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One in five physicians likely to purchase Apple iPad - study - Page 5

post #161 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmjds View Post

As a physician, I will not be able to use the IPad to access my EMR because the IPad doesn't support Windows.

Sure it does. Leave your desktop running and use Go To My PC to access the desktop. You'll have access to your full desktop environment while you're making your rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner View Post

Has your IT department ever heard of Citrix and the ICA client?

Or Go To My PC (they told me the iPad version would be out 'soon'). Or any of a dozen other thin client software packages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Yes it interferes with the patient monitors, any electromagnetic signals actually, 3G enabled laptops as well and I suspect 3G iPads will too, unless Apple has made sure that doesn't happen, how I would not know.

Is there any reason to believe that you won't be able to turn off the 3G signal (or the WiFi for that matter)? You can turn it off on the iPhone, so why not on the iPad. After all, these things will be heavily used on airplanes, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I think he's more interested in a integrated cross platform based solution for the need at hand, something that runs well on Windows, the iPad and OS X in case he switches platforms too. Of course this would require Windows and the third party software to update and manage the iPad, something I think Steve will not allow.

I guess you missed the 140,000 apps in the app store. There are a number of iPhone clients that offer what you want. If you really must use Windows, leave it on your PC and use any of the PC clients listed above. Bingo. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

I think businesses would embrace the iPad if Apple guaranteed full long-term commitment.

As a businesses, I would still see too many "Look at Newton" shadows to be comfortable making an initial large-scale investment. Anything medical costs a fortune to deploy; the last thing anyone wants is to base their business on a costly iPad-specific app, only too see their investment orphaned down the line.

This is, of course, absurd. What Apple product has been 'Newtoned' in the past decade? Apple's commitment to its products is easily as good as anyone in the industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

I design and develop applications used in hospitals for a living; I believe I have some credibility in this area. I agree that the concept of adopting a new operating system platform may be a bit challenging to hospital IT departments, but it is for this reason that the closed ecosystem of the iPad actually works for the device, whereas a full MacOS implementation would not. Why? Because it is virtually impossible for the user of the device to screw it up. Hospital IT staff can disable the installation of applications, iTunes, YouTube - this is a huge plus for them.

Exactly. This is not a PC. It's not meant to replace PCs. It's not even meant to replace laptops or netbooks. It's a portable device with limited capabilities for specific applications. And it's going to sell like hotcakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusYoung View Post

To be fair. Apple has over promised and under delivered with every iPhone OS since they changed the mobile market.

Apple has a very sad track record of only giving the users what will drive up market share before the next release of the iPhone OS (Can't speak for Mac OSX, not a user).

Your first statement is total BS. Apple doesn't promise anything at all. They don't announce products until they're done - so what you see is what you get (unlike the rest of the industry which thrives on vaporware). All the 'overpromising' comes from media hype and that's not Apple's fault.

I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by the second sentence. So Apple has a very sad track record of giving users what they want to buy? Is that really what you're trying to say? Why is that a complaint?

Oh, and maybe you should stop spending so much time whining about Macs since you don't use them and obviously don't know anything about them. Stick to a topic you know something about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Two words to describe the iPad:-

thin client

Exactly. Citrix / Go to my PC / etc will be the killer app.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I've considered that to be the one concept that could make up for most of the iPad's limitations. It looks fine on the iphone but clearly just needs a bigger screen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6TA5WDMRhA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwFgO5WizGM

This solves the problem for businesses that already have a server setup that can easily deliver this kind of experience. When it comes to home users though, there needs to be something more.

Apple could bundle some sort of Clouded Leopard as part of MobileMe that allows users certain parts of a full desktop OS experience and optimized for touch interaction. The downside is making sure the experience works well over the user's network connection and some things are just going to be unworkable.

There comes the issue of software licenses. If you already own software at home, how can you run that on an Apple server? Thin client solutions will work in some cases - probably the best examples being the medical industry - but it won't be the best solution for everyone.

Look up Go To My PC. There is hardly anyone that won't work for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

my first words are other IPAD AND other slates will be crippled until all medical data and medical film is entered in computers . and the paper records burned and destroyed by other...

That's one of the sillier arguments I've ever seen. The fact that not all data is on the computer affects the entire industry - not just slates. If you have data available on your computer, it's available to the iPad. Period. If it's not available on your computer, then the specs of the iPad are completely irrelevant
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post #162 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Pardon me, but I was the one who was agreeing with you.

