MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series - Page 9

[CENTER]Honestly...

The more you keep going on and on and on about matters of which you have long been proven 'in error', the more petty and obsessive you appear.

Suggestion: Act as any mature adult should and accept that you 'misinterpreted' what was posted and leave it be.

No Harm - No Foul[/CENTER]

Don't blame me because you communicate no better than an unloved 10yo with ADHD. Instead of your "I didn't mean that" posts, how about actually using your big boy words and saying what you mean.


[CENTER]"Look at me! Look at me!"

Note: If you continue to be caustic and abusive to everyone I'll continue to put the smack down on you.[/CENTER]

"much better" - 'better' maybe, however they can't pull off a miracle, they're still hamstrung by the fact that it's a UI for a mobile device.
They can't turn it into Windows 7 'mobile' (despite the name), just as Apple can't produce OS X 'mobile' - even if they build their own mobile CPU/GPU.


I think Steve has an update in the 'wings'


Agreed, but where is this masterful phone?


Apple had to make it battery-friendly, with a 'fixed' battery, there's no other choice.

The issue may not be the as it is with WinMo ≤6.5. MS looks like they want to keep the HW restrictions well controlled. Hopefully they've learned a few things from the Zune's single vendor design and will keep the OEM requirements tight. It surely won't be like Android, which is a free OS that can be altered and manipulated by anyone and everyone.

The User Interface looks awesome but honestly, like the iPad, it's still vapourware. Until we can hold it, use it , play with it and work with it in real life , it's just that. Honestly, Apple and Goggle as well as Palm WebOS and Nokia can match that as well with their own unique versions early next year. Remember , by the time Microsoft release their Win Phone 7 during the holiday season, the competition are already finalizing their next generation phones and halfway through finishing their respective phone OS.

That is the reason why I question the timing of their release. During the Holiday season, everyone knows the Apple, Nokia , Android and Palm will be showing off their 2011 stuff in January and early February. And depending on how they want to squeeze Microsoft into a jam, might even release their products in March and April 2011, months early from their respective regular upgrade cycle . If Microsoft would had timed their product release during the Apple's upgrade cycle this coming June, they would have literally stole the thunder from Apple, gain market and mind share and slow the Android platform down in that order and might have finished the Palm platform for good in the side. But alas, because of their decision, Microsoft must make sure that Windows Phone 7 must work with all phones made by it's partners with stability, reliability and user friendliness in mind in November or December during the series' release. Microsoft's margin for error is not very forgiving.

DaHarder, one of the greatest advantage of Apple being a systems company is this, they can changed their UI paradigm and the hardware that accompanies it because they can and they will, anytime they wanted to. They are big enough to matter, but nimble enough to counter the competition. And they have Jobs and his Lieutenants and their teams to make a kick ass UI and hardware to accompany it by early spring next year . Those patents they are hoarding jealously will then come into play.

As much as I dislike Microsoft, I also want competition to improve Apple and the rest. Microsoft would have a very good chance of at least beating Apple at their game this year and be truly competitive next year to tackle the Apple, Goggle and Nokia respectively. In the end though, I suspect by the end of next year, Microsoft will be force to drop it's cell phone partners and build their own phone in order to take advantage of Win Phone 7 strengths as well as to take control of their upgrade cycle in order to challenge the top 4 smartphone players.

[CENTER]Given that the topic of this thread is Microsoft Unveils Windows Phone 7 Series, please at least try to stay on topic, and refrain from petty disruptions, harassment, rudeness, and temper tantrums that add absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Yes, I understand that Solipsism (a philosophical idea that one's own mind is all that exist) is your chosen screen name, but you're really taking said monicker far too seriously.

For The Record: Indeed it is you who constantly screams 'Look At Me! Look At Me! with your constant thread disruptions and unprovoked lashing out.

In my world, neither you nor your narcissistic love of self matter one iota, and I kindly request that you place me on your {IGNORE} list and move on.

Thanks[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Understood, but...

It would be rather uncharacteristic of Apple to so drastically overhaul their Mobile OS given that the 'simplicity' of said environment is a large part of its success.

It would also be strange for them to perform such a dramatic redesign after just showing their "New Creation' featuring a GUI that doesn't stray very far from Apple's current mobile OS.

