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Apple among top 5 brick-and-mortar, online electronics stores

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Apple ranked in the top five electronics retailers in all of 2009, with both its brick-and-mortar retail stores and commercial Web site among the top revenue earners.

According to new data released by the NPD Group Wednesday, Apple came in fifth place among both physical store locations and for its online presence in total revenue in the U.S. Apple's retail stores ranked behind major stores Best Buy, Walmart, Staples and Target, respectively.

Online, Apple was again only behind some of the biggest names in sales. The top overall Web seller was Dell, followed by Amazon, Best Buy and HP, with Apple coming in fifth.

NPD based the rankings on tracked consumer technology revenue in 2009. Those products include IT, imaging, audio, video, and consumables. They exclude video game hardware and software, PC software and mobile phones.

In 2008, NPD found that Apple was the No. 5 brick-and-mortar retailer, and the No. 4 online retailer.

At the end of 2009, Apple had 283 stores in 10 countries. Last quarter alone, the average revenue per store was $7.1 million, with a record 50.9 million total visitors in the three-month holiday period.

In addition to being a booming business for Apple, the Cupertino, Calif., company's retail stores play an important role in attracting new users to the Mac platform. Apple's retail locations accounted for 689,000 Mac sales in the last quarter, and about half of those were to customers who had never owned a Mac before.

While Apple's retail business has been solid, NPD said the overall U.S. market fell almost 5 percent in 2009 to $106 billion. The lower revenue has been attributed to lower prices, rather than fewer purchases.

Sales also improved as the year progressed, dropping just 1.5 percent year over year in the fourth quarter. That was a big improvement from 2008, when sales dropped 7 percent over a year prior, NPD said.

"The industry lost ground this year but in light of the overall economic conditions it was a performance that could have been much worse," said Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis with NPD. "By retailers and manufacturers being aggressive on consumer electronics pricing that kept the consumer engaged and shopping, an important success story to remember in such a dismal year."

"Categories like computers and flat-panel TVs, despite very high selling prices, were able to see significant increases in unit volume through this tactic. The up-tick in fourth quarter results, while partly the result of a weak year-over-year comparison was also due to strong results from these categories, results that point to increased momentum as we head into 2010."

Future Apple brick-and-mortar stores could sport a new look, as the company is currently planning a "prototype" store to be built in Palo Alto, Calif. The new design calls for a store covered mostly by glass that would employ natural lighting and allow trees to grow inside.
post #2 of 43
Taste and service. Apple has both in spades.
post #3 of 43
Quote:
Future Apple brick-and-mortar stores could sport a new look, as the company is currently planning a "prototype" store to be built in Palo Alto, Calif. The new design calls for a store covered mostly by glass that would employ natural lighting and allow trees to grow inside.


A lot of Apple Stores are located in malls and other places that wouldn't allow such changes.

For instance at one Apple Store mall location, Apple had to remove a glowing Apple logo off the side of their store as the other tenants complained.


I think Apple would be better off spending the (upgrade) money and getting better return on investment by opening locations near business centers and providing solutions to corporations and enterprise that are so desperately crying out for anything better than Microsoft solutions.
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post #4 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I think Apple would be better off spending the money and getting better return on investment by opening locations near business centers and providing solutions to corporations and enterprise that are so desperately crying out for anything better than Microsoft solutions.

Gotta love the "this is what is wrong with Apple and this is how they should do things" posts. If they were failing in their retail efforts you might have a point but they seem to the highest grossing of all retailers per square foot, so I think it's safe to say that they are getting an excellent return on their investment.

Just in case you haven't noticed, Apple is primary a consumer-focused company. A store full of iPods and Macs aren't "corporations and enterprise solutions". If they do by iPhones and iPads they are buying in bulk through corporate channels, not a consumer B&M store. For the off chance that they do need to grab something from an Apple Store (and only an Apple Store) right away doesn't make a good argument for a consumer outlet to be built next to a corporation for their convenience.
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post #5 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

A lot of Apple Stores are located in malls and other places that wouldn't allow such changes.

For instance at one Apple Store mall location, Apple had to remove a glowing Apple logo off the side of their store as the other tenants complained.


I think Apple would be better off spending the money and getting better return on investment by opening locations near business centers and providing solutions to corporations and enterprise that are so desperately crying out for anything better than Microsoft solutions.

From what I can see they have retail locations near business centers. Should they be closed to the general public?
Cubist
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post #6 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gotta love the "this is what is wrong with Apple and this is how they should do things" posts. If they were failing in their retail efforts you might have a point but they seem to the highest grossing of all retailers per square foot, so I think it's safe to say that they are getting an excellent return on their investment.

