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Why are liberals so condescending? - Page 7

post #241 of 334
2/21/10 at 6:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think I've made it quite clear but let me try again:

NO sane or rational person can EVER support any claim when you are on the other side of the equation.

There is just no possibility - so no sane or rational person would try. This is because you are colour-blind when it comes to facts - you just can't see them...

It's not your fault - from your pov they don't exist...but that does not mean that other people not so challenged can't see them.

So there is no point...it's a dialogue of the deaf - one might prod you once in a while as one hits an empty oil drum to demonstrate that it can make a loud noise - and this in itself is something and even sometimes useful - but we should leave all notions of 'facts' and 'support' out of it...

Yippee! Apparently I alter the universe. Sego can make accuse people of things but doesn't have to prove them because I won't be able to understand them according to his wonderful reasoning!

Excuse me Mr. Indisputably True. Would you care to support that bold claim. I'll be happy to see any quotes where I claimed you've been censured.

Support the claim or withdraw it.

Do us all a favor and humor me. Even if I can hear Jimmy but can't 'listen' to him, you can still prove your point for all the other out there posting and lurking.

Otherwise you might just look like a guy who makes up accusations and follows up the inability to prove those accusations with more made up accusations.

Please show where I ever claimed you had been banned, or censured in the past. If you can't, that's fine but don't fling more accusations around to cover up the first one. That's just bad form.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #242 of 334
2/21/10 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yippee! Apparently I alter the universe. Sego can make accuse people of things but doesn't have to prove them because I won't be able to understand them according to his wonderful reasoning!

Excuse me Mr. Indisputably True. Would you care to support that bold claim. I'll be happy to see any quotes where I claimed you've been censured.

Support the claim or withdraw it.

Do us all a favor and humor me. Even if I can hear Jimmy but can't 'listen' to him, you can still prove your point for all the other out there posting and lurking.

Otherwise you might just look like a guy who makes up accusations and follows up the inability to prove those accusations with more made up accusations.

Please show where I ever claimed you had been banned, or censured in the past. If you can't, that's fine but don't fling more accusations around to cover up the first one. That's just bad form.

I can't humour you, I really can't - I can translate Farsi for you and your translation will still trump mine (hey - is that the origin of your nick??) - so what hope have I got when we're talking about YOUR OWN quotes???

As to looking like someone who makes up accusations - you don't get it do you? I HAVE to look this way to you or else my whole model falls apart...it's like if you started to believe Iran might not be building a nuke or that there were no WMDs - you just would not be Trumpt anymore
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #243 of 334
2/21/10 at 6:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I can't humour you, I really can't - I can translate Farsi for you and your translation will still trump mine (hey - is that the origin of your nick??) - so what hope have I got when we're talking about YOUR OWN quotes???

As to looking like someone who makes up accusations - you don't get it do you? I HAVE to look this way to you or else my whole model falls apart...it's like if you started to believe Iran might not be building a nuke or that there were no WMDs - you just would not be Trumpt anymore

Interesting reasoning...

A couple points.

It's clear that I never claimed you had been censured in the past. Obviously you enjoyed making up the claim and now enjoy taking the hits on your own credibility.

However, obviously you've volunteered yourself as the sort of test case for the thread topic. The reasoning here is much more interesting than your lack of credibility. It appears that your mental model requires some interesting avenues to balance itself.

I find it interesting that you claim the desire to act as a caricature in order, I'm guessing this is a sort of mental worldview justification, to sustain the fact that you caricature others continually in your interactions with them.

This is most fascinating. It is sort of like saying, since you want to be a superhero, someone has to really be a villain, or at least put on a costume and dance around reciting some evil monologue I suppose.

I can really see where this is going now and believe that it will actually prove my prior assertion. When liberals encounter someone who isn't afraid of their bullying and claims of moral and intellectual superiority, and in fact will call them onto the carpet, they pretty much mentally lose it.

The model can't work without the caricatures. If they aren't the superhero's ridding the world of bad intentions, then they end up just being angry people trying to control others with threats. If they looked into the mirror and saw that, it might wreck their whole mental model.

