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MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series - Page 7

post #241 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nz_silverfox View Post

Like you really believe that MS could produce Mac software that isn't bloatware?

Well, they certainly couldnt do any worse than Apple does with iTunes on Windows.
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post #242 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Well, they certainly couldnt do any worse than Apple does with iTunes on Windows.

Yeah, thats Apple payback for Office for Mac 2008
post #243 of 449
This coming from some of the biggest Apple fanboys on the planet:

Windows Phone 7 Interface: Microsoft Has Out-Appled Apple

Quote:
Rather than accessing an app to get contact information and make a call to a person, open another app to get her Twitter updates, and then another app to get her Facebook updates, and another for her latest mails to you, and yet another one to watch her photos, the Windows Phone's people hub offers a seamless view into all of it, presented in a very simple and logical way. On a function-centric model like the iPhone, when the user thinks "I want to make a call", he puts the device in "calling mode" by clicking on an app, selects a contact, and calls. When the user thinks "What's up with John Smith?" he puts the device in Facebook or Twitter or Mail mode, and so on.

Microsoft has organized the hubs into panoramas, by stitching groups of information as columns of a single landscape screenbigger than the phone's displaythat can be scrolled with your finger. The solutiontied together with minimalist interface aesthetics and animations that are inviting, elegant, and never superfluousworks great.
post #244 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkbaron View Post

Dont forget (and I talk as someone who works for a Microsoft Premier Partner) that although the interface on series 7 look cool and zune like, the code base is very much unchanged. Expect this os to have the same issues that have plagued windows mobile for the last 6 itterations!

According to this (from http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17684):

The first surprise is in the base operating system. The past Windows Mobile operating system code base is about to become officially retired, relegated to some forgotten change management repository. In its place will be an entirely new mobile phone operating system built atop the existing OS on Microsoft's Zune MP3 players.

In that respect Windows Mobile 7 could be hailed as the long awaited "Zune phone" as it shares much of the look of the Zune, with bright, flat square icons, large text and nary a chiclet in site. The look provides the first true alternative to the iPhone (competitors like Palm and Google have largely emulated Apple's chiclet grid look) and will likely appeal to many customers.


Win 6 Mobile platform is scrapped, and 7 is a fresh start.

We'll see. I personally think it looks promising.
post #245 of 449
Dear Apple,

Just because Windows Mobile 7 Series Professional SP2 2010 is underwhelming and a yawnfest, please do not sit on your laurels. Make iPhone OS 4.0 an A++ update.

Sincerely,
Someone ready for a nap.
post #246 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It does change the user experience, but not necessarily for the better. The method employed by Android and WebOS are not intelligent or user friendly.

[CENTER]To You - That Is... Many others find it enhances productivity and usability immensely.

Of course if Apple's offerings supported multi-tasking (of all apps), then I have little doubt that attitudes would be much different.[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #247 of 449
I see this is the same left-to right - then up- down interface that the Sony Playstation has. Apple seems to have missed following up on the idea of fluid animation interfaces - that are entirely pointless but make you go ooh-ahh every-time you use them just like the OSX dock
post #248 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Windows? Is any other comment necessary?

I conaider myself, somewhat of a mac zealot in that the experience is really there, for example, most Apple programs work the way you think they should, unlike windows where you have to do several more clicks to obtain the same results, that said win 7 is the most stable I've seen in a long time and they dont have to worry about suportting so many operating systems, which was a nightmare in the past, me, millinium, xp, vista , server 03/08 so now they more streamlined and 7 works really good on old hardware.

Plus they've had the touch out for quite sometime. Anyone watch NCIS Los Angeles? I wonder if that is touch. Plus I read an article that some restaraunts have them built into the table. The waitress brings the bill, digital and you drag and drop what you hade and then use your card directly on the tableto pay bills.

Sure 6.5 is not an iPhone OS but it's a lot better then 6.1.
Wonder if it has flash for tv websites?
post #249 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Unless, of course, Apple adopts Bing as it's default search engine and then you will argue why it's better than Google.

You misunderstand. The poster wasn't necessarily complaining about Bing as the search engine... it's the presence of a dedicated HARDWARE BUTTON whose sole purpose is to invoke it.

That's just plain ridiculous when a software solution is possible and more elegant. What's up with Microsoft (and PC vendors') fascination with extra buttons?

Thompson
post #250 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

You misunderstand. The poster wasn't necessarily complaining about Bing as the search engine... it's the presence of a dedicated HARDWARE BUTTON whose sole purpose is to invoke it.

