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The rising tide of left wing extremism and violence - Page 5

post #161 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

There was a time when left-wing violence was the rule - the 1960s and 1970s. There were bombings, kidnappings, and vandalism, in the name of left-wing principles. Bill Ayers, supposedly Obama's buddy in Chicago, was a bona fide left-wing terrorist.

Now we're in an era of right wing violence - bombing of the OK city federal building, driving a plane into the Texas IRS building, assassinating doctors, bombing the Atlanta Olympics, not to mention all the minor incidents like we've seen this past week.

The Department of Homeland Security warned last year that this trend would start to rise again with Obama running for president.

That doesn't mean that there aren't exaggerations and counter-examples, but there are clear historical trends, and this is one of them.

Thank you for the concise, clear and mainly unbiased point. Refreshing, truly... I think there will be disagreement on the IRS crasher being right wing still, but overall, a breath of fresh air...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #162 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

There was a time when left-wing violence was the rule - the 1960s and 1970s. There were bombings, kidnappings, and vandalism, in the name of left-wing principles. Bill Ayers, supposedly Obama's buddy in Chicago, was a bona fide left-wing terrorist.

Now we're in an era of right wing violence - bombing of the OK city federal building, driving a plane into the Texas IRS building, assassinating doctors, bombing the Atlanta Olympics, not to mention all the minor incidents like we've seen this past week.

The Department of Homeland Security warned last year that this trend would start to rise again with Obama running for president.

That doesn't mean that there aren't exaggerations and counter-examples, but there are clear historical trends, and this is one of them.

Why are most of your examples at least a decade old?

How is a claim about a broken window the same as blowing up a building?

I don't think I've seen a worse attempt to conflate two things in recent memory.

Finally shouldn't there at least be proof of people participating in these actions before blame is assigned? If a Congressmen claims a racial epitaph and we see to other either staffers or fellow Congressional Black Caucus members walking with him holding videocameras shouldn't they provide more than an allegation before being given credence? I guess it is that whole facing your accuser thing but I find it a bit odd that man being followed by a police officer and with two videocameras in tow can't provide some proof or get an arrest made.

The real trend is excusing actions due to the intent game. That is the clear pattern. Thomas was a womanizer and harasser due to one claim from one woman. Clinton clearly was abusing power and is the classic definition of sexual harassment and NOW and others excuse it due to him being a Democrat. Obama promises transparency, to post bills for five days, to have more ethical administration and of course no lobbying allowed. He forgoes all of those things and it is just fine. Pelosi promises to drain the swamp and has multiple parties with huge ethical and legal issues. Both the Senate and House Dems have gone from wanting to keep the filibuster to being ready to "deem" bills passed without a full vote on them. They have also clearly proven that nothing is off limits in a power grab be it an underage pregnant daughter, a child with down syndrome, all manner of false allegations, you name it.

The most frightening thing about all of this is that they continue to try to hoist others upon their own petards while completely ignoring such things for themselves. We've seen the reasoning here from several members. It doesn't become whether the left or right is engaging in a certain bad action. By definition to them, the bad action is defined as right wing and thus the left is completely incapable of it. When I posted the Kinsley piece where he fretted about inflation it was very telling that he noted his friend called him a name related to that concern. It is the scariest sort of blinders imaginable.

You can't be a warmonger doubling down on a failing war in a country we shouldn't be in while the Wall Street guys in your administration play the stock market and we all suffer under $3 gas and be left wing. Yet that is exactly what Obama is doing and no one on the left can call him on it. The two wars that were bankrupting us under Bush are spending even more under Obama yet Obama is just desiring peace, the money isn't a concern. He's just fixing the problem by doubling the troops and adding to the costs, and.... it is astonishing. Democrats can't be bankrupting the country. They can't engage in bad war or bad foreign policy. They can't be racist or violent. Those are all defined as right wing by the caricature crew.

You note the historical and contemporary examples and it is like they just repeat the mantra to themselves of the caricature. Bush blood for oil, lied people died, stole election, tax cuts for rich, Katrina, hates black people. It cannot even be penetrated. You go into the history and they say why do you want to discuss the past. You discuss Bush and they dismiss it as a giant wrong to be remedied. You discuss Obama and you've prejudged him and you have to give him eight years before any judgment can be wrought and you're just negative and hateful and racist from day one.

It is an incredibly scary, self reinforcing delusion.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #163 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

There was a time when left-wing violence was the rule - the 1960s and 1970s. There were bombings, kidnappings, and vandalism, in the name of left-wing principles. Bill Ayers, supposedly Obama's buddy in Chicago, was a bona fide left-wing terrorist.

Now we're in an era of right wing violence - bombing of the OK city federal building, driving a plane into the Texas IRS building, assassinating doctors, bombing the Atlanta Olympics, not to mention all the minor incidents like we've seen this past week.

The Department of Homeland Security warned last year that this trend would start to rise again with Obama running for president.

That doesn't mean that there aren't exaggerations and counter-examples, but there are clear historical trends, and this is one of them.

And to help make my point where did we go after all of this violence by the left?

To the right because basically it turns voters off.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #164 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Why are most of your examples at least a decade old?

This is my quote: "bombing of the OK city federal building, driving a plane into the Texas IRS building, assassinating doctors, bombing the Atlanta Olympics, not to mention all the minor incidents like we've seen this past week"

bombing of the OK city federal building: 1990s
Texas IRS building: 2010
Assassinating doctors: most recent, 2009.
Atlanta Olympics: 1990s
Minor incidents this past week: this past week.

I'm trying to establish that there was a long-term trend 40 years ago of left-wing violence, and a long-term trend of right-wing violence that we're in the middle of now. It also is pretty obvious to note that there was an upswing in right-wing violence during the previous Democratic president 10 years ago, and another rise in it now.

The rest of your post is... off-topic, to put it nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

And to help make my point where did we go after all of this violence by the left?

To the right because basically it turns voters off.

Exactly right. Unfortunately, the difference between then and now is that the media and politicians at the time didn't side with the left-wing violence. I'm not sure that these right-wingers will be relegated to the radical fringe like the left-wingers were. Instead, they're just going to be legitimized as having an understandable though unfortunate reaction to those NAZI OBAMUNNISTS!
post #165 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

This is my quote: "bombing of the OK city federal building, driving a plane into the Texas IRS building, assassinating doctors, bombing the Atlanta Olympics, not to mention all the minor incidents like we've seen this past week"

bombing of the OK city federal building: 1990s
Texas IRS building: 2010
Assassinating doctors: most recent, 2009.
Atlanta Olympics: 1990s
Minor incidents this past week: this past week.

I'm trying to establish that there was a long-term trend 40 years ago of left-wing violence, and a long-term trend of right-wing violence that we're in the middle of now. It also is pretty obvious to note that there was an upswing in right-wing violence during the previous Democratic president 10 years ago, and another rise in it now.

The rest of your post is... off-topic, to put it nicely.

The point though it isn't unless like yourself, one is willing to equate alleged broken windows with assassination and bombing buildings. There are still continual acts of environmental terrorism going on and the number of arrests and amount of property damage is going up, not down.