You've provided some valuable insight here Sego. Sure underneath the your bluster there was more bluster still followed by more bluster, but something slipped out and it wasn't just the meat sausage you use for your iPhone on cold days, it was some insight to the liberal condescension and why it occurs.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #244 of 334
2/21/10 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Interesting reasoning...

A couple points.

It's clear that I never claimed you had been censured in the past. Obviously you enjoyed making up the claim and now enjoy taking the hits on your own credibility.

However, obviously you've volunteered yourself as the sort of test case for the thread topic. The reasoning here is much more interesting than your lack of credibility. It appears that your mental model requires some interesting avenues to balance itself.

I find it interesting that you claim the desire to act as a caricature in order, I'm guessing this is a sort of mental worldview justification, to sustain the fact that you caricature others continually in your interactions with them.

This is most fascinating. It is sort of like saying, since you want to be a superhero, someone has to really be a villain, or at least put on a costume and dance around reciting some evil monologue I suppose.

I can really see where this is going now and believe that it does actually prove the prior assertion. When liberals encounter someone who isn't afraid of their bullying and claims of moral and intellectual superiority, and in fact will call them onto the carpet, they pretty much mentally lose it.

The model can't work without the caricatures. If they aren't the superhero's ridding the world of bad intentions, then they end up just being angry people trying to control others with threats. If they looked into the mirror and saw that, it might wreck their whole mental model.

You've provided some valuable insight here Sego. Sure underneath the your bluster there was more bluster still followed by more bluster, but something slipped out and it wasn't just the meat sausage you use for your iPhone on cold days, it was some insight to the liberal condescension and why it occurs.

Not sure I understand this. It seems incomprehensible still...I'll take a wild stab and assume it is something to do with my perceived failure to back up my earlier assertion.

So let's backtrack a little.

1. When I said that I had in mind a specific quote of yours.

2. You ask me to provide one and I quoted you this quote.

3. You refuse to accept it.

This is actually a pattern of yours.... the same thing happened with the 'wipe off the map' issue - the point is to deflect any facts you disagree with at all costs.

Now, it may be possible that I misunderstood your original quote - that's fair enough, happens - but you don't even consider that or do the courtesy of explaining that I might have got it wrong...no, that's not the way because that might lead to resolution..

And we don't want that do we? A draw is no good...you have to win at all costs.

This ties in with the earlier observations of the right0-wing character by many astute posters here - that their view of politics (or even debate) is essentially a 'sports event'...

And of course Americans don't like draws in their sports events do they? They never happen...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #245 of 334
2/21/10 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Apparently you unaware that in human experience, we have the concepts of past, present and future. You have now taken a prediction of the future and used it as proof of prior events. I find that very odd. Enjoy the looking glass world because apparently being a victim of it means the future is now the past.



Talk about adding insult to injury.



Hilarious! Very nicely done.



Tsk, tsk, slippage is occurring. It's hard to keep on that mask of decorum. Don't let it slip off.



Max, this is some of the sharpest writing I have read in quite a while. It is very appreciated as are all of your posts. Nicely done!

Quote:
Talk about adding insult to injury.

This is why we question that it's liberals that are condescending.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #246 of 334
2/21/10 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Excuse me Mr. Indisputably True. Would you care to support that bolded claim. I'll be happy to see any quotes where I claimed you've been censured.

Support the claim or withdraw it.

I'm still waiting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac
I've got to hand it to you you're a good poster!


Seg, is Jimmac being a proper bottom for you? When you make him scream your name does he do so in authentic Aramaic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac
I've got to hand it to you you're a good poster!

WOW! You're so desperate you have to use this twice?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #247 of 334
2/21/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It's fun to joke around about.

That said, since you cannot support the claim, I consider it withdrawn. Your credibility now reflects the fact that you'd rather laugh away your accusations rather support them.

I'll be laughing right along with everyone else.

Quote:
Your credibility now reflects the fact that you'd rather laugh away your accusations rather support them.

Your credibility went right out the window when you wouldn't answer the question about your partisan nature regarding Obama and the economy. It showed you'd give the same type of reponse to real issues no matter what because you want to win.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #248 of 334
2/23/10 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

This ties in with the earlier observations of the right0-wing character by many astute posters here - that their view of politics (or even debate) is essentially a 'sports event'...