Sorry...that wasn't a reply to you Dr M. I just hit the reply button...my bad.
post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

Are you honestly under the impression that your patronizing responses and condescending tone somehow deserve something more from me?

I'm sorry you and a few others here think I'm so mistaken in what I have said, here. I, in turn, think you collectively have demonstrated a significant perspective deficit, and I stand by what I said. I think any MD who honestly wants to assert that their discipline requires such sacrifice that they must set aside having friends, give up marriages, and essentially sacrifice having a personal life in virtually every aspect... well, I think that person is suffering from vocational hypochondria, or perhaps some form of transference. And if you consider such a perspective to be actually valid and you agree with it, so much so that you feel justified in attacking me for saying otherwise, then I just can't help you.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know?
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post #164 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlnoize View Post

Sorry...that wasn't a reply to you Dr M. I just hit the reply button...my bad.

Not a problem -- I figured as much.

Some people around here aren't happy unless they can raise a cat fight.
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post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlnoize View Post


Here is an excellent comparison of total career income of a UPS driver vs. a primary care Physician.

http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html

You will notice that the UPS driver has a higher net worth than the doctor from Post-High-School-Year 1 through 27. By year 27, they've evened out a bit.

Unfortunately this chart assumes only $100,000 of education debt for the physician.

It also neglects to factor in the interest of the student loans, as well as the income that could be earned by the UPS driver through real estate purchases, investing, 401k, etc during the time the doctor was in training.:

almost 50% of the UPS drivers in my area have been laid off due to the economy, have you statistics for a comparison with Doctors?
post #166 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

More than 60 percent of physicians have a workstation within arm's reach, running the medical software they already need.

While it'd be nice to see the iPad get part of the healthcare market, there's a reason physicians aren't using tablets already.

They aren't? All the doctors I have run tablets. Except for my Johns Hopkins one amusingly. Probably because he's in the hospital and has a few workstations around. Most private practices around here seem to equip their doctors and staff with small convertible tablets.

Quote:
And lest we forget, the physicians who embraced Newton just might be a little leery at giving Apple a second chance.
"What happens when Apple kills THIS platform?" is a legitimate concern.

Not really. There's hardly any other example of Apple killing platforms.
post #167 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiracer1987 View Post

almost 50% of the UPS drivers in my area have been laid off due to the economy, have you statistics for a comparison with Doctors?

Not on me...hahaha. That article does point out the one big advantage that medicine has over other fields:

Job Security

People will always be sick.

Actually what happens in medicine is kind of the opposite problem. Instead of firing people (which does happen too) older doctors simply delay retirement a few years, causing fewer job openings.

Also, it is the only field I can think of where your pay can be CUT at the government's whim. For example, cardiologist pay is being sliced by 40%.

Any of YOU take a 40% pay CUT in a year? Anyone? Absurd.
post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondgeeza View Post

One San Francisco program, dubbed "Destination Bedside," aims to use tablets to provide X-rays, charts, prescriptions and notes to hospital workers at the touch of a finger.

The ipad has an xray source?

Oh yes, the xray source! Jobs forgot to mention that during the presentation.

And if you spin two iPads around the patient you get a CT scan!

post #169 of 185
the headline makes it sound like this was some serious research done by the AMA or such.

it's not. look at the second paragraph. this was less than 500 folks asked.

as for the various issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post


In any case, you can use one of the many free or very affordable remote desktop apps for iPhone/iPad to remotely access your windows desktop running your EMR software. This way iPad becomes light portable window/screen into your desktop.

you mean such as
http://www.mochasoft.dk/iphone_rdp.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

And lest we forget, the physicians who embraced Newton just might be a little leery at giving Apple a second chance.
"What happens when Apple kills THIS platform?" is a legitimate concern.

The newton was crap which is why it didn't sell and was killed off.

the iphone has proven itself, the ipod touch as proven itself and so will the ipad.

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post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

the headline makes it sound like this was some serious research done by the AMA or such.

it's not. look at the second paragraph. this was less than 500 folks asked.

Doesn't matter. As long as it was a true random sample of physicians then 500 is a MORE than valid number for a statistical sample.

The study could be flawed if they only asked docs in a certain area...or in certain fields...or at a certain conference.

More likely, it's a biased study because only physicians who responded to the survey were counted. If the survey was conducted through their iPhone App, then it would be heavily skewed towards more iPad buyers.

It is very likely that many docs that didn't reply to the survey were NOT interested in the iPad.

