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MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series - Page 8

post #281 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

To be fair, you are conparing iPhone OS v3.0 which arrived as a Beta almost 12 months ago and WinMo 7 which arrived as a demo today. If iPhone OS v4.0 doesn't offer a similar feature, likely next month, then I'll understand an unfavorable comparison. As it stands it's looks pretty good for iPhone OS v4.0 to beat WinMo 7 to market by 4-5 months.

Sure I can only compare what I have seen or read about. But WinMo had this specific feature for ages.

And I'm not as positive as you are about the iPhone OS 4.0 I was actually really shocked that Apple didn't really moved the OS forward for the iPad. And now there may not be enough room for complete new stuff if they don't wanne break a lot of compatibility.

But at the end of the day it isn't only about some numbers on the lock screen or some "gadgets/widgets" on the home screen (that would be easy to implement IMO). It's also about services (search, maps, speech), social stuff (communities, integration of the real-time web ...), there are now over 400 million Facebook users, 350 million or so Windows Live users, 500 million Office users (mostly the same people I guess *gg) and how many million Xbox Live members playing together? It's smart from Microsoft to bring all this together.

And finally the PC software: iTunes starts to be a real problem for Apple, I think. Not the service but the quality of the software!
post #282 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

DaHarder's claims that it has no affect on the system is comets (sp) BS and he knows it. I've owned pretty much every new smartphone from 2009 and not one was intelligent enough to handle background apps. The UI gets sluggish and eventally one will get killed. This is no way the average user should be using a phone.

[CENTER]You can restate your misinterpretation a million times, in a billion different ways, but it still won't make it the least bit true.

The truth is that I never claimed such a thing - In Fact, here's exactly what I posted:

"As far as your claim that multi-tasking results in suffering 'performance and battery life', I direct to Motorola's DROID, which multi-task any/all installed apps yet still consistently achieves greater battery autonomy than my iPhone 3GS."

See How Simple That Was...[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #283 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Sure I can only compare what I have seen or read about. But WinMo had this specific feature for ages.

And I'm not as positive as you are about the iPhone OS 4.0 I was actually really shocked that Apple didn't really moved the OS forward for the iPad. And now there may not be enough room for complete new stuff if they don't wanne break a lot of compatibility.

But at the end of the day it isn't only about some numbers on the lock screen or some "gadgets/widgets" on the home screen (that would be easy to implement IMO). It's also about services (search, maps, speech), social stuff (communities, integration of the real-time web ...), there are now over 400 million Facebook users, 350 million or so Windows Live users, 500 million Office users (mostly the same people I guess *gg) and how many million Xbox Live members playing together? It's smart from Microsoft to bring all this together.

And finally the PC software: iTunes starts to be a real problem for Apple, I think. Not the service but the quality of the software!

That was my point that I brought up earlier. How much could Apple possibly do with iPhoneOS 4.0 so not as to take things too far away from the iPad's version of the OS. The two come from basically the same code branch so anything that's done on the iPhone isn't going to be too dramatically different from the iPad (IMHO).

If anything, the iPhone OS 4.0 is going to take a few tricks from the iPad (background images for the Springboard for example).

And it would be quite a shocker to see the iPhone get some wonderfully revamped, "balls to the wall", fresh UI makeover with the iPad getting left in the dust. Then the poo-pooing on the iPad would only increase.

I say this because there's no way in hell that the iPad is getting a serious UI overhaul any time this year.
post #284 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I think this interface looks like it could be very interesting, but I wonder how it will put restrictions on how people can customise it so that it still looks clean and sensible.

In a Channel9 video the manager said that the user can choose the focus color that is blue here in the screen shots and choose between a bright and a dark theme: black text on white and for best for OLED screens white text on dark backgrounds.

The other customization is more of changing the content like re-arranging the tiles on the home screen and dynamically changed backgrounds in the music, photos and games hubs.
post #285 of 449
I've watched some of the videos for WM7 and there is a number of things that make me think this will be a failure. I hope my points are well reasoned and make sense.