And of course Americans don't like draws in their sports events do they? They never happen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tie_%28draw%29

Really?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #249 of 334
2/23/10 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tie_%28draw%29

Really?

Quote:
Tie games, which were commonplace through the 1960s, have become exceedingly rare with the introduction of sudden death overtime which first applied to the regular season in 1974

It's getting so old doing the work of the wingers....I almost feel like I am one the amount of thinking and research I have to do on their behalf.

I need a break...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #250 of 334
2/23/10 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's getting so old doing the work of the wingers....I almost feel like I am one the amount of thinking and research I have to do on their behalf.

I need a break...

Your comprehension does indeed need a break it seems. You said, THEY NEVER HAPPEN.

The quote you post says, they rarely occur. I suppose rare is the same as never right?

I am getting very tired of sparring with you. Your level of friendliness has taken a sharp decline as of late. I know you don't care, and that is precisely the problem.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #251 of 334
2/23/10 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Your comprehension does indeed need a break it seems. You said, THEY NEVER HAPPEN.

The quote you post says, they rarely occur. I suppose rare is the same as never right?

I am getting very tired of sparring with you. Your level of friendliness has taken a sharp decline as of late. I know you don't care, and that is precisely the problem.

Idiom.

You should understand that...at least it's in the ballpark and not total reverse-speak. Maybe that's the problem.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #252 of 334
2/23/10 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Idiom.

You should understand that...at least it's in the ballpark and not total reverse-speak. Maybe that's the problem.

Condescend a little more please...

Hold yourself to you own standards of speech and decorum. It would go a long way to restoring your personal credibility in any conversations with me. Right now you can't seem to find you way free to care whether your conversations are civil or not.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #253 of 334
2/23/10 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Not sure I understand this. It seems incomprehensible still...I'll take a wild stab and assume it is something to do with my perceived failure to back up my earlier assertion.

So let's backtrack a little.

1. When I said that I had in mind a specific quote of yours.

Of course which is why I asked for you to provide it. You declared I that I had said you were often censured.

Quote:
2. You ask me to provide one and I quoted you this quote.

3. You refuse to accept it.

That is because the quote you provided was of me predicting a future ban for you. The past and the future are not the same thing. I could predict you will die in the future and this doesn't mean you've died in the past.

Quote:
This is actually a pattern of yours.... the same thing happened with the 'wipe off the map' issue - the point is to deflect any facts you disagree with at all costs.

Now, it may be possible that I misunderstood your original quote - that's fair enough, happens - but you don't even consider that or do the courtesy of explaining that I might have got it wrong...no, that's not the way because that might lead to resolution..

I'm pretty sure if you go back, you'll see I've already explained this once.

Apparently you unaware that in human experience, we have the concepts of past, present and future. You have now taken a prediction of the future and used it as proof of prior events. I find that very odd. Enjoy the looking glass world because apparently being a victim of it means the future is now the past.

Quote:
And we don't want that do we? A draw is no good...you have to win at all costs.

This ties in with the earlier observations of the right0-wing character by many astute posters here - that their view of politics (or even debate) is essentially a 'sports event'...

And of course Americans don't like draws in their sports events do they? They never happen...

Well not to upset you, but this is what I call the intent game. This has been explained to you twice now. Paragraphs of ranting about the supposed motivations and rationales of myself or 'right-wing' people doesn't change any of the fact that a future prediction is not a past event. Given the fact that speaking to the intent of posters is the foundation of ad-hom fallacies and that such ad-homs are not allowed as part of the posting guidelines, I consider my prediction well founded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Your credibility went right out the window when you wouldn't answer the question about your partisan nature regarding Obama and the economy. It showed you'd give the same type of reponse to real issues no matter what because you want to win.

Spin isn't real issues. I'm sorry you cannot understand that. Honestly it is quite upsetting to imagine you can't tell the difference. The fact that you want to use hypotheticals in place of real events literally means you are imagining outcomes. It is straight up substitution. The real events are bad. You say, imagine they aren't and when people don't want to imagine, you assign them ill intent.