Likewise the level of treatment is not the same. There are more windows broken by lefists and anarchists protesting meeting for a trade agreement than have been alleged broken by all tea party members ever. I can do the same thing with immigration protests. Every time one occurs, like this one, there are a small number of arrests, a small number of threats and a small amount of vandalism or violence. I remember a large number of such protests in 2006. Do you? Where were the stories and follow ups of a large and rising violent and extremist immigration faction?

The difference is the mass media isn't trying to claim the violence is rising and that the violence is a mass movement. They refuse to apply the exception as the rule, just like you refuse, because they are in agreement with the political aims of the persons engaging in such actions.

Take all the damage, arrests and violence put out there by the ALF and ELF, the protests for various trade and economic accords and finally for all immigration rallys and put it against the tea party movement. I have no doubt who will win that comparison. Likewise I have no doubt when the total numbers are compared who would have been more violent, had more arrests and who caused more destruction.

The pattern is there and is clear for the left. It hasn't gone away or disappeared.

Quote:
The group was dressed entirely in black with bandanas over their faces and signs read "Assassinate Arpaio" and other anarchist messages.

They had been jawing with police for most of the afternoon, chanting profanities at officers and throwing bottles at them near the beginning of the march.

The marchers began to cut off a utility cart that had been riding alongside the demonstration and police brought in a mounted officer to separate the protestors from the officer. The crowd surrounded the horse and a few protestors hit the animal with sticks that had black flags on them.

Two other police officers were assaulted by the suspects who threw water bottles, possibly containing rocks, police said. The bottles missed.

Again, this happens all the time on the left. It doesn't even raise an eyebrow. Should I go dig up the photos of various trade talk protests and show how every shop in those downtown areas have had their windows boarded up preemptively and how violence still occurred? It isn't hard to find. All the is different is who is connecting the dots and the picture they are trying to make with those dots.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #166 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

This is my quote: "bombing of the OK city federal building, driving a plane into the Texas IRS building, assassinating doctors, bombing the Atlanta Olympics, not to mention all the minor incidents like we've seen this past week"

bombing of the OK city federal building: 1990s
Texas IRS building: 2010
Assassinating doctors: most recent, 2009.
Atlanta Olympics: 1990s
Minor incidents this past week: this past week.

I'm trying to establish that there was a long-term trend 40 years ago of left-wing violence, and a long-term trend of right-wing violence that we're in the middle of now. It also is pretty obvious to note that there was an upswing in right-wing violence during the previous Democratic president 10 years ago, and another rise in it now.

The rest of your post is... off-topic, to put it nicely.

Exactly right. Unfortunately, the difference between then and now is that the media and politicians at the time didn't side with the left-wing violence. I'm not sure that these right-wingers will be relegated to the radical fringe like the left-wingers were. Instead, they're just going to be legitimized as having an understandable though unfortunate reaction to those NAZI OBAMUNNISTS!

Well I haven't read any articles about the current situation yet that were not condeming the violence and even as much as saying it will hurt in Nov.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #167 of 361
Thread Starter 
BTW, none of this exists.

http://cbs2.com/local/Proposition.8.....2.850469.html

http://www.ocregister.com/news/macdo...ne-police.html

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/D...aspx?id=308506

I can dig up plenty more. Prop 8 was very contentious and there were many protests, arrests, vandalism, and even demands for the addresses and workplaces of supporters to harass them there.

Where were the stories of a rising tide of gay pride or religious based violence from the left? Oh wait... that doesn't exist.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #168 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

BTW, none of this exists.

http://cbs2.com/local/Proposition.8.....2.850469.html

http://www.ocregister.com/news/macdo...ne-police.html

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/D...aspx?id=308506

I can dig up plenty more. Prop 8 was very contentious and there were many protests, arrests, vandalism, and even demands for the addresses and workplaces of supporters to harass them there.

Where were the stories of a rising tide of gay pride or religious based violence from the left? Oh wait... that doesn't exist.

trumptman why are you examples from 2 years ago?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #169 of 361

These are all exceptions and prove nothing.
post #170 of 361
So now Anarchists are "Left-wingers". Riiight.
post #171 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So now Anarchists are "Left-wingers". Riiight.

Unless you want to redefine the category, it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Don't worry if you do want to redefine it - it's pretty common here to do so.
post #172 of 361
Etymology and terminology

Quote:
The term anarchism derives from the Greek ἄναρχος, anarchos, meaning "without rulers", from the prefix ἀν- (an-, "without") + ἀρχή (archê, "sovereignty, realm, magistracy") + -ισμός (-ismos, from the suffix -ιζειν, -izein "-izing"). There is some ambiguity with the use of the terms "libertarianism" and "libertarian" in writings about anarchism. Since the 1890s from France, the term "libertarianism" has often been used as a synonym for anarchism and was used almost exclusively in this sense until the 1950s in the United States; its use as a synonym is still common outside the United States. Accordingly, "libertarian socialism" is sometimes used as a synonym for socialist anarchism, to distinguish it from "individualist libertarianism" (individualist anarchism). On the other hand, some use "libertarianism" to refer to individualistic free-market philosophy only, referring to free-market anarchism as "libertarian anarchism."

So that would make Alex Jones and Ron Paul anarchists.
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post #173 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Unless you want to redefine the category, it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Don't worry if you do want to redefine it - it's pretty common here to do so.

I'm talking in terms of American politics, right now.

So which is it? Are Liberals "Pro-big Government" or are they "Anarchists"?

It's convenient to you to pretend that they can sometimes be one and sometimes be another, but it only served to expose your utterly unfailing lack of logic in your extreme bias.
post #174 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

So that would make Alex Jones and Ron Paul anarchists.

They are. But they are not "left-wing".
post #175 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

They are. But they are not "left-wing".

Like I said, it's pretty common. Don't worry, folks aren't paying attention.
post #176 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Unless you want to redefine the category, it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Don't worry if you do want to redefine it - it's pretty common here to do so.

You've noticed that trend as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Etymology and terminology

So that would make Alex Jones and Ron Paul anarchists.

Your own link notes that the definition used outside the U.S. is not used within U.S. political discussion nor understood that way since 1950. It is underlined in your own quote for goodness sakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'm talking in terms of American politics, right now.

So which is it? Are Liberals "Pro-big Government" or are they "Anarchists"?

It's convenient to you to pretend that they can sometimes be one and sometimes be another, but it only served to expose your utterly unfailing lack of logic in your extreme bias.

They are pro-state but when they feel the state is not taking action then they will take action themselves against what they feel are corporates acting against the interests of the people and in opposition to the state as well which either cannot or will not stop them. That is precisely the mindset behind groups like ALF/ELF.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #177 of 361
Thread Starter 
Talking Points Memo - Live Wire

Quote:
Today, a two-count complaint and warrant was filed charging Norman Leboon with threatening to kill United States Congressman Eric Cantor and his family, and threatening to kill Congressman Eric Cantor, who is an official of the United States, announced United States Attorney Michael L. Levy and FBI Special Agent in Charge Jan Fedarcyk. As set forth in the affidavit to the complaint and warrant, in or about late March, 2010, Leboon created and then transmitted a YouTube video to Google over the internet, in which he threatened to kill Congressman Cantor and his family. No harm came to the Congressman or his family as a result of Leboon's threats.