Just in case you haven't noticed, Apple is primary a consumer-focused company. A store full of iPods and Macs aren't "corporations and enterprise solutions". If they do by iPhones and iPads they are buying in bulk through corporate channels, not a consumer B&M store. For the off chance that they do need to grab something from an Apple Store (and only an Apple Store) right away doesn't make a good argument for a consumer outlet to be built next to a corporation for their convenience.




Misquote and misrepresent what I said, suggest I said Apple is a failure to rally support, now all you need is add a "your ignorant" or "stupid" for my suggesting Apple provide their superior solutions to business markets in addition to the consumer market and that would seal the deal.

(reprieve)
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post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

A lot of Apple Stores are located in malls and other places that wouldn't allow such changes.

For instance at one Apple Store mall location, Apple had to remove a glowing Apple logo off the side of their store as the other tenants complained.


I think Apple would be better off spending the money and getting better return on investment by opening locations near business centers and providing solutions to corporations and enterprise that are so desperately crying out for anything better than Microsoft solutions.

Another WTF?? post by MacTripper.

Do you ever consider what you type before you hit "submit reply"?

If you have a problem with people misquoting you, then you need to write clearly.

Apple would be better off

Are you sure? Because it doesn't get much better than what they're doing now. Or are you onto something that Apple has somehow mysteriously missed? LOL

Back on the ignore list you go.

I'm sure he's quite devastated by this news.
post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

From what I can see they have retail locations near business centers. Should they be closed to the general public?

In the U.S. they are located in high volume, trendy retail locations.

Perhaps its different in other parts of the world.
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post #9 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


I think Apple would be better off spending the money and getting better return on investment by opening locations near business centers and providing solutions to corporations and enterprise that are so desperately crying out for anything better than Microsoft solutions.

[CENTER]Apple is seldom at the forefront when it comes to technology implementation, thereby making their products far less capable than the competition.

Introducing products intentionally 'crippled' by excluding industry standard features (media card readers, numeric keypads, USB ports, HDMI out, BluRay drives, latest/fastest CPUs, eta al) often makes them rather unappealing to the serious electronics/business consumer.

Apple's doing very well catering to the least intellectually adept consumer by offering limited, so simple even a 2 year old can use, electronic appliances with as few options as possible, so I don't see them changing anytime soon.
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

...my suggesting Apple provide their superior solutions to business markets...

Perhaps "you would be better off" If you would have made an argument for Apple by focusing on the Enterprise instead of a comment stating "opening locations near business centers" and doing in a thread about B&M retail stores. \

The simple fact is that WIndows will never EVER be threatened by Mac OS X as long as buying a Mac is the only way to get the OS. If Apple won't do this for their server version of Snow Leopard then you can be assured they aren't going to do this for their Mac version, hence Apple's foray into the Enterprise will be limited to a few Macs and a bunch of iPhones, but nothing major.
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post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Perhaps "you would be better off" If you would have made an argument for Apple by focusing on the Enterprise instead of a comment stating "opening locations near business centers" and doing in a thread about B&M retail stores. \

It's relevant, B&M stores include locations near business centers and other high traffic business areas.


Quote:
The simple fact is that WIndows will never EVER be threatened by Mac OS X as long as buying a Mac is the only way to get the OS. If Apple won't do this for their server version of Snow Leopard then you can be assured they aren't going to do this for their Mac version, hence Apple's foray into the Enterprise will be limited to a few Macs and a bunch of iPhones, but nothing major.


Not really, businesses buy solutions and their Windows crap is buggy, inferior and costs plenty to keep up and contributes to losses.

If Apple had a better business solutions segment augmenting their successful retail operations, I think they would do very well.

And they won't need retail locations near business areas neither, just a office or small warehouses.
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post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]
Apple's doing very well catering to the least intellectually adept consumer
[/CENTER]

Apple consumers tend to be in the highest income-earning brackets. That often means professionals with degrees or advanced degrees.

Here are some fun things to consider

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl.../07/16/1426250

http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/35130.html

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-943519.html

Those who surf the Web using a Mac tend to be better educated and make more money than their PC-using counterparts, according to a report from Nielsen/NetRatings.

And of course, my lovely sig, courtesy of Paul Thurrott, "Mr. Windows" himself:

Mac OS users have made a conscious technology choice and are therefore typically better informed than their peers. -- Paul Thurrott, winsupersite.com, December 06, 2004

http://mytechnews.info/b/2009/06/app...-affluent.html

The appleinsider website reports on a study published by Forrester Research which examines the user demographics of smartphone users, with a focus on Apple’s iPhones. Before proceeding, it has to be mentioned that the iPhones in the research were first generation iPhones and not the current crop of the iPhone3G. It was a time when the original iPhone was more expensive compared to today’s pricing, so as we see the price of iPhones falling, the penetration of the iPhone should be even greater.