We'll See Soon Enough...
[/CENTER]

Children, play nice. Stay on topic and be polite. Also: grow a thick skin and don't ask the moderators to sort out petty squabbles.

Just as a side note: centre aligning your text makes me more likely to skip past what you've written. Not callin' anyone out here, but it's a bit gauche.

[just got here. apologies to everyone who already has already covered these remarks.]

today we saw in Barcelona:

- at last, the two former big guys announce that this year they will finally offer competitive 2nd gen smartphone versions of their old OS platforms - MS' WinMo 7 and Nokia's Symbian 3 - three years after the iPhone revolution began, and well over a year after Google's Android alternative was born.

- one more OEM stand-alone (Linux variant) OS - Samsung's Bada - to soon join the other OEM standalone 2nd gen OS's - Palm's webOS and RIM's Storm BlackBerry 5.0 OS (neither of whom announced anything).

- MS announcing its own mobile cloud ecosystem integrated with Zune Store, XBox Live, and Office/Exchange, seeking to match Goggle's Android cloud and Apple's rapidly growing hardware-based ecosystem that will add the iPad in a few months and an further updated iPhone in June.

- Nokia, with Intel's support, announcing its intentions to create another free-to-all mobile OS - MeeGo - to compete with Google's upcoming Chrome and maybe the iPad (and Archos). but this will take some time.

- and, oh yeah, some new kind of industry wide app store or standardized app or whatever alliance (Handango is not enough?). sure, someday.

well all the fanboys for every one of the above can duke it out here about the merits of each versus the other, as i see they are already.

but a few general observations stand out above the fray:

- there is massive OS fragmentation going on. now for 2nd gen smartphones 3 any-OEM-can-use-it OS's plus 4 proprietary OS's. and 2 more any-OEM-can-use-it tablet/netbook OS's plus 2 proprietary ones.

- the countervailing unifying force of ecosystems is limited to MS, Apple, and Google, with Nokia hoping to catch up eventually (Ovi).

- all current WinMo and Symbian products were declared end-of-life today. instant clearance sale status.

finally, predictions:

- with no ecosystem, the Pre/Pixi and Storm are dead-ends. with it's solid and focused enterprise niche (although MS WinMo 7 will try to compete with it), RIM will be ok, but Palm is doomed.

- Nokia and Samsung are much stronger beyond the US, especially Asia and second/third world. so they will be also-rans in the US, but still post big numbers world-wide where ecosystems are not so important yet.

- Apple will hold on to a solid chunk of the market thanks to its highly integrated hardware ecosystem, which continues to evolve technically and expand physically, plus its big head start. it will be interesting to see if Apple further develops MobilMe this year. and if the iPad is a big hit. both would reinforce its position.

- So Apple and RIM can stand apart from the upcoming smartphone battle mostly. they have a solid market base. but Google, MS, and Nokia do not, and so are going to have a bloodbath in the marketplace starting in the Fall, all competing for the same customers. while the OEM's will just scramble and sell any OS they can.

i think Google was today's big loser. they are not the New Kid In Town anymore.

Actually, I think it's a bit...centre.

Hey Wil... I'm with ya again on this... except, keep BallMe_R. He's good for my Apple stock

Just my 2 cents on the User Interface. Horrendous and hideous come to mind, considering the device it's designed for... NOT! Animation overload as some one else mentioned. It gets boring, and most of all ANNOYING very fast.

Throw in the fact they are trying to be "Vogue" visually (how pathetic!)... it does not work here or on a device like this.

I can't wait to see those cut off title-heads in different languages... like German. That will be funny!

I also think MS would be better at having their own phone. It would give the staff in their stores something to do.

How many stores does MS have now? 3? 5? Haven't heard anything since I believe the Scottsdale opening... and am too lazy to Google it.

[CENTER]Understood, but it really does prove invaluable for the accessibility reasons previously explained... gauche or not.

Additionally: If it (center justification) 'legitimately' bothers someone that much, then those individuals are always free to skip and/or systematically [IGNORE] any/all post from a particular forum member, are they not?

Resorting to blatant harassment, bullying, profanity, threats (via private message), and unnecessary thread disruptions are simply uncalled for, and no one should be allowed to so blatantly violate written forum rules without repercussion, especially when so many others willingly adhere to those established/higher standards.

Please feel free to PM me on this matter at any time.

Thank You[/CENTER]

Too little too late.