1. Enterprise, enterprise, enterprise. When i worked for a global blue chip firm we all had WM phones. The issue being that they suited a hum drum, grey existence. Allowing me to get emails via our corporate servers but with a web browser so bad, that it put people off viewing the web which for the business was a bonus as it kept bills low. Does anyone else notice that this is positioned as a real consumer device, over and above business enterprise?

Now normally thats no bad thing, but WM incumbent (maybe only) customer in these hard competitive times is the enterprise market. Why would you potentially spur your only sales base? Because you have to....as your market share is rapidly decreasing, it's like the last desperate gamble at a poker table imho.

2. Play the coming soon game and in effect paralyse sales also known as Premature Ejacu-nouncement

Microsoft has gone out and said, you know what we've got something amazing. It's not coming out until autumn and it's a massive improvement over what we currently ship. Do MS really expect, tech savvy buyers to go, yes I'll go ahead and make that WM 6.5.? device purchase?

Its all cool if your device happens to be something with a pent-up demand or is defining a new market, but they've effectively just EOL alot of phones, some still not even released yet. Great news if your a MS vendor, developer or handset manufacturer. Imagine a car maker doing this.....it would have the same effect, people delay purchases and sales drop.

What about people who've recently bought a WM phone, say last week? Now everyone knows in the tech world you're never up to date, but has MS said anything about upgrades...transitioning assistance for current users old and new? No because their min spec will most likely not be fixed for a few more months meaning everyone will have to upgrade. Going off past WM updates and upgrades, I'd say dependant on handset maker, you've got a cat in hells chance. Yeah thats going to make people really happy, its like the reverse of a brand advocate. I doubt we'll see updates akin to the iphone and android here, it's got the G1 feeling about it 4 sure, though lets not confuse it with play4sure (cough)!

3. It's dead Jim, damn it I'm a WM developer not a medium...

People reporting on the new WM7 state that all previous app frameworks have been jettisoned, most liekyl ready for a new SDK based on the familiar Zune PLayer. So what does that mean for app development? it means your stuffed, current development is now still-born and companies reliant on specific software just found out it's legacy code...well it will be come autumn, winter, spring...you get the picture.

Now this cuts several ways. Lost revenue for app developers, both in terms of saleable apps and apps in development. An increased cost for future development, attempts at conversion- zero incentive!

Thats the cold light of the this. Doing a Palm and killing your OS is all well and good, when you've got your replacement ready. What would a WM developer do for the next say 7 months...migrate to iphone, android and webos more than likely.

4. Is it enough?

I'm not sure it is, but i guess time will tell. Personally for it to stand a chanceI think they needed to have need it ready for March. I guess it's time to place your bets.
post #286 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple didn't bece the most profitable handset maker in the world in 2 years by doing what the minority wanted.

lol Apple became the most profitable by making an attractive consumer proposition at low production cost but high consumer cost.

As long as the proposition vs percieved value is suitable for the average consumer, it will sell, inspite of its deficiencies. Aka Windows.

Quote:
The results have been in for a long time unregulated multitasking completely at the user's discretion and without strong developer oversight is a major issue.

Who said anything about unregulated multitasking with no developer oversight?

Apple, with their complete control over the apps experience is in the prime seat to work with their developers to provide the best multitasking enviroment with minimal battery life cost.

Quote:
You can't simply let everyone start opening apps and have them run continuously in te background. The argument that "it's my phone I should be able to do what I want wah" comes second to the product owner saying "it's my phone I need to make the user experience great or risk losing users".

Its nice that you built a strawman

Quote:
I can think of a half-dozen app types that would benefit the user by running in th background, yet their only ever on app type and name given: Pandora.

The closest i get to pandora is shoutcast, and yes it is irritating having to kill my radio to do other things. It sure would be nice not to kill my game to go grab an email, but ultimately to me, i hardly use any games, or any apps to make multitasking of any real value.

Now, an iPad might be a little hardwer to justify that, but I will see what becomes of it, adn how much the local importers try to do me over on the product.

Quote:
DaHarder's claims that it has no affect on the system is comets BS and he knows it.

so, perhaps not a strawman, but a reading issue. He never claimed that.

