/statement that USA's future depends on "unrealistic, unsustainable" debt?

Oh, by that, I mean economic logic.
post #152 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

On what logic -- not political talking points -- do you make the judgment/statement that USA's future depends on "unrealistic, unsustainable" debt?

Oh, by that, I mean economic logic.

I used no political talking points...

I listen, observe, analyze...

Then I use...

Common sense!

By what logic (of any kind) can the USA realistically sustain consuming more than it produces (incurring debt)?


*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #153 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I used no political talking points...

I listen, observe, analyze...

Then I use...

Common sense!

By what logic (of any kind) can the USA realistically sustain consuming more than it produces (incurring debt)?


*

I guess you need to listen, observe, and analyze a bit more. Here are a couple of points for you to think about (I am not going to do your thinking for you):

1) How people 'sustain' a college loan, a car loan, mortgage debt?

2) How do hundreds of successful, valuable, growing companies 'sustain' themselves despite debt on their balance sheet?

3) Do you know the difference between a flow variable (income, GDP, measured on a per-year basis), and a level variable (debt, equity, metrics that reflect a cumulative outcome measured over many many years), and how to compare the two?

Common sense is not all that 'common.' And what 'common'ly passes off for it can sometimes be wrong.
post #154 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

I guess you kind of missed the whole "Steve goes to NYC to court John Sculley" private talks a few decades back?

Yeah. Thought so.

You're absolutely right. Why would I want to follow his every move as you obviously have? You probably also have every keynote he's ever made on your hard drive and light a candle in front of your screen every time you watch one.
Get a life!
post #155 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

My sentiments expounded exactly. Closed systems aren't good in countries (N. Korea or Cuba) and certainly not in consumer products. Apple has always fashioned itself as creative, free spirited, etc but it is on closer examination one of the most dictatorial corporations (maybe that has led to its success, much like China being a closed regime and having an off the charts GDP growth)...It is an interesting topic and one that I am sure will be studied at universities in the future...

Very well put.
post #156 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I guess you need to listen, observe, and analyze a bit more. Here are a couple of points for you to think about (I am not going to do your thinking for you):

1) How people 'sustain' a college loan, a car loan, mortgage debt?

2) How do hundreds of successful, valuable, growing companies 'sustain' themselves despite debt on their balance sheet?

3) Do you know the difference between a flow variable (income, GDP, measured on a per-year basis), and a level variable (debt, equity, metrics that reflect a cumulative outcome measured over many many years), and how to compare the two?

Common sense is not all that 'common.' And what 'common'ly passes off for it can sometimes be wrong.

Yes, that is all very nice, but it still does not answer the simple question:

By what logic (of any kind) can the USA (or any entity) realistically sustain consuming more than it produces (incurring debt)?


BTW, I never had a college loan, but had a loan to start a business, loans to expand the business, car loans, credit cards, and mortgages. I paid them all off by producing more than I consumed. I am now, debt free, living of my retirement and investments (assets produced by my efforts).

By good fortune, luck of birth, and diligence of my antecedents, I was born into a country and an environment that allowed an individual to fail and to succeed based on his own initiative.

I had my share of both!

Unfortunately, we are allowing that country and that environment to be dissipated.

I count my contribution to this nonsense (looking the other way, too busy to pay attention, etc.) to be my biggest failure in life. By lack of due diligence, I have squandered my greatest inheritance and my progeny will suffer for it.

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #157 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

*

So the example you are setting for your kids is:

1) Listen to Rush while in the car...
2) Pay careful attention to what he is saying,,,

You sly fox

*

Well, the real point is the dissection of shibboleths. If you'll notice, I do that here too...
post #158 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by axual View Post

"My point is a niche product isn't going to help the Times all that much"

The electric light bulb, the telephone, the automobile, the personal computer, the cell phone, and indeed the iPod as well as many many more were ALL niche products at one point. Apple is not playing for "niche" ... the iPad will be far more successful than most people believe. Why? One big reason is the App Store, and there are many others.

Unless you have some idiosyncratic definition of niche, I disagree with your remarks regarding the telephone, light bulb and the automobile. Each was intended for the mass market from day 1.
post #159 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Can anything be done to rectify the situation?

What?

*

IMO, we need to trim the current accounts deficit. This can be helped by massive "Made in the USA" and "Buy American" campaigns.

I recently bought a laptop. I bought an American brand on purpose. I wish that everybody would use the country of origin as a factor in their purchase decisions.
post #160 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


By what logic (of any kind) can the USA realistically sustain consuming more than it produces (incurring debt)?


*

We need to invest in economically productive areas: Education, industry, infrastructure. Reducing consumption would help too. But the goal is to sustain consumption, so work on the production side seems to me to be the best strategy.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Eccentric but effective Steve Jobs pitches iPad to NYT execs