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Amazon may compete with Apple iPad by giving away free Kindles - Page 2

post #41 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:43am
Looks like they finally found a way to sell the Kindle.

This way there's no reason why you want to get other eBooks readers. And with Amazon Prime, you'll buy even more things from Amazon.

It's hard to imagine the backlash from angry Kindle owners who paid full price, but it's not like the Kindle never had a price drop twice in 3 months.
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post #42 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:45am
"The company recently purchased millions of Kindles, but has not given an exact number."

Amazon is buying Kindles?
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post #43 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

If Amazon doesn't already have a name for this promotion, I suggest "Rekindle."

Or maybe that's too honest.

Or maybe "Kindling" - because that is all it might end up being in the end.
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post #44 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

I just hope the iPad makes Amazon lower prices on the Kindle. The DX is nearly the same price with a fraction of the functionality, surely this will pressure them to lower the price.

Nod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

If Amazon doesn't already have a name for this promotion, I suggest "Rekindle."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I am an Amazon Prime subscriber and don't currently own a Kindle. I welcome this news...

How many free readers would Amazon give away I wonder. Aren't there a lot of Prime subscribers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizz View Post

Get ready for a flood of Kindles on eBay.



I'd buy one from eBay, to subscribe to newspapers.

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Originally Posted by jdlink View Post

I sense a paradigm shift in the ebook reader market.

Give away the reader, sell the e-books?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

As an Amazon Prime member, I wonder if I can get a free Kindle, sell it, and subsidize the price of the iPad I fully intend to purchase?



Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidm77 View Post

If Amazon is going to go down this road of giving away physical objects for free, they should be ready to deal with any anti-trust problems that arise. ... selling them for less than the cost to make them (or giving them away) to stave off competition is usually againt the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

This is quite a clever idea by Amazon....
Give away the Kindle and rival manufacturers (who don't have their own ebook stores to help subsidize costs) will not be able to compete. ...

"Loss leader" is probably the concept here, you're right though, giveaways are done with software (eg, Google gives away everything for free) but hardware-wise I can't think of free giveaways to "sell razors," so to speak. I don't think it's illegal however.
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post #45 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:48am
...this would have been kind of cool news. But now that I've gotten a flavor of the iPad, the Kindle seems like an antique. I'd take a Kindle, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't be particularly excited about it at this point.
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post #46 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods? \

Interesting point. One of the reasons why I got my 13" MacBook Pro from Amazon in July is because they threw in an 8GB iPod touch for free. Of course, since I already had an iPhone 3GS I sold the iPod on eBay to bring down the purchase price of the MBP.

But I guess whenever Apple gives stuff away, it's fine. When Amazon does it, it's "sad"
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post #47 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

...Amazon does not really care if you are reading on a Kindle, an iPhone/iPad or a Mac/PC as long as you buy your ebooks from Amazon.

Yeah, that's why Amazon has positioned their Kindle front and center when you go to Amazon.com
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post #48 of 98
2/12/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods? \

Back To School season.
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post #49 of 98
2/12/10 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Correct. Amazon does not need to sell Kindles to make money selling eBooks. I think they will be satisfied to sell content to iPad owners. Hell, they might make more profit selling iPads through their store than they currently make designing, building, advertising, and selling Kindles.

You're missing the point.

Saying Amazon can generate more earnings from iPad sales than kindle sales ignores the fact that Amazon's future eBook sales is strongly dependent on a large and growing installed base of kindles.

No cows, no milk.

Even if Amazon figured out a way to go around Apple and sell eBooks for the iPad, that would not be as user-friendly and would not knock a dent in Apple's own bookstore.
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post #50 of 98
2/12/10 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

...this would have been kind of cool news. But now that I've gotten a flavor of the iPad, the Kindle seems like an antique. I'd take a Kindle, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't be particularly excited about it at this point.

I never understood the appeal of eReaders. But I've been reading books on pocketable devices since the mid or late 1990's, so maybe I'm an exception.

