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MWC: Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7 Series - Page 11

post #401 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.

There is room for improvement. There are concepts from the desktop that would work on mobile devices. Does the choice of a single level app launcher make it 'dumbed down'? hardly.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #402 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.

This wasn't an issue with v1.0 which only had the one page. With v2.0 did have apps but going through a few pages wasn't a big deal. v3.0 added the search, which is useful, and 2 extra pages even though the actual number of apps you can add is unlimited, but I suspect v4.0 will add an even better method. I wouldn't be surprised to finally see a hierarchal setup next month. Perhaps even smart folders.
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post #403 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Let me set you straight: Apple takes telephone capability out of the iPhone software, doesn't incorporate Flash or multitasking (two of the things Apple-haters have been hammering the iPhone and the forthcoming iPad for lately), AND the whole thing won't ship for another 2 or 3 months (provided it doesn't get behind schedule), and THIS is supposed to be "innovation"?!? Seriously?

Color me unimpressed with the 'Pad as well.

Hey, it takes time to inflate iPhone. If you do that too quickly, cracks might appear

Just kiddin'.
post #404 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Before I got my iPhone, I was under the impression that Apple was the king of the UI. But Springboard (again, IMO) sucks big time. I had better app launchers a decade ago on my PalmOS devices. .


I think that APple were taken aback by the success of the SDK and App Store ( remember that they didnt have an DSK at launch - they seemed to be promoting web apps). So yes, springboard is real good for about two pages of apps. Simple. But it degenerates badly after that.

Now you can always search by scrolling left, but nevertheless I am sure they will probably do some grouping in OS 4.0.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #405 of 449
Quote:
They tend to confuse 'poorly designed' with 'advanced'.

Yep. And when they learn the bad UI of windows or the new mobile ( atrocious btw) they are now "smarter" than the "dumb" Apple users.

Dumb Apple users can write complex Unix scripts in Terminal.app ( this is possible also on the iPhone).

Unix scripts are way past the ability of the mediocrities who have come to grips with a registry.

so if they dont want a " toy " - use OS X - a complex Unix based OS.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #406 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yep. And when they learn the bad UI of windows or the new mobile ( atrocious btw) they are now "smarter" than the "dumb" Apple users.

Which parts of the Windows UI and WP7S are atrocious?
post #407 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

Guys, Game changer proclamations or proclamations of Massive Fail on devices that will not be out yet for two months or 10 months are truly pathetic. What may be good on a demo unit might not be good when people start buying a production unit 2 months or ten months from now. Right now, everything about the Windows Phone 7 are smoke and mirrors, same with the iPad, iPhone 4G and iPhone OS4, same with the next Goggle Phone. To be a True game changer, have the damn product out in the wild and we can discuss all about on how awesome or failure the said device one year after they are realeased.

So true.
post #408 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359245,00.asp

"The phones will be owned by OEMs, and you'll see different form factors and choices," Woodman said.

Which by default nullifies any real advantage this device (devices?) could have had.

If I understood correctly, there will be some solid guidelines. Screen resolution and aspect ratio, processing power and graphics, interface (3 buttons). Difference might boil to case shape, colours, material; battery size/life, swappable or not; screen technology (OLED, AMOLED...); brand, of course.

If executed correctly, it will not be different than iPhone OS challenge with different screen sizes and hardware between 2G, 3G, 3Gs, iPad and incoming iPhone 4 (which might end up with different screen and rest of hardware compared to 3Gs).
post #409 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Just because the Zune does not sell as many units as the iPod does not make it unsuccessful. If that is your rational then Apple is very unsuccessful to Microsoft since MS has 97% of the market.

From that comparison it almost sounds like Zune is premium market share for MP3 players?
post #410 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

No, no it's not. It only got the windows branding but it's Zune. And that is made by a totally different team.
They finally did what they should done in the first place which was fire the windows mobile team and let the Zune team take over.

This is an excellent product and I can only hope they execute properly on this one as opposed to Palm's very bad handling of the Pre launch.