Intent Game, straight up again. If outcomes are bad, being unwilling to entertain an imaginary world where they aren't isn't partisan. Again it is the opposite of partisan. It makes one a realist. The one who wants to ignore reality for entertain stories of hypothetical outcomes where the team wins is the partisan figure.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #254 of 334
2/23/10 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's not an exorcism true (maybe it should be though? Would be better I think...For everyone) but it is questionable, grotesque and extreme.

This is definitely under the category of bizarre behaviour. No question.

It's bizarre to pray with a group? What? And who are you to determine what is "normal" religious behavior?

Quote:

This is incredible - you couldn't make this up..no way..give a million monkeys a million typewriters (sounds a bit like this place) and they may write Shakespeare but they wouldn't script this..

Ahmedinejad is slated for using an idiom that is quite innocent, acceptable and even, to a certain extent, conciliatory - Palin is clearly lusting for war with Iran and - although not calling for it explicitly (merely a political decision) manages to convey that such a war and invasion would be a good thing and IT'S OK!!!!

Unbelievable

She didn't call for a war. Not even close. You don't know that she is "lusting" for a war...this is just your narrow interpretation. Same with your perception that she "conveyed" a war would be a good thing. This is your perception and nothing more.

Quote:



If she's right it's pathetic.

I can't think of a civilized country where this NECESSARILY happens regardless of other factors. It implies a degree of brain-washing of the populace that is astounding....

It's also obscene. But what else can one expect...

So the country is pathetic then, I suppose. Right or wrong, it ALWAYS happens. A President's popularity goes up during war time...at least in the short term. You can disparage that fact all you want, but it happens. It effects the outcomes of elections, too. That's what Palin was saying. Right now Obama wouldn't be re-elected, but a lot can happen. If we went to war, it may well change things. That's nothing but a political analysis.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #255 of 334
2/23/10 at 11:42am
Thank God...some sanity...that's how bad things are...SDW is officially the sanest right-wing poster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It's bizarre to pray with a group? What? And who are you to determine what is "normal" religious behavior?

Who is anyone to determine anything? everyone here is shouting the odds so let's not get in any pulpits ourselves....besides, it may be that there is NO 'normal' religious behaviour.

I just saw something weird and disturbing and mentioned - is that ok? Or did we get shari'a already and I missed it (hahahah)

Quote:
She didn't call for a war. Not even close. You don't know that she is "lusting" for a war...this is just your narrow interpretation. Same with your perception that she "conveyed" a war would be a good thing. This is your perception and nothing more.

If you believe Ahmedinejad called for the extermination of Israel then by the same standard she not only called for a war she said she was personally going to launch the nukes.

Quote:
So the country is pathetic then, I suppose. Right or wrong, it ALWAYS happens. A President's popularity goes up during war time...at least in the short term. You can disparage that fact all you want, but it happens. It effects the outcomes of elections, too. That's what Palin was saying. Right now Obama wouldn't be re-elected, but a lot can happen. If we went to war, it may well change things. That's nothing but a political analysis.

Yeah...pathetic is about right....I wouldn't worry though..it's the same all over. Happening in the UK right now too with - God help us - the Falklands (??????) and if it's any consolation they are far bigger sheep.

I agree with her. It does happen. It's sad and pathetic and a pathetic sign of brainwashed dronery but happen it does.... with some exceptions of course.. the people who actually fought and the people whose kids have died for example.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #256 of 334
2/23/10 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

It's bizarre to pray with a group? What? And who are you to determine what is "normal" religious behavior?



She didn't call for a war. Not even close. You don't know that she is "lusting" for a war...this is just your narrow interpretation. Same with your perception that she "conveyed" a war would be a good thing. This is your perception and nothing more.



So the country is pathetic then, I suppose. Right or wrong, it ALWAYS happens. A President's popularity goes up during war time...at least in the short term. You can disparage that fact all you want, but it happens. It effects the outcomes of elections, too. That's what Palin was saying. Right now Obama wouldn't be re-elected, but a lot can happen. If we went to war, it may well change things. That's nothing but a political analysis.