Quote:
I've owned pretty much every new smartphone from 2009 and not one was intelligent enough to handle background apps. The UI gets sluggish and eventally one will get killed. This is no way the average user should be using a phone.

the only one of interest for me is the pre, but its underpowered and not here. But, their style of multitasking seems pretty simple, even for the average moron.
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post #287 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartz View Post

2. Play the coming soon game and in effect paralyse sales also known as Premature Ejacu-nouncement

Microsoft has gone out and said, you know what we've got something amazing. It's not coming out to autumn and it's a massive improvement over what we currently ship. Do MS really expect, tech savvy buyers to go, yes I'll go ahead and make that WM 6.5.? device purchase?

They have to do it this way because it's a whole new platform and what they need before they can hit the marked it to have a lot of apps and content for this platform. Therefore they showed us what is coming and they tried to get as much interest from developers as possible so they will attend MIX next month and start coding.

Yes, they will lose customers on WinMo 6.5, but that shows how serious they are this time.
post #288 of 449
Keep in mind that Ballmer said the OS would be ready for the holiday season, but he did not say what year.......

MS has NEVER hit a release date for a new OS. So, there is zero chance this OS will hit the public market by December. The new phone OS will arrive some time late in 2011 and should be bug tolerable by say 2012. However, as fast as Android is growing, I think the Win Mobile 7 OS will be irrelevant and more or less replaced by the time it is released....

It is just my opinion of course...
post #289 of 449
I'm liking the way this competition is shaping up to be. With Android becoming an increasing thorn at Apple's side, (take Jobs' "they're trying to kill us!" line) hopefully this will drive an incentive towards innovation for 4.0.

I don't like how iPhone users have gotten so complacent with features to the point where they tell anyone of differing opinion that "it isn't an important update until Apple tells me it is!" Of course that demonstrates the effect of brand loyalty, but also dissuades any potential FUTURE consumer if they notice the actual iPhone experience hasn't changed relatively much since it's inception in 2007. Many people beyond Apple's circle of appeal have noticed the increasing rate of stagnation the platform is facing, while the userbase themselves has tricked themselves into believing that all the competitors are just copycats and no real change needs to happen.

In all honesty, I think increased competition is a good thing. Innovation is fueled by competition, and only the consumers win when companies are forced to go beyond their comfort zones. In the end, the experience of the consumer should come first, not the enjoyment of seeing stock numbers going up for your favorite company.
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lmao internet
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post #290 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

When is 'the holiday season'? Someone wrote October. If that's the case, Apple will most likely have new things out already, and M$ couldn't possible add additions things after Apple's announcement/release in July(?)
Phil

Yes, but since Win 7 Mob is not out until October or November... do we know if what was presented is final version, and no additional work on it will be done until release? Or is it beta, release candidate..?

My thinking is, if it is final (and locked to further development), I'd expect it to hit shelves before end of the year.
post #291 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartz View Post

1. Enterprise, enterprise, enterprise. When i worked for a global blue chip firm we all had WM phones. The issue being that they suited a hum drum, grey existence. Allowing me to get emails via our corporate servers but with a web browser so bad, that it put people off viewing the web which for the business was a bonus as it kept bills low. Does anyone else notice that this is positioned as a real consumer device, over and above business enterprise?

What did stop you from installing any 3rd part web browser?
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American centrism dominates 50% of the population here. That half don't think outside the box ... or perhaps just don't think. © digitalclips
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post #292 of 449
I couldn't care less. I don't think I'll ever buy ANYTHING Microsoft produces.
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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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post #293 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

I couldn't care less. I don't think I'll ever buy ANYTHING Microsoft produces.

[CENTER]Thanks for sharing... [/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #294 of 449
Right now, the greatest problem Windows Phone 7 running against it is time. Let us be honest here, the main competitor of Windows Phone 7 for now is not Apple, it's Google . Remember , Microsoft is not only competing against Goggle for the consumer mindshare, they are also competing for cell phone manufacturers to have phones carry their respective phone OS. Any delays on Microsoft's part sets them back and if they released a Vista like product or repeat the Play for Sure debacle. They would not only give the Phone 7 platform ( which appears to be a wonderful Phone platform) a black eye, Microsoft would lose their cell phone partners to Goggle's Android .