Oh how I wishhhhhhhh that Microsoft gets gutsy and actually come out with that Courier....running windows phone 7. I only wished they handed rebranded it windows "phone". What if they wanted to use the OS on devices other than a phone?

If they were to put this OS on a tablet I would buy it 10 times faster than I would an iPad.

Speaking of which, I have a suspicion (at least I hope) that the iPhone OS 4.0 will be very similar and is what the iPad should really have been running in the first place.

I'd really be surprised if MS doesn't come with some sort of tablet based on this. After both Apple and Google are expanding their phone platforms to tablets, it is almost given.

I wouldn't be surprised if the end of this year doesn't bring us both phone and tablet. Considering that phone is announced 9 months in advance, I wouldn't be surprised if there is something else in the sleeve.

Add to that iPhone 4 OS and, presumably, new iPhone device, iPad's take-off and whatever Android update comes from Google... this year will be brilliantly gadget-centric.
post #411 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

http://www.riagenic.com/archives/249

http://www.neowin.net/news/ex-micros...in.net+News%29

Ex-Microsoft employee compares Windows Phone 7 to Vista

By Tom Warren

Scott Barnes, formerly a Microsoft Rich Platform Product Manager (WPF & Silverlight), has voiced his opinions on the Windows Phone 7 user interface (UI).

Barnes covers various topics of thought on the Windows Phone 7 announcements and admits when he initially saw the early specs, whilst he was working at Microsoft, he was "a little jaded with the whole level of commitment to the UX." He compares the new UI to that of the iPhone:

"the UI is trying a little to hard to do the opposite of the iPhone, like its a challenge they need to rise up against. Examples like no Icons, panning up/down instead of left / right for content etc seems to pack a little too much anti-iPhone."

Barnes also feels the Windows Phone 7 launch is similar to Vista. "This is the Windows Vista launch, as after some code resets and downward pressure from above this is almost exactly the same internal conditions Windows Vista team had before their launch, 'get it to market, get it fast and well come back around for the bits we wanted to put in place'."

After playing with a Windows Phone 7 series device I have similar concerns about the user interface. It's fast and gives you a quick overview of information but having to "Pivot" (slide) through panels of information isn't natural and could easily cause usability issues. Sliding to different parts of content is fine in principle, providing you know there's more content to slide to and you have a preview or understanding of what content you can slide to in either direction. I feel that Windows Phone 7 doesn't address this and buries options and content too far into what is referred to as a "Hub".

Microsoft switched their strategy for Windows Mobile approximately two years ago when they decided to "reset". Similar to the Longhorn (Vista) reset and subsequent development of Windows 7, Windows Mobile internal groups went through restructuring and a series of changes designed to improve the development process. I can't help but feel despite this effort, and the tasks involved, that it could be too late. The UI is basic and doesn't offer anything really compelling that makes you want to purchase a Windows Phone 7 device yet. The integration with web services is fantastic and a great step in the right direction but the UI is lacking somewhat. HTC spent years covering up the UI problems in Windows Mobile and Microsoft seems to have addressed this by ensuring every part of the OS now looks the same and functions the same. The problem is by doing this they have lost a great UI that they could have embraced and built upon in partnership with HTC. It's still not fully clear whether HTC will bring a cut down version of Sense to Windows Phone 7. The company could a Start Screen tile or Custom Hub. Loking at Windows Phone 6.5 with the Sense UI and comparing this to Windows Phone 7, I don't get the feeling of "wow" or usability that I get with the HTC Sense bar or impressive weather animations. The rest of the Windows Mobile 6.5 operating system underneath isn't as consistent however, Windows Phone 7 fixes that issue.

Despite my UI reservations, Microsoft has many months until Windows Phone 7 will hit the market. We know very little about how applications will interface with the operating system and which developers plan to create Windows Phone 7 apps. The juicy details of how Windows Phone 7 will position itself in the market won't arrive for another few weeks until MIX 2010 in March. Meanwhile Apple is likely to react to the announcements with its own plans for the iPhone OS 4.0 and next generation iPhone device due in June/July. If Apple has some interesting changes to their iPhone OS and impressive hardware then Microsoft could be on the back foot before Windows Phone 7 Series devices have even shipped.


