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MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series - Page 6

post #201 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post


Anyway, too much information overload on Windows mobile 7.

Maybe for the typical iPhone user, but for the rest of us, this amount of information is easily digested.
post #202 of 449
While some things bother me about their approach, the live home screen includes some new ideas that have real merit. I would hope that Apple can implement some of this, but as an option. (Who knows, perhaps its an option for this windows version too, can't say yet.)

Not so crazy about their typographic implementation. Ok, so baby boomers have tired eyes but too much real estate is being given to some of these headers ... Also, it is so freaky to have the type so large and index word so long that it goes off the screen, even if you can figure out the word, it's just not working for me. That was prominent on the Zune.

Microsoft has been upping its game in terms of UI and graphical niceties, and seems to be trying to not outright copy Apple, (unlike the Samsung example). Bing is may be too cluttered but it is pretty in its way, certainly playful and head and shoulders above anything I've seen from them ... ever.
post #203 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Frankly, the Zune has turned out worse than partnering with Windows Media licensees. It certainly doesn't make a profit for Microsoft, whereas Windows media licenses did. Except the problem was that the iPod was just such a unique product that nothing else on the market had, which was the UI. That's all that matters... well that and the way it integrates with the hardware. But some manufacturers on Android have caught up in the hardware integration part, they just have the UI to copy... which they can't because that's patented unlike parts of the Mac interface. The whole idea of the iPhone was to simplify the interface down to the bare minimum without making it ugly. And for that, the iPhone is damn near perfect.

Anyway, too much information overload on Windows mobile 7... and did anyone notice that the screens were partially cut off on the sides? What's up with that? It's like the Zune HD where some menu titles were cut off mid-word because they were too big for the screen to fit them

EDIT: I've decided I've hated the interface even more after watching the video because Windows Mobile is doing the same thing as the Zune HD with the menu titles as well as cut off screens

Believe it or not, that actually makes a big difference when navigating the device. Its not something that translates well through the video (just like the iPad) - you have to experience it for yourself.

The problem with the iPhone is often you find yourself "tunneling" through your apps and your menus to get to the thing you want. The way I would describe it is walking through a door, and there are several doors behind it that you must open to see what's next. Each point seems like its a block that you have to push your way through.

Now, with the Zune HD interface, and now 7series, the way I would describe it is "flowing down a river." Each menu item is a fork in the river, where you easily and seamlessly travel through in any direction. You don't get the same "tunneling" feeling that you do on the iPhone, but instead feel like the OS is almost streaming the content you're looking for directly from the start. I actually like that, and it makes for a better media experience compared to the iPhone.

That said, phones are personal, and everyone makes their choice. I can compare the interface to the iPhone because I've owned one for a year and a half now, and despite its limitations, am still happy with it. I do like that Microsoft is taking a new approach to UI and saying "Hey, there are other ways to do this." This keeps Apple improving their own UI and adding features that make their own handsets more valuable. Its a win for everybody.
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post #204 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

True, but I think Microsoft has been setting themselves up for this. Think about it - what makes the iPhone such a success? Its the platform and the integration with your media. Microsoft, being the ultimate platforms company, has a strong foundation in games with their Live platform, and has been building Zune as its media platform, with integration as pleasant and easy as iTunes, if not better.

Microsoft already owns 18% of the smartphone marketplace in the US thanks to corporate sales, while Apple hovers around 25%. If Microsoft can take the best elements of Apple by limiting and controlling the hardware, and Google by opening the marketplace for the applications, you get an incredible device that has all the essential ingredients to take on the big two.

There is only one problem, Microsoft does not have a Steve Jobs or a Bill Gates leading the company. Say what you will about Steve Jobs and Apple. They may be arrogant as hell, over hype their products like nobody's business. But at the end of the day , their products always pass the ordinary user test in usability and reliability.
post #205 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Apple is all about reducing the amount of clicks to do something

Heh... someone should have told the designer of the third-generation iPod shuffle that
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post #206 of 449
I see alot of Apple users are using stale arguements though... discussing features (something WM6 and 6.5 had a ton of) and ignoring how the iPhone was a UI revolution and how the Zune HD and now WP7S is following in that direction.