"The Department of Justice takes threats against government officials seriously, especially threats to kill or injure others," said Levy. "Whether the reason for the threat is personal or political, threats are not protected by the First Amendment and are crimes."

Hey not just some random action, an arrest and a name. Anyone from the left on here willing to condemn this guy?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #178 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Talking Points Memo - Live Wire



Hey not just some random action, an arrest and a name. Anyone from the left on here willing to condemn this guy?

Ha! Of course. I think you're projecting: It's you who goes into contortions denying right-wing violence. I've acknowledged bona fide left-wing violence and you've just flipped out at any mention of obvious right-wing violence.

We're talking about a pattern of violent incitement in the mainstream of conservatism, which doesn't exist in mainstream liberalism. There are always kooks - many of whom target both sides, like this guy, apparently. If any Democratic politician justifies or blames Cantor for this, I'll be shocked, because that's not something that exists in mainstream liberalism, not like it does in conservatism, when people (including you) repeatedly justify and minimize right-wing violence.
post #179 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Ha! Of course. I think you're projecting: It's you who goes into contortions denying right-wing violence. I've acknowledged bona fide left-wing violence and you've just flipped out at any mention of obvious right-wing violence.

We're talking about a pattern of violent incitement in the mainstream of conservatism, which doesn't exist in mainstream liberalism. There are always kooks - many of whom target both sides, like this guy, apparently. If any Democratic politician justifies or blames Cantor for this, I'll be shocked, because that's not something that exists in mainstream liberalism, not like it does in conservatism, when people (including you) repeatedly justify and minimize right-wing violence.

So is that a condemnation or not?

First, get over yourself with the accusations. I'll call the exception what it is and call the rule what it is as well which is the exact rationalization you've just applied above. So whatever claim you've made about me, apply to yourself.

There is NO repeat, NO proof that there is more violence on the right or that it is a norm. You repeated this point but offered no proof. You provided a nice narrative which was easily dispelled and I've provided dozens of examples that would be impossible and can't exist given your claims about the left and their lack of violence. In fact I've shown the violence to be such a norm, that reporting on it doesn't occur since it is just expected. Death threats of a local sheriff or vandalism related to a leftist cause, non-news since it is the norm.

As for minimizing it, people were already dismissing the bullet as accidental. They were accusing him of attempting to do a tit for tat or grab attention for himself. An arrest has been made and amazingly enough that still hasn't happened for all these claimed actions on the left. We have multiple videos and a $10,000 reward but still can't find that racial slur supposedly uttered.

Violence exists and is increasingly the norm for mainstream liberalism. Those with blinders on just dismiss it or rationalize it away. Anyone with half a memory can easily find the comparable examples and note the non-reaction around them due to political agreement or due to it simply not being the exception but the rule. Keith Olbermann spreads his hate nightly. Bill Maher and his angry rants are just a norm. Caricature and hate aren't the exception for the left, they are an hour of programming or two nightly.

We've been watching a few people have a little fun on here with the reloaded statement of Palin. CNN claimed it was inciting violence.

Yet those of us with half a brain can remember these apparently non-inciting quotes from then candidate Obama who is now President Obama.

If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, Obama said in Philadelphia last night. Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. Ive seen Eagles fans.


I can remember Obama telling his supporters to "Get in their faces!"


Also someone is breaking glass at Republican headquarters too.


Good luck finding that and analysis on it by the liberal media complex rhetorically questioning about the rising tide of violence that actually is occurring on the left.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #180 of 361
03/02/2010

New SPLC Report: "Patriot" Groups, Militias Surge in Number in Past Year

MONTGOMERY, Ala. - The number of extremist groups in the United States exploded in 2009 as militias and other groups steeped in wild, antigovernment conspiracy theories exploited populist anger across the country and infiltrated the mainstream, according to a report issued today by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

Antigovernment "Patriot" groups - militias and other extremist organizations that see the federal government as their enemy - came roaring back to life over the past year after more than a decade out of the limelight.

The SPLC documented a 244 percent increase in the number of active Patriot groups in 2009. Their numbers grew from 149 groups in 2008 to 512 groups in 2009, an astonishing addition of 363 new groups in a single year. Militias - the paramilitary arm of the Patriot movement - were a major part of the increase, growing from 42 militias in 2008 to 127 in 2009.

The report, "Rage on the Right," is the cover story in the Spring 2010 issue of the SPLC's quarterly investigative journal Intelligence Report.

Patriot groups have been fueled by anger over the changing demographics of the country, the soaring public debt, the troubled economy and an array of initiatives by President Obama that have been branded "socialist" or even "fascist" by his political opponents.

"This extraordinary growth is a cause for grave concern," said Intelligence Report editor Mark Potok. "The people associated with the Patriot movement during its 1990s heyday produced an enormous amount of violence, most dramatically the Oklahoma City bombing that left 168 people dead."

The Patriot movement has made significant inroads into the conservative political scene, according to the new report. "The tea parties' and similar groups that have sprung up in recent months cannot fairly be considered extremist groups, but they are shot through with rich veins of radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism," the report says.

Unlike the 1990s, the Patriot movement's central ideas are being promoted by people with large audiences, such as FOX News' Glenn Beck and U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota. Beck, for instance, reinvigorated a key Patriot conspiracy theory - the charge that the Federal Emergency Management Agency is secretly running concentration camps - before finally "debunking" it.

The growth of Patriot groups comes at a time when the number of racist hate groups stayed at record levels - rising from 926 in 2008 to 932 in 2009, according to the report. The increase caps a decade in which the number of hate groups surged by 55 percent. The expansion would have been much greater in 2009 if not for the demise of the American National Socialist Workers Party, a key neo-Nazi network whose founder was arrested in October 2008.

There also has been a surge in "nativist extremist" groups - vigilante organizations that go beyond advocating strict immigration policy and actually confront or harass suspected immigrants. These groups grew from 173 groups in 2008 to 309 in 2009, a rise of nearly 80 percent.

These three strands of the radical right - the hate groups, the nativist extremist groups, and the Patriot organizations - are the most volatile elements on the American political landscape. Taken together, their numbers increased by more than 40 percent, rising from 1,248 groups in 2008 to 1,753 last year.

There are already signs of radical right violence reminiscent of the 1990s. Right-wing extremists have murdered six law enforcement officers since Obama's inauguration. Racist skinheads and others have been arrested in alleged plots to assassinate the president. Most recently, as recounted in the new issue of the Intelligence Report, a number of individuals with antigovernment, survivalist or racist views have been arrested in a series of bomb cases.

The hate groups listed in this report include neo-Nazis, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, Klansmen and black separatists. Other hate groups target gays or immigrants, and some specialize in producing racist music or propaganda denying the Holocaust. A list and interactive, state-by-state map of active hate groups can be viewed here.
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post #181 of 361
Thread Starter 
It's hilarious when you label the SPLC as objective. Want to see some exploding numbers, look at the hate crimes they don't even see or report.