Amazing haw a reiteration of the same points is suddenly making one the sanest poster here. Congratulations on breaking through! (I think. )
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #257 of 334
2/23/10 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Amazing haw a reiteration of the same points is suddenly making one the sanest poster here. Congratulations on breaking through! (I think. )

Don't get too excited...SDW is clearly insane - as indeed we all are I guess, this place being a sort of virtual asylum - but rather less so and in a different way
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #258 of 334
2/23/10 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Don't get too excited...SDW is clearly insane - as indeed we all are I guess, this place being a sort of virtual asylum - but rather less so and in a different way

Being as insanity can be defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, I for one am going to break the chain. Enjoy your insanity...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #259 of 334
2/23/10 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Being as insanity can be defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, I for one am going to break the chain. Enjoy your insanity...

Or constantly doing the same thing and expecting a result that does not happen...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #260 of 334
2/23/10 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Of course which is why I asked for you to provide it. You declared I that I had said you were often censured.



That is because the quote you provided was of me predicting a future ban for you. The past and the future are not the same thing. I could predict you will die in the future and this doesn't mean you've died in the past.



I'm pretty sure if you go back, you'll see I've already explained this once.

Apparently you unaware that in human experience, we have the concepts of past, present and future. You have now taken a prediction of the future and used it as proof of prior events. I find that very odd. Enjoy the looking glass world because apparently being a victim of it means the future is now the past.



Well not to upset you, but this is what I call the intent game. This has been explained to you twice now. Paragraphs of ranting about the supposed motivations and rationales of myself or 'right-wing' people doesn't change any of the fact that a future prediction is not a past event. Given the fact that speaking to the intent of posters is the foundation of ad-hom fallacies and that such ad-homs are not allowed as part of the posting guidelines, I consider my prediction well founded.



Spin isn't real issues. I'm sorry you cannot understand that. Honestly it is quite upsetting to imagine you can't tell the difference. The fact that you want to use hypotheticals in place of real events literally means you are imagining outcomes. It is straight up substitution. The real events are bad. You say, imagine they aren't and when people don't want to imagine, you assign them ill intent.

Intent Game, straight up again. If outcomes are bad, being unwilling to entertain an imaginary world where they aren't isn't partisan. Again it is the opposite of partisan. It makes one a realist. The one who wants to ignore reality for entertain stories of hypothetical outcomes where the team wins is the partisan figure.

Quote:
Spin isn't real issues. I'm sorry you cannot understand that. Honestly it is quite upsetting to imagine you can't tell the difference. The fact that you want to use hypotheticals in place of real events literally means you are imagining outcomes. It is straight up substitution. The real events are bad. You say, imagine they aren't and when people don't want to imagine, you assign them ill intent.

I'm sorry you don't understand a hypothetical question that didn't require any change of position from you isn't spin. It's a " What if? ". Besides speculation I'll bet you don't like science fiction as well. My question was aimed at revealing your true nature ( partisan or not ). You lost that one with flying colors.

Now when you talk about those " real " issues you can't be taken seriously because you'd say whatever furthers the goals of your side or postion ( regardless of the reality ).

A realist that can't entertain hypothetical speculation because of the side he's on. That's rich! Real rich!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #261 of 334
2/23/10 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm sorry you don't understand a hypothetical question that didn't require any change of position from you isn't spin. It's a " What if? ". Besides speculation I'll bet you don't like science fiction as well. My question was aimed at revealing your true nature ( partisan or not ). You lost that one with flying colors.

True nature is what I post on here. You believe there is a 'hidden' true nature and that is the very nature of the intent game. You want to discuss what you believe people are hiding rather than what they actually say. The hypotheticals are no better than a loaded question akin to "Does daughter know you raped her?" Their only intention was to craft accusations and that was proven by the very fact that even failure to engage in them grounds for accusations.

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Now when you talk about those " real " issues you can't be taken seriously because you'd say whatever furthers the goals of your side or postion ( regardless of the reality ).

So reality has a side now? The economic news being posted about Obama isn't spin. You want to see if people will engage in spin of it as proof of being... nonpartisan. It is the most ridiculous position I've encountered from you. It is akin to declaring one must speculate about cheating on a spouse to prove they are faithful and failure to do so proves they are a cheat.