It also doesn't specify what the doctors plan to use the iPad for. Just because they're going to buy one doesn't mean they're going to use it for medical purposes. Maybe they just want one because it's cool.
post #171 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlnoize View Post

Doesn't matter. As long as it was a true random sample of physicians then 500 is a MORE than valid number for a statistical sample.

The study could be flawed if they only asked docs in a certain area...or in certain fields...or at a certain conference.

from the sounds of it, they only spoke to those already using their app. So it was more of a "hey so you use our software on your iphone, are you going to get an ipad cause we are thinking we might make a new version for that. if it is going to sell" than a legit survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by beefeater999 View Post

The iSlate (sorry, the iPad!) might make work easier in some way

in the case of medicine it could make it safer. For the patients. Over the years there have been many many horror stories of patients meds not being given on time, wrong doses cause someone couldn't read the handwriting, wrong drugs being sent, missed interactions. some of these issues are caused by the flood of information that doctors have to remember and sometimes recall on the spot.

Hospitals are already looking into going paperless with everything typed and sent to a central database that sends out warnings and alerts to appropriate parties such as nurses (time for Mr Beefeater's meds), the pharmacy, the bloodbank. Even checking to see if there's an ICU bed, a surgery room (and doctors) could be done 'online'. Ideally the doctors would be able to access online drug dictionaries, calculate dosages and have warnings pop up that Mr Beefeater has taken drug X in the last 24 months (from his records in the database) and there could be serious interactions.

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post #172 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

from the sounds of it, they only spoke to those already using their app. So it was more of a "hey so you use our software on your iphone, are you going to get an ipad cause we are thinking we might make a new version for that. if it is going to sell" than a legit survey



in the case of medicine it could make it safer. For the patients. Over the years there have been many many horror stories of patients meds not being given on time, wrong doses cause someone couldn't read the handwriting, wrong drugs being sent, missed interactions. some of these issues are caused by the flood of information that doctors have to remember and sometimes recall on the spot.

Hospitals are already looking into going paperless with everything typed and sent to a central database that sends out warnings and alerts to appropriate parties such as nurses (time for Mr Beefeater's meds), the pharmacy, the bloodbank. Even checking to see if there's an ICU bed, a surgery room (and doctors) could be done 'online'. Ideally the doctors would be able to access online drug dictionaries, calculate dosages and have warnings pop up that Mr Beefeater has taken drug X in the last 24 months (from his records in the database) and there could be serious interactions.

I agree. I'm a huge fan of EMR's...if they work. Currently, most of them suck and are stuck in 1995. If Steve Jobs really wants to make his mark on the world, he'd get Apple to make an EMR from scratch for the iPad Medical Edition.

Critics of EMR's (and this is supported by research) that the system isn't perfect. For example, health workers (not just doctors write in charts, you know) often will Copy and Paste information from one part of the chart to another to save time without accurately proofreading the chart.

Others say that the EMR gives you TOO much information at times, or makes you enter information that is not pertinent, although I count this as a system design flaw, not a flaw of EMR's in general.

The ideal EMR should give you access to old patient records from any location (medical, pharmacy, dental, optometrist, etc). It should check your prescriptions for accuracy (dose, name, indication, contraindications, side effects, and drug interactions). It should allow for typing of information into fields that were previously handwritten. It should also allow handwritten notes. It should have the option to give you an algorithm of questions if you want or need it, but the doctor should not be forced to check through a thousand check boxes for a simple case of GERD. It should be able to be used as a patient education tool, while allowing easy access to other functions like the Web, medical calculators, x-rays, other patient charts, etc.

My best case scenario is that EMR's move into something circa 2002.
post #173 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

the headline makes it sound like this was some serious research done by the AMA or such.

it's not. look at the second paragraph. this was less than 500 folks asked.

I don't know what the methodology of the survey was, but 350 is not that small of a sample size. If the methodology was good, a sample size of 350 can give you a pretty good stats.
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post #174 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

...

There are maybe 800,000 doctors in the US. And you want me to believe a study that sampled 350 of them? And it's not even the SLIGHTEST bit random either. There's probably a strong bias to contact people who already OWN an iPhone and USE epocrates. And the only worthwhile version of Epocrates costs $150/year to use!

You are making some assumptions here - that the survey was not random. How do you know? How do you know if they contacted only docs with iPhones and Epocrates SW? Is it possible that they actually did contact them randomly? Is it possible that they had an independent research firm perform the study?