Quote:
The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) is an American liberal[1] non-profit legal advocacy organization, internationally known for its tolerance education programs,[2] its legal victories against white supremacists and its tracking of organizations it calls hate groups.[2]

From your favorite source of course Mr. Frank Sargent.

Quote:
Professors of sociology Betty A. Dobratz, (Iowa State University) and Stephanie L. Shanks-Meile, (University of Nebraska-Lincoln), wrote about SPLC and several other “watchdog” groups: “What the ‘watchdog’ groups focus on is at least partially influenced by the fact that these organizations depend on public financial support, and the public is likely to contribute to groups that they perceive are struggling against some major threat to America. We relied on SPLC and ADL reports for general information, but we have noticed differences between ways events have been reported and what we saw at rallies. For instance, events were sometimes portrayed in Klanwatch Intelligence Reports as more militant and dangerous with higher turnouts than we observed.”[73]

Lastly....

Quote:
In 1996 USA Today claimed the SPLC "the nation's richest civil rights organization", with $68 million in assets at the time.[102] In 2000, Harper's Magazine published an article by Ken Silverstein critical of the SPLC noting the poor ratings from charity ranking organizations and that it spent as much money on fundraising as it did legal action.[103] In 2007 Silverstein published a follow-up noting that he felt the imbalance was still present and the group had only been more successful in fundraising since and their endowment likewise had grown exponentially.[104]

Everytime the SPLC screams racism, it is like a cash register going "ka-ching" for them. They are biased. Their numbers are wrong and instead of fixing a problem they profit from it. No wonder some people love them as a source.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #182 of 361
The Year in Hate and Extremism

By Mark Potok

The radical right caught fire last year, as broad-based populist anger at political, demographic and economic changes in America ignited an explosion of new extremist groups and activism across the nation.

Hate groups stayed at record levels — almost 1,000 — despite the total collapse of the second largest neo-Nazi group in America. Furious anti-immigrant vigilante groups soared by nearly 80%, adding some 136 new groups during 2009. And, most remarkably of all, so-called "Patriot" groups — militias and other organizations that see the federal government as part of a plot to impose “one-world government” on liberty-loving Americans — came roaring back after years out of the limelight.

The anger seething across the American political landscape — over racial changes in the population, soaring public debt and the terrible economy, the bailouts of bankers and other elites, and an array of initiatives by the relatively liberal Obama Administration that are seen as "socialist" or even "fascist" — goes beyond the radical right. The "tea parties" and similar groups that have sprung up in recent months cannot fairly be considered extremist groups, but they are shot through with rich veins of radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism.

“We are in the midst of one of the most significant right-wing populist rebellions in United States history,” Chip Berlet, a veteran analyst of the American radical right, wrote earlier this year. "We see around us a series of overlapping social and political movements populated by people [who are] angry, resentful, and full of anxiety. They are raging against the machinery of the federal bureaucracy and liberal government programs and policies including health care, reform of immigration and labor laws, abortion, and gay marriage."

Sixty-one percent of Americans believe the country is in decline, according to a recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. Just a quarter think the government can be trusted. And the anti-tax tea party movement is viewed in much more positive terms than either the Democratic or Republican parties, the poll found.

The signs of growing radicalization are everywhere. Armed men have come to Obama speeches bearing signs suggesting that the "tree of liberty" needs to be "watered" with "the blood of tyrants." The Conservative Political Action Conference held this February was co-sponsored by groups like the John Birch Society, which believes President Eisenhower was a Communist agent, and Oath Keepers, a Patriot outfit formed last year that suggests, in thinly veiled language, that the government has secret plans to declare martial law and intern patriotic Americans in concentration camps. Politicians pandering to the antigovernment right in 37 states have introduced "Tenth Amendment Resolutions," based on the constitutional provision keeping all powers not explicitly given to the federal government with the states. And, at the "A Well Regulated Militia" website, a recent discussion of how to build "clandestine safe houses" to stay clear of the federal government included a conversation about how mass murderers like Timothy McVeigh and Olympics bomber Eric Rudolph were supposedly betrayed at such houses.

Doing the Numbers

The number of hate groups in America has been going up for years, rising 54% between 2000 and 2008 and driven largely by an angry backlash against non-white immigration and, starting in the last year of that period, the economic meltdown and the climb to power of an African American president.

According to the latest annual count by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), these groups rose again slightly in 2009 — from 926 in 2008 to 932 last year — despite the demise of a key neo-Nazi group. The American National Socialist Workers Party, which had 35 chapters in 28 states, imploded shortly after the October 2008 arrest of founder Bill White for making threats against his enemies.

At the same time, the number of what the SPLC designates as "nativist extremist" groups — organizations that go beyond mere advocacy of restrictive immigration policy to actually confront or harass suspected immigrants — jumped from 173 groups in 2008 to 309 last year. Virtually all of these vigilante groups have appeared since the spring of 2005.

But the most dramatic story by far has been with the antigovernment Patriots.
The militias and the larger Patriot movement first came to Americans’ attention in the mid-1990s, when they appeared as an angry reaction to what was seen as a tyrannical government bent on crushing all dissent. Sparked most dramatically by the death of 76 Branch Davidians during a 1993 law enforcement siege in Waco, Texas, those who joined the militias also railed against the Democratic Clinton Administration and initiatives like gun control and environmental regulation. Although the Patriot movement included people formerly associated with racially based hate groups, it was above all animated by a view of the federal government as the primary enemy, along with a fondness for antigovernment conspiracy theories. By early this decade, the groups had largely disappeared from public view.

But last year, as noted in the SPLC’s August report, "The Second Wave: Return of the Militias," a dramatic resurgence in the Patriot movement and its paramilitary wing, the militias, began. Now, the latest SPLC count finds that an astonishing 363 new Patriot groups appeared in 2009, with the totals going from 149 groups (including 42 militias) to 512 (127 of them militias) — a 244% jump.

That is cause for grave concern. Individuals associated with the Patriot movement during its 1990s heyday produced an enormous amount of violence, most dramatically the Oklahoma City bombing that left 168 people dead.

Already there are signs of similar violence emanating from the radical right. Since the installation of Barack Obama, right-wing extremists have murdered six law enforcement officers. Racist skinheads and others have been arrested in alleged plots to assassinate the nation’s first black president. One man from Brockton, Mass. — who told police he had learned on white supremacist websites that a genocide was under way against whites — is charged with murdering two black people and planning to kill as many Jews as possible on the day after Obama’s inauguration. Most recently, a rash of individuals with antigovernment, survivalist or racist views have been arrested in a series of bomb cases.

As the movement has exploded, so has the reach of its ideas, aided and abetted by commentators and politicians in the ostensible mainstream. While in the 1990s, the movement got good reviews from a few lawmakers and talk-radio hosts, some of its central ideas today are being plugged by people with far larger audiences like FOX News’ Glenn Beck and U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn). Beck, for instance, re-popularized a key Patriot conspiracy theory — the charge that FEMA is secretly running concentration camps — before finally “debunking” it.