The pressure for Microsoft here is great, Windows Phone 7 series must come out swinging out of the gate and must perform equal or beyond expectations. In my opinion, this is Microsoft's last stand in the mobile communications department and that is the reason they outdid themselves this time. Unlike 1995, the competition are playing for keeps. So ladies and gentlemen, prepare yourself for the mobile ride of our lives because when it's all said and done, the winners will be the consumers and hopefully our wallets as well.
post #295 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]Thanks for sharing... [/CENTER]

Just an observation... what's up with all your text being centered?
post #296 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

Unlike 1995, the competition are playing for keeps. So ladies and gentlemen, prepare yourself for the mobile ride of our lives because when it's all said and done, the winners will be the consumers and hopefully our wallets as well.

Best way to sum it up.
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lmao internet
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post #297 of 449
http://www.riagenic.com/archives/249

http://www.neowin.net/news/ex-micros...in.net+News%29

Ex-Microsoft employee compares Windows Phone 7 to Vista

By Tom Warren

Scott Barnes, formerly a Microsoft Rich Platform Product Manager (WPF & Silverlight), has voiced his opinions on the Windows Phone 7 user interface (UI).

Barnes covers various topics of thought on the Windows Phone 7 announcements and admits when he initially saw the early specs, whilst he was working at Microsoft, he was "a little jaded with the whole level of commitment to the UX." He compares the new UI to that of the iPhone:

"the UI is trying a little to hard to do the opposite of the iPhone, like its a challenge they need to rise up against. Examples like no Icons, panning up/down instead of left / right for content etc seems to pack a little too much anti-iPhone."

Barnes also feels the Windows Phone 7 launch is similar to Vista. "This is the Windows Vista launch, as after some code resets and downward pressure from above this is almost exactly the same internal conditions Windows Vista team had before their launch, 'get it to market, get it fast and well come back around for the bits we wanted to put in place'."

After playing with a Windows Phone 7 series device I have similar concerns about the user interface. It's fast and gives you a quick overview of information but having to "Pivot" (slide) through panels of information isn't natural and could easily cause usability issues. Sliding to different parts of content is fine in principle, providing you know there's more content to slide to and you have a preview or understanding of what content you can slide to in either direction. I feel that Windows Phone 7 doesn't address this and buries options and content too far into what is referred to as a "Hub".

Microsoft switched their strategy for Windows Mobile approximately two years ago when they decided to "reset". Similar to the Longhorn (Vista) reset and subsequent development of Windows 7, Windows Mobile internal groups went through restructuring and a series of changes designed to improve the development process. I can't help but feel despite this effort, and the tasks involved, that it could be too late. The UI is basic and doesn't offer anything really compelling that makes you want to purchase a Windows Phone 7 device yet. The integration with web services is fantastic and a great step in the right direction but the UI is lacking somewhat. HTC spent years covering up the UI problems in Windows Mobile and Microsoft seems to have addressed this by ensuring every part of the OS now looks the same and functions the same. The problem is by doing this they have lost a great UI that they could have embraced and built upon in partnership with HTC. It's still not fully clear whether HTC will bring a cut down version of Sense to Windows Phone 7. The company could a Start Screen tile or Custom Hub. Loking at Windows Phone 6.5 with the Sense UI and comparing this to Windows Phone 7, I don't get the feeling of "wow" or usability that I get with the HTC Sense bar or impressive weather animations. The rest of the Windows Mobile 6.5 operating system underneath isn't as consistent however, Windows Phone 7 fixes that issue.

Despite my UI reservations, Microsoft has many months until Windows Phone 7 will hit the market. We know very little about how applications will interface with the operating system and which developers plan to create Windows Phone 7 apps. The juicy details of how Windows Phone 7 will position itself in the market won't arrive for another few weeks until MIX 2010 in March. Meanwhile Apple is likely to react to the announcements with its own plans for the iPhone OS 4.0 and next generation iPhone device due in June/July. If Apple has some interesting changes to their iPhone OS and impressive hardware then Microsoft could be on the back foot before Windows Phone 7 Series devices have even shipped.




post #298 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

If anyone is still on the fence about the new UI, I think short video pretty much sums up the experience in comparison to the iPhone:

http://gizmodo.com/5472235/windows-p...yline=true&s=i

The whole going into an app, then having to hit the Home button to go back -- rinse and repeat -- vs Microsoft's approach.