I've read several novels on my iPhone so far, and before that, my Treo, and before that, my Sony Clie.

The dedicated ereader hardware never appealed to me or even made sense to me at the prices that are charged for them.
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post #51 of 98
2/12/10 at 12:16pm
Well.....when b&n give out free nooks then i might consider....but until that day iPad rules
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post #52 of 98
2/12/10 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porchland View Post

You're missing the point.

Saying Amazon can generate more earnings from iPad sales than kindle sales ignores the fact that Amazon's future eBook sales is strongly dependent on a large and growing installed base of kindles.

No cows, no milk.

Even if Amazon figured out a way to go around Apple and sell eBooks for the iPad, that would not be as user-friendly and would not knock a dent in Apple's own bookstore.

As has been pointed out several times, there are Kindle reader applications for numerous platforms other than the Kindle itself. The dependence of future eBook sales on the kindle installed base is debatable. Amazon's music store seems to be doing just fine, largely because they understood the dominance of the iTunes/iPod system and made their online music downloads easy to integrate. I expect the situation with eBooks will be similar. Amazon is happy to have a symbiotic relationship with Apple (and other PC and ereader companies). As far as knocking a dent in Apple's own bookstore, remember that selling hardware is Apple's main concern. They operate the iTunes store at just above break-even. If Amazon sells more eBooks than Apple, Apple won't care, as long as they sell plenty of iPads, iPhones, iPod touches, and Macs.
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post #53 of 98
2/12/10 at 1:13pm
That within a day of the iPad announcement, Kindle sales fell through the floor; Christmas buying season was over, unwanted kindles bought as gifts were filtering back as returned merchandise and amazon had just dropped money on a couple of million of those suckers--don't forget their inventory fiasco a few years back, when everyone wanted one for christmas but they didn't have them in stock to sell--I'd be surprised if their inventory control is the best planned part of their operations

so there they are sitting on a boatload of devices that are--as of last month--viewed by most as obsolete--so you can read one for 300 hours without recharging--big deal; most of us would trade a shorter battery for colour any day; shareholders ain't gonna be too happy when reports filter back about three million white elephants at $150 a pop are they?--so Amazon gives them away and looks good for another quarter until it becomes obvious that their ebook store is losing ground to the new kid in town
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post #54 of 98
2/12/10 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Back To School season.

Apple is targeting a specific segment -- back to schoolers.
Amazon is targeting a specific segment -- Amazon Prime members.

I don't see what makes Amazon's attempt "sad" as Quadra 610 said. It's not like Amazon would be giving them away to everyone.
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post #55 of 98
2/12/10 at 2:56pm
Oh gosh, a free single-purpose cripple chained to heavily DRMd Amazon-only content, with an ugly monochrome e-ink display that requires an external light source, and which offers no WiFi, only a dedicated 3GS connection that will talk only to Amazon!

At least Amazon and I now agree on what the Kindle is worth.
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post #56 of 98
2/12/10 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

As has been pointed out several times, there are Kindle reader applications for numerous platforms other than the Kindle itself. The dependence of future eBook sales on the kindle installed base is debatable. Amazon's music store seems to be doing just fine, largely because they understood the dominance of the iTunes/iPod system and made their online music downloads easy to integrate. I expect the situation with eBooks will be similar. Amazon is happy to have a symbiotic relationship with Apple (and other PC and ereader companies). As far as knocking a dent in Apple's own bookstore, remember that selling hardware is Apple's main concern. They operate the iTunes store at just above break-even. If Amazon sells more eBooks than Apple, Apple won't care, as long as they sell plenty of iPads, iPhones, iPod touches, and Macs.

Got to say I agree with you there quinney. Most people forget that Apple is in the hardware business and the best way to sell hardware is to make it run seamlessly with the software. Apple have always said that most people have a minimum of purchased iTunes songs on their iPods - the majority of music is from peoples personal collections with an emphasis on open formats (i.e mp4/mp3). This is because single format platforms like Atrac players never go anywhere - I'm looking at you Sony!!