Last year also experienced levels of cross-pollination between different sectors of the radical right not seen in years. Nativist activists increasingly adopted the ideas of the Patriots; racist rants against Obama and others coursed through the Patriot movement; and conspiracy theories involving the government appeared in all kinds of right-wing venues. A good example is the upcoming Second Amendment March in Washington, D.C. The website promoting the march is topped by a picture of a colonial militiaman, and key supporters include Larry Pratt, a long-time militia enthusiast with connections to white supremacists, and Richard Mack, a conspiracy-mongering former sheriff associated with the Patriot group Oath Keepers.

What may be most noteworthy about the march, however, is its date — April 19. That is the date of the first shots fired at Lexington in the Revolutionary War. And it is also the anniversary of the fiery end of the government siege in Waco and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #183 of 361
Thread Starter 
Frank make sure in addition to spamming the wrong thread that perhaps next time you raise the font size a bit that way when you post "objective" sources that are liberal and writing for Huff Po while soliciting millions for their endowment while doing nothing about the problem, it will really drive the point home.

SPLC = if you disagree with us, you are a hate group. It is the PUREST form of the intent game.

Where are the exploding numbers of ever increasing actual actions that would be deemed violent? They don't exist.

But there is something that is ever increasing, the SPLC assets.
Turns out the first number I cited was from 1996. Their endowment is now worth over $152 MILLION dollars as of 2005 reports.

CHA-CHING BABY, CHA-CHING.

Who knows... with this new report, they might even hit $250 million without spending those pennies to help people.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #184 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Ad hominem circumstantial


What's the matter Frank? Don't like your favorite form of reasoning used against you? I know I didn't fill it is with a bunch of crazy frases (for frank) like LOCKED AND LOADED but then you are the master of caricature. I am only the humble student.

I also levied legitimate criticism. They raise money off of labeling disagreement hate and don't spend it to help. Please feel free to address that if you dare.

I also noted they won't list as hate crimes actions involving certain races such as in Philidelphia where African-American mobs were beat 30 or more Asian students.

I guess there wasn't any money in that though.

BTW that even didn't actually happen because the SPLC said it didn't happen, or more specifically, they couldn't raise any money related to it or raise any money off the groups to whom the hate was happening so of course it didn't happen.

So we know you don't like your logical fallacy being applied against you, now address the reality, that you don't want to admit the SPLC is just a group that calls names to raise millions while ignoring and not attempting to address the issue of racism or racial problems.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #185 of 361
March 28, 2010
Op-Ed Columnist
The Rage Is Not About Health Care

By FRANK RICH

THERE were times when last Sundays great G.O.P. health care implosion threatened to bring the thrill back to reality television. On ABCs This Week, a frothing and filibustering Karl Rove all but lost it in a debate with the Obama strategist David Plouffe. A few hours later, the perennially copper-faced Republican leader John Boehner revved up his Hell no, you cant! incantation in the House chamber instant fodder for a new viral video remixing his rap with will.i.ams Yes, we can! classic from the campaign. Boehner, having previously likened the health care bill to Armageddon, was now so apoplectic you had to wonder if he had just discovered one of its more obscure revenue-generating provisions, a tax on indoor tanning salons.

But the laughs evaporated soon enough. Theres nothing entertaining about watching goons hurl venomous slurs at congressmen like the civil rights hero John Lewis and the openly gay Barney Frank. And as the week dragged on, and reports of death threats and vandalism stretched from Arizona to Kansas to upstate New York, the F.B.I. and the local police had to get into the act to protect members of Congress and their families.

How curious that a mob fond of likening President Obama to Hitler knows so little about history that it doesnt recognize its own small-scale mimicry of Kristallnacht. The weapon of choice for vigilante violence at Congressional offices has been a brick hurled through a window. So far.

No less curious is how disproportionate this red-hot anger is to its proximate cause. The historic Obama-Pelosi health care victory is a big deal, all right, so much so it doesnt need Joe Bidens adjective to hype it. But the bill does not erect a huge New Deal-Great Society-style government program. In lieu of a public option, it delivers 32 million newly insured Americans to private insurers. As no less a conservative authority than The Wall Street Journal editorial page observed last week, the bills prototype is the health care legislation Mitt Romney signed into law in Massachusetts. It contains what used to be considered Republican ideas.

Yet its this bill that inspired G.O.P. congressmen on the House floor to egg on disruptive protesters even as they were being evicted from the gallery by the Capitol Police last Sunday. Its this bill that prompted a congressman to shout baby killer at Bart Stupak, a staunch anti-abortion Democrat. Its this bill that drove a demonstrator to spit on Emanuel Cleaver, a black representative from Missouri. And its this middle-of-the-road bill, as Obama accurately calls it, that has incited an unglued firestorm of homicidal rhetoric, from Kill the bill! to Sarah Palins cry for her followers to reload. At least four of the House members hit with death threats or vandalism are among the 20 political targets Palin marks with rifle crosshairs on a map on her Facebook page.

When Social Security was passed by Congress in 1935 and Medicare in 1965, there was indeed heated opposition. As Dana Milbank wrote in The Washington Post, Alf Landon built his catastrophic 1936 presidential campaign on a call for repealing Social Security. (Democrats can only pray that the G.O.P. will go for it again in 2010, as Obama goaded them on Thursday, and keep demanding repeal of a bill that by September will shower benefits on the elderly and children alike.) When L.B.J. scored his Medicare coup, there were the inevitable cries of socialism along with ultimately empty rumblings of a boycott from the American Medical Association.

But there was nothing like this. To find a prototype for the overheated reaction to the health care bill, you have to look a year before Medicare, to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Both laws passed by similar majorities in Congress; the Civil Rights Act received even more votes in the Senate (73) than Medicare (70). But it was only the civil rights bill that made some Americans run off the rails. Thats because it was the one that signaled an inexorable and immutable change in the very identity of America, not just its governance.

The apocalyptic predictions then, like those about health care now, were all framed in constitutional pieties, of course. Barry Goldwater, running for president in 64, drew on the counsel of two young legal allies, William Rehnquist and Robert Bork, to characterize the bill as a threat to the very essence of our basic system and a usurpation of states rights that would force you to admit drunks, a known murderer or an insane person into your place of business. Richard Russell, the segregationist Democratic senator from Georgia, said the bill would destroy the free enterprise system. David Lawrence, a widely syndicated conservative columnist, bemoaned the establishment of a federal dictatorship. Meanwhile, three civil rights workers were murdered in Philadelphia, Miss.

That a tsunami of anger is gathering today is illogical, given that what the right calls Obamacare is less provocative than either the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or Medicare, an epic entitlement that actually did precipitate a government takeover of a sizable chunk of American health care. But the explanation is plain: the health care bill is not the main source of this anger and never has been. Its merely a handy excuse. The real source of the over-the-top rage of 2010 is the same kind of national existential reordering that roiled America in 1964.