Although the interface has changed to compete with the iPhone's and looks really appealing. It still seems to be too hard to use for the common non-technical person. Millions still struggle to put their cell phones in silence mode because they haven't worked out the shortcut. The iPhone has a switch - very clever!

So, in order to really compete, MS need to change the paradigm again, much like what Apple has done with the iPhone. Plus the halo effect from the iPod has made Apple products "cool" to carry and use. MS still needs to break this "nerdy" "uncool" "too-techy", feeling. I don't think MS Mobile 7 will do it.

Cheers!

[CENTER]It appears that MS is doing much more than merely trying to 'compete' here, especially if one approaches this iteration of the ZUNE GUI from a 'philosophical' perspective.

Those 'Menus That Don't Fit Entirely On The Screen' are representative of a system with a 'larger/unlimited vision', one that keeps providing more information as one explores one's surroundings.

Example:Look directly in front of yourself. Notice how you only see so much? Now move your head to the left. Then to the right. See how there's so much more to see simply by looking around? The world is so much more expansive if you simply look around - It's That Simple.

It's extremely 'fluid' and a far cry from the more 'boxed in' or 'wall' paradigms that one typically finds on such systems.

Personally: I find it even more Brilliantly realized here than even on the, very well executed, ZUNE HD effort.[/CENTER]

Bull.

It's just PR - a new interface is a new OS, when underneath it's Windows CE - a new version maybe, but Windows CE ultimately.

Until apps are recoded to use the new "Windows Phone 7" interface APIs (and there's no SDK that includes them yet), third party applications will be using the ancient Windows CE user interface controls still. Or they won't be compatible. And thus the device will have few third party applications available at launch. And given that developers will be looking at the sliding Windows Mobile marketshare today, they won't rush to get their apps running on Microsoft's idea of a touch interface.

On the positive side, I like what Microsoft have done with a horizontal slidey interface for their applications. However until I see and use it in practice it's meaningless, and it's not exactly stunning technologically - it could be that sliding to see information gets boring quite quickly.

Sounds like the HTC interface on my Android phone. I can move around widgets / tiles, of differing sizes, over the different screens as I see fit. Some of those tiles are app launchers, some are far more interactive.

I've posted before that Apple needs widgets on its interface. I'm certain that they will have to be a part of iPhone OS 4, or the device's interface will start to look dated against competition that is finally in gear.

That looks way too confusing for the typical iPhone user. My Aunt Gladys would ruin her battery. And anything that might hurt Aunt Gladys is just evil.

My neighbor has Downs Syndrome, and he loves his iTouch. Apple shouldn't change a thing, or else he'll get confused. He's a nice guy. I hope Apple never changes its interface.

I wish TuneWiki would run in the background. I use it every single day. I used to be jailbroken, and it would run in the background. but no longer.

Just last night, I fired up my favorite radio station, and then thought of something I wanted to look up on the 'web.

Nope. No Backgrounder. No Apple support. No joy.

I really hope that the Android phones coming to ATT will be something I'd consider buying. I have dust under my iPhone screen, and so I can get a new one to sell on eBay anytime - but I want to have a replacement phone picked out before I do it.

Thanks for posting everything centre justified, despite the fact it makes it virtually impossible to read. Did you ever go to school? Didn't they teach you how to write English?

Stop behaving like a child and type in a way others can understand.

Yep. My thoughts exactly.

We all thought that the iOS would be improved at the 'Pad launch. Nope.

And now we're told that the iOS will be improved soon - but that would affect the 'Pad, and the developers now scurrying to change their apps to work well on the 'Pad.

So I don't see any big changes in iOS until the 'Pad gets established in the market - i.e., a long time from now.

So I see the 'Pad as not only a disappointment in its own right, but it also screws the pooch for iOS improvements any time soon. Bad stuff.

BTW - If anybody thinks that iOS can/will get a major overhaul at this point in history, I'd love to hear how it might happen without ruining the new 'Pad.

Did you know that Microsoft is a major owner of Apple? Did you know that every time you give Apple your money, you are buying a product partly owned by Microsoft?

Didn't Microsoft sell their Apple shares a while ago?

That model has relegated Apple's model to niche status on the desktop. Why won't it work on mobile devices?

I agree. They seem to want the iOS to be usable by toddlers. So they put everything on a big tabletop and say "pick one".