The iTunes Music Store is just a nice bonus and while iTunes milestones are good for publicity (ten gazillion sold!) the real emphasis is on the hardware/software combination because that is where the money is.
People could get their music/movie consumables from Martians for all Apple care.
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..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
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post #57 of 98
2/12/10 at 3:19pm
How is giving away a previously $400+ device not sad? And how does that compare to Apple giving away their low end iPod touch with a $1000+ purchase?
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post #58 of 98
2/12/10 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

How is giving away a previously $400+ device not sad? And how does that compare to Apple giving away their low end iPod touch with a $1000+ purchase?

How is a carrier subsidizing the price of a mobile phone with a service contract not sad?
Please don't be insane.
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post #59 of 98
2/12/10 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Oh gosh, a free single-purpose cripple chained to heavily DRMd Amazon-only content, with an ugly monochrome e-ink display that requires an external light source, and which offers no WiFi, only a dedicated 3GS connection that will talk only to Amazon!

The iPod started out as a single purpose device chained to heavily DRMd Apple-only content and most iPods do not have WiFi.

Even today, despite offering the multi-function iPod touch, Apple still sells large numbers of iPod nanos. Not everyone wants to pay the extra to get a multi-function device.

If all you want is an e-book reader then why would you spend at least $499 on a iPad when you can get a Kindle for $259 and competitors e-book readers for even less?
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post #60 of 98
2/12/10 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

How is giving away a previously $400+ device not sad?

More important, how is it not predatory pricing?
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post #61 of 98
2/12/10 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

More important, how is it not predatory pricing?

Who are they trying to run out of business? Do they have any prospect of succeeding?
Please don't be insane.
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post #62 of 98
2/12/10 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

The iPod started out as a single purpose device chained to heavily DRMd Apple-only content and most iPods do not have WiFi.

wtf are you talking about, I never put any Apple content on an iPod.

The iPod was introduced on 2001, the itunes music store was introduced in 2003. Are you saying that between 2001 and 2003 those iPods were basically playing white noise?
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post #63 of 98
2/12/10 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

wtf are you talking about, I never put any Apple content on an iPod.

The iPod was introduced on 2001, the itunes music store was introduced in 2003. Are you saying that between 2001 and 2003 those iPods were basically playing white noise?

I am saying that many of the negative comments that certain people are making about the Kindle could have been applied to the iPod. Not everyone needs a multi-function device. Being a single function device did not stop the iPod.
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post #64 of 98
2/12/10 at 5:45pm
This is hilarious, Amazon is so shook (scared) it is amazing. First they buy a company that does similar tech as the ipad and now this. Apple really made them blink.

This is like Verizon and Blackberry offering free phoned with the purchase of a phone, then some in the media say how th iPhone is being outsold. Ys, easy to outsell apple when you give away free phones.

"Hey Amazon... BOO!!!!" Apple is coming and you better run. Funny stuff.
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post #65 of 98
2/12/10 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Amazon is clearly scared to death of Apple and scared to death of losing Kindle hardware sales. I guess thats why they released the software to most of the world so you don't even have to buy an Kindle.

I swear members on this forum actually think they are informed.

"Neither version requires that you own a Kindle in order to download books"

Damn they are scared to death.

Actually they are scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why would anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.
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post #66 of 98
2/12/10 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Who are they trying to run out of business? Do they have any prospect of succeeding?

There is no one else who is as big as Amazon in the ebook business, at the moment. If reports are to be believed, they have a lion's share of the market.

It therefore seems like an attempt to prevent new entrants from coming in by using pricing as a weapon.

I have no trouble at all if they want to price it at, say, marginal cost (or some cost). But pricing at zero? That does not make sense to me (unless they can show that they have carrier-type monthly fee agreements, which I doubt).
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post #67 of 98
2/12/10 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

Actually they at scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.