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A realist that can't entertain hypothetical speculation because of the side he's on. That's rich! Real rich!

That reasoning right there is pretty rich. I'll be glad to let it speak for itself.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #262 of 334
2/23/10 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

True nature is what I post on here. You believe there is a 'hidden' true nature and that is the very nature of the intent game. You want to discuss what you believe people are hiding rather than what they actually say. The hypotheticals are no better than a loaded question akin to "Does daughter know you raped her?" Their only intention was to craft accusations and that was proven by the very fact that even failure to engage in them grounds for accusations.



So reality has a side now? The economic news being posted about Obama isn't spin. You want to see if people will engage in spin of it as proof of being... nonpartisan. It is the most ridiculous position I've encountered from you. It is akin to declaring one must speculate about cheating on a spouse to prove they are faithful and failure to do so proves they are a cheat.



That reasoning right there is pretty rich. I'll be glad to let it speak for itself.

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True nature is what I post on here.

You can't imagine? Well that would explain a lot.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #263 of 334
2/27/10 at 6:04am
Thread Starter 


It couldn't be much clearer.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #264 of 334
2/27/10 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post



It couldn't be much clearer.

As an illustration of the limitations of what passes for 'thought' amongst right-wingers...no it could not...it is crystal clear. Sadly and horrifically so...

You see there IS such a thing as people who are 'ignorant, gullible, uppity and prone to outbreaks of violence' - it happens.

Many people have these problems - and they are not ALL right-wingers either.

There is NOTHING wrong with calling it.

There is EVERYTHING wrong with claiming it has a basis in racial characteristics.

You see it's all about choice - a right-winger chooses to be a right-winger and so he then 'approves' the characteristics of the ideological group he has joined.

These ideals may be abhorrent - many right-wing ideals are - but the individual CHOOSES to buy into them. That is why it is correct and useful to point out the fallacy of their choice:

1) Because it WAS a choice
2) And because it was a STUPID one that is morally incomprehensible

Transferring this analogy as above and (mis) applying it to race is not only wrong and incorrect to the level of evincing a level of comprehension somewhere lower than that of a neanderthaler village idiot, it may well be racist in itself.

Because:

1) Racial characteristics are NOT the outcome of any choice
2) To apply such negative traits racially as above is to apply them in toto to a whole demographic and not to people who have CHOSEN a certain ideology.

As I say, this is indicative of a racist mode of thought in itself but the most important thing is what it demonstrates about right-wing thought processes (forgive the non-sequtur) - ie that there is no discernible difference between alleged racial characteristics and those adopted through a choice.

I think this is why the right-wing inclines so much to totalitarianism - they just cannot see the difference between personal choice and ingrained characteristics.

Either that or they will use absolutely anything in desperate support of a flailing argument.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #265 of 334
2/27/10 at 7:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

As an illustration of the limitations of what passes for 'thought' amongst right-wingers...no it could not...it is crystal clear. Sadly and horrifically so...

You see there IS such a thing as people who are 'ignorant, gullible, uppity and prone to outbreaks of violence' - it happens.

Would you like to link to the many examples of this happening with the tea party since apparently the claims of action have happened often enough to now generalize.


Quote:
Many people have these problems - and they are not ALL right-wingers either.

There is NOTHING wrong with calling it.

There is when it hasn't happened. When has the tea party engaged in violence? By what criteria have they been determined to be ignorant, gullible or uppity? When did more than the odd exception or two even label their own movement tea bagging?

Hatred rationalized is still hatred and what is being done here is by you is rationalization of hatred.

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There is EVERYTHING wrong with claiming it has a basis in racial characteristics.

Are you claiming there isn't the odd exception within race as well? Are you claiming there is no one of African-American ancestry who would meet any of those descriptors? Of course there is but when generalizing to the whole group we call it what it happens to be and that is stereotyping.

Stereotyping is NOT limited to racial characteristics. It is wrong to use there as well but stereotyping can be used with ANY social group. Thus it can and has been used in this instance as well.