The video makes the point perfectly.

I can live without it on the iPhone, but the iPad (ugh, I hate the name) had better have this feature.
post #299 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I can live without it on the iPhone, but the iPad (ugh, I hate the name™) had better have this feature.

Isn't the UI of the iPad already finished? From what we've already seen, I don't think we're gonna have that functionality. And Apple only seems to update its mobile OSes (major update) once a year.
post #300 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Just an observation... what's up with all your text being centered?

He thinks he's pretty cool. Doesn't realize that most people who know this just sigh, roll their eyes, and go right past this affectation..... i.e., ignore it, basically.
post #301 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Isn't the UI of the iPad already finished? From what we've already seen, I don't think we're gonna have that functionality. And Apple only seems to update its mobile OSes (major update) once a year.

Yeah, That's worrisome. My expectation - well, I guess 'hope' is a better word -- is that it will ultimately be a software fix of some kind (a la cut/copy/paste).
post #302 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Actually, the vast majority of folks are NOT iPhone users, much less the dumb-as-a-post type usually cited as the ideal iPhone demographic.

You have to remember that Quadro has a selective view of the world. He forgets that the vast majority of the world is actually running Symbian and BlackBerry OS by a good margin. While we may think the US market numbers are a big deal (assuming he's referring to iPhone sales here), the reality is that the US is still a niche market.

Unless he means here on the forums to which I then say "thanks Captain Obvious".
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #303 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

While true that iPhone OS 4.0 will out this summer, how would it be possible to make it dramatically different without also changing the dynamic of the iPad as well (as far as the UI goes).

I mean, I don't envision seeing anything as advanced as the new MS OS's interface this year. I mean, we have static (for the most part) buttons on our iPhone littered through pages and pages. Microsoft is using large tiles with dynamic pictures, message, Facebook status update, weather information, etc, within easy reach.

The move, visual wise, from the iPhone OS to the new Windows Phone 7 Series looks about as amazing as everything leading up to the iPhone and the actual announcement of the iPhone.

That being said, I'm giving MS the benefit of the doubt here. Most people just blindly bash MS, so my words are likely lost in the mix anyway

-->
Let us says tiles are a fantastic idea - then what is all about live stuff? You need an aquarium with fish and squid floating around? Common - this thing is a phone and not a PC running on AC mains. Power consumption is pretty important.

iPhone has badges and Notifications. Well written applications can do a lot of wonderful things.
post #304 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Isn't the UI of the iPad already finished? From what we've already seen, I don't think we're gonna have that functionality. And Apple only seems to update its mobile OSes (major update) once a year.

You never know... maybe Apple used 3.2 simply to give an overall view of the OS to devs. Then, when 4.0 launches, they might introduce some kind of Dashboard, so you can have mutli-tasking in it: a Pandora widget, a IM widget, as well as the standard Weather/Stocks/Calculator/Clock ones.

Or maybe that's wishful thinking of mine.

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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post #305 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

lol Apple became the most profitable by making an attractive consumer proposition at low production cost but high consumer cost.

How crazy is that? Consumers willing to spend money on reliable phones that they can use. Are you now going to tell me how Japan and S. Korea's phones are so advanced that Apple could never make a dent in those advanced markets?


Quote:
Who said anything about unregulated multitasking with no developer oversight?

I've asked for clarification on many occasions as to how multitasking would be done on the iPhone yet the only response is to make it like WebOS and Android. Even an concept as to how a consumer-freindly multitasking would take place would give a little credibility to the desired feature instead of typical rant. It gets old, quickly.

Quote:
The closest i get to pandora is shoutcast, and yes it is irritating having to kill my radio to do other things. It sure would be nice not to kill my game to go grab an email, but ultimately to me, i hardly use any games, or any apps to make multitasking of any real value.