Basically, the conclusions of the research were that iPhone users were:

wealthier
more educated
accessing the internet more frequently using their phones compared to other smartphone users
bigger spenders on mobile services
younger


Do you think it's "intellectually adept" to centre-align all of your posts?

Typography, typography.
post #13 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Taste and service. Apple has both in spades.

So does Starbucks.

To me the best thing about the Apple stores is that you yourself can try out the equipment unlike anywhere else.
post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

So does Starbucks.

Sure. What's your point?
post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Introducing products intentionally 'crippled' by excluding industry standard features (media card readers, numeric keypads, USB ports, HDMI out, BluRay drives, latest/fastest CPUs, eta al) often makes them rather unappealing to the serious electronics/business consumer.

What are most business owners going to do with HDMI out and BlueRay? External BlueRay drives (and all the other things you mentioned) are available for the Mac BTW through third party offerings.

Quote:
Apple's doing very well catering to the least intellectually adept consumer by offering limited, so simple even a 2 year old can use, electronic appliances with as few options as possible, so I don't see them changing anytime soon.

Apple does tend to cater to the consumer market better which includes family and children who need a little extra security and hand holding.

Mac's are not exactly child's toys, I run several other operating systems on my Mac too.

I see the business market being a great opportunity for Apple to expand into with their superior solutions.

It would require a different product line, even making POS devices perhaps, and the opening of offices and non-retail type locations within high business market locations.

Shouldn't interfere with their retail operations or product lines at all.
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post #16 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

so simple even a 2 year old can use,
[/CENTER]

Which is actually the ideal.
post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Sure. What's your point?

My next line Quad, in that there's more than that that's appealing- IMHO!
post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Which is actually the ideal.

[CENTER]Sometimes reading posts on the internet makes me cringe for the future...

[CENTER]Idiocracy[/CENTER] (2006)

(Sadly... proof that life does appear to imitate (even questionable) art).[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Apple is seldom at the forefront when it comes to technology implementation, thereby making their products far less capable than the competition.

Introducing products intentionally 'crippled' by excluding industry standard features (media card readers, numeric keypads, USB ports, HDMI out, BluRay drives, latest/fastest CPUs, eta al) often makes them rather unappealing to the serious electronics/business consumer.

Apple's doing very well catering to the least intellectually adept consumer by offering limited, so simple even a 2 year old can use, electronic appliances with as few options as possible, so I don't see them changing anytime soon.
[/CENTER]

Seriously, here I was all set to launch the proverbial - "let's get this out of the way: Apple suxxors: hardwarez r unl33t n stoopid n peeps who use them r cloolezz tools with tiny brainz cuz we r the l33test with the l33test hardwarez We r all open softwarez n building hardwarez wit bray n megaportz n 4 keyboardz with numberz, n ovrclocked AMDz cuz Intel suxxors n HDMI n buzzwerds I ain't even thgouht of yetz!." And DaHarder stole my commentary - almost to the letter. That just sucks. On the other hand we haven't really heard any commentary from the the Studly Techness, so one waits with bated breath.

Seriously DaHarder, wtf does intellectuality have to do with any of your previous points other than a higher point score in Scrabble? Your posting demonstrates clearly the opposite of intellectualism, and screams neo-Luddite who cannot fathom using a machine that doesn't require the pulling of at least seven levers, twisting of countless knobs and decyphering binary off the blinky lights. Give. It. Up. My seven year old read your post giggled, shook his head and walked away chanting DIN-O-SAUR!
post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

Seriously, here I was all set to launch the proverbial - "let's get this out of the way: Apple suxxors: hardwarez r unl33t n stoopid n peeps who use them r cloolezz tools with tiny brainz cuz we r the l33test with the l33test hardwarez We r all open softwarez n building hardwarez wit bray n megaportz n 4 keyboardz with numberz, n ovrclocked AMDz cuz Intel suxxors n HDMI n buzzwerds I ain't even thgouht of yetz!." And DaHarder stole my commentary - almost to the letter. That just sucks. On the other hand we haven't really heard any commentary from the the Studly Techness, so one waits with bated breath.

Seriously DaHarder, wtf does intellectuality have to do with any of your previous points other than a higher point score in Scrabble? Your posting demonstrates clearly the opposite of intellectualism, and screams neo-Luddite who cannot fathom using a machine that doesn't require the pulling of at least seven levers, twisting of countless knobs and decyphering binary off the blinky lights.