In fact, the current surge of anger and the accompanying rise in right-wing extremism predates the entire health care debate. The first signs were the shrieks of traitor and off with his head at Palin rallies as Obamas election became more likely in October 2008. Those passions have spiraled ever since from Gov. Rick Perrys kowtowing to secessionists at a Tea Party rally in Texas to the gratuitous brandishing of assault weapons at Obama health care rallies last summer to You lie! piercing the presidents address to Congress last fall like an ominous shot.

If Obamas first legislative priority had been immigration or financial reform or climate change, we would have seen the same trajectory. The conjunction of a black president and a female speaker of the House topped off by a wise Latina on the Supreme Court and a powerful gay Congressional committee chairman would sow fears of disenfranchisement among a dwindling and threatened minority in the country no matter what policies were in play. Its not happenstance that Frank, Lewis and Cleaver none of them major Democratic players in the health care push received a major share of last weekends abuse. When you hear demonstrators chant the slogan Take our country back!, these are the people they want to take the country back from.

They cant. Demographics are avatars of a change bigger than any bill contemplated by Obama or Congress. The week before the health care vote, The Times reported that births to Asian, black and Hispanic women accounted for 48 percent of all births in America in the 12 months ending in July 2008. By 2012, the next presidential election year, non-Hispanic white births will be in the minority. The Tea Party movement is virtually all white. The Republicans havent had a single African-American in the Senate or the House since 2003 and have had only three in total since 1935. Their anxieties about a rapidly changing America are well-grounded.

If Congressional Republicans want to maintain a politburo-like homogeneity in opposition to the Democrats, thats their right. If they want to replay the petulant Gingrich government shutdown of 1995 by boycotting hearings and, as John McCain has vowed, refusing to cooperate on any legislation, thats their right too (and a political gift to the Democrats). But they cant emulate the 1995 G.O.P. by remaining silent as mass hysteria, some of it encompassing armed militias, runs amok in their own precincts. We know the end of that story. And they cant pretend that were talking about isolated incidents or a fringe utterly divorced from the G.O.P. A Quinnipiac poll last week found that 74 percent of Tea Party members identify themselves as Republicans or Republican-leaning independents, while only 16 percent are aligned with Democrats.

After the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, some responsible leaders in both parties spoke out to try to put a lid on the resistance and violence. The arch-segregationist Russell of Georgia, concerned about what might happen in his own backyard, declared flatly that the law is now on the books. Yet no Republican or conservative leader of stature has taken on Palin, Perry, Boehner or any of the others who have been stoking these fires for a good 17 months now. Last week McCain even endorsed Palins reload rhetoric.

Are these politicians so frightened of offending anyone in the Tea Party-Glenn Beck base that they would rather fall silent than call out its extremist elements and their enablers? Seemingly so, and if G.O.P. leaders of all stripes, from Romney to Mitch McConnell to Olympia Snowe to Lindsey Graham, are afraid of these forces, thats the strongest possible indicator that the rest of us have reason to fear them too.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #186 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Ad hominem circumstantial

Learn what that means. Try addressing the points. Do you deny that SPLC has been criticized by at least four different charity rating organizations for their lack of spending on their actual stated cause?

Do you deny that the SPLC does not call certain actions hate crimes based off no other criteria than race and that they thus are a racist organization themselves?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #187 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

March 28, 2010
Op-Ed Columnist
The Rage Is Not About Health Care

Your eyes are not seeing what they are seeing. Your ears are not hearing what they are hearing.

People protesting about the health care bill aren't actually protesting about the health care bill.

These are not the droids you are looking for.

That entire article is an ad-hom
but then what can you expect from someone citing a film critic.<--- Yes another example. Perhaps now you can learn what it really means and stop using it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #188 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Your eyes are not seeing what they are seeing. Your ears are not hearing what they are hearing.

People protesting about the health care bill aren't actually protesting about the health care bill.

These are not the droids you are looking for.

That entire article is an ad-hom
but then what can you expect from someone citing a film critic.

You just STARTED A THREAD to tell us that the rage is all simply a ploy to "change the subject" to distract from all the bad news.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1600392

You really did.

And in this post, you're arguing that there IS rage, and it's DEFINITELY to do with the health care bill.

Is there anything you won't say to "win"?
post #189 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You just STARTED A THREAD to tell us that the rage is all simply a ploy to "change the subject" to distract from all the bad news.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1600392

You really did.

And in this post, you're arguing that there IS rage, and it's DEFINITELY to do with the health care bill.

Is there anything you won't say to "win"?

I think it's important to note here that this is exactly what I've been talking about. It's not just trumpy but almost everyone from the right who could be considered extreme. They're on the defensive now and will say anything. It's just more PPD. Winning is much more important than the actual issues, the truth, or the people they represent. Sad really.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #190 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You just STARTED A THREAD to tell us that the rage is all simply a ploy to "change the subject" to distract from all the bad news.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1600392

You really did.

And in this post, you're arguing that there IS rage, and it's DEFINITELY to do with the health care bill.

Is there anything you won't say to "win"?

As others have noted, between the caricatures, strawmen, complaints about style and tone, there is a failure to comprehend what is actually written. As is par for the course an accusation follows based of that very lack of comprehension.

It's why there is an ignore function.

Now as is usual, another post addressing the thread topic instead of distracting from it.

Look at this video to see who is violent and who isn't.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #191 of 361
Thread Starter 
The board doesn't support the spoiler tag as far as I know so be warned, this stuff is seriously offensive to many. Of course no conclusions of pattern have been drawn from these 15 very bad quotes and yes, they have all occurred since 2000 in fact many are much more recent. There was no shift in violence. It has always been there for the left.


Quote:
"A spoiled child (Bush) is telling us our Social Security isn't safe anymore, so he is going to fix it for us. Well, here's your answer, you ungrateful whelp: [audio sound of 4 gunshots being fired.] Just try it, you little b*stard. [audio of gun being cocked]." -- A "humor bit" from the Randi Rhodes Show

"I want to go up to the closest white person and say: 'You can't understand this, it's a black thing' and then slap him, just for my mental health" -- New York city councilman Charles Barron

"..And then there's Rumsfeld who said of Iraq 'We have our good days and our bad days.' We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say 'This is one of our bad days' and pull the trigger." -- From a fundraising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club

"I believe in ecoterrorism." -- James Cameron

"...In an ideal world, American consumers could be convinced to do the right thing through an appeal to logic with public service messages like the 'What Would Jesus Drive?' TV campaign, but the kind of people who would buy a car that increases the risk to other motorists in an accident can't be reasoned with. They're selfish and stupid. It's unfortunate that drivers must worry that their SUVs are being targeted by insulting stickers and Molotov cocktails, but one thing's for sure: It couldn't be happening to a more deserving group of people." -- Ted Rall winks at ecoterrorism

"F*** God D*mned Joe the God D*mned Motherf*cking plumber! I want Motherf*cking Joe the plumber dead." -- Liberal talk show host Charles Karel Bouley on the air.