That's just plain ridiculous when a software solution is possible and more elegant. What's up with Microsoft (and PC vendors') fascination with extra buttons?

Thompson

So YOU are deeming it wrong and unnecessary? I'm willing to give it a try to see how it works in practice instead of just writing it off so quickly.

I personally use search enough that I wouldn't mind having the feature -- but that's just my personal opinion.

The live keynote showed just how tightly integrated Bing search is with Windows Phone 7 Series that I can see why they have a dedicated button.
post #251 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[RIGHT]To You - That Is... Many others find it enhances productivity and usability immensely.

Of course if Apple's offerings supported multi-tasking (of all apps), then I have little doubt that attitudes would be much different.[/RIGHT]

So only when ";' use multitasking do my phones resources get used up with the performance and battery life suffer? No one else, just me. That's a great argument!

Try being a little objective for once. Multitasking is in the iPhone, what isn't enabled is App Store multitasking. Apple doesn't allow it's own apps in the App Store to multitask, either. Allowing any and all apps to run in the background forever and day once they've been opened is lazy and shortsighted. Having a separate app for managing these apps after they're opened and having them kill other apps running in the background when you need the RAM does not create a good user experience.

Having a controlled method for which the apps with reason to run in the background can background is the intelligent way to go. Having guidelines for the amount of resources background apps will use in the background is insightful. This takes more time to develop than the free for all ho down you've envisioned.
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post #252 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Couldn't agree more. Time to fix the problem. Open the iPhone and iPad to all carriers. Other companies do it. It's high time.

Technically the iPad is open to other carriers. In practice of course you can only use it on AT&T due to the 3G frequencies and funky microSIM
post #253 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

Sure 6.5 is not an iPhone OS but it's a lot better then 6.1.
Wonder if it has flash for tv websites?

At this point Hulu and other only require 10.0, I think. Flash 10.1 will work as a Flash player, but the HW may not be able to support Flash as the player. If they can get HW acceleration working and the content is in H.264 I'd wager the lower res will be playable without stuttering, but I have doubts about the higher res content. However, your battery will be taking a hit regardless.
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post #254 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

I see this is the same left-to right - then up- down interface that the Sony Playstation has. Apple seems to have missed following up on the idea of fluid animation interfaces - that are entirely pointless but make you go ooh-ahh every-time you use them just like the OSX dock

I completely agree that Apple needs to do more with the idea. Oddly my favorite part of the iphone/ipod interface is when I move an email to a different folder. The cutsie animation of the message flying to another folder is absolutely great and shows what is going on. I could use a lot more of those little animated touches
post #255 of 449
Not sure I like the idea of sliding the phone along a card to select the screen you wand to use, that's surely gonna be a clumsy interface.

post #256 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

So let me get this straight.

If apple makes you do more to get a certain command/application, you are lazy if you dont use it.

But

If Microsoft makes you do more to get a certain command/application, its all sloppy and evil development.

Moron alert.

There is no simpler way of accessing search from anywhere in the system than double tapping the home button.

Troll.

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post #257 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So only when ";' use multitasking do my phones resources get used up with the performance and battery life suffer? No one else, just me. That's a great argument!

Try being a little objective for once. Multitasking is in the iPhone, what isn't enabled is App Store multitasking. Apple doesn't allow it's own apps in the App Store to multitask, either. Allowing any and all apps to run in the background forever and day once they've been opened is lazy and shortsighted. Having a separate app for managing these apps after they're opened and having them kill other apps running in the background when you need the RAM does not create a good user experience.

Having a controlled method for which the apps with reason to run in the background can background is the intelligent way to go. Having guidelines for the amount of resources background apps will use in the background is insightful. This takes more time to develop than the free for all ho down you've envisioned.

[CENTER]Hmmm?

I never once denied that the iPhone does multi-task Apple's core apps, just not 'apps' of the user's choosing.

(Note: I do expect better levels of comprehension from one so 'allegedly' intellectually superior)

As far as your claim that multi-tasking results in suffering 'performance and battery life', I direct to Motorola's DROID, which multi-task any/all installed apps yet still consistently achieves greater battery autonomy than my iPhone 3GS.

The iPhone is undoubtedly a fine device, but some of these 'excuses' for features it's clearly lacking are just that - excuses that can be easily rectified with more proficient hardware/software design/integration. [/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #258 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

This coming from some of the biggest Apple fanboys on the planet:

Windows Phone 7 Interface: Microsoft Has Out-Appled Apple

To quote from the Gizmodo piece - "I'm sorry, Cupertino, but Microsoft has nailed it. Windows Phone 7 feels like an iPhone from the future. The UI has the simplicity and elegance of Apple's industrial design, while the iPhone's UI still feels like a colorized Palm Pilot."