Give. It. Up. My seven year old read your post giggled, shook his head and walked away chanting DIN-O-SAUR!

[CENTER]There's a fine line that separates exaggeration and flat out lying, and you clearly stand on the wrong side of said line.

Have A Nice Day[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #21 of 43
So far, Apple has deftly managed to defy the (inevitable) low margin/low growth curse of the b-&-m retail industry. However, I do worry about how long that can last, at the rate that Apple is growing it's physical retail presence.

Perceptions on this can turn on a dime. And, although leases keep 'hard' assets off the balance sheet (making the financial ratios look good), at the end of the day, these are de facto long-term liabilities for Apple -- i.e., they represent contractual obligation to pay fixed sums of money, just like debt.
post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

So far, Apple has deftly managed to defy the (inevitable) low margin/low growth curse of the b-&-m retail industry. However, I do worry about how long that can last, at the rate that Apple is growing it's physical retail presence.

Perceptions on this can turn on a dime. And, although leases keep 'hard' assets off the balance sheet (making the financial ratios look good), at the end of the day, these are de facto long-term liabilities for Apple -- i.e., they represent contractual obligation to pay fixed sums of money, just like debt.

Eventually they will plateau and eventually stores will close. Either from a drop in interest for various reasons or the upscale area is no longer upscale, thus reducing traffic flow. There could even be a lack of lease renewals, but unless the owner is selling the property off for new development that seems unlikely as all sigs point to Apple acting much like an anchor store due to additional traffic it seems to bring into an area.

They also have the problem of new stores now likely being built in areas with less overall traffic than before, though won't always be the case.

I think they have been very smart about their growth and have increased stores with a delicate hand. The number of stores they have is still quite low despite Apple's growth, and despite the amount of growth that can be attributed directly to the Apple Store's existence. I think it's safe to say that many new Mac owners wouldn't have given a Mac a 2nd thought if they could not get hands on with them. Best Buy and CompUSA simply don't cut it.

I see your point about the debt but I think is more of an initial fear that is long gone from the equation. I think they could drop a significant percentage of their store revenue and it would still be worthwhile.
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post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Sometimes reading posts on the internet makes me cringe for the future...

[CENTER]Idiocracy[/CENTER] (2006)

(Sadly... proof that life does appear to imitate (even questionable) art).[/CENTER]

The problem here is that you have a base assumption that is different from Quadra's.

When he says "that's the ideal," he probably means what the rest of us mean which is that the ideal would be a computer a 2 year old can operate ... that does all the same things a "regular" or "old fashioned" computer does. You on the other hand seem to assume that said computer is just functionally limited. If a computer does everything the consumer needs it to do and is so simple to operate a 2 year old could do it, that's a well designed device. The fact that your (theoretically) more complicated, more "open" computer could *potentially* do other things as well is completely irrelevant.

Your being a technological elitist here. You're having a good time making fun of people and posing as someone so smart they don't have to explain themselves properly, when in fact you are missing the obvious due to your extensive biases.

It also doesn't help to call other people out as "idiots" when you are posting in rhymes and riddles, and using centred text. You might as well change your handle to "LookAtMe" or "ThinkImSmarterThanYou." Maybe you should climb down off that high horse you are on.
post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Sometimes reading posts on the internet makes me cringe for the future...

[CENTER]Idiocracy[/CENTER] (2006)

(Sadly... proof that life does appear to imitate (even questionable) art).[/CENTER]

[RIGHT]Kinda lost you there, pal! A bit too obtuse, even by your standards. [/RIGHT]
post #25 of 43
Now that the MS knock-off store has been open a while, I'd like to see if it has closed yet!

Has anyone been to that store? Who goes there?

Of course I'm not interested in it, but like at a car accident, I can't help but be curious.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
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post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

Now that the MS knock-off store has been open a while, I'd like to see if it has closed yet!

Has anyone been to that store? Who goes there?

Of course I'm not interested in it, but like at a car accident, I can't help but be curious.

i'd love to see how it's doing too...any scottsdale arizona residents in the forum?
post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

[RIGHT]Kinda lost you there, pal! A bit too obtuse, even by your standards. [/RIGHT]

[CENTER]Mr. I-Need-Attention-So-I-Center-Justify-My-Posts...[/CENTER]
[RIGHT]...is referring to the movie Idocracy from 2006.[/RIGHT]
The whole movie is pretty bad, but the intro is pretty good...

http://www.livevideo.com/video/1EFA0...acy-intro.aspx
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

Now that the MS knock-off store has been open a while, I'd like to see if it has closed yet!