You are rationalizing stereotyping and calling it proper. That is hateful and wrong.

Quote:
You see it's all about choice - a right-winger chooses to be a right-winger and so he then 'approves' the characteristics of the ideological group he has joined.

Except that the majority nor even a large minority of this group have ever been proven to have these traits or engage in these behaviors. It is no different than calling someone a pollack or a f*g.

Quote:
These ideals may be abhorrent - many right-wing ideals are - but the individual CHOOSES to buy into them. That is why it is correct and useful to point out the fallacy of their choice:

1) Because it WAS a choice
2) And because it was a STUPID one that is morally incomprehensible

Thanks for demonstrating your own hatred and ability to stereotype.
Quote:

Transferring this analogy as above and (mis) applying it to race is not only wrong and incorrect to the level of evincing a level of comprehension somewhere lower than that of a neanderthaler village idiot, it may well be racist in itself.

Because:

1) Racial characteristics are NOT the outcome of any choice
2) To apply such negative traits racially as above is to apply them in toto to a whole demographic and not to people who have CHOSEN a certain ideology.

As I say, this is indicative of a racist mode of thought in itself but the most important thing is what it demonstrates about right-wing thought processes (forgive the non-sequtur) - ie that there is no discernible difference between alleged racial characteristics and those adopted through a choice.

I think this is why the right-wing inclines so much to totalitarianism - they just cannot see the difference between personal choice and ingrained characteristics.

Either that or they will use absolutely anything in desperate support of a flailing argument.

Thanks for also continuing to rationalize it. We wouldn't want to claim you had merely misspoken.

The only reason anyone would feel safe making the claims you have made is because their hatred allows them to engage in such processes. There is no basis for your claims. Your reasoning is nothing more than circular hatred.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #266 of 334
2/27/10 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Thank God...some sanity...that's how bad things are...SDW is officially the sanest right-wing poster



Who is anyone to determine anything? everyone here is shouting the odds so let's not get in any pulpits ourselves....besides, it may be that there is NO 'normal' religious behaviour.

Nice.

Quote:

I just saw something weird and disturbing and mentioned - is that ok? Or did we get shari'a already and I missed it (hahahah)



If you believe Ahmedinejad called for the extermination of Israel then by the same standard she not only called for a war she said she was personally going to launch the nukes.

I don't necessarily believe the former, so let's leave it there.

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Yeah...pathetic is about right....I wouldn't worry though..it's the same all over. Happening in the UK right now too with - God help us - the Falklands (??????) and if it's any consolation they are far bigger sheep.

I agree with her. It does happen. It's sad and pathetic and a pathetic sign of brainwashed dronery but happen it does.... with some exceptions of course.. the people who actually fought and the people whose kids have died for example.

I don't agree. It's a sign of unity in times of crisis or national emergency or whatever you want to call it.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #267 of 334
2/27/10 at 9:08am
Obama was pretty funny at the health care summit (photo op). Pure arrogance indeed.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #268 of 334
2/27/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Obama was pretty funny at the health care summit (photo op). Pure arrogance indeed.

Bush's summits were so much better.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #269 of 334
2/27/10 at 12:07pm
And conservatives aren't condescending?
Is this even worth debating?
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post #270 of 334
2/27/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Mac View Post

And conservatives aren't condescending?
Is this even worth debating?

Only if you have an open mind.
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post #271 of 334
2/27/10 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

Only if you have an open mind.

Ok. Just look at most of the titles of the threads started here by conservatives and tell me they aren't just as condescending if not more so.

The proof's in the pudding.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #272 of 334
2/27/10 at 4:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

Only if you have an open mind.

Yes and can realize that stereotyping, caricaturing and ad-homs are not actual reasoning.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #273 of 334
2/27/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yes and can realize that stereotyping, caricaturing and ad-homs are not actual reasoning.

Do you mean like blaming an entire generation for all of the country's problems?


BOOM!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #274 of 334
2/28/10 at 1:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post



It couldn't be much clearer.

This is a racist cartoon. You should be careful. Racist jokes can get you banned on other forums, trumptman. Like applenova, for example.

http://forums.applenova.com/showthre...833#post648833

They ban people and delete their racist posts there.