He's conveniently only looking at the HW and OS apps while ignoring that fact that Amazon changed their pricing model to match Apple's App Store as a preventive strike before Apple officially announced the iPad and iBookstore. Everything they've done from changing rates after bullying publishers for 2 years, to stating an SDK is coming, to buying a touchscreen company, and to this giveaway for premium customers is all reactionary tactics.

I think their next move will be a Kindle price drop. a week or two before the iPad hits. Possibly even some nifty vapourware mockups in an attempt to keep buyers focused on Amazon. Par for the course.
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post #68 of 98
2/12/10 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post
Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods?

Interesting point...I guess whenever Apple gives stuff away, it's fine. When Amazon does it, it's "sad"

Apple does it as an annual event, not a one-time deal and they do it to get rid of old inventory to make room for new products. Also, they do it as a marketing reason, not to compete with or stop people from buying a competitors device, they already have market share. Amazon is doing as last ditch effort to grow their numbers and keep people using the Kindle. You really can't compare the two initiatives.
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post #69 of 98
2/12/10 at 8:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickmyface View Post

Console makers are not making "real" money except Nintendo. Microsoft and Sony game divisions are still a long long ways away from recouping their initial investments. I also can't think of any other industry that sells hardware at a discount in order to sell software, can you? The PC industry is based on hardware sales.

Ink Jet printer manufacturers are infamous for doing this and its about as firm a lock as one can get.
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post #70 of 98
2/12/10 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods? \

Clearing inventory :-D
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post #71 of 98
2/12/10 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

There is no one else who is as big as Amazon in the ebook business, at the moment. If reports are to be believed, they have a lion's share of the market.

It therefore seems like an attempt to prevent new entrants from coming in by using pricing as a weapon.

I have no trouble at all if they want to price it at, say, marginal cost (or some cost). But pricing at zero? That does not make sense to me (unless they can show that they have carrier-type monthly fee agreements, which I doubt).

True, up to a point -- but predatory pricing is a pretty specific concept, not just being aggressive in a market. In order to show that pricing is predatory, it has to be proven that competition in a market has been harmed, or is likely to be harmed. It has to be a sustained effort clearly designed to force a competitor out or keep one from getting in. It's a very difficult claim to prove. If it wasn't, then just about every "two for the price of one" promotion could be called predatory pricing.

I'm sure as far as Apple is concerned, they're happy to let Amazon do their worst. Apple has already signaled their intentions to be as aggressive in pricing as they need to be.
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post #72 of 98
2/12/10 at 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEKSTUD View Post

Well what do you call it when Apple gives away free iPods? \

A miracle.
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post #73 of 98
2/13/10 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

Apple does it as an annual event, not a one-time deal and they do it to get rid of old inventory to make room for new products. Also, they do it as a marketing reason, not to compete with or stop people from buying a competitors device, they already have market share. Amazon is doing as last ditch effort to grow their numbers and keep people using the Kindle. You really can't compare the two initiatives.

Amazon would be giving out the older, smaller screen kindle -- clearing out inventory so to speak.
The Kindle already is in control of the market, the iPad hasn't even been released yet.
Amazon's kindle offer would be only available to Prime subscribers, the free iPods are available to just during the back-to-school time period.

In addition, why do you guys even care what Amazon does. AI has already deemed the iPad a monster that will crush the kindle, so what does it matter what Amazon does?
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post #74 of 98
2/13/10 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

In addition, why do you guys even care what Amazon does. AI has already deemed the iPad a monster that will crush the kindle, so what does it matter what Amazon does?

Likely for the same reason you are on this forum involved in the discussion. You are interested in technology and technology companies. I'm an investor in Amazon so that gives me extra reason, but I had an initial interest in them long before i invested.
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post #75 of 98
2/13/10 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

...predatory pricing is a pretty specific concept...it has to be proven that competition in a market has been harmed, or is likely to be harmed...