Interesting reading for sure, and I like what I see. It really is a big step beyond the iPhone. I can't imagine anyone expected anything so good after years of Windows Mobile being a joke.

Well done MS, now it's your turn Apple, modernise the iPhone.
post #259 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Multitasking is far from a sprinkle. You talk about MS being a year behind, not having multitasking is about five years behind.

Some Flash sprinkle would help, too.

Even Queen acknowledged importance of Flash in their song, with catchy line: "Flash! A-ha, saviour of the universe!"

Now, seriously. I don't mind (much) lack of multitasking on a phone, and can even do with ne Flash on small screen. What kills me is poor phone module - maybe it is something with Vodafone network here in NZ, but however you turn it, iPhones are having "No Service" in spots where other phones (I had) have solid signal.

Additionally, I'd like iPhone to be a bit more open. Apple could have kept music and other media folders (with paid content) locked and hidden, but I can't see a reason why I could not plug my phone to any PC and copy, say, images or documents to and from.

I like the idea of Win 7 Mobile GUI, but lets see the implementation. So far, it is promising enough to keep me interested.
post #260 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Too bad "the rest of us" counts for a small minority of consumers.

Actually, the vast majority of folks are NOT iPhone users, much less the dumb-as-a-post type usually cited as the ideal iPhone demographic.
post #261 of 449
From the article:

Quote:
In a crowded market filled with phones that look the same and do the same things, I challenged the team to deliver a different kind of mobile experience

Congratulate yourself, Ballmer. For once your fat ass was successful at something.

Too bad MS didn't do "different" in a good way. The new UI could have been code-named "Blonde": beautiful but absolutely scatterbrained.
For the company that gave the world the Start button, where do you start with this thing?

Anyway, keep on swinging MS. Maybe Apple will die of laughter.
post #262 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Moron alert.

There is no simpler way of accessing search from anywhere in the system than double tapping the home button.

Troll.

Whats that Pot?

when I double tap my home button, it takes me to the iPod application.

perhaps you mean slow double tap?

I guess you have to be more specific
Thanks

Kettle
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post #263 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]As far as your claim that multi-tasking results in suffering 'performance and battery life', I direct to Motorola's DROID, which multi-task any/all installed apps yet still consistently achieves greater battery autonomy than my iPhone 3GS.

The iPhone is undoubtedly a fine device, but some of these 'excuses' for features it's clearly lacking are just that - excuses that can be easily rectified with more proficient hardware/software design/integration. [/CENTER]

Don't lie or I'll school your ass until you beg me to stop again. It would be best for you to stop posting this FUD altogether. You hate the iPhone, we get it, bow move on. Who the he'll is going to believe such silly lies that running many app has no affect on performance or battery.
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post #264 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

When I unlock my phone, I already see how many new texts, phone calls, emails, IMs I have simply by being on my home page. There's nothing new here.

You don't get it. With WP7 you don't have to unlock it to see how many new messages you have. You even see the time, date and any appointments on the lock screen. And when you unlock you will see even more like photos, actual status messages and so on.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/longzhe...7623315690861/

On the iPhone you always have to move all these apps to one home screen and come back to that screen to see what's new.
post #265 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Whats that Pot?

when I double tap my home button, it takes me to the iPod application.

perhaps you mean slow double tap?

I guess you have to be more specific
Thanks

Kettle

No, your misunderstanding is the result of the fact that you have no idea how to use the hardware. You can customize the home button to complete a number of commands in the settings.

Overall, WINMO7 is a good attempt to get back in the game and maybe there are a few things Apple can consider. I agree with other's that Googles OS isn't looking so shiny any more. The biggest problem I see is that every device that this OS is on will have to be styled after and look "identical" or at least similar to the iphone/ zune "flat Slab'. Not much incentive for manufacturers to make their own devices if it's hard to differentiate your product.

It works for Apple because the OS works on one device. Licensing this OS out seems tricky.
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post #266 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Moron alert.

There is no simpler way of accessing search from anywhere in the system than double tapping the home button.

Troll.

But that search button has different functions depending on where you are. If you press it in the mail app you search all mails and so on. On the home screen you get Bing.

Maybe you wanne use your brain next time before calling somebody a troll. Thank you.
post #267 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Who the he'll is going to believe such silly lies that running many app has no affect on performance or battery.