"Republicans don't believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don't give a hoot about human beings, either can't or won't. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm." -- The Village Voice's Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places

(Rush Limbaugh)" just wants the country to fail. To me that's treason. He's not saying anything different than what Osama Bin Laden is saying. You might want to look into this, sir, because I think Rush Limbaugh was the 20th hijacker but he was just so strung out on Oxycontin he missed his flight. ... Rush Limbaugh, I hope the country fails, I hope his kidneys fail, how about that?" -- Wanda Sykes

"You guys see Live and Let Die, the great Bond film with Yaphet Kotto as the bad guy, Mr. Big? In the end they jam a big CO2 pellet in his face and he blew up. I have to tell you, Rush Limbaugh is looking more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebodys going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and hes going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet. But well be there to watch. I think hes Mr. Big, I think Yaphet Kotto. Are you watching, Rush?" -- Chris Matthews

"I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn't be dying needlessly tomorrow....I'm just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That's a fact." -- Bill Maher

(HEY BILL, HOW'S THAT PEACE PRESIDENT DOING AT STOPPING THE DEATH BY DOUBLING DOWN IN AFGHANISTAN?)

"If I got (Condi Rice) a on camera, I would put my Mars Air Jordans so far up her butt that the Mayo Clinic would have to remove them." -- Spike Lee

"O&A - 'Condoleezza Rice'"

Charlie - "I'd love to f--- that b*tch dude" (laughter)

Charlie - "She's the F---in man"

O&A - "yeah"

Charlie - "I'd F...that b*tch...."

O&A - "I just imagine the horror in Condoleezza Rice's face...."

- "(laughter) ..... as she realizes what's going on"

- "...as you were just holding her down and F'n her."

Charlie - "punch her all the F'n face, shut the F--- up b*tch"

O&A - "that's exactly what I meant" (laughter in background)

Charlie - "you know F--- it .... and George Bush wife? I'd F--- that b*tch to death" -- "Shock Jocks" Opie & Anthony talk rape & violence with their guest "Homeless Charlie."

"For those of you who do, as a matter of principle, oppose war in any form, the idea of supporting a conscientious objector who's already been inducted [and] in his combat service in Iraq might have a certain appeal. But let me ask you this: Would you render the same support to someone who hadn't conscientiously objected, but rather instead rolled a grenade under their line officer in order to neutralize the combat capacity of their unit?" -- University Professor Ward Churhill on supporting soldiers who frag their officers

"Drudge? Aw, Drudge, somebody ought to wrap a strong Republican entrail around his neck and hoist him up about six feet in the air and watch him bounce." -- Liberal radio host, Mike Malloy

"I know how the 'tea party' people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their 'Obama Plan White Slavery' signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads." -- The Washington Post's Courtland Milloy

Rape, murder, lynching people. It's just the Democratic way of doing things.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #192 of 361
Thread Starter 
Carol Swain in a two part video discussing the SPLC and their vicious smear tactics, dishonesty, and hypocrisy.

Part 1

Part 2

Key quote: "The SPLC is one of the most intolerant organizations out there."

It is clear to anyone with an open mind that the SPLC is an organization that might have once done some good but now mostly trade their reputation for ever larger amounts of money in the bank and the occasional partisan smear.

Note that by definition being a patriot makes you a racist according to the SPLC. It is clear that the SPLC has jumped the shark when you look at the list of grops by ideology. Several labels are there that make total sense like KKK, Black nationalist or neo-nazi. However the most recent called anti-immigrant makes no sense as illegal immigration does not have to do with race. Likewise the Jewish Defense League and the various state parties of the Constitution Party as hate organizations.

Lying about hate is hate and that means the the SPLC is practicing the very racism and hatefulness they claim to fight. Their use of smears is an injustice which means they are not and organization fighting for justice. They are discredited.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #193 of 361
I'm wondering if anyone has noticed we went throught the same sort of thing ( in lesser form ) from the right wing people here right before the the last election? Ending of course in a defeat for the republicans.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #194 of 361
"Know this if nothing else: This was a hate crime. I hate the damn left-wing liberals. There is a vast left-wing conspiracy in this country & these liberals are working together to attack every decent & honorable institution in the nation, trying to turn this country into a communist state. Shame on them....

"This was a symbolic killing. Who I wanted to kill was every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg's book. I'd like to kill everyone in the mainstream media. But I know those people were inaccessible to me. I couldn't get to the generals & high ranking officers of the Marxist movement so I went after the foot soldiers, the chickenshit liberals that vote in these traitorous people. Someone had to get the ball rolling. I volunteered. I hope others do the same. It's the only way we can rid America of this cancerous pestilence."

"I thought I'd do something good for this Country Kill Democrats til the cops kill me....Liberals are a pest like termites. Millions of them Each little bite contributes to the downfall of this great nation. The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is to kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather. I'd like to encourage other like minded people to do what I've done. If life aint worth living anymore don't just kill yourself. do something for your Country before you go. Go Kill Liberals.

Video- http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2008/07...d-martyrs.html
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #195 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"Know this if nothing else: This was a hate crime. I hate the damn left-wing liberals. There is a vast left-wing conspiracy in this country & these liberals are working together to attack every decent & honorable institution in the nation, trying to turn this country into a communist state. Shame on them....<snip>]

And? A disturbed individual to be sure, but what does it prove overall?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #196 of 361
Active 'Patriot' Groups in the United States in 2009

The Intelligence Project identified 512 "Patriot" groups that were active in 2009. Of these groups, 127 were militias, marked with an asterisk, and the remainder includes "common-law" courts, publishers, ministries and citizens' groups. Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the "New World Order," engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. The list was compiled from field reports, Patriot publications, the Internet, law enforcement sources and news reports. Groups are identified by the city, county or region where they are located.

ALABAMA (7)

2nd Alabama Militia *
Mobile
Alabama Shoals Badgers *
Tuscumbia

ALASKA (5)

Alaska Citizens Militia *
Nikiski

ARIZONA (10)

Arizona Citizens Militia *
Douglas
Arizona Militia *
Glendale
Cochise County Militia *
Tombstone
Northern Arizona Militia *
Flagstaff

ARKANSAS (6)

Militia of Washington County *
Fayetteville

CALIFORNIA (22)

American Armenian Militia *
Los Angeles/San Fernando Valley Area
Northern California State Militia *
Falcon Creek
Sunnyvale
State of California Unorganized Militia *
Monrovia

COLORADO (10)

Minutemen Militia *
Fort Collins

FLORIDA (11)

Florida Free Alliance *
Nokomis
Florida Free Militia *
Palm Coast

GEORGIA (15)

Georgia Militia *
Chatham County
Cobb County
Gwinnett County
Newton County
Militia of Georgia *
Lawrenceville
Militia Recruiting Command *
Columbus

IDAHO (11)

Idaho Citizens Constitutional Militia *
Statewide
North Idaho Light Foot Militia*
Bonner County
Boundary County
Kootenai County

ILLINOIS (10)

135th Illinois Volunteer Cavalry *
Statewide
Illinois State Militia (Unorganized) 167th Battalion, 21st FF *
Statewide

INDIANA (21)