And now that one ex-employer has said that, we can all calmly go to sleep. All sorted.

But what about that ex-Apple employer who sad he never had or used iPhone, and doesn't worry about it? Shall we sleep on that, too?
post #412 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don't blame me because you communicate no better than an unloved 10yo with ADHD. Instead of your "I didn't mean that" posts, how about actually using your big boy words and saying what you mean.


[CENTER]"Look at me! Look at me!"

Note: If you continue to be caustic and abusive to everyone I'll continue to put the smack down on you.[/CENTER]

Well... you made some threats against his arse, man...
post #413 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Your claims were that it dumbed down, in the sense that it was too easy to use, i.e. your example that your neighbour with down syndrome would easily use it. This doesn't imply anything to do with missing feature, but instead appears to be a complaint about ease of use of the interface itself.

Are there missing feature? Yes, of course. Most have little to do with ease of use. The most glaring have mostly been added (CnP, tethering, VOIP on 3G) and had nothing to do with ease of use.

Which features/functions in particular are missing that you feel were left out in order to make the device easier to use and so dumbed down?

The inability to choose a better icon. The inability to rename icons. The inability to arrange icons where you want them. The inability to arrange icons alphabetically. The inability to leave spaces between icons. The inability to group similar icons into folders. Indeed, the inability to substitute a competent app launcher in place of the dumbed-down Springboard.

The inability to run chosen software in the background. The inability to install software not pre-approved by our iNanny. The inability to delete pre-installed shovelware.

This is all off the top of my head.
post #414 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It seems to me that they could have made it easy to jump to a given page, much like how the scroll bar navigation lets users jump to a given letter. Making it linear access rather than random access seems to turn back the clock too much.

The entire serial-access paradigm of the iPhone drives me nuts. Everything from setting time on the clock to launching an app is done in a serial access manner, instead of a random-access manner.

It is an OK way to choose amongst a limited number of choices, but it is not scalable.
post #415 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This wasn't an issue with v1.0 which only had the one page. With v2.0 did have apps but going through a few pages wasn't a big deal. v3.0 added the search, which is useful, and 2 extra pages even though the actual number of apps you can add is unlimited, but I suspect v4.0 will add an even better method. I wouldn't be surprised to finally see a hierarchal setup next month. Perhaps even smart folders.

We expected that a better UI would be introduced for the 'Pad, but it didn't happen. I am skeptical that they will make the 'Pad UI obsolete before it is even launched. I expect that there will be few major improvements to the iOS UI for a LONG time.
post #416 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Now you can always search by scrolling left, but nevertheless I am sure they will probably do some grouping in OS 4.0.

My take on that is that iOS has a lousy GUI, so they added a command-line interface in an attempt to fix it. IMO, the expectation that typing a memorized app title is a fix to a broken GUI is a step backwards.
post #417 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

We expected that a better UI would be introduced for the 'Pad, but it didn't happen. I am skeptical that they will make the 'Pad UI obsolete before it is even launched. I expect that there will be few major improvements to the iOS UI for a LONG time.

Better doesn't work here. The UI was altered to work for a 10" multitouch display. They use column view not modal for setting and made evolved popover for the more intrinsic iPad-specific apps.

What are you expecting? A new type face? A different arch on the window bubbles? Something that looks so alien and different that it makes basement dwelling geeks spooj their panties? All that is silly.
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post #418 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What are you expecting? A new type face? A different arch on the window bubbles? Something that looks so alien and different that it makes basement dwelling geeks spooj their panties? All that is silly.

I expected a brilliantly designed interface that added most of the missing functionality, all in an easy-to-use and intuitive manner. I guess I expected way too much.

What are you expecting from iOS 4.0?
post #419 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I expected a brilliantly designed interface that added most of the missing functionality, all in an easy-to-use and intuitive manner. I guess I expected way too much.