YOU are jumping to conclusions here (unless you have read the study in detail, I could not find it on Epocrates web site). What you say MAY be valid criticism - or it might be that you are talking through your hat.
post #175 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sure it does. Leave your desktop running and use Go To My PC to access the desktop. You'll have access to your full desktop environment while you're making y

That's one of the sillier arguments I've ever seen. The fact that not all data is on the computer affects the entire industry - not just slates. If you have data available on your computer, it's available to the iPad. Period. If it's not available on your computer, then the specs of the iPad are completely irrelevant

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post #176 of 185
The physcians' interest doesn't surprise me at all. What surprises me is that only 20 percent do.
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post #177 of 185
One in five?

Assuming that the polling was well executed, the characterization of the data seems incorrect. It would have been more accurate to say "one in five say that they are likely to purchase", with "say" being the important word.

Eventually I can see tablets being a good computing form for doctors offices. But the software isn't going to be there immediately. Doctors won't actually buy one until software is offered for their needs.
post #178 of 185
My two cents:

Even assuming the methodology is good (which we don't know, and it damn well may not be), with only 350 people surveyed and conservatively estimating the population (of clinicians in the U.S.) at 800,000, this carries a 7 point confidence interval, meaning 13-27% are likely to buy. Uninspiring survey, if you ask me. epocrates likely only published it because medical adoption of the iPad would benefit them.

Secondly, the iPad would be a great device for medical purposes. However, I don't think the surface of the OS necessarily lends itself well to secure, multi-user professional use, and extra hardware (like RFID and data transfer from medical equipment) would be huge for medicine as well. In this way, if Apple wants to be prominent in the hospital, they're going to have to work for it, specifically. Also, MacPractice has announced that they're developing for the iPad. That's good for private practice, but I don't imagine it's scalable to the enterprise level. Awful name, MacPractice. Looks a lot like "malpractice." I guess they didn't think that one out so well...

I'm not a doctor; my dad's a specialist. Being a doctor is great money, but it's still earned every day. It's not like owning a business that can make money while you sleep or play golf. And anyone who says that medicine doesn't require sacrifice hasn't been the little kid who kept trying to throw his dad's pager away. Sure, I've enjoyed some serious financial advantages because of his income, and I'm thankful for that. But don't make the mistake of thinking money is the only resource that matters. In fact, your kids won't appreciate it until they're practically grown up. It's a lot to miss, and it's why I never considered medicine myself.
post #179 of 185
Thanks for the perspective.

As for the survey, it was a marketing study, not an opinion poll. Epocrates obviously released the results to get some free publicity for their products. I don't know what methodology they used, but people who have a fundamental problem with sampling as a valid statistical method, next time they have some blood drawn, should demand that they take all of it.
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post #180 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Thanks for the perspective.

As for the survey, it was a marketing study, not an opinion poll. Epocrates obviously released the results to get some free publicity for their products. I don't know what methodology they used, but people who have a fundamental problem with sampling as a valid statistical method, next time they have some blood drawn, should demand that they take all of it.

Nobody's complaining that every doc in the country wasn't asked, and I'm an accountant; we sample. The argument is that sampling 350 people to represent a huge population produces a larger confidence interval than I would like to see. There's a big difference between 13 and 27%, and even 27% may not be terribly impressive, depending on the methodology. Of course you don't take all the blood, but you take enough to run the tests you need.
post #181 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlnoize View Post

I agree. I'm a huge fan of EMR's...if they work. Currently, most of them suck and are stuck in 1995. .

I agree. Most physicians I speak with aren't very happy with their EMRs. In fact when I was looking at EMRs few would recommend what they were using.

Its one reason why I think Apple have an opportunity in health care. Most practitioners and hospitals may use Windows based systems but they suck for the most part and a good product could come in and take market share rapidly. Many wouldn't hesitate to turn away from what they currently use as most are pretty unhappy with what they have.

The ideal product needs to be a combined EMR/billing package. I've seen products that try to do both and usually it's billing software that tries to integrate EMR functionality into the package. In these cases the EMR component usually isn't good enough.
post #182 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Nobody's complaining that every doc in the country wasn't asked, and I'm an accountant; we sample. The argument is that sampling 350 people to represent a huge population produces a larger confidence interval than I would like to see. There's a big difference between 13 and 27%, and even 27% may not be terribly impressive, depending on the methodology. Of course you don't take all the blood, but you take enough to run the tests you need.