Aanyway.

This is racist because race isn't a choice - like political ideology, for example. This cartoon is a disgraceful excuse to take digs at black people, dressed up as a whining call for 'balance' and redress.
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post #275 of 334
2/28/10 at 1:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Thank God...some sanity...that's how bad things are...SDW is officially the sanest right-wing poster
.

This is true. SDW is completely wrong about almost everything but he argues from facts, he doesn't play fucking annoying wordgames, he's not provocative for the sake of it and the bargain is he'll be persuaded if you will. Which is why it's kind of enjoyable to argue with him.
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post #276 of 334
2/28/10 at 3:49am
Thread Starter 
Perhaps the most consdescending action of all, is declaring you are engaging in the work of a movement while in reality, you are astroturfing. Bonus irony points for acually declaring the opposition to be astroturfing when legitimate groups like the Tea Party pop up.

Seems President Obama has been begging for volunteers to call into radio talk shows.

It has a nice list of talking points... I mean discussion points which of course woud be proof of horrid things of Republicans engaged in making a list of talking points. Afterwards you can report your good deed, or perhaps your neighbor for being too fishy.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #277 of 334
2/28/10 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Perhaps the most consdescending action of all, is declaring you are engaging in the work of a movement while in reality, you are astroturfing. Bonus irony points for acually declaring the opposition to be astroturfing when legitimate groups like the Tea Party pop up.

Seems President Obama has been begging for volunteers to call into radio talk shows.

It has a nice list of talking points... I mean discussion points which of course woud be proof of horrid things of Republicans engaged in making a list of talking points. Afterwards you can report your good deed, or perhaps your neighbor for being too fishy.

In some ways I feel sorry for Trumpy....he sees everything in terms of partisanship...if not Right it must be Left. I am a Repub and I am right (as in absolutely correct and justified) so Obama must be wrong.

What he cannot see is that both Left and Right, Dems and Repubs are part of the same system and it is the SYSTEM that is wrong.

Soon there will be a REAL movement against both the Left and Right positions (which are essentially the same thing anyway - particularly in the US) and I suppose at that point Trumpy's circuits will spark into overload and go into meltdown screaming 'does not compute...does not compute..."

I can't wait...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #278 of 334
2/28/10 at 4:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

In some ways I feel sorry for Trumpy....he sees everything in terms of partisanship...if not Right it must be Left. I am a Repub and I am right (as in absolutely correct and justified) so Obama must be wrong.

What he cannot see is that both Left and Right, Dems and Repubs are part of the same system and it is the SYSTEM that is wrong.

Soon there will be a REAL movement against both the Left and Right positions (which are essentially the same thing anyway - particularly in the US) and I suppose at that point Trumpy's circuits will spark into overload and go into meltdown screaming 'does not compute...does not compute..."

I can't wait...

I agree. (consulting talking point list) I too feel sorry for Trumpy. Partisanship is a bad things. My friend had partisanship and it gave him a very bad rash.

The system is the problem here and by that we mean the Constitution which we love and the Republican form of government that has been created by it. We need a real movement against the government by all soon but not too soon because that Mr. Obama is such a nice guy and has no detectable dialect and is very clean and articulate.

THanks you for your time. I hope you do not get a rash like my friends from teh partisanship.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #279 of 334
2/28/10 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

In some ways I feel sorry for Trumpy....he sees everything in terms of partisanship...if not Right it must be Left. I am a Repub and I am right (as in absolutely correct and justified) so Obama must be wrong.

What he cannot see is that both Left and Right, Dems and Repubs are part of the same system and it is the SYSTEM that is wrong.

Soon there will be a REAL movement against both the Left and Right positions (which are essentially the same thing anyway - particularly in the US) and I suppose at that point Trumpy's circuits will spark into overload and go into meltdown screaming 'does not compute...does not compute..."

I can't wait...

Sounds like you're advocating for some kind of tea party?
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #280 of 334
2/28/10 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Sounds like you're advocating for some kind of tea party?

Ok..yeah right....that's what I meant - you're spot on...well done...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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