What are you expecting from iOS 4.0?

It is only iPhone OS 3.2 which is for the iPad development but not the iPhone. Something is off here. Even the iPad simulator says iPhone Simulator.

A couple things to consider... The iPad OS is clearly unique and diverse enough from iPhone OS 3.1 to be its own OS. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone OS 4.0 creates a formal deviation known as iPad OS 1.0.

Also consider that making too many visual changes aren't good for business unless your current model is failing, which this isn't. You have to consider that most people don't like change and if it's too different they may not be able to use it anymore or will simply lose internet.

Finally, there is also the need for Apple to build intelligently, which means they can't travel down unchartered areas too often and then backtrack if it doesn't work out. That has hurt them before. Customers lose faith.

I think it's very possible that 3.2 was just a placeholder for the time being to get devs working on the iPad apps otherwise I see no point in even showing us the device, expect for getting more publishers on board. I think 4.0 will have more user interface changes that you expect but I wouldn't expect anything so sweeping that you'll have to relearn the way it works all over again.


Specifically, there are too many things I want from 4.0, but that doesn't mean I'll throw a fit if they don't appear. Either the device fits my needs or it doesn't. If jailbreaking can offer those features, like backgrounding and rich notifications then I'll do it as I see fit.
  • Intelligent background apps that even my mother can get her head around
  • A rich notification system on the lock screen
  • Complete notification history accessible from any home screen
  • Hierarchal folder system for apps
  • Smart folder option for apps (eg: new apps, games, utilities, weblinks)
  • Method to see how often you use an app, last time you used it, etc. (Similar to Windows Program Manager. Besides helping users organize, it would help Apple to not keep pushing out updates for apps people no longer want/use but have forgotten about)
  • Concatenation of Mail accounts
  • Safari page search
  • Stocks app to ticker on Lock Screen
  • Weather app to finally get GPS capability
  • New Mail to get more than just a vibration.
  • Smart Mail notifications (eg: notify with popover if certain senders or topics come through)
  • Auto-VM for certain phone numbers (eg: Ones that aren't in your contacts go straight to VM)
  • Three-finger swipe of Safari page to switch pages instead of hitting the pages button.
  • Deletion and edit of songs in iPod app, or at least a way to tag a song so you can alter it back in iTunes. (You can already delete videos and podacsts in iPod app)
  • See the iPod music summary (eg: format, bit rate, EQ)
  • Dvorak keyboard layout (more for iPad)
  • Ability for SDK and web devs to choose which keyboard to use (no caps, cap lock on, number pad first, characters greyed out for different fields)
  • More space for storing voicemails
  • Ability to record phone calls with a touch of a button (likely the last thing to happen on this list)
  • Enable disk use

Those are just a few of the things I would like to see, but that doesn't mean I expect to see them.
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post #420 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It is only iPhone OS 3.2 which is for the iPad development but not the iPhone. Something is off here. Even the iPad simulator says iPhone Simulator.

A couple things to consider... The iPad OS is clearly unique and diverse enough from iPhone OS 3.1 to be its own OS. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone OS 4.0 creates a formal deviation known as iPad OS 1.0.

Also consider that making too many visual changes aren't good for business unless your current model is failing, which this isn't. You have to consider that most people don't like change and if it's too different they may not be able to use it anymore or will simply lose internet.

Finally, there is also the need for Apple to build intelligently, which means they can't travel down unchartered areas too often and then backtrack if it doesn't work out. That has hurt them before. Customers lose faith.

I think it's very possible that 3.2 was just a placeholder for the time being to get devs working on the iPad apps otherwise I see no point in even showing us the device, expect for getting more publishers on board. I think 4.0 will have more user interface changes that you expect but I wouldn't expect anything so sweeping that you'll have to relearn the way it works all over again.