Their method appeals to dunces, but is not scalable. You end up with 11 screens, each with 16 similar-looking icons. It sucks, but dunces can figure it out.

I hope that Apple starts developing for the rest of us someday. But I doubt it will ever happen. They rarely think different.

In order to continue, you must first start.

You post crap like that and you wonder why people think you're a troll.

Personally, I prefer droite alignment.

Solipsism is one of the most disruptive posters on this Forum.

But for the rest of us, it seems much better than the dumbed-down iPhone. Thank Goodness that SOMEONE makes devices for folks with normal abilities.

You two are just upset that your trolling doesn't fly here.

I don't see how this nullifies anything. It's the best of Google and Apple in one. There's a strict list of hardware that the OEMs must meet first, so the internals will be pretty similar from phone to phone. And I'm assuming, like the iPhone OS, the OS will be exactly the same from phone to phone, giving that "Apple unified" experience.

The many form factors then gives us consumers this thing called options. Contrary to what you may believe, the vast majority of the world likes to be able to choose for themselves what their phone looks like.

Want a slide-out keyboard for fast typing? WP7S will have a phone for you. Want no keyboard and a massive screen? WP7S will have a phone for you. Want a tiny phone? WP7S will have a phone for you. Like LED instead of AMOLED? WP7S will have something for you. The list goes on and on.

As for Apple? Want AMOLED? Too bad, you only get one phone. Want a slide-out keyboard? Too bad you only get one phone. Don't like the shape of the phone? Too bad you only get one phone. The only advantage the iPhone has in the same form-factor is broad-level accessory capatibility (but you still have to get Apple's approval before doing anything). But as Android has shown, it's not that big of an issue. Popular accessory companies already have something for those form-factors.

MS gets to keep is WP7S OS the same for every market and the OEMs get the flexibility to design a phone that they know will sell well in their market area.

Where's the disadvantage in that? Or are you just twisting words to make it seem like it's worse than it really is? I'm siding with the second one.

Your credibility goes to zero pretty quickly with fantasy posts like this.

Please stop imagining that you know what I am thinking. Or at least, please stop hijacking threads with your musings about your fellow posters' motivations.

Please stop imagining that you know my thoughts and emotions. Or at least, please stop disrupting this forum with your delusions.

I never get upset about forum posts. Your personal attacks have no place here.

I'm not sure that is true with Windows Phone 7 Series (WP7S, even the initialism is a mouthful). MS looks to be tightening up what the OEMs can and can't do. MS may not care about an LCD v. OLED display but that isn't exactly a make it or break deal.

I'm not even sure that MS will allow a slide out keyboard for WP7S after looking at the demo and I think it would behoove them to start with a specific design with only a couple OEMs to make the device as solid as the Zune.

As for choices, there is such a thing as too much choice. Take the Nexus One, for example, the iPhone sold more units in one day, on the 4th UK carrier than the Nexus One sold worldwide in a week. Yet the Nexus One is clearly a much faster device with a higher rez display. Choice is great, but having an understanding of your market that makes customers feel safe with your products is extremely important. Too much change and too many options simply aren't good business.



What the hell happened to this place?

The problem is that you've just hawked an outdated piece of information. This lists the top 10 institutions and funds that hold Apple stock:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL

Even if they own some stock, it's not a large portion.


Typography is done a certain way for a reason. Having a consistent place to "return" the eyes for the next line aids quick readability, breaking it up disrupts that. This isn't something that people made up, it's been tested. You've yet to give a reason why it should be otherwise.

It's based on WinCE but with the UI thrown out, so existing CE apps aren't compatible. Though I'd be amazed if they changed much of the core CE APIs.

New UIs will need to be WPF or (again I'm presuming here - based on XNA compatibility) a DirectX subset.

So although it's new it will still be accessible to developers who have had exposure to Windows development which, to me at least, seems to be just about everyone.

You're not going to see a thousand fart apps on day one, but they will come with time.

That said, based on the Win Phones familiarity with DirectX and Microsoft's relationships with the game development studios I wouldn't be surprised to see some big name games pop up early in its life cycle along with a lot of ports from the independents on Xbox Live.

In any case we're in for an interesting year!

I was mistaken. Thanks for the correction. I like being wrong - it's a great way to learn new stuff.