The same bright people that post everything centre-aligned to get attention: not many.
post #268 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

No, your misunderstanding is the result of the fact that you have no idea how to use the hardware. You can customize the home button to complete a number of commands in the settings.


The only misunderstanding is from you, Mr Pot 2.0

Yes, you can adjust it in the settings. This ability to adjust makes Mr Pot 1.0's comments extra specially false.

Which brings us almost full circule back to specificity.
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post #269 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's still Windows.

Why use the interface of an unsuccessful product (Zune)?

No, no it's not. It only got the windows branding but it's Zune. And that is made by a totally different team.
They finally did what they should done in the first place which was fire the windows mobile team and let the Zune team take over.

This is an excellent product and I can only hope they execute properly on this one as opposed to Palm's very bad handling of the Pre launch.

Oh how I wishhhhhhhh that Microsoft gets gutsy and actually come out with that Courier....running windows phone 7. I only wished they handed rebranded it windows "phone". What if they wanted to use the OS on devices other than a phone?

If they were to put this OS on a tablet I would buy it 10 times faster than I would an iPad.

Speaking of which, I have a suspicion (at least I hope) that the iPhone OS 4.0 will be very similar and is what the iPad should really have been running in the first place.
post #270 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The same bright people that post everything centre-aligned to get attention: not many.

The battery drain depends on how the other programs are being handled by the processor. Take something like flash on the Pre (coming soon - they could have done the setup better but eh). When the user deselects the flash video and drops it into his stack of card to do something else, the flash application is paused, which ultimately creates a low processor and ultimately energy situation, while it sits in the background.

An application that has to run constantly, such as Pandora, would always use more energy, but the major point is, how much more energy. Having Apple defined multitasking on the iPhone is also an energy draining activity.

But in terms of the mobile, the vast majority of energy expenditure is towards the mobile chipset and the screen.

Some users are willing to compromise a little battery time for the ability to do multiple things, like the jailbreakers i know, where as others would prefer the longest possible battery life.
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post #271 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't lie or I'll school your ass until you beg me to stop again. It would be best for you to stop posting this FUD altogether. You hate the iPhone, we get it, bow move on. Who the he'll is going to believe such silly lies that running many app has no affect on performance or battery.

[CENTER]Just because I caught you in error doesn't mean that you have to throw a temper tantrum and resort to spewing vitriol/profanities.

For The Record: I never claimed that there was no affect on battery life, only that said battery autonomy (even while multi-tasking the apps of my choosing) still betters my iPhone 3GS.

It's That Simple

Suggestion: Until you actually BUY a DROID, use it extensively (multi-tasking the apps of your choosing), compare it to your iPhone (if you own one), and can respond based on experience rather than fear that someone has one-upped the iPhone, there's really nothing to discuss here.

Have A Nice Day
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #272 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

The battery drain depends on how the other programs are being handled by the processor. Take something like flash on the Pre (coming soon - they could have done the setup better but eh). When the user deselects the flash video and drops it into his stack of card to do something else, the flash application is paused, which ultimately creates a low processor and ultimately energy situation, while it sits in the background.

An application that has to run constantly, such as Pandora, would always use more energy, but the major point is, how much more energy. Having Apple defined multitasking on the iPhone is also an energy draining activity.

But in terms of the mobile, the vast majority of energy expenditure is towards the mobile chipset and the screen.

Some users are willing to compromise a little battery time for the ability to do multiple things, like the jailbreakers i know, where as others would prefer the longest possible battery life.

Speaking of iPhone multi-tasking, here's a jailbroken iPhone using the webOS-style Cards system.

Actual demo starts at about 3:20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lgoopIhYgE
post #273 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

The battery drain depends on how the other programs are being handled by the processor. Take something like flash on the Pre (coming soon - they could have done the setup better but eh). When the user deselects the flash video and drops it into his stack of card to do something else, the flash application is paused, which ultimately creates a low processor and ultimately energy situation, while it sits in the background.

An application that has to run constantly, such as Pandora, would always use more energy, but the major point is, how much more energy. Having Apple defined multitasking on the iPhone is also an energy draining activity.

But in terms of the mobile, the vast majority of energy expenditure is towards the mobile chipset and the screen.

Some users are willing to compromise a little battery time for the ability to do multiple things, like the jailbreakers i know, where as others would prefer the longest possible battery life.