All very interesting points.
post #421 of 449
If you haven't already, I suggest reading through this Gizmodo article on the strategy of WP7:

http://gizmodo.com/5473947/microsoft...one-7-strategy

Agree or not with WP7, it's a very good read and breaks WP7 down into all the major parts that make up the whole.

There's definitely potential for something huge here. If MS pulls it off right...
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #422 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

There's definitely potential for something huge here. If MS pulls it off right...

I agree. This is the first time we've seen MS think outside the box in a long time.
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post #423 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I personally think this is a pretty ingeneous way of displaying more information than a pocketable screen size allows. One wide band of all the information related to the subject (apps, pictures, messages, etc), divided up into screen-width chucks that's easy to read an manage.

It's an extension and improvement of what the Android home screen is right now. 3, 5, or even 7 screens side-by-side with all the information that you want. As you scroll to the left or right, you'll notice the background shifts slightly in that direction.

I've always figured MS had something up their sleeves when they used this style on the ZHD. Like you said, it makes me want to scroll in the direction the text is cut off in to see what's there when it becomes revealed.

Yes, I was also thinking Zune HD was sort of test platform. Not test in terms of commercial success, but test in terms of user experience. That might be a reason why MS didn't make even an effort to cover other markets on launch - it was like volume-limited beta program.

Because they must have got W7M at the time in some reasonably mature stage of development. They wanted to see how people will react to UI. Reaction was, in general, positive, so they proceeded with project. If reaction was bad, they would (possibly?) scrap UI and go for something else. Much as we know (or don't know), they could have more than one UI competing for the title.
post #424 of 449
definitely potential for something huge....
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post #425 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

  • Intelligent background apps that even my mother can get her head around
  • A rich notification system on the lock screen
  • Complete notification history accessible from any home screen
  • Hierarchal folder system for apps
  • Smart folder option for apps (eg: new apps, games, utilities, weblinks)
  • Method to see how often you use an app, last time you used it, etc. (Similar to Windows Program Manager. Besides helping users organize, it would help Apple to not keep pushing out updates for apps people no longer want/use but have forgotten about)
  • Concatenation of Mail accounts
  • Safari page search
  • Stocks app to ticker on Lock Screen
  • Weather app to finally get GPS capability
  • New Mail to get more than just a vibration.
  • Smart Mail notifications (eg: notify with popover if certain senders or topics come through)
  • Auto-VM for certain phone numbers (eg: Ones that aren't in your contacts go straight to VM)
  • Three-finger swipe of Safari page to switch pages instead of hitting the pages button.
  • Deletion and edit of songs in iPod app, or at least a way to tag a song so you can alter it back in iTunes. (You can already delete videos and podacsts in iPod app)
  • See the iPod music summary (eg: format, bit rate, EQ)
  • Dvorak keyboard layout (more for iPad)
  • Ability for SDK and web devs to choose which keyboard to use (no caps, cap lock on, number pad first, characters greyed out for different fields)
  • More space for storing voicemails
  • Ability to record phone calls with a touch of a button (likely the last thing to happen on this list)
  • Enable disk use

Those are just a few of the things I would like to see, but that doesn't mean I expect to see them.

That stuff all looks great.

But what I asked is nat what you would like to see, but instead, what you expect to see.

My expectations for the iPad were clearly too high.
post #426 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

That stuff all looks great.

But what I asked is nat what you would like to see, but instead, what you expect to see.

My expectations for the iPad were clearly too high.