And those are real reasons to want multitasking. I've used it in my jailbroken iPhone and want it the official build, what I don't want is anything you guys have been saying about how it should work or this fallacy that it doesn't degrade the UX.

Quote:
He never claimed that.

Let's examine what he said.
Quote:
As far as your claim that multi-tasking results in suffering 'performance and battery life', I direct to Motorola's DROID, which multi-task any/all installed apps yet still consistently achieves greater battery autonomy than my iPhone 3GS.


That is a clear inference of multitasking has no affect on the system despite my claims that it does. I can point you to many websites backing up my own experiences. This isn't a court of law so there are no need for legal loopholes he can fall through by saying "{center}I never said those exact words{/center}". If you two were to be rational about it you would say something along the lines of "opening a music streaming app to run in the background, which most people want anyway, uses little additional resources and therefore impacts the battery very little. It's only when you max out the RAM by having an excessive number of apps running that the performance and battery take a severe hit."

My 3GS used only used about 5% an hour with Pandora running in the background. I know this because I actually tested this. My comments on backgrounding are coming from experience not some emotion filled desire to hate on Apple for not supplying this feature back in 2007.

Quote:
the only one of interest for me is the pre, but its underpowered and not here. But, their style of multitasking seems pretty simple, even for the average moron.

Yes, the swipe to switch apps is nice, but that is where it ends. What apps are available to be running in this mode? How would you access a similar card overlay on the iPhone? Will Apple have you press once to see these apps if you have multitasking turned on, will you press and hold (slow method), press the Home Button twice like you can do to access other functions you can set in Settings or something else entirely? How many apps will be allowed? How will a delegation of apps be handled? Running in the background for set time without being used or simply kicking it out when the RAM runs out (neither is ideal)? You have to think about the logistics in some way or these all-or-nothing and "but x-product does it" comments will just come across as moronic.
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post #306 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]No... They aren't, and they ring extraordinarily true to the more rational in this forum.

Bottom Line: The ZUNE Phone has arrived, and it's a masterpiece.[/CENTER]

Nothing has ARRIVED....... it has merely been conceived - big difference. Nice concept though, will be interesting to see how this one develops.
post #307 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzbk81 View Post

-->
Let us says tiles are a fantastic idea - then what is all about live stuff? You need an aquarium with fish and squid floating around? Common - this thing is a phone and not a PC running on AC mains. Power consumption is pretty important.

iPhone has badges and Notifications. Well written applications can do a lot of wonderful things.

Aquarium with fish floating around? What the heck are you talking about?

We're talking about simple email subject headers/Facebook status notifications and the like that are dynamically updated when needed. We're talking about informational stuff and you're going off the deep end to the extreme -- literally.

I know people think that Microsoft is downright stupid, but do you REALLY think that they are just gonna let this stuff drain the battery all to hell? They'd be crucified.

On my iPhone, it's constantly pinging email, texts, Facebook push notifications, and my MSN/AIM push notifications with IM+ Lite. I haven't seen any dramatic decrease in battery life.

Again, I'm not taking MS to be idiots here -- I think they know a thing or two about power management.

I just wish that people could get over the mentality that ONLY Apple can do things right.
post #308 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

You never know... maybe Apple used 3.2 simply to give an overall view of the OS to devs. Then, when 4.0 launches, they might introduce some kind of Dashboard, so you can have mutli-tasking in it: a Pandora widget, a IM widget, as well as the standard Weather/Stocks/Calculator/Clock ones.

Or maybe that's wishful thinking of mine.

But they weren't just showing it to devs, they were showing it to the whole world with many potential customers locking their eyes on it.

I'm just going by what Apple has done in the past. Has Apple ever launched a new mobile product -- or a mobile OS update for that matter -- showed off the operating system and all of its functionality, then a few months down the road revamped the whole thing or added a lot more features to it?

It's just not something that Apple typically does.
post #309 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

He forgets that the vast majority of the world is actually running Symbian and BlackBerry OS by a good margin. While we may think the US market numbers are a big deal (assuming he's referring to iPhone sales here), the reality is that the US is still a niche market.