I thought they opened a 2nd store.

edit: 2nd store opened a week late in CA. Both appear to be opened. If I were going to buy a PC I'd consider one of those stores if I were in the area because they come with no crapware installed, save for Windows.
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post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The problem here is that you have a base assumption that is different from Quadra's.

Maybe you should climb down off that high horse you are on.

[CENTER]Conversely...

Maybe you (among numerous others) should follow suit.

As for Apple's 5th position - Congrats!

Have A Nice Day[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Conversely...

Maybe you (among numerous others) should follow suit.

As for Apple's 5th position - Congrats!

Have A Nice Day[/CENTER]

5th position in what?
post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


Do you think it's "intellectually adept" to centre-align all of your posts?

Typography, typography.

The only thing dumber is a resignation done as twitter haiku.
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The only thing dumber is a resignation done as twitter haiku.

Hehe, so true!
post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

i'd love to see how it's doing too...any scottsdale arizona residents in the forum?

No, but here in Mission Viejo, CA.

I was embarrassed for MS this last Sunday. M.V. Mall has both Apple and MS stores, and they are about 5 stores between them. Apple store was like they always are on the weeks ends, packed. Wandered down to the MS store, 6 adults(3 at the service counter) and 5 kids play video games, this store is probably 50% bigger then Apples store and it looked so empty. Good thing the staff wears different colored T-shirts otherwise, the nobody home would have been even more embarrassing. When you walk into the store you can see the problem, the staff doesn't care, how could they with all the different hard ware manufacturers that they are trying to push, it looked just like Circuit City before they closed their stores.

To top it off, out front MS has set up some very big display's with video games running, 4 of MS staff were playing video games, with a bunch of kids watching. Can someone tell me the purpose of this?

craig
post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by craignpb View Post

No, but here in Mission Viejo, CA.

I was embarrassed for MS this last Sunday. M.V. Mall has both Apple and MS stores, and they are about 5 stores between them. Apple store was like they always are on the weeks ends, packed. Wandered down to the MS store, 6 adults(3 at the service counter) and 5 kids play video games, this store is probably 50% bigger then Apples store and it looked so empty. Good thing the staff wears different colored T-shirts otherwise, the nobody home would have been even more embarrassing. When you walk into the store you can see the problem, the staff doesn't care, how could they with all the different hard ware manufacturers that they are trying to push, it looked just like Circuit City before they closed their stores.

To top it off, out front MS has set up some very big display's with video games running, 4 of MS staff were playing video games, with a bunch of kids watching. Can someone tell me the purpose of this?

craig

What hardware does Microsoft sell in their store compared to the number of hardware sold in Apple's? Maybe therein lies your answer?
post #34 of 43
Apple's influence on technology, media and telecommunication has somewhat overshadowed it's influence on retail but Apple has really transformed the retail industry and it proved a lot of naysayers wrong about what can and what can't work.
post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]There's a fine line that separates exaggeration and flat out lying, and you clearly stand on the wrong side of said line.

Have A Nice Day[/CENTER]

Too true DaHarder he is eighteen and he said some other things not quite so complimentary. My bad for turning derisive insults into a humorous anecdote.
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

[CENTER]Mr. I-Need-Attention-So-Center-Justify-My-Posts...[/CENTER]
[RIGHT]...is referring to the movie Idocracy from 2006.[/RIGHT]
The whole movie is pretty bad, but the intro is pretty good...
http://www.livevideo.com/video/1EFA0...acy-intro.aspx

Thanks!
post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

i'd love to see how it's doing too...any scottsdale arizona residents in the forum?

i live in Scottsdale/Fountain Hills and I didn't know there was an MS store here!
post #38 of 43
The article forums on AI are deteriorating rapidly. It seems that most of the replies on this thread are from trolls, or people replying to their posts. Mods, you guys need to nip this in the bud; as it stands right now, the trolls are succeeding in turning these forums into a collective cesspool.

post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]
Apple's doing very well catering to the least intellectually adept consumer by offering limited, so simple even a 2 year old can use, electronic appliances with as few options as possible, so I don't see them changing anytime soon.
[/CENTER]

That seems to be their new strategy. And lots of folks are cheering them on with it.

The question in my mind is whether they will abandon their high end customers totally. Don't they make some high end Mac desktops with good performance? Will they abandon that market in favor of limited-ability stuff?
post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

If Apple had a better business solutions segment augmenting their successful retail operations, I think they would do very well.


Didn't they try that during the Scully years and almost go bankrupt?
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