For each or those items I have a 0% to 100% rating on actual expectation but it's based on a gut feeling with limited data based on Apple's history and what other mobile OSes are doing so it doesn't amount to much.
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post #427 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Specifically, there are too many things I want from 4.0, but that doesn't mean I'll throw a fit if they don't appear. Either the device fits my needs or it doesn't. If jailbreaking can offer those features, like backgrounding and rich notifications then I'll do it as I see fit.
  • Intelligent background apps that even my mother can get her head around
  • A rich notification system on the lock screen
  • Complete notification history accessible from any home screen
  • Hierarchal folder system for apps
  • Smart folder option for apps (eg: new apps, games, utilities, weblinks)
  • Method to see how often you use an app, last time you used it, etc. (Similar to Windows Program Manager. Besides helping users organize, it would help Apple to not keep pushing out updates for apps people no longer want/use but have forgotten about)
  • Concatenation of Mail accounts
  • Safari page search
  • Stocks app to ticker on Lock Screen
  • Weather app to finally get GPS capability
  • New Mail to get more than just a vibration.
  • Smart Mail notifications (eg: notify with popover if certain senders or topics come through)
  • Auto-VM for certain phone numbers (eg: Ones that aren't in your contacts go straight to VM)
  • Three-finger swipe of Safari page to switch pages instead of hitting the pages button.
  • Deletion and edit of songs in iPod app, or at least a way to tag a song so you can alter it back in iTunes. (You can already delete videos and podacsts in iPod app)
  • See the iPod music summary (eg: format, bit rate, EQ)
  • Dvorak keyboard layout (more for iPad)
  • Ability for SDK and web devs to choose which keyboard to use (no caps, cap lock on, number pad first, characters greyed out for different fields)
  • More space for storing voicemails
  • Ability to record phone calls with a touch of a button (likely the last thing to happen on this list)
  • Enable disk use

Those are just a few of the things I would like to see, but that doesn't mean I expect to see them.

All good. I'd add:
  • "Toggle" widgets that can appear as icons to turn features on\\off (i.e. 3G, WiFi, Location etc)
  • Scheduled switch on\\off for features. i.e. I don't need WiFi\\location\\3G on between 12pm and 6am.
  • Ability to choose different tones for all notifications!
  • Backup of game saves
  • A "game mode" that closes off everything and disables calls.
post #428 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

All good. I'd add:
  • "Toggle" widgets that can appear as icons to turn features on\\off (i.e. 3G, WiFi, Location etc)
  • Scheduled switch on\\off for features. i.e. I don't need WiFi\\location\\3G on between 12pm and 6am.
  • Ability to choose different tones for all notifications!
  • Backup of game saves
  • A "game mode" that closes off everything and disables calls.

I can't comment on the games since I'm not really a gamer, but I really like the other ideas.

It would be great not to have to go into Settings for these common switches, like WiFi. I'm not sure how well the edge of the touchscreen works or if it's a feasible idea, but if they can make the icons up there touch sensitive for drop down menus that would be perfect for me.
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post #429 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

The inability to choose a better icon. The inability to rename icons. The inability to arrange icons where you want them. The inability to arrange icons alphabetically. The inability to leave spaces between icons. The inability to group similar icons into folders. Indeed, the inability to substitute a competent app launcher in place of the dumbed-down Springboard.

The inability to run chosen software in the background. The inability to install software not pre-approved by our iNanny. The inability to delete pre-installed shovelware.

This is all off the top of my head.

I certainly hope those were off the top off your head.

Most of your complaints centre around superficial UI elements. Since one doesn't have access to a file system, renaming of files becomes sort of a perplexing request. Actually, your complaint was the inability to rename icons. Do you rename icons on other OSes much? Strange.

Let's looks at the rest:
The inability to choose a better icon.
Yup, that would certainly make it a more intelligent UI.

The inability to arrange icons where you want them. The inability to arrange icons alphabetically. The inability to leave spaces between icons. The inability to group similar icons into folders.
So, really what you are looking for is Explorer/Finder, with windowed, columnar views. Hardly an optimal interface for small screens. I would also like some sort of grouping, but it is hardly 'dumbing down' to omit it.

Indeed, the inability to substitute a competent app launcher in place of the dumbed-down Springboard.
There are improvements that could be made. Repeatedly using silly adjectives like 'dumbed-down' still doesn't make expand your point.

The inability to run chosen software in the background. The inability to install software not pre-approved by our iNanny. The inability to delete pre-installed shovelware.

Absolutely, completely unrelated to your assertion that the UI is 'dumbed down'.