I'm sure as far as Apple is concerned, they're happy to let Amazon do their worst. Apple has already signaled their intentions to be as aggressive in pricing as they need to be.

"Amazon.com keeps 65% of the revenue from all ebook sales."

Remaining 35% is split between the author and publisher, net of refunds, bad debt, and taxes. (See Amazon Terms sec. 5.4.1 Royalties)

Amazon can AFFORD to give away Kindles at the distribution rates they charge. Apple OTOH can give larger royalties. Authors, authors, authors...
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post #76 of 98
2/13/10 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

"Amazon.com keeps 65% of the revenue from all ebook sales."

Remaining 35% is split between the author and publisher, net of refunds, bad debt, and taxes. (See Amazon Terms sec. 5.4.1 Royalties)

Amazon can AFFORD to give away Kindles at the distribution rates they charge. Apple OTOH can give larger royalties. Authors, authors, authors...

That is only for self-publications. Just prior to the iPad's unveiling Amazon changed their eBook charges to a 30/70 split, favouring the publishers, to match the App Store.
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post #77 of 98
2/13/10 at 10:19am
Yes, and if I understand it correctly, Amazon is only extending their "free Kindle" offer to their best book buyers, so it's not like they have plans to blanket the world with free product in an effort to keep Apple out of their market. Pretty clearly what they are attempting to do is get a firmer toehold in the e-book market in the face of the coming competition.

Which brings up another point. Why did Apple announce the iPad so far in advance of a shipping product? Seems they did Amazon among others a big favor, giving them a couple of months to adjust their market strategies ahead of the release. The only other time I can recall Apple doing this was with the iPhone.
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post #78 of 98
2/13/10 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Which brings up another point. Why did Apple announce the iPad so far in advance of a shipping product? Seems they did Amazon among others a big favor, giving them a couple of months to adjust their market strategies ahead of the release. The only other time I can recall Apple doing this was with the iPhone.

A few ideas...

It's better to control unveiling than have it leak from other sources If they felt they couldn't keep it bottled it anymore. The rumours were so rampant and mirroring the pre-iPhone buzz that it was obvious it was coming.

If they are trying to get more publishers on-board they would need to show the device's capabilities and the publishers they have signed. Recall that Jobs showed the AppleTV (as iTV) in September 2006, didn't demo it until January 2007 (before the iPhone demo) and it started shipping in March. I think this was clearly designed to get movie studios on-board by seeing a real device and gauging the public's interest.

To get developers working on making iPad apps. The App Store is a success and has helped solidifying the iPhone's position in the market. I think this is the strongest of the reasons I've given.

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post #79 of 98
2/13/10 at 11:03am
Good thoughts. I tend to like the second one best myself. Apple designed the iPad to run all existing iPhone/touch software and the transition to the larger display seems to be relatively easy for developers to implement, so I think they could well have gotten along with seeding a few key developers under an NDA and letting everyone else catch up once it was released. The way they have done this is a bit risky -- the developers currently working with the new SDK are doing so blind, since they can't test their software on an actual iPad.
Please don't be insane.
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post #80 of 98
2/13/10 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

Actually they are scared, why else would they buy a company that can compete with the iPad tech and do this free Kindle giveaway? Yes, you can download e-books from Amazon on many platforms, but that is part of their fear. If a lot of people start buying iPads and buying from Apples iBooks store then a lot fewer are buying Kindles AND a lot fewer are buying from Amazon - hence Amazon is not making any money off those former iPod touch, iPhone, PC etc buyers. Lastly, even if Amazon has a Kindle app for the iPad why would anyone buy a b/w book from them if you can buy a full color book from Apple esp if that book has photos or color graphics? There's your fear = declining sales on two fronts.

Actually they are not. Clearly they could care less about the hardware as long as users still continue to buy the content through Amazon. If they were scared they would keep the Kindle software closed. In fact the only company that I know that is scared of opening their software is Apple because they know their hardware sales would drop like a rock.
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