Indiana Citizens Volunteer Militia, 3rd Brigade *
Tippecanoe County
Indiana Constitutional Militia *
Statewide
Indiana Militia Corps *
Ingalls
Northeast
Northwest
Pendleton
Southeast
Southwest
Indiana Sedentary Militia *
Hendricks County
Southern
Southwest
Statewide
Western
Indiana's Greene County Militia *
Greene County
Indiana State Militia 14th Regiment *
Owen County

KANSAS (7)

Kansas State Militia *
Wichita

KENTUCKY (13)

1st Joint Public Militia *
Bowling Green
Jefferson County
Louisville
Marshall County
Northern
Statewide
Kentucky State Militia - Ohio Valley Command *
Louisville

LOUISANA (10)

Louisiana Militia *
Statewide
Louisiana Unorganized Militia *
Abbeville

MAINE (7)

Maine Constitutional Militia *
Statewide

MARYLAND (8)

Southern Sons of Liberty *
Statewide

MICHIGAN (47)

Delta 5 Mobile Light Infantry Militia *
Eaton County
East-Central Volunteer Militia of Michigan *
Lapeer County
Hutaree Militia *
Southern
Jackson County Volunteers *
Jackson County
Lenawee County Free and Independent Militia *
Adrian
Michigan Militia *
Redford
Michigan Militia Corps Wolverines 8th Division *
South Central
Michigan Patriot Alliance *
Arenac County
Bay County
Cheboygan County
Clinton County
Crawford County
Genesee County
Gladwin County
Gratiot County
Jackson County
Lapeer County
Macomb County
Midland County
Oakland County
Oceana County
Presque Isle County
Saginaw County
St. Clair County
Sanilac County
Shiawassee County
Tuscola County
Northern Michigan Backyard Protection Militia *
Northern
Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia *
Livingston County
Macomb County
Oakland County
Washtenaw County
Wayne County
West Michigan Volunteer Militia *
Muskegon County

MINNESOTA (8)

Minnesota Militia/Army of Mississippi *
St. Cloud

MISSISSIPPI (6)

Constitution Defense Militia of Attala County (CDMAC) *
Attala County
East Central Mississippi Militia *
East Central

MISSOURI (9)

Missouri Militia *
Kansas CitySt. Louis

MONTANA (9)

Militia of Montana *
Noxon

NEW HAMPSHIRE (6)

New Hampshire Patriot Militia *
Statewide
United States Constitution Rangers *
West Lebanon

NEW JERSEY (8)

New Jersey Militia *
Trenton
Wolfpack Militia *
Statewide

NEW YORK (17)

Empire State Militia 11th Field Force *
Northwestern
Oneida Area
Staten Island
Ulster County
Westchester Area

NORTH CAROLINA (10)

North Carolina Citizens Militia *
Charlotte
Coastal Area
Sandhills Area
Waynesville

OHIO (13)

Constitutional Militia of Clark County *
Clark County
Northeastern Ohio Defense Force 3BN *
Lisbon
Northwestern Ohio Defense Force 4BN *
Kenton
Ohio Defense Force State Headquarters *
Zanesville
Ohio Militia *
Statewide
Southeastern Ohio Defense Force 3rd Platoon *
Belmont County
Southwestern Ohio Defense Force 5BN *
Lebanon
Unorganized Militia of Champaign County *
St. Paris

OREGON (14)

Oregon Militia Corps *
Statewide
Southern Oregon Militia *
Eagle Point

PENNSYLVANIA (9)

Keystone Freedom Fighters *
Gettysburg

TENNESSEE (12)

East Tennessee Militia *
East

TEXAS (52)

American Patriots for Freedom Foundation *
Spring
Central Texas Militia *
Central
Texas Well Regulated Militia *
Edwards County

UTAH (10)

Hutaree Militia *
Statewide

VIRGINIA (7)

Virginia Citizens Militia *
Roanoke

WASHINGTON (11)

Grays Harbor Civilian Defense Force *
Grays Harbor
Kitsap County WA Militia *
Kitsap County
Washington State Militia *
Statewide
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #197 of 361
Posted Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:31 PM

Left Wing: The Hutaree Militia and Why Today’s Wingnuts Are Right Wing

Eve Conant

This Week in Progressive Media

Who is more of a threat, left-wing crazies or right-wing crazies?

For its coverage of the Hutaree Militia story, Firedoglake.com carries Rachel Maddow’s extensive reporting of the FBI infiltration and capture of the members of the violent Christian militia group. Maddow tries to gauge the seriousness of their threat, describing the oddly named militia as a “strange combination of absurd and scary” with names “out of a Calvin and Hobbes strip” but spends 10 minutes exploring who they are and the charges against them. Are they representative of other right-wing groups? A guest on her show, reporter Ed Brayton of the Michigan Messenger Web site, describes them as very dangerous but also so fringe that they constitute “the wingnut’s wingnuts.”

The question of who is worse, right-wing or left-wing radicals, and how to label radicals cropped up again most recently when pundits raced to describe recent Pentagon shooter John Patrick Bedell as right wing and conservatives lashed back that he was left wing. In a Washington Post op-ed, Eugene Robinson argues that for the past few decades the most serious threat of domestic terrorism has come from those who draw inspiration and rhetoric from the far right.

“It is disingenuous for mainstream purveyors of incendiary far-right rhetoric to dismiss groups such as the Hutaree by saying that there are ‘crazies on both sides.’ This simply is not true. There was a time when the far left was a spawning ground for political violence. The first big story I covered was the San Francisco trial of heiress Patricia Hearst, who had been kidnapped and eventually co-opted by the Symbionese Liberation Army—a far-left group whose philosophy was as apocalyptic and incoherent as that of the Hutaree. There are aging radicals in Cuba today who got to Havana by hijacking airplanes in the 1970s. Left-wing radicals caused mayhem and took innocent lives. But for the most part, far-left violence in this country has gone the way of the leisure suit and the AMC Gremlin. An antiglobalization movement, including a few window-smashing anarchists, was gaining traction at one point, but it quickly diminished after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. An environmental group and an animal-rights group have been linked with incidents of arson. Beyond those particulars, it is

hard to identify any kind of leftist threat.”
The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups and militia groups, wrote in a recent report that "an astonishing 363 new Patriot groups appeared in 2009, with the totals going from 149 groups (including 42 militias) to 512 (127 of them militias)—a 244% jump." Whether they are right wing or left wing will continue to be debated, but Robinson argues that such a debate is a nonstarter.

It is dishonest for right-wing commentators to insist on an equivalence that does not exist,” writes Robinson. “The danger of political violence in this country comes overwhelmingly from one direction—the right, not the left. The vitriolic, antigovernment hate speech that is spewed on talk radio every day—and, quite regularly, at tea-party rallies—is calibrated not to inform but to incite. “
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #198 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

And? A disturbed individual to be sure, but what does it prove overall?

That right wing violence is all too real and the exaggerated rhetoric from the right is making matters much worse.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #199 of 361
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That right wing violence is all too real and the exaggerated rhetoric from the right is making matters much worse.

Care to prove this contention?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #200 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Care to prove this contention?

See thread above.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
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