Also Flash will come, its just not there yet (since you know Adobe has to code it, not Microsoft). Silverlight is in WP7S.

Multitasking... it all depends. Games and most apps don't need it. Other apps need notifications. Very few apps like Pandora will need to run in the background.

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post #207 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Anyway, too much information overload on Windows mobile 7... and did anyone notice that the screens were partially cut off on the sides? What's up with that? It's like the Zune HD where some menu titles were cut off mid-word because they were too big for the screen to fit them

EDIT: I've decided I've hated the interface even more after watching the video because Windows Mobile is doing the same thing as the Zune HD with the menu titles as well as cut off screens

Are you confused by new things?
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post #208 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Maybe for the typical iPhone user, but for the rest of us, this amount of information is easily digested.

And we all know what digested matter becomes.

Really, though, how long will it take to reboot?
post #209 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Heh... someone should have told the designer of the third-generation iPod shuffle that

dash dash dash dot dot dash dot dash dot

I can do that on my Touch as well, well, I did it once and never used it again.
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post #210 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMacGuy View Post

Really, though, how long will it take to reboot?

as long as an iPhone?

could they make that take any longer?
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post #211 of 449
The live tiles seem innovative enough. Yet, why would anybody trust a company with as poor a track record as Microsoft? The first Zune has atrocious. Further, when you are competing to regain market share from proven innovators like Apple and Google, Microsoft is going to have to pull out bigger guns then updating tiles.
post #212 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

There is only one problem, Microsoft does not have a Steve Jobs or a Bill Gates leading the company. Say what you will about Steve Jobs and Apple. They may be arrogant as hell, over hype their products like nobody's business. But at the end of the day , their products always pass the ordinary user test in usability and reliability.

MS has certainly changed their philosophy recently. While they dont have a Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, their teams are certainly coming up with exciting products that most people thought were just a fluke.

Microsoft, just like Apple, want to be your one and only. From computers to your pocket to your TV and car. Apple has always had the upper hand for simplicity and reliability but Microsoft is making a strong surge towards that as well.

We've been criticizing MS for not integrating their platforms for awhile, but it looks like they learned.
post #213 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

There is only one problem, Microsoft does not have a Steve Jobs or a Bill Gates leading the company. Say what you will about Steve Jobs and Apple. They may be arrogant as hell, over hype their products like nobody's business. But at the end of the day , their products always pass the ordinary user test in usability and reliability.

To be honest, Microsoft has been better off since Bill's departure as CEO. The reason Vista was such a mess and a disaster of broken promises and horrible UI changes was because Gates was just too pushy with it. Under a different direction, Windows 7 scaled back its goals to first fix the foundation that Vista created, before you can build new and innovative features on top of it.

Microsoft's too big to be handled by someone like Steve Jobs. They have so many different platforms and markets they're dabbling into that its proven to be impossible to control it all. The internal structure of the company is like that of a dysfunctional family. I think the only thing that will save Microsoft in the long-run is to split up into four key companies:

1) Desktops and Enterprise (Windows)
2) Mobile Phones
3) Media services and Games (Zune, Xbox)
4) Cloud Computing (Bing, Live)
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post #214 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Gotta hand it to Microsoft, after 7 tries at something they seem to come up with something that almost catches up to the status quo that the rest of us have been enjoying for awhile...

LOL - I thought it was three tries and you are out. I guess in case of MS with so much money to burn they can keep on trying. I just wish they would actually come up with something original.

At least you have to give Bill Gates the credit for saying that MS is basically uninspiring and a copycat. The man certainly knows his limitations.
post #215 of 449
MS trumped Apple in one major respect: They broadcast the presentation live! Remember when Apple used to do that?

As for the presentation: It really needed some tightening up. Maybe Steve Jobs is really awesome at presentations, but I suspect he has people watch, review and critique them a lot. Steve has a habit of showing off a feature and saying "it's really great" or "terrific" or somesuch. The MS guy droned on and on about high-falutin' concepts while I was waiting for him to actually show me how the thing WORKED.