In the end, most of your complaints seem to have more to do with preferences for different UI choices than what Apple choose, that have little to do with 'dumb' or not, or the ability to tweak. None of them really, other than perhaps grouping and the app launcher, would really seem to making the interface more powerful.

I completely agree with you that the UI could be improved. I think it is juvenile to repeatedly call it dumbed down, simply because your tastes are different. Sort of like my wife's 12 year old nephew who calls everything he doesn't like 'gay' or 'retarded'. You are left wondering when he'll actually put some thought into explaining his opinions instead of goofy insults.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #430 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Do you rename icons on other OSes much? Strange.

All the time. I've never really needed to on the iPhone though because I tend to look for the icon graphic rather than the text, which is lucky because a lot of apps do have silly cut-off names.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

In the end, most of your complaints seem to have more to do with preferences for different UI choices than what Apple choose, that have little to do with 'dumb' or not, or the ability to tweak.

It's a touchy subject. Apple does purposefully block user configuration options. Some people see this as a good thing and say that it is a "clean" or "easy to use" interface. Others get upset at Apple's perceived lack of trust to actually know what is good for oneself or, if they are more abrasive, say that it is "dumbed down". I'm not sure where the truth lies, I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are.
post #431 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

All the time. I've never really needed to on the iPhone though because I tend to look for the icon graphic rather than the text, which is lucky because a lot of apps do have silly cut-off names.

I assume you actually rename files and not icons. Not that you couldn't rename an icon file, but since you can't access files on the iPhone, renaming files is a strange request...unless you has access to files. Sort of like you don't 'run' icons, you run apps.

As for renaming apps, which seems to be his actual request, how often do you really rename exe's or .apps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It's a touchy subject. Apple does purposefully block user configuration options. Some people see this as a good thing and say that it is a "clean" or "easy to use" interface. Others get upset at Apple's perceived lack of trust to actually know what is good for oneself or, if they are more abrasive, say that it is "dumbed down". I'm not sure where the truth lies, I suppose it depends on what kind of person you are.

Locked down is distinctly different than dumbed down. Whether it is the UI, System behavior, the SDK or allowed apps, exerting draconian control, as I feel they do, isn't 'dumbing it down', it is denying choice.

The original complaint is that the UI is so easy to use that a person with down syndrome could use it, hence it must be dumbed down. Not only does that seem to be simply trolling without thinking through the complaint, it doesn't take into account the difficulty in creating a UI that anyone can quickly understand. That is hardly dumbed down...in fact the more intuitive, easy and clean an interface is actually speaks more to the intelligence that went into designing it. It take a lot more to make an interface easy to use and understand.

I commend Apple for the advances in mobile interfaces they have brought to market. At the same time, I hope for them to loosen their overly tight restrictions and controls over how we are able to use our devices. Most of the restrictions/controls that people complain about have nothing to do with ease of use/dumbing down of the UI, but instead have to do with functionality and features that are/were missing or prohibited for reasons completely unrelated to ease of use (i.e. tethering, CnP, fully compliant Blutooth, VOIP over 3G, ridiculously banned apps, etc).

iGenious' only complaints that validly related to UI decisions that hinder productivity and so could be considered a 'dumbing down' of the UI would be his request for app grouping and springboard.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #432 of 449
Do you rename icons on other OSes much? Strange. [/QUOTE]

No, not much. Indeed, rarely. But on the iPhone, the Boston Business Journal app is called "Boston". I have referred to the paper as the BBJ for decades. I would like to rename the icon BBJ. But that seems impossible on the iPhone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Let's looks at the rest:
The inability to choose a better icon.
Yup, that would certainly make it a more intelligent UI.

I would choose a different adjective. But yes, it would make for a better user experience.

If you don't like dumbed-down, how about simplistic? Or lacking in features?
post #433 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


No, not much. Indeed, rarely. But on the iPhone, the Boston Business Journal app is called "Boston". I have referred to the paper as the BBJ for decades. I would like to rename the icon BBJ. But that seems impossible on the iPhone.

I would choose a different adjective. But yes, it would make for a better user experience.