[CENTER]Exactly, though it's clear that such logic falls on many-a-dead ear in such a biased/hostile environment.[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #274 of 449
I will have to admit that Bing Maps (originally "local.live" beta, are probably the best the web has to offer -- especially if the street level (flyover) views are available for your area. Plus you can turn them to get the flyovers from different directions. THESE are easily the best maps the web has shown me.
post #275 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

You don't get it. With WP7 you don't have to unlock it to see how many new messages you have. You even see the time, date and any appointments on the lock screen. And when you unlock you will see even more like photos, actual status messages and so on.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/longzhe...7623315690861/

On the iPhone you always have to move all these apps to one home screen and come back to that screen to see what's new.

To be fair, you are conparing iPhone OS v3.0 which arrived as a Beta almost 12 months ago and WinMo 7 which arrived as a demo today. If iPhone OS v4.0 doesn't offer a similar feature, likely next month, then I'll understand an unfavorable comparison. As it stands it's looks pretty good for iPhone OS v4.0 to beat WinMo 7 to market by 4-5 months.

As for the usefulness, I hope Apple goes the route of jailbreak app LockInfo v2.0 for iPhone. It's brilliant and considerably more useful than the block system in the WM7 design. I'm also hoping iPhne OS SDK v4.0 offers a lockscreen API for devs, but that may be pushing it.
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post #276 of 449
What this MotoBlur?

See that's the thing about moving targets, they keep moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Except this blow MotoBlur out the water.I also didnt say it leaped the iPhone but its UI is certainly the best looking in my eyes.

Have you seen the videos running in real-time? It looks pretty good, even with the placeholder stuff they have in there but its easy to tell there is still more work that needs to be done to polish it up.

The industry has been waiting for WinMo7 for years now, its poised to deliver currently. MIX is supposed to show a lot more next month. It will be nice to see how the phones are, since i hear MS partnered with QUALCOMM and the base processor for WM7 is the Snapdragon
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post #277 of 449
I think this interface looks like it could be very interesting, but I wonder how it will put restrictions on how people can customise it so that it still looks clean and sensible.

One of the things I've been told the Google phone is good for is having flexibility in what you do with the user interface, but having looked at a friends phone, all the customisation he has done has made it look awful, and I think it seems more difficult to use.

The thing Apple seem good at is making an interface that works for the vast majority of regular users. That more techy people don't like not being able to customise it (and multi-task!) means they will lose sales from those people, but the vast majority of the market just doesn't care.
post #278 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

The thing Apple seem good at is making an interface that works for the vast majority of regular users. That more techy people don't like not being able to customise it (and multi-task!) means they will lose sales from those people, but the vast majority of the market just doesn't care.

[CENTER]Agreed... for now[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #279 of 449
If anyone is still on the fence about the new UI, I think short video pretty much sums up the experience in comparison to the iPhone:

http://gizmodo.com/5472235/windows-p...yline=true&s=i

The whole going into an app, then having to hit the Home button to go back -- rinse and repeat -- vs Microsoft's approach.

The video makes the point perfectly.
post #280 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

The battery drain depends on how the other programs are being handled by the processor. Take something like flash on the Pre (coming soon - they could have done the setup better but eh). When the user deselects the flash video and drops it into his stack of card to do something else, the flash application is paused, which ultimately creates a low processor and ultimately energy situation, while it sits in the background.

An application that has to run constantly, such as Pandora, would always use more energy, but the major point is, how much more energy. Having Apple defined multitasking on the iPhone is also an energy draining activity.

But in terms of the mobile, the vast majority of energy expenditure is towards the mobile chipset and the screen.

Some users are willing to compromise a little battery time for the ability to do multiple things, like the jailbreakers i know, where as others would prefer the longest possible battery life.

Apple didn't bece the most profitable handset maker in the world in 2 years by doing what the minority wanted. The results have been in for a long time unregulated multitasking completely at the user's discretion and without strong developer oversight is a major issue. You can't simply let everyone start opening apps and have them run continuously in te background. The argument that "it's my phone I should be able to do what I want wah" comes second to the product owner saying "it's my phone I need to make the user experience great or risk losing users".

I can think of a half-dozen app types that would benefit the user by running in th background, yet their only ever on app type and name given: Pandora. It' quite absurd to want a any and all apps to run in the background but then only offer one appas an example. How about a smarter approach to the problem. Like creating a backgrounding API so devs choose the appropriate apps to run in the background and the user chooses to enable these as background apps when you press the Home Button. It's how PNS works an that is a beautiful thing that allows me to get messages from 6 apps with only one miniscule process running.

DaHarder's claims that it has no affect on the system is comets BS and he knows it. I've owned pretty much every new smartphone from 2009 and not one was intelligent enough to handle background apps. The UI gets sluggish and eventally one will get killed. This is no way the average user should be using a phone.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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