As for the product: I'm glad to see MS finally dictating some hardware standards. But they also hedged quite a bit so who knows how fractured the hardware space will be. Same on the software front. They made noises about standardizing, but then said partners would be able to innovate. And they didn't show any third-party software. Worst case scenario is that each carrier locks-down and mangles the UI to their own twisted purposes. That Pictures feature MS showed? Very nice, but we're replacing it with the "Orange Gallery" - and charging $4.95/mo. for it.

My opinion is that Apple keeps a lead here. The iPhone is Apple's phone. They deem to let a carrier have it on their network, but Apple maintains complete control of the hardware and software.

Otherwise, wow, this thread really descended into trolling and flaming pretty badly.

- Jasen.
post #216 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Maybe for the typical iPhone user, but for the rest of us, this amount of information is easily digested.

Too bad "the rest of us" counts for a small minority of consumers.

Is cooking a ROM anything like frying fish?

LOL
post #217 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

MS trumped Apple in one major respect: They broadcast the presentation live! Remember when Apple used to do that?

Yeah, why doesn't Apple do live press conference streaming? It seems a given in this streaming media world.
post #218 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

MS has certainly changed their philosophy recently. While they dont have a Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, their teams are certainly coming up with exciting products that most people thought were just a fluke.

Microsoft, just like Apple, want to be your one and only. From computers to your pocket to your TV and car. Apple has always had the upper hand for simplicity and reliability but Microsoft is making a strong surge towards that as well.

We've been criticizing MS for not integrating their platforms for awhile, but it looks like they learned.

That is true. Microsoft is now learning how to compete with the 21st Century Apple but unless they can truly bring out exciting products that work truly well in real life consistently . They will have an uphill battle in regards to mobile communications. But in the end, Microsoft being back will spur Apple, Google and the rest of tech industry to reach new heights in innovation, usability and reliability.

In my opinion though, Apple have a distinct advantage over Microsoft, being both a hardware and software company in both personal computers and mobile devices. They are willing to take risks that Microsoft and even Goggle will not take to improve or define their products.
post #219 of 449
I've rarely got much good to say about Microsoft but I have to say it looks reasonably well conceived. How that translates in real use is another story but still...is this a real demo'd device or is it like courier - just a render/photo-mockup?
post #220 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What's so difficult about having a web search app or icon on your main home screen if that's important to you? Just turn on the iPhone (one press) and hit, say, Google (or whatever) -- you're on web search!?

Not difficult. Very little on the iPhone is that hard but that's not to say it couldn't be improved. When you hit home > search, or however you get to search you are confronted with a mostly black screen on which you could have options. It would be useful to be able to select where you want to search. Say you are in addressbook and hit the home button twice and search opens and you can select addressbook, web or iPhone as the target of your search (without first having to leave addressbook). The default option would be with the app from which you initiated search.
post #221 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Where does that leave Apple missing features like Multi-Tasking...

inb4 apple crybabies try to use mail as an example.

Yeah, I hate the way I can't be listening to music, have a call come in and have the music die down and take the call and when they hang up my music comes back all while I'm looking at google maps or the internet or my mail or my contacts...

Oh wait! Silly me! I can! If only my iPhone could multitask though...
post #222 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Yeah, I hate the way I can't be listening to music, have a call come in and have the music die down and take the call and when they hang up my music comes back all while I'm looking at google maps or the internet or my mail or my contacts...

Oh wait! Silly me! I can! If only my iPhone could multitask though...

Try using Pandora and do all that at the same time without jailbreaking and let me know how that goes.
post #223 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Yeah, I hate the way I can't be listening to music, have a call come in and have the music die down and take the call and when they hang up my music comes back all while I'm looking at google maps or the internet or my mail or my contacts...

Oh wait! Silly me! I can! If only my iPhone could multitask though...

Well, how about listening to Pandora while browsing the web?
post #224 of 449
I would like to get my hand on this first before I bash it, much like the iPad. It lookes unique and different, so is not a me too product like some one said in the first post. I like the ability to use word and outlook, which would make this phone a hit with business users. As far as a personal phone I still think iPhone is better, but integration with xbox live could be pretty cool. I'll judge it when it comes out and I can play with it but I can say I am at least interested.
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post #225 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Five years behind what? What exactly does multitasking do that makes it as great as you make it sound?