Right, but as I said, it was marketing study, not a poll. The news we can use is that Epocrates was apparently sufficiently satisfied with the results to do an iPad version of their software. That's all I take from it.
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post #183 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

There are currently already nearly 3 Million Nurses.

There are probably ten times that in support personnel.

They all use Laptops in each room they are monitoring a patient. Each room has a portable station with XP updating records constantly.

Instead of each room having a laptop the Nurse will run around and push changes to the Relational Database System hospital wide thus covering their dozens of patients with reduced costs to the Hospitals.

BEFORE this iPad was announced -- I figured the Medical community at the very least was going to be a HUGE market. Education seems like the next most likely but that depended on price. That $500 mark however, makes it very realistic.

Don't talk about dang netbooks -- they are a distraction for these two market -- especially with kids.

Every one of the DOWN-SIDES pundits have been echoing, are actually HUGE benefits for these two target markets;
>>Control software distribution to secured apps.
>>Remote wipe.
>>Control what data is on the device -- wireless mount points.
>>Does not have a video camera.
>>No seams or keyboard to get contaminants lodged in.
>>Not too small -- not too big.
>>Rugged -- especially with 3rd-party cases.

I expect that Apple will allow for a local wireless distribution. If you become a business-class developer with the iPhone, then you can distribute apps that don't go through the iStore. What I think most hospitals will want is remote storage of data -- such that taking it home will not mean keeping patient records.

>> The other amazing thing to me, is that the CHORUS of detractors seems like an organized marketing PR blitz -- meaning, that SOME of them, are probably people who don't like Apple, resent them, or don't get the Usability > Techno specs sometimes -- but SOME are very likely paid bloggers.

I don't think this is a conspiracy at all, we have people at our office who do "SEO" -- and I'm sure the temptation is for some companies to spam popular blogs with people who pretend to LIKE or DISLIKE a product based on if it is their companies or a competitors.

>> Anyway.... this iPad seems tailor made for medicine. I'm not going to get one until it has a web cam --- but that's me. For Kiosks and Point of Purchase -- even waiters, it is perfect. The other HUGE factor, is the expansion port is designed to have all sorts of diagnostic devices added to it. So lot's of medical instrumentation and sensors are going to migrate to the iPad as they did the iTouch/iPhone. The development of these tools, has probably only caught on since the iPhone 3.0 software release added real time sensor data -- so it should be hitting the market fairly soon, which should only help adoption.

I think that 1 in 5 is a conservative estimate -- but that's the first year. That's 600,000 in sales, maybe a $200 profit margin and that comes to; $120,000,000 in sales if no other group buys it. Not enough to recoup the investment right away -- but that is an influential market. The Geek/Developer market is the one that keep telling us it needs to be a laptop.
post #184 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlnoize View Post

I agree. I'm a huge fan of EMR's...if they work. Currently, most of them suck and are stuck in 1995. If Steve Jobs really wants to make his mark on the world, he'd get Apple to make an EMR from scratch for the iPad Medical Edition.

There are dozens of industries that would welcome Apple making application suites for them.

i work in a completely opposite domain and the users say "just make it work like a mac". More like plead to make it just work like a mac.

It is insanely difficult to make complex apps as well as Apple does. And yes, we have HCI/HSI/UX people, mandated HCI standards and decent budgets and 99% of the apps in my domain really suck. 1% suck somewhat less.
post #185 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

There are dozens of industries that would welcome Apple making application suites for them.

i work in a completely opposite domain and the users say "just make it work like a mac". More like plead to make it just work like a mac.

It is insanely difficult to make complex apps as well as Apple does. And yes, we have HCI/HSI/UX people, mandated HCI standards and decent budgets and 99% of the apps in my domain really suck. 1% suck somewhat less.

Well I wish Apple was a bit like Intel. If Intel find a technology they think is important they will invest in it to help ensure its future. WiMax and Clearwire are good examples of this type of activity. I'm guessing they provide a fair amount of technical support as well.

Apple should find Mac vendors in targeted industries and provide monetary and technical support. We know they can't develop apps for everything and they don't need to. But they can help with money and support and develop a framework for how things should work. In that way all Mac apps would have a certain feel to them and it would be easy to transfer skills from one app to another. Oh, and money isn't an issue for Apple right now. They need to do something with all that cash sitting around.

MacPractice is one company that probably would greatly benefit from a little money and Apple technical support. Their billing software is excellent. They are integrating EMR functionality into the app but its immature and not ready for prime time at the moment IMO.
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