And you forget that Apple makes a bigger profit from its phones than Nokia and RIM put together.

Niche market..... yeah...
post #310 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

And you forget that Apple makes a bigger profit from its phones than Nokia and RIM put together.

Niche market..... yeah...

Companies are more than willing to sacrifice profits for market penetration because it helps more in the long run. The more handsets you have on the market, the more control and influence you have.

Besides, money lining Apple's pockets does not improve the iPhone experience. Unless you get some sort of primal joy off seeing sales figures.
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post #311 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

http://www.riagenic.com/archives/249

http://www.neowin.net/news/ex-micros...in.net+News%29

Ex-Microsoft employee compares Windows Phone 7 to Vista

By Tom Warren

Scott Barnes, formerly a Microsoft Rich Platform Product Manager (WPF & Silverlight), has voiced his opinions on the Windows Phone 7 user interface (UI).

Barnes covers various topics of thought on the Windows Phone 7 announcements and admits when he initially saw the early specs, whilst he was working at Microsoft, he was "a little jaded with the whole level of commitment to the UX." He compares the new UI to that of the iPhone:

"the UI is trying a little to hard to do the opposite of the iPhone, like its a challenge they need to rise up against. Examples like no Icons, panning up/down instead of left / right for content etc seems to pack a little too much anti-iPhone."

Barnes also feels the Windows Phone 7 launch is similar to Vista. "This is the Windows Vista launch, as after some code resets and downward pressure from above this is almost exactly the same internal conditions Windows Vista team had before their launch, 'get it to market, get it fast and well come back around for the bits we wanted to put in place'."

After playing with a Windows Phone 7 series device I have similar concerns about the user interface. It's fast and gives you a quick overview of information but having to "Pivot" (slide) through panels of information isn't natural and could easily cause usability issues. Sliding to different parts of content is fine in principle, providing you know there's more content to slide to and you have a preview or understanding of what content you can slide to in either direction. I feel that Windows Phone 7 doesn't address this and buries options and content too far into what is referred to as a "Hub".

Microsoft switched their strategy for Windows Mobile approximately two years ago when they decided to "reset". Similar to the Longhorn (Vista) reset and subsequent development of Windows 7, Windows Mobile internal groups went through restructuring and a series of changes designed to improve the development process. I can't help but feel despite this effort, and the tasks involved, that it could be too late. The UI is basic and doesn't offer anything really compelling that makes you want to purchase a Windows Phone 7 device yet. The integration with web services is fantastic and a great step in the right direction but the UI is lacking somewhat. HTC spent years covering up the UI problems in Windows Mobile and Microsoft seems to have addressed this by ensuring every part of the OS now looks the same and functions the same. The problem is by doing this they have lost a great UI that they could have embraced and built upon in partnership with HTC. It's still not fully clear whether HTC will bring a cut down version of Sense to Windows Phone 7. The company could a Start Screen tile or Custom Hub. Loking at Windows Phone 6.5 with the Sense UI and comparing this to Windows Phone 7, I don't get the feeling of "wow" or usability that I get with the HTC Sense bar or impressive weather animations. The rest of the Windows Mobile 6.5 operating system underneath isn't as consistent however, Windows Phone 7 fixes that issue.

Despite my UI reservations, Microsoft has many months until Windows Phone 7 will hit the market. We know very little about how applications will interface with the operating system and which developers plan to create Windows Phone 7 apps. The juicy details of how Windows Phone 7 will position itself in the market won't arrive for another few weeks until MIX 2010 in March. Meanwhile Apple is likely to react to the announcements with its own plans for the iPhone OS 4.0 and next generation iPhone device due in June/July. If Apple has some interesting changes to their iPhone OS and impressive hardware then Microsoft could be on the back foot before Windows Phone 7 Series devices have even shipped.

Sounds like someone is bitter he left Microsoft. How the hell is the UI anti-iPhone? Its the same damn UI from the Zune lol. There is no wow factor with HTC Sense, if there is it most likely came from "Wow, i can actually use this phone since its not a total eye sore and piece of crap 6.5.