It completely changes the user experience. This is the same argument Windows users used to make. If you used OS/2 during the early 90s, you'd know what it feels like to go back to using the iPhone after using the Android. It's just so darn frustrating. For me, now the iPhone is one giant inefficient application launcher.
post #226 of 449
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359245,00.asp

"The phones will be owned by OEMs, and you'll see different form factors and choices," Woodman said.

Which by default nullifies any real advantage this device (devices?) could have had.
post #227 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Sure... Whatever (like you have any idea what I do or don't own).

That's why I own every 'major' Apple product released over the past 20 years.

Simply Put: Apple's not the only company capable of creating compelling products, and from what we've seen/heard today, MS has created a true game-changer in the mobile phone/media arena.[/CENTER]

Thanks for the laugh, that made my day
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post #228 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Me to! Me to! Me to!

I hate to do this but for the sake of propriety that should be:

"Me too! Me too! Me too!"
post #229 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Theirs sew much they can due, butt their stoopid.

I feel like I just woke up in the world of Idiocracy.

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post #230 of 449
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Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Your mom must be proud.

He's mocking the horrific parade of misspellings that are de rigueur on AI these days.

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post #231 of 449
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Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

But Apple would benefit from some stiff competition.

Not sure we'll see it from Microsoft.

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post #232 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359245,00.asp

"The phones will be owned by OEMs, and you'll see different form factors and choices," Woodman said.

Which by default nullifies any real advantage this device (devices?) could have had.

Where are you trying to go with this? OEMs can make the device how they see fit as long as it falls within the parameters MS has set, and those parameters are very strict.
post #233 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Apple is all about reducing the amount of clicks to do something

Apple is the one that programmed the iPhone to do the double-click thing. They're also the ones who programmed the iPhone to go to the search page when you hit the Home button while on the Home page. Come on, have we sunk to a new level of laziness that we can't even click a button twice?
post #234 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

It completely changes the user experience. This is the same argument Windows users used to make. If you used OS/2 during the early 90s, you'd know what it feels like to go back to using the iPhone after using the Android. It's just so darn frustrating. For me, now the iPhone is one giant inefficient application launcher.

It does change the user experience, but not necessarily for the better. The method employed by Android and WebOS are not intelligent or user friendly.
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post #235 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It does change the user experience, but not necessarily for the better. The method employed by Android and WebOS are not intelligent or user friendly.

Not user friendly to you. For those that have actually spent time using Palm and Google's implementation, the comments have been quite favorable. In fact Palm's cards system is quite efficient.
post #236 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Where are you trying to go with this? OEMs can make the device how they see fit as long as it falls within the parameters MS has set, and those parameters are very strict.

That is very reasonable and fair to all parties concerned unless of course, something forces Microsoft's hand to repeat the debacle of Play For Sure . That is a genuine worry for the manufacturers as well as potential buyers of Window Phone 7 series.
post #237 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's still Windows.

Why use the interface of an unsuccessful product (Zune)?

Just because the Zune does not sell as many units as the iPod does not make it unsuccessful. If that is your rational then Apple is very unsuccessful to Microsoft since MS has 97% of the market.
post #238 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Theirs sew much they can due, butt their stoopid.

Yeah like take English lessons. Wow.
post #239 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Yeah i know they would have to port the software but it seems they havent because of the whole "Apple has that on lock" mentality because its on their hardware.

Personally i doubt its because of the media, but i do know i would uninstall iTunes and its bloated garbage if MS brought the Zune software to Mac.


Like you really believe that MS could produce Mac software that isn't bloatware?
post #240 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Apple is the one that programmed the iPhone to do the double-click thing. They're also the ones who programmed the iPhone to go to the search page when you hit the Home button while on the Home page.

Apple is the one that allows me to do a double click to ipod, double click to search or double click to homepage.

Of course, I had to pay cash to have that ability... which also cocked up the nice way OS2 used to work.

Quote:
Come on, have we sunk to a new level of laziness that we can't even click a button twice?

So let me get this straight.

If apple makes you do more to get a certain command/application, you are lazy if you dont use it.

But

If Microsoft makes you do more to get a certain command/application, its all sloppy and evil development.
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