If you don't like dumbed-down, how about simplistic? Or lacking in features?

"More customizable or tweak friendly" might be more appropriate. Apple has always been resistant to customizations, themes, tweaks, rightly or wrongly. They like to lock things down, even in the UI. I don't always agree with these decisions, but it is their way.

Simplified does have to mean, nor does it even generally mean dumbed down. Keeping a UI clean and simple can take a lot of work and effort. You generally seem to simply have different tastes for what the UI should look like and allow and quite rightfully so. But the difference in taste doesn't have to mean resorting to ill-thought out comments calling it downed down. The simplicity of the UI is a big part of what makes it advanced.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #434 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Simplified does have to mean, nor does it even generally mean dumbed down. Keeping a UI clean and simple can take a lot of work and effort. You generally seem to simply have different tastes for what the UI should look like and allow and quite rightfully so. But the difference in taste doesn't have to mean resorting to ill-thought out comments calling it downed down. The simplicity of the UI is a big part of what makes it advanced.

It is my impression that lots of stuff is left off the iDevices due to the fear that naive users could get into trouble. At least, that is what I am told here.

If, indeed, the reasons for simplification are to protect the unsophisticated, or the naive, or the simply stupid, then I believe my choice of descriptor is apt.
post #435 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I assume you actually rename files and not icons.

You assume incorrectly By "renaming an icon" I mean to "edit the text that appears below the icon".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Locked down is distinctly different than dumbed down.

Like I said, it's a perspective thing. I'm not trying to argue the point with you because I don't have an opinion either way, but I do know plenty of people that have the same ideas as iGenius and I understand where their opinions are coming from. "Dumbed down" is such an ambiguous term that debating over the definition would just go around in circles.

At the end of the day all I'm hoping for is a really good v4.0 iOS update.
post #436 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Simplified does have to mean, nor does it even generally mean dumbed down.

Absolutely. Seemingly, Apple's solution is not elegance, but instead, lopping off functionality.
post #437 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

At the end of the day all I'm hoping for is a really good v4.0 iOS update.

Me too. But then again, I was hoping for a really good tablet computer too.

I'm not getting my hopes up again, not when it comes to Apple. Now I expect 4.0 to include more eye candy and less useful stuff. I don't expect the iOS to catch up to Android anytime soon.
post #438 of 449
Quote:
IMO, the expectation that typing a memorized app title is a fix to a broken GUI is a step backwards.

Not at all, even with folders ( which I agree with) scrolling left and typing will be faster than burrowing down. Certainly that will be the case for large numbers of apps.

What I would like to see would be the ability to automatically sort the front page by use ( at the user's request). After all the front page is pretty much the quickest access point, and i dont use the calculator app much, and I am prepared to search for it. I bet they will bring that in.

Solipism's idea that there will be a 4.0 before , or just after the release of the iPad is almost certainly true. There isnt enough there.

That said some of what he wants is in 3.2. NDA precludes talk about what exactly but it is available in MR Google.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #439 of 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What I would like to see would be the ability to automatically get sort the front page by use. After all the front page is pretty much the quickest access point, and i dont use the calculator app much, and I am prepared to search for it. I bet they will bring that in.

Or at least a smart folder system for certain app categories, like the last 15 used (or the last 15 used that aren't on the 1st Home Page), smart folders for each App Store category (eg: Games, Sports, News, Productivity) and others, like apps you've never used or haven't used in a long time. These could be turned on/off and configured through Settings and then you could move them to the place you want them on the Home Pages.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #440 of 449
I finally got round to watching the entire MS presentation from Barcelona and I have to say it's very, very impressive stuff. Really forward thinking and very original. Even little things like the ability of third party apps (such as internet radio) to plug right into the main audio player for a totally seamless experience. It's worlds apart from the segregated app world of the iPhone.

I was thinking of switching to a Nexus One but I'm tempted to wait for Windows Phone 7 to come out now, and of course iPhone version 4. Interesting times ahead.
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