This blows the Sense UI out the water, also im questioning this guy because he says one doesnt know if there is more content to be scrolled to...i guess thats why MS put that nice little UI touch where you can see the beginning of the next slide in your current window.
post #312 of 449
Wow... just wow. If I was in a Warner Bros. cartoon my jaw would be on the ground right about now.

Not only is that thing much for functional than any other device on the market, it's beautiful. The UI looks colourful and vibrant and alive.

Suddenly the iPhone's monotone conformity is looking VERY drab and VERY dated.

I've just got so many questions though. Like can they actually deliver this on time? Or will Apple\\Google\\etc come out with something in the next 12 months that will wipe the floor with this? Or can Microsoft convince enough developers to create for Win7 Mobile so they can compete with the App Store.

In any case it's going to be an interesting 12 months!!!!!
post #313 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Just an observation... what's up with all your text being centered?

Because...

Before I retired from the USAF a few years ago I had an accident involving a hydrazine tank explosion that seriously impaired my vision. I center my posts so that they're easier for me to identify in a sea of (otherwise) blurry scribbles.

BTW... Thanks for the positive and insightful input.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
Reply
post #314 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

I created Windows Phone 7

I bought the company and gave the money back to the share holders,

no wait - that was Dell - sorry, my bad
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
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May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
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post #315 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]No... They aren't, and they ring extraordinarily true to the more rational in this forum.

Bottom Line: The ZUNE Phone has arrived, and it's a masterpiece.[/CENTER]

It has?

I don't see it, - I just don't see it as a masterpiece.

They've gone to a LOT of effort, but it's just so damn obvious that most of their effort
was to make it as different as possible to the UI of the iPhone. Was that MS's intention?
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
Reply
post #316 of 449
From the look of things, this thread will have 5000 posts or more by the time Microsoft release Windows Phone 7. Just for that, I can't wait to see the comparison thread between the iPhone , Android, WebOS and Win Phone 7 at the end of the year. That would make for a very long entertaining read during the holiday season and winter of 2011 .
post #317 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

[CENTER]No... They aren't, and they ring extraordinarily true to the more rational in this forum.

Bottom Line: The ZUNE Phone has arrived, and it's a masterpiece.[/CENTER]

Until the next iPhone.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359245,00.asp

"The phones will be owned by OEMs, and you'll see different form factors and choices,"

Which by default nullifies any real advantage this device could have had.

Microsoft again opts to stick to the fragmented mess model (a la Google) which is designed up to appeal to everyone but the end users.
post #318 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzExige View Post

It has?
I don't see it, - I just don't see it as a masterpiece.

They've gone to a LOT of effort, but it's just so damn obvious that most of their effort
was to make it as different as possible to the UI of the iPhone. Was that MS's intention?

Why would they want to copy the iPhone interface when they can create something much better?

What Microsoft have done is highlight just how boring and dated the iPhone UI is. Someone had better tell Steve it's time for an update.

The problem is that I see a masterpiece, but it's only a promise. I don't see any actual phones. 12 months is a lifetime in the mobile world and Apple\\Google could overhaul their own UIs and leave Microsoft behind before a Win7 mobile ever hits the store shelves.

I'm also interested to see if Microsoft can actually make their UI work fast and without chewing through the battery. The iPhone may be looking dated, but at least it is very fast and very kind to the battery.
post #319 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Until the next iPhone.

[CENTER]...and exactly how would the introduction of a new iPhone diminish the aesthetic/functional advancements (seemingly) made by this GUI?

Reality: Apple's pretty locked into the whole 'grid of icons' as an application launcher theme, and they probably won't be straying too far from that system any time soon.

Apple's 'system' works well, but it hasn't been state of the art (from a design/aesthetic perspective) for quite some time now.
[/CENTER]
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
Reply
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
Reply
post #320 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

"The phones will be owned by OEMs, and you'll see different form factors and choices,"

Which by default nullifies any real advantage this device could have had.

Like having the ability to choose a manufacturer with a physical keyboard if I wanted?

Being a brand new base platform, Windows Phone 7 won't have four different versions floating around like Android. Plus, the specs and requirements of the phones will be tightly controlled by Microsoft themselves.
lmao internet